CPL General

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Somebody credible obviously expressed an interest in each case, but if PB is saying ten "expression of interests" rather than ten "investors" that particular wording is probably being used for a reason and the most likely explanation is that people can express a possible interest without being fully sold on the idea yet or being completely ready to implement it. Not quite sure why that distinction being made caused the reactions that it did given nobody is questioning the ten being on a path to readiness part, which is a very good sign for it actually happening some time before 2020.

Edited September 3, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Complete Homer]

...I'm not engaged in some personal petty feud, I'm trying to make sure the most accurate statements are known instead of trying to find every opportunity to drag the discussion into the mud.

The discussion didn't have a resolution, it ended with one of the best contributors to the discussion deciding to leave the forum all together, and I just noticed a paragraph that might help set the record straight. Sorry for having the gall to contribute, starting to think I should follow Rob's cue

Edited September 3, 2017 by Complete Homer

[Gordon]

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

...I'm not engaged in some personal petty feud, I'm trying to make sure the most accurate statements are known instead of trying to find every opportunity to drag the discussion into the mud.

The discussion didn't have a resolution, it ended with one of the best contributors to the discussion deciding to leave the forum all together, and I just noticed a paragraph that might help set the record straight. Sorry for having the gall to contribute, starting to think I follow Rob's cue

Lol, it's never worth the effort.

In any event, most folks with an interest are putting their efforts into getting supporters groups going.  At this point, it's up to CanPL to start making announcements. 

[matty]

I'm sick of how many teams/groups talk. We know there are 10 looking to get in so let's leave that there.

What I wanna know is what the TV story is gonna be cause after all IN MODERN SPORTS TO MAKE MONEY YOU NEED TO BE ON TV. This should be the next mystery that we try to dig up shit on cause that's seriously gonna be this league's life line (as expansion seems limited and high expansion fees seem unlikely)

Edited September 4, 2017 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Ditto on the first bit until we get more information on what a "path to readiness" means as wordings like that appear to be a significant caveat. It's a positive that they have that many strong possibilities at this stage that PB is confident will get there eventually, so that alone should be enough to get people to be upbeat and positive, in my opinion.

On the second bit my understanding based on what has been said by PB on podcasts is that a national TV deal is not part of their business plan although they are open to having one if there is interest, but they do want to have a strong digital presence in terms of webstreams etc with comments being made about the landscape of sports broadcasting changing rapidly in this regard over the last few years.

I think they expect to be mainly gate driven like junior hockey and want to keep their break even low enough to make it work in markets as small as 200,000 like Kelowna w/ Penticton, so that expansion well beyond 10 is easily doable as that is the key to long term stability and sustainability. If 4500-5500 is an aspiration rather than an expectation I think they are on the right track with how to find a niche alongside MLS.

Edited September 4, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Rheo]

17 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

I'm pretty sure that unless there's video proof of him saying this, and that his words are officially noted in a Parliamentary record countersigned by the Queen herself, that some here will not accept these words as legitimate.

Sorry to use a wrestling term but that made me pop lol.  Well played

[matty]

17 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Ditto on the first bit until we get more information on what a "path to readiness" means as wordings like that appear to be a significant caveat. It's a positive that they have that many strong possibilities at this stage that PB is confident will get there eventually, so that alone should be enough to get people to be upbeat and positive, in my opinion.

On the second bit my understanding based on what has been said by PB on podcasts is that a national TV deal is not part of their business plan although they are open to having one if there is interest, but they do want to have a strong digital presence in terms of webstreams etc with comments being made about the landscape of sports broadcasting changing rapidly in this regard over the last few years.

I think they expect to be mainly gate driven like junior hockey and want to keep their break even low enough to make it work in markets as small as 200,000 like Kelowna w/ Penticton, so that expansion well beyond 10 is easily doable as that is the key to long term stability and sustainability. If 4500-5500 is an aspiration rather than an expectation I think they are on the right track with how to find a niche alongside MLS.

