CPL General

[Rheo]

I would say hardly anything is "clear" from this but speculate away.  I do though strongly disagree with all of your theories 

[Gopherbashi]

12 minutes ago, Kent said:

And of course they are ahead of us in player development. I couldn't even cherry pick a metric where we would be ahead of them.

Oh come on, that's easy.

- 6th place finishes in the Hex.
- D3 leagues.
- Illegal semi-pro betting leagues.
- [Head coach yelling] tweets.

[Gopherbashi]

23 minutes ago, Kent said:

And of course they are ahead of us in player development. I couldn't even cherry pick a metric where we would be ahead of them.

Actually, believe it or not, pro teams per capita.

[Gopherbashi]

4 minutes ago, Rheo said:

I would say hardly anything is "clear" from this but speculate away.  I do though strongly disagree with all of your theories 

Oh sorry, I need to start doing a better job on my impressions.

[Rheo]

No apologies needed but if you think that Fath believes MLS is passing up on the numerous American markets that want teams to go to Edmonton because of the Canadian office go ahead. Speculate away but no where in the quoted tweets are MLS mentioned. Your jump in logic that you proclaim as clear is anything but that in my opinion. Agree to disagree. Now I'm going back to watching the baseball. Cheers

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

No apologies needed but if you think that Fath believes MLS is passing up on the numerous American markets that want teams to go to Edmonton because of the Canadian office go ahead. Speculate away but no where in the quoted tweets are MLS mentioned. Your jump in logic that you proclaim as clear is anything but that in my opinion. Agree to disagree. Now I'm going back to watching the baseball. Cheers

I don't, that's the whole, oh never mind.

Maybe I'll just need to add some explicit impression or sarcasm tags onto it next time.

Edited October 22, 2017 by Gopherbashi

[BuzzAndSting]

4 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

It's very telling how he specifically doesn't rule out a move to MLS.  It's become clear with the opening of an MLS office in Canada that this "C-SUM" is actually an extension of MLS' efforts to capitalize on the success of SUM north of the border instead of anything run by the CSA, whose attempts at starting this Canadian Premier League have been lacklustre at best (when Victor Montagliani couldn't confirm the league's name in that one interview) and based on a petty strain of nationalism which is also pervasive on these forums.  Coupled with Paul Beirne's recent statement of expanding the league to "population centres over 200,000" which Edmonton is well above and it becomes clear that Edmonton will be looking for a higher calibre league so they don't have to compete with towns like Kamloops in a MLS development league thanks to the shutdown of the Vancouver academy team.

Ummmm. What?! Are you claiming CPL is too small time for FCE and their aiming for MLS?!

Edit: Don't assume anyone knows you're being sarcastic 

Edited October 22, 2017 by BuzzAndSting

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Gopherbashi's apparent angst over what is happening at the moment is understandable enough given the general level of hysteria on here back in May when most seemed to assume that a 2018 launch announcement was just around the corner and that many more new CanPL franchises would be formally announced by the end of the summer after the 90 days (?) that would be taken to assess the applications that had been received. That looked farfetched to me at the time and it always looked to me like FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury would be needed for anything to happen on that timeline if TFC II and Whitecaps FC 2 were going to be actively excluded and so it has proved.

The Faths aren't wealthy enough for MLS to be an option for them. The only Edmonton MLS speculation I've heard anywhere this year is Duane Rollins speculating on an FCE fan podcast that the Katz group found MLS more interesting than a domestic Canadian league, but that's clearly a non-starter given some of the markets that are interested south of the border. Peter Wilt's whatahowler.com article earlier this year highlighted that Edmonton is actually one of the smallest markets in North America to have a fully pro soccer team at the moment and hence is unlikely to be taken seriously as an option by MLS when the likes of Miami, Detroit and St Louis still don't have teams. 

If Steve Sandor's tweet implies anything, it is that the Faths are keeping their options open and the NASL (and the class B shares they hold in that league) might still be their preferred option moving forward if they get the injunction they are seeking and their D2 status is secured and the league stabilizes again. Time will tell.

Edited October 22, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Complete Homer]

6 hours ago, BuzzAndSting said:

Edit: Don't assume anyone knows you're being sarcastic 

2 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Gopherbashi's apparent angst over what is happening at the moment is understandable enough given the general level of hysteria on here back in May when most seemed to assume that a 2018 launch announcement was just around the corner and that many more new CanPL franchises would be formally announced by the end of the summer after the 90 days (?) that would be taken to assess the applications that had been received. That looked farfetched to me at the time and it always looked to me like FC Edmonton and the Ottawa Fury would be needed for anything to happen on that timeline if TFC II and Whitecaps FC 2 were going to be actively excluded and so it has proved.

