Camp Poutine 2017

[BearcatSA]

9 hours ago, Vince193 said:

Most of the young guys we'd call are doing the same thing....

Sadly, true, but they are younger with a possibility of more upside.

[Shway]

17 hours ago, Vince193 said:

Most of the young guys we'd call are doing the same thing....

The ones your aware of...

Pasher? Cox? Davies? Tabla? Gonzalez? Ellis-Hayden? Edwards? James? Didic? 

All those players got substantial minutes this year playing in the the USL, some leading their teams into the playoffs. 

Now you might say "this is USL quality" ...well the way I see it, they are young "up and coming" players who performed in the league and got substantial minutes.

So what better way to see how young talent who haven't got a shot on the international stage? Play them against Bermuda...a team full of University and PDL players with the infamous Reggie Lambe leading the line. 

 

Context meets Perspective. 

[Shway]

To follow up...do we really need Johnson, Ricketts, Ledgerwood, De Jong, Edgar at this camp for what? They show out against Bermuda was it gained? The tied or lose more is lost.

[Pottsy3]

Haven't heard this name much, but Ben Fisk surely must deserve a call. And might we see Callum Irving too, or Greg Ranjitsingh since I don't believe he's officially cap tied to T & T yet. It's also too bad Brett Levis is out, would've been a good chance for him to make a splash.

[El Hombre]

4 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

To follow up...do we really need Johnson, Ricketts, Ledgerwood, De Jong, Edgar at this camp for what? They show out against Bermuda was it gained? The tied or lose more is lost.

They need to be there because they've been to San Pedro Sula and they tied the mighty Belize.

The 90 minutes that they kick a ball around is inconsequential next to the 5 days they spend preparing for the game.  This is the perfect opportunity for veterans to share what it's like going into an environment like this and show them how to prepare and how to deal with the conditions.  They would also hopefully educate them that we are not in a position to take any opponent lightly.

[Obinna]

Agree. We need a balance.

[Shway]

15 hours ago, El Hombre said:

They need to be there because they've been to San Pedro Sula and they tied the mighty Belize.

The 90 minutes that they kick a ball around is inconsequential next to the 5 days they spend preparing for the game.  This is the perfect opportunity for veterans to share what it's like going into an environment like this and show them how to prepare and how to deal with the conditions.  They would also hopefully educate them that we are not in a position to take any opponent lightly.

Not taking any opponent lightly...but were talking about Bermuda who is worse than Belize (according to rankings)....and San Pedro Sula...is Honduras right? where does the comparison come in at all?

We've arguably had our "best" manager organize and improve tactics, while having at his disposal arguably the best players and still do what we've done best..fail. The fact that we went to Belize and tied, is another story of why we shouldn't be holding on to these vets thats have seen cycles of failure.

I just don't get the logic of bringing in the same players over, and over, and over again to get the same expectation an result. Some will say Haber is still developing, Ledgerwood is stable, and Edgar is consistent....and we'll never know what the younger players would do only until they get the opportunity to sign for a club on a higher level, and not based on the performance with their current team. 

 

The logic is messed up, and nothing has changed.

[Obinna]

5 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Not taking any opponent lightly...but were talking about Bermuda who is worse than Belize (according to rankings)....and San Pedro Sula...is Honduras right? where does the comparison come in at all?

We've arguably had our "best" manager organize and improve tactics, while having at his disposal arguably the best players and still do what we've done best..fail. The fact that we went to Belize and tied, is another story of why we shouldn't be holding on to these vets thats have seen cycles of failure.

I just don't get the logic of bringing in the same players over, and over, and over again to get the same expectation an result. Some will say Haber is still developing, Ledgerwood is stable, and Edgar is consistent....and we'll never know what the younger players would do only until they get the opportunity to sign for a club on a higher level, and not based on the performance with their current team. 

 

The logic is messed up, and nothing has changed.

We don't want all of the same players, only the ones who will play a role moving forward. Take Edgar: he is 29 and will likely be a starter in his first full MLS season. I wouldn't be surprised if he wears the captain's armband. That is a guy we want in camp. Ledgerwood? I don't think that is necessary, but I won't complain. I just want Bustos, Chapman, Babouli, Jackson-Hamel, Hamilton, Froese, and maybe a guy like Shome. Fill the rest of the roster with regulars.

[El Hombre]

10 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

Not taking any opponent lightly...but were talking about Bermuda who is worse than Belize (according to rankings)....and San Pedro Sula...is Honduras right? where does the comparison come in at all?

 

I guess I wasn't explicit enough with what I was saying.  Two points:

1) I don't care how bad you think Bermuda is.  The vets need to point out that you can't take any opponent lightly.  I'm not sure where anyone involved with Canadian soccer (player, manager or fan *cough* *cough*) has any reason to have any sense of superiority over any other nation.

