CPL General

[Rheo]

Not much on Footy Soldiers CPL wise on this week's pod.  Discussed the Lenarduzzi comments from a last couple of weeks and agreed with the general board consensus (not all) that MLS B teams shouldn't be in.  Also compared (as only they can) MLS to having a Corona on a hot summer day to CPL being a micro brew you also love and that you don't abandon one for the other, "everybody can live in harmony here" 

[matty]

Cpl guys should just buy the nasl teams, sign tons of Canadians and move the teams to canada when ready

[DannyFromToronto23]

10 minutes ago, matty said:

Cpl guys should just buy the nasl teams, sign tons of Canadians and move the teams to canada when ready

The cosmos should play in the Can PL if NASL fails again lol

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Kurt Larson's podcast is worth a listen. He definitely knows his soccer especially CMNT stuff:

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/08/10/kurt-larson-podcast-toronto-fc-canadian-soccer-and-more

{Episode 4: 37:00 onwards, MLS and CPL stuff with Terry Dunfield}

[yothat]

On 8/30/2017 at 0:35 PM, Gopherbashi said:

In non-CPL news, NASL's D3 league (NISA) announced eight teams who have applied to participate in its inaugural 2018 (Edit: or 2019) season.

Charlotte
Chattanooga FC
Connecticut
Miami United F.C.
Milwaukee
Omaha
Phoenix
St. Louis

http://midfieldpress.com/2017/08/30/milwaukee-omaha-chattanooga-connecticut-headline-the-initial-batch-of-nisa-pro-soccer-applicants/

Does it make sense for the CPL inaugural season to combine with NISA or NASL for a full schedule of games until their are more teams in the CPL? 

[Rheo]

11 minutes ago, yothat said:

Does it make sense for the CPL inaugural season to combine with NISA or NASL for a full schedule of games until their are more teams in the CPL? 

Nope, no sense at all.  The league will launch with 6-8 ready teams whenever that is.

Edit-Worded poorly.  It could be done but it makes no sense given the business plan that they are going forward with.  

Edited September 1, 2017 by Rheo

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 minutes ago, yothat said:

Does it make sense for the CPL inaugural season to combine with NISA or NASL for a full schedule of games until their are more teams in the CPL? 

Yes, but there is zero chance of it happening because of the optics of a would be "D1 in Canada" partnering with a D3 in USSF terms. The USL would probably be the better option if they were going to do that sort of thing, but everything we have heard has made it clear that they won't.

[yothat]

Well the knock on the cfl is .. a league with only 8 teams seems pretty micky mouse. 

[Rheo]

9 minutes ago, yothat said:

Well the knock on the cfl is .. a league with only 8 teams seems pretty micky mouse. 

The only people who knock the CFL for having eight teams are those who don't care about it and you're not going to win those people over or convert them anyways.  So who cares if those people think it's "Mickey Mouse"

If you join an American league you subjugate yourself to their rules (see MLS) and then you don't fulfill your stated mandate (not word for word) of for Canadians by Canadians.  That's a big part of their marketing strategy, pulling on the patriotic heart strings per say.  

They'll launch when they're ready with a decent amount of teams and grow from there if things go as they plan.

[matty]

1 hour ago, yothat said:

Well the knock on the cfl is .. a league with only 8 teams seems pretty micky mouse. 

why?

[grasshopper1917]

3 hours ago, yothat said:

Well the knock on the cfl is .. a league with only 8 teams seems pretty micky mouse. 

Some people in Canada knock the CFL but it has nothing to down with 8 teams. They knock it because it is not the NFL. 

People will also knock the CPL not because it has 'X' amount of teams but because it is not the EPL or it is not MLS. 

The CFL has is doing ok despite the naysayers and im sure the CPL can too. MLS also has lots of critics who point out they are not EPL and they do fine. 

If the CFL had 16 teams people would still call them Mickey Mouse because hey are not the top league. There can only be one top league and every other will have naysayers. Many of them still prosper.

[RickC]

Yes, some see an 8 team league as mickey mouse. So, it's good that the RedBlacks joined so the CFL is 9 teams. In terms of Canadian sport, it was not uncommon at all to have few teams in leagues. One of the forerunners of the CFL was the Interprovincial Rugby Football Union which had 4 teams (the Big Four) and lasted about 50 years. We all know about the "original" 6 team NHL. Yes, my examples are from years ago, but at that time they were seen as anything but mickey mouse-like. I do, however, agree that getting to about 12 teams is of great importance so it can be reasonably country wide. We can then argue about is that enough, or should there be 14 or 16... 