Alright so @BringBackTheBlizzard 

I think it's time for our CPL detectives to investigate what's happening on the TV front because simply put despite PB saying the business plan does not include TV, I highly doubt they are not actively searching for a TV deal because you simply cannot make money in sports in the modern age without it. Hunting down what they're up to on that front will tell us what to expect

Gate driven leagues rarely make the money needed to justify existing. Often those that are pay very little to talent. Those that use streaming and partial TV like NLL often pay a little more but still under a living wage. They are also conservative with actions. While you mention junior hockey it's important to remember they are not being paid and travel isn't always involving planes (which will often be the case with CPL).

In order to justify rumoured budgets (1.5m cap, office stuff, construction) you're looking at a few million (let's say 3m a year). Can you do that with a gate of 5000? I don't know. MLS teams average a little under 22,000 and they lose money every fucking year (and they have TV). What we know about Halifax is tickets will not break the bank. Let's do some math: say a ticket is $30 times 5000 is 150,000 times 15 is 2,250,000. If you giving this away on streams and dependant on gate you might break 3m after a kit sponsor, concessions and merch sales but again this is dependant on 5000 tickets being sold.

There are two ways to make money now in sports: TV or expansion fees. TV (despite the cordcutting, which is being countered very successfully by cable companies) is the easier and safer method while expansion fees need TV audiences to eventually come, which is what MLS is banking on it seems as their TV rating have yet to bring them money.

The CPL also doesn't seem have the ability to safely expand too far belong 12 teams, without risking oversaturation, and charge insane expansion fees.

This leaves chasing after TV as the only way to try and make money here and it is possible, most CFL teams pull a profit thanks to the league's TV deal.

If we can figure out the exact TV story I thin we'll have a much better idea of what kind of league we're dealing with and whether the budget rumours are true. While they might not land a deal or may have to pay to get on air, the very act will be very telling about this league.

Edited September 5, 2017 by matty

[Gopherbashi]

Boom sources

 

[Initial B]

Seems a bit odd to announce this on Labour Day. They really want to keep this as much under the radar as possible, don't they?

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Initial B said:

Seems a bit odd to announce this on Labour Day. They really want to keep this as much under the radar as possible, don't they?

I don't think that would have been big news anywhere outside of this forum, no matter when it was announced. We don't know anything about the office. It's nice to hear we are inching forward, but we don't really know more than we did yesterday. In fact, I thought Paul Beirne already tweeted out a picture of a whiteboard or something that was supposedly from the CPL head office. This would have been a couple months ago I think.

[MrSabiondo]

3 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Boom sources

 

What happened to making Hamilton the centre of the Canadian soccer landscape?

[matty]

4 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

Boom sources

 

GTA team in first 8 confirmed! haha

[matty]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/1512056/rangers-benfica-canada-friendly-pedro-caixinha/

The Hamilton friendly seems unrelated to the Hamilton yearly cup idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusébio_Cup

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Might be in Toronto apparently according to the original source:

but that seems unlikely given the Argos play at BMO Field the next day. Looks like this is an annual friendly game that is normally held in Lisbon in July or August, but was played in Mexico two years ago:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eusébio_Cup

Edited September 5, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

17 hours ago, matty said:

...There are two ways to make money now in sports: TV or expansion fees...

How about a league like the AHL and ECHL? Think you will find that they are mainly gate driven because the NHL scoops up almost all of the money that is likely to ever be spent on pro hockey rights. I'm not sure what to make of where this CanPL thing is heading. I like the sound of what Paul Beirne outlines as it seems realistic to me on how a domestic pro league can carve out a niche alongside MLS and thrive in the years ahead in a junior hockey alongside the NHL sort of way but with an open age format, but remember John McGrane talking about the Hamilton team potentially winding up with a $20 million budget like TFC's in a few years or something to that effect in a local Hamilton TV interview just after the May AGM and that points to there being very different preferred visions on how to proceed behind the scenes. Think you overstated things somewhat with the NBLC comparison. Somewhere significantly more substantial than NBLC but also significantly smaller in scale than the CFL is where this is probably being pitched at the moment to the cities that are expressing an interest, but are not at the stage where they can sign on the dotted line yet for a variety of reasons.