The Faths aren't wealthy enough for MLS to be an option for them. The only Edmonton MLS speculation I've heard anywhere this year is Duane Rollins speculating on an FCE fan podcast that the Katz group found MLS more interesting than a domestic Canadian league, but that's clearly a non-starter given some of the markets that are interested south of the border. Peter Wilt's whatahowler.com article earlier this year highlighted that Edmonton is actually one of the smallest markets in North America to have a fully pro soccer team at the moment and hence is unlikely to be taken seriously as an option by MLS when the likes of Miami, Detroit and St Louis still don't have teams. 

If Steve Sandor's tweet implies anything, it is that the Faths are keeping their options open and the NASL (and the class B shares they hold in that league) might still be their preferred option moving forward if they get the injunction they are seeking and their D2 status is secured and the league stabilizes again. Time will tell.

...heh

[dyslexic nam]

Yeah, sarcasm in text is easy to miss.

To clarify:

- he is being sarcastic in that iconic post

- he is doing so by satirizing the posts/comments of BBTB who at some point has made some paraphrase of all those points.

- the fact that BBTB uses the post to advance his own arguments is equal parts funny and ironic.

 

I think we have all learned some important lessons here today.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Never easy to admit you were wrong about something. If some of you guys were paying more attention to what is happening at the moment then this part of Steven Sandor's article would probably be the main focus of this thread right now:

https://the11.ca/fc-edmontons-home-finale-features-a-loss-on-the-field-and-uncertainty-off-of-it/

Finally, we asked the toughest question of all. Could this game with Miami be FC Edmonton’s final home game, period? Fath said he couldn’t comment on that.

 That's a little bit ominous, because there's no obvious reason for him not to deny that or say that's exceedingly unlikely, if all is going well with CanPL at the meetings he is attending from his perspective and he is still completely gung ho about continuing with FC Edmonton. One thing Canadian pro soccer cannot afford right now if good things are going to happen over the next decade or so, is to lose investors like the Fath brothers who have shown a willingness to lose into seven figures every season and to hang in there as interest in their franchise slowly builds. The San Francisco Deltas scenario of one and done when things don't work out as originally planned is all too common from investor groups at this sort of level of soccer in North America regardless of what gets said in the build up to franchise launch.

Edited October 22, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Complete Homer]

15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Never easy to admit you were wrong about something.

Clearly.

[dyslexic nam]

Not sure what is supposed to be revelatory there.

FCEd and the Faths have been utterly non-committal about everything.  Continued presence in NASL, willingness to move to CPL, continuation of FCEd...  As far as I can tell, most of there recent comments have been devoid of any indication - positive or negative - about their direction.  Sure it would be nice to see them cheerlead for CPL, but this kind of comment isn't atypical or indicative of anything IMO.  

And in the end, much like with the Fury,  I fall back to the common sense idea that CPL will offer FCEd a solid opportunity with ultimately more growth potential than continued participation in a second tier US league.   That may not be enough in the end to sustain yet another push into a new venture, but it isn't like they would be starting from scratch.  They would have to tailor the wage bill and administrative costs to match the projected revenue, but it would likely be an easy sell to existing fans to go see a game against a Canadian team versus a game against some obscure US team.  I wouldn't anticipate any drop in interest or inertia.  And ultimately I would think the cieling is much, much higher.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

40 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said:

...FCEd and the Faths have been utterly non-committal about everything...

Really? They have kept a D2 level soccer franchise operating continuously since 2011 with an 8000 break even point. That took plenty of commitment. It would be better for the future of Canadian soccer if folding outright was off the table along with USL participation.

[dyslexic nam]

I don't mean no commitment generally - I just meant in response to all questions that have been put to them on any future plans lately.  I thought that would be clear.  With CPL rumblings and NASL either circling the bowl or on the edge of rejuvenation (depending on who you ask) I just meant that they are keeping their cards extremely close to their chest right now.  

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

You can't really blame Fath for being non-committal.  He's a businessman and he's trying to do what's best for his business.  It's CPL's job to woo him.  Beirne will understand this, and isn't taking it personally, I can pretty much assure you.

If Beirne was taking it personally I would have much bigger concerns than FCEd.  But so far he's been an ace pretty much everywhere he's been, so I'm not overly concerned(Brighton&Hove Albion, anyone?)

we just have to be patient and get on with our lives and things will happen when they should happen.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

https://the11.ca/fc-edmontons-home-finale-features-a-loss-on-the-field-and-uncertainty-off-of-it/

“What I can say for sure is that we won’t be in USL,” he said with a smile. “And I don’t think we’ll be in MLS.”

He shot down USL as a possibility, so he clearly hasn't been non-committal about everything. Normally the last thing a sports team owner will ever say in an interview after a season ends unless it is time to actually officially announce they are closing up shop is that the team may not be playing any more games. Adding an element of doubt on that can complicate selling season tickets, signing players, attracting sponsors and getting suppliers to provide items on credit. Certain people on twitter that know how to gain a lot of attention have been acting like FCE to CanPL is an inevitability. This appears to be Tom Fath's response to that and his way of saying that isn't the case and he has done it quite forcefully by not immediately shutting down the question of whether the franchise is folding. Hopefully that last bit was just a case of irritation with the interviewer and refusing to answer what he viewed as an impertinent question.