[matty]

5 hours ago, RickC said:

...I do, however, agree that getting to about 12 teams is of great importance so it can be reasonably country wide. We can then argue about is that enough, or should there be 14 or 16... 

I don't think getting to 12 is important. I think it's what people (including I) would like to see but it's not important. What I do think is important is being stable and secure. If that can be done with 12 great but there is nothing wrong with the league being conservative and sticking to stable markets with strong ownership and avoiding oversaturating markets (e.g. the team of 3-4 teams in Toronto, counting TFC).

While I do think 6 is too few long term, I see no issue with following a CFL model and having 8-10 teams if that's what can be done safely. The CFL is the best example we have of running a league off of Canada and we should too at it rather than the joint leagues we usually see in Canada. I also think we should look to the A-League (10 teams) rather than MLS or most of the big Euro leagues to get an idea of what to expect, due to their population and land size.

All that said, I would like to see 10-13 teams

Edited September 2, 2017 by matty

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

14 hours ago, matty said:

why?

It gets a bit monotonous when there are that few teams with no promotion and relegation. In Australia they actually do badly want to expand the A league beyond 10 for that reason as the general feeling is that it is getting a bit stale at the moment:

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/stale-a-league-is-in-need-of-expansion

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/aleague-expansion-a-strategic-priority-ffa-and-clubs/news-story/2db224624ded346ac0dac56bfe6aa0fd

From what I have read adding third teams in Melbourne and Sydney are how they are most likely to achieve 12 once they sort out the financial aspects with second teams in Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane also very much on the agenda eventually as they found that local derbies in the largest million plus cities worked better than adding small sub-million market teams like Gold Coast and Townsville (two expansion teams quickly folded due to small crowds) given their break even is considerably higher that CanPL has in mind and proved to be out of reach given soccer in Australia, as is also the case in Canada, is not the top spectator sport. In a Canadian context, the presence of the three MLS teams means that a lower break even and a focus on smaller markets is the better way to go and if that can really be done successfully in cities like Halifax, K-W and Saskatoon expansion well past 10 should be doable.

[matty]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

It gets a bit monotonous when there are that few teams with no promotion and relegation. In Australia they actually do badly want to expand the A league beyond 10 for that reason as the general feeling is that it is getting a bit stale at the moment:

https://www.thesportsman.com/articles/stale-a-league-is-in-need-of-expansion

https://www.foxsports.com.au/football/a-league/aleague-expansion-a-strategic-priority-ffa-and-clubs/news-story/2db224624ded346ac0dac56bfe6aa0fd

From what I have read adding third teams in Melbourne and Sydney are how they are most likely to achieve 12 once they sort out the financial aspects with second teams in Perth, Adelaide and Brisbane also very much on the agenda eventually as they found that local derbies in the largest million plus cities worked better than adding small sub-million market teams like Gold Coast and Townsville (two expansion teams quickly folded due to small crowds) given their break even is considerably higher that CanPL has in mind and proved to be out of reach given soccer in Australia, as is also the case in Canada, is not the top spectator sport. In a Canadian context, the presence of the three MLS teams means that a lower break even and a focus on smaller markets is the better way to go and if that can really be done successfully in cities like Halifax, K-W and Saskatoon expansion well past 10 should be doable.

Firstly, Thank you for using A League as an example. Nice to see it used rather than MLS or Europe because it makes more sense for us.

That said, I don't dull match ups is reason to call something Mickey Mouse. If this league is labelled Mickey Mouse it's because it's a poor quality league which would not be solved with a dozen teams. That said I could see 6 teams getting dull fast, even 8 may.

I agree the alternative market set-up is the way to go here but don't think it's going to lead to the aggressive expansion some seem to think is needed (I would call doubling you team count in under a decade is aggressive). 

[matty]

Anyone wanna bet on if we see CPL ads during Canada vs Jamaica?

[saladroit]

Not sure where else to put this but there's rumors swirling around that Benfica and Rangers are playing a friendly in Hamilton on October 6th.

 

This is relevant to CPL because Hamilton's getting a team in the league.

Edited September 3, 2017 by saladroit

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

There probably is no direct CPL link as the city council in Hamilton are in litigation with the Ticats over issues related to the building of Tim Horton Field, but it's a FIFA date and the Ticats are playing in Winnipeg that weekend so seems credible, if a local organizer is willing to pay two hefty appearance fees. Think up to 5000 or so Rangers fans could be expected to roll up from various parts of southern Ontario and nearby parts of the United States based on what happened with the Dinamo Zagreb game at the Rogers Centre about a decade or so ago and Benfica could probably attract significantly more than that given there has been more recent immigration from Portugal than there has been from Scotland, so 20,000+ isn't out of the question if the teams are known to be bringing most of their top players and it is marketed well to soccer fans in the Hamilton area with reasonable ticket prices.

Edited September 3, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Complete Homer]

6 hours ago, saladroit said:

Not sure where else to put this but there's rumors swirling around that Benfica and Rangers are playing a friendly in Hamilton on October 6th.

 

This is relevant to CPL because Hamilton's getting a team in the league.

I'm thinking it's true. The grapevine had already been talking that a Benfica friendly had been cancelled since the opponent pulled out. The Rangers are probably a replacement 

But no, BBTB, the organization bringing a team to Hamilton and has repeatedly talked about making an international club tournament in Hamilton every year would have nothing to do with this ?

[matty]

2 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

I'm thinking it's true. The grapevine had already been talking that a Benfica friendly had been cancelled since the opponent pulled out. The Rangers are probably a replacement 

But no, BBTB, the organization bringing a team to Hamilton and has repeatedly talked about making an international club tournament in Hamilton every year would have nothing to do with this ?

The Tim Hortons' Cup played by the Hamilton Steelers and 3 mid sized clubs

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The interesting angle to watch on this from a CPL in 2018 sort of standpoint is that the Ticats claim they still have exclusive rights to pro soccer at THF, while the city council claim they don't as it expired back in May 2016. The way around that is to do it indirectly through a third party promoter, if the stadium litigation still hasn't been sorted out.

[Complete Homer]

Rereading all of the CPL articles in the last couple of months for the next rumour roundup, and saw this paragraph from Beirne in one of Gourlie's articles. Should put the conversation a couple pages back to rest (Which I'm sure was @rob.notenboom's point)

“There are 10 who are on the path to readiness. If we launch this league with six teams, I would suspect the Saskatchewan team would be No, 7 or No. 8. There are cities that are a little bit behind this group and they will be nine and 10,” Beirne said. “Then there are some others that are just getting started, so they have a lot of work to do. They have to find investors. They have to find that piece of land. They have to find a business model that makes sense for them and that community. There’s a lot of moving parts, but all of them are moving in the right direction and all of them are moving a lot faster than people realize.”

https://juneof86.com/2017/07/22/excitement-building-for-pro-soccer-in-saskatchewan/

[Gopherbashi]

21 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

Rereading all of the CPL articles in the last couple of months for the next rumour roundup, and saw this paragraph from Beirne in one of Gourlie's articles. Should put the conversation a couple pages back to rest (Which I'm sure was @rob.notenboom's point)

I'm pretty sure that unless there's video proof of him saying this, and that his words are officially noted in a Parliamentary record countersigned by the Queen herself, that some here will not accept these words as legitimate.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Do we really need to go through this all again because Complete Homer is engaged in a petty personal feud? There are clearly 10 markets at a minimum where they are trying to get things to work. Nobody has argued that point as far as I aware. What is not clear is whether there is an investor in each of those 10 markets who is actually ready, willing and/or able to start writing cheques straight away because some as appears to probably be the case with the Ottawa Fury may well be waiting for CPL to prove to them that the league will actually work before commiting to name but one scenario.

Edited September 3, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[ReedOnTheGrand]

24 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Do we really need to go through this all again because Complete Homer is engaged in a petty personal feud? There are clearly 10 markets at a minimum where they are trying to get things to work. Nobody has argued that point as far as I aware. What is not clear is whether there is an investor in each of those 10 markets who is actually ready, willing and/or able to start writing cheques straight away because some as appears to probably be the case with the Ottawa Fury may well be waiting for CPL to prove to them that the league will actually work before commiting to name but one scenario.

Usually any sort of pro sports bid needs proof of investment power so I'm pretty confident each market has at least some sort of financial backing.