[matty]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

How about a league like the AHL and ECHL? Think you will find that they are mainly gate driven because the NHL scoops up almost all of the money that is likely to ever be spent on pro hockey rights.....

Yea that does not work, more than half of the AHL is NHL owned and those leagues likely are receiving funds from the NHL. It's a different style of league.

Look up Stefan Szymanski, he's an economics (or sports management) professor at University of Michigan and wrote Soccernomics and Why England Lose. He does a good job going over what is needed to be a success in modern sports (he really hates MLS' business model). Even if you don't agree with his conclusions, he does bring up some things to wonder about.

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

....I'm not sure what to make of where this CanPL thing is heading. I like the sound of what Paul Beirne outlines as it seems realistic to me on how a domestic pro league can carve out a niche alongside MLS and thrive in the years ahead in a junior hockey alongside the NHL sort of way but with an open age format, but remember John McGrane talking about the Hamilton team potentially winding up with a $20 million budget like TFC's in a few years or something to that effect in a local Hamilton TV interview just after the May AGM and that points to there being very different preferred visions on how to proceed behind the scenes.

This is why I want to find out if they are on the hunt for TV and if so where. I really do think it gives us a clear idea of what the league will be.

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

...Think you overstated things somewhat with the NBLC comparison. Somewhere significantly more substantial than NBLC but also significantly smaller in scale than the CFL is where this is probably being pitched at the moment to the cities that are expressing an interest, but are not at the stage where they can sign on the dotted line yet for a variety of reasons.

I know I did. Did it for effect, seems like a good opposite for CFL.

Edited September 5, 2017 by matty

[Rheo]

NASL loses div 2 status http://fiftyfive.one/2017/09/us-soccer-federation-rejects-nasls-division-ii-application/

Speculate away lol

Edited September 5, 2017 by Rheo

[Complete Homer]

7 minutes ago, Rheo said:

NASL loses div 2 status http://fiftyfive.one/2017/09/us-soccer-federation-rejects-nasls-division-ii-application/

Speculate away lol

You didn't use "Boom"

Blocked

[Complete Homer]

But seriously, IIRC that reduces the NASL exit fees to chump change. Probably removes any financial incentive for Fath to stick with NASL aside from trying to breath life into probably worthless stock 

[Rheo]

1 minute ago, Complete Homer said:

You didn't use "Boom"

Blocked

Also was not video taped or notified authentic by the queen

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

9 minutes ago, Rheo said:

NASL loses div 2 status http://fiftyfive.one/2017/09/us-soccer-federation-rejects-nasls-division-ii-application/

Speculate away lol

Didn't see that one coming. Will be interesting to see how the CSA handle things with FC Edmonton now. If they did switch leagues along with Ottawa it is hugely easier for CanPL to launch.

[matty]

time to jump faths

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

We may not be hearing the full story yet.

[Complete Homer]

Off topic, but whoever made the "CanPL TV" youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClUri6xMhnuKOa3Xm93EE8g/featured

Might want to read into Fair Dealing. I'm all for more fan made media in the ecosystem, but I get the feeling that you might run into issues with that name

Edited September 5, 2017 by Complete Homer

[ReedOnTheGrand]

36 minutes ago, Rheo said:

NASL loses div 2 status http://fiftyfive.one/2017/09/us-soccer-federation-rejects-nasls-division-ii-application/

Speculate away lol

Hopefully this put Edmonton on the 2018 CPL train, an established team will a ready to go stadium in a million plus metro area is huge. This could also help push Ottawa if another big(relatively) team joins the hype train.