Edited October 22, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Rocket Robin]

From my post in the 'Canadian teams and leagues' sub-forum

USL Ottawa Fury coach Julian de Guzman was the celebrity brought in for the coin toss. 
I hadn't thought of it at game time but there is a good chance that tonight's winner
will play Ottawa in the opening round of the Canadian Championship next year.  
Oakville and their PLSQ champion counterpart AS Blainville will NOT face each other
in the first round but one will face Ottawa and the other will face FC Edmonton
of NASL.  The winners will then play each other and the next round the winner
of that will join the MLS teams in the semi-finals. 

The start of the Canadian Championship will be held in May from what I've heard which
shouldn't cause a problem as the L1O season will be into its first month by then. 
Since these games are usually played in midweek it will mean Oakville won't play
at their usual home Sheridan College because there are no stadium lights.  Rumour
has it they will be trying to arrange to play at Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton.  
Will there be a sponsor or will they have to raise funds to fly to Edmonton if that's
the team they draw?  A joke going around after the game was 'how about a car wash?'.   

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Can this be used as a test for stadium packing in Hamilton?  Everybody wants to see a Canadian Championship game but doesn't want to wait for the Hamilton franchise to start playing?     

[Rheo]

On 10/21/2017 at 10:15 PM, Gopherbashi said:

Oh sorry, I need to start doing a better job on my impressions.

It is quite clear that I was half asleep on Saturday night and quite slower than normal, ugh

[Rheo]

20 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

Clearly.

Clearly he's admitting he was wrong when he kept saying that the league would never happen and then never happen without MLS help.  This is a big first step

Also I'm teasing so no need for a big long post refuting the above line

Edited October 23, 2017 by Rheo

[toontownman]

50 minutes ago, Rheo said:

Clearly he's admitting he was wrong when he kept saying that the league would never happen and then never happen without MLS help.  This is a big first step

Also I'm teasing so no need for a big long post refuting the above line

Technically he is not wrong yet

[ironcub14]

On 10/21/2017 at 9:56 PM, Gopherbashi said:

It's very telling how he specifically doesn't rule out a move to MLS.  It's become clear with the opening of an MLS office in Canada that this "C-SUM" is actually an extension of MLS' efforts to capitalize on the success of SUM north of the border instead of anything run by the CSA, whose attempts at starting this Canadian Premier League have been lacklustre at best (when Victor Montagliani couldn't confirm the league's name in that one interview) and based on a petty strain of nationalism which is also pervasive on these forums.  Coupled with Paul Beirne's recent statement of expanding the league to "population centres over 200,000" which Edmonton is well above and it becomes clear that Edmonton will be looking for a higher calibre league so they don't have to compete with towns like Kamloops in a MLS development league thanks to the shutdown of the Vancouver academy team.

This was meta to the max; I was reading this post and halfway in, I was like, "the dude Gopherbashi of all people, goddamn"

I'm writing you a recommendation to the Nutmeg News if you ever need.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

My guess on how they could have launched in 2018 over the last few weeks has been Hamilton, Winnipeg, FCE, Ottawa Fury, Halifax and Toronto, but now I suspect Fraser Valley probably would have been #6 with Swangard as their interim solution, so I don't doubt PB was being sincere in Regina about a soft launch being closer to happening than many people realized, if all those groups had been willing/able to proceed. They probably wouldn't have ramped up the Toronto office operation otherwise. My guess would be that in the absence of MLS B teams even 2019 could easily still hinge to a significant extent on what FCE and the Fury decide is in their best interests towards the end of next summer as getting stadia deals agreed and then built in the six builder markets takes time as there is usually some level of less than fully rational NIMBY opposition to navigate first. That could give Tom Fath plenty of leverage to get the league configured in the sort of way he prefers, which probably means fewer pinko commie single entity type notions that there might have been floating around and more of a standalone clubs allowed to operate as they see fit ethos before he starts giving Steve Sandor the sort of answers that Steve Sandor was probably hoping for.

[Unnamed Trialist]

Actually BBTB posts are the only thing that makes we want to come back and read this circle jerk every few weeks or so. 

Because they are the exception, but I suppose that's obvious...

Oh, and I am 100% in favour of a Canadian league. But if it could be done without Canadian owners and politicians and press and even Canadian land under stadiums, it would probably have a better chance of getting off the ground.

Edit: and puke-worthy CPL logo threads, the horror.

Edited October 23, 2017 by Unnamed Trialist

[-Hammer-]

I for one would love to see the Canadian Championship game at Tim Hortons' Field and hope it goes forward. That said, I wouldn't expect a large crowd for Oakville vs the Fury unless a large contingent of Oakville fans and L1O enthusiasts make it out. I know I'd be down and I'm sure other members of the Battalion would be.