2) Players who have been to San Pedro Sula and Azteca and the like need to educate the young players in what they need to do to prepare and what the atmosphere is like.  Again, without this we're prone to walk into an opponent's stadium with wholly undeserved confidence and lacking in preparation (see: 2015 U20 qualification).  A trip to Bermuda like this is the perfect opportunity.  Without a veteran's perspective, this would be a holiday in January.  In an ideal situation the vets would show the kids that no matter the opponent, you take this shit seriously.

[Shway]

5 hours ago, Obinna said:

We don't want all of the same players, only the ones who will play a role moving forward. Take Edgar: he is 29 and will likely be a starter in his first full MLS season. I wouldn't be surprised if he wears the captain's armband. That is a guy we want in camp. Ledgerwood? I don't think that is necessary, but I won't complain. I just want Bustos, Chapman, Babouli, Jackson-Hamel, Hamilton, Froese, and maybe a guy like Shome. Fill the rest of the roster with regulars.

The same failed regulars who have got chance, after, chance, after chance? We won't play a meaningful game until 2019, when half the regulars will be well into their thirties. 

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

I guess I wasn't explicit enough with what I was saying.  Two points:

1) I don't care how bad you think Bermuda is.  The vets need to point out that you can't take any opponent lightly.  I'm not sure where anyone involved with Canadian soccer (player, manager or fan *cough* *cough*) has any reason to have any sense of superiority over any other nation.

2) Players who have been to San Pedro Sula and Azteca and the like need to educate the young players in what they need to do to prepare and what the atmosphere is like.  Again, without this we're prone to walk into an opponent's stadium with wholly undeserved confidence and lacking in preparation (see: 2015 U20 qualification).  A trip to Bermuda like this is the perfect opportunity.  Without a veteran's perspective, this would be a holiday in January.  In an ideal situation the vets would show the kids that no matter the opponent, you take this shit seriously.

Okay now I understand your thought process for 1.  My point is that we're playing a nation where we have the chance to try something new. Whether it's 3-5-2formation, or an U-25 team, something new outside of calling up the same players over and over again and expecting change, expecting gelling against an extremely weaker opponent will bring forth a renewed sense of ability/skill to perform in places like Mexico's or Honduras. 

 

2.  Undoubtedly veterans presence is key... But whats veterans presence if they haven't won anything before? What experience or advice are they giving... How to lose 3-0, vs how to lose 8-1??

It's like when older guys try to give you financial advice, but they have nothing to show for it, but the failures of it. Yes you can learn from the failures, but never tangible skills to succeed. 

The reality is,  its an ideal situation for the vets to take a nice January preseason vacation in a warm place like Bermuda, warm up against a PDL side to prepare for their new season. 

 Again my main point is that we have sooooo many players young and older who are on the same level BUT the younger players have not got the chance to prove themselves on the national stage due to the older guys (who have failed at every level) claiming an unwarranted spot in the team.

[matty]

I largely agree with @Jahinho Guerro that we should be trying something new here and giving young guys a shot. That said, I do think a few vets (likely De Jong, Edgar and Ricketts) should go to mentor and to bring more knowledge to the game. I'm hoping the number of over 25 is no more than 4.

14 hours ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

....We won't play a meaningful game until 2019, when half the regulars will be well into their thirties. 

Not to be a dick but the Gold Cup is coming up. While I know most like to downplay it, it is meaningful when it comes to our ranking.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

The CSA said the squad would be announced this week.

Also, what's the US city they are going to prior to flying out to Bermuda?

[Shway]

7 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

The CSA said the squad would be announced this week.

Also, what's the US city they are going to prior to flying out to Bermuda?

Florida more than likely

[matty]

I'm looking at the US callups for their friendlies and I see they're using a solely MLS team. Hopeful Canada does similar.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

2 hours ago, matty said:

I'm looking at the US callups for their friendlies and I see they're using a solely MLS team. Hopeful Canada does similar.

Why? You don't want to see Simon Thomas or Olivier Ocean?

[matty]

9 minutes ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Why? You don't want to see Simon Thomas or Olivier Ocean?

Ocean no, this camp should be for youngsters and to be honest I want CanMNT to avoid anyone over 33 (expect for maybe Hutch).

Thomas I wouldn't mind seeing. I'm not saying I watch to see an MLS/NASL exclusive camp but I'd like to see this camp focused on them

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

11 minutes ago, matty said:

Ocean no, this camp should be for youngsters and to be honest I want CanMNT to avoid anyone over 33 (expect for maybe Hutch).

Thomas I wouldn't mind seeing. I'm not saying I watch to see an MLS/NASL exclusive camp but I'd like to see this camp focused on them

Who else could it be focused on? It's Camp Poutine! The fact that our player pool is so small and it will be outside a FIFA date means it will naturally be focused on MLS/NASL/USL players.

[matty]

Just now, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

Who else could it be focused on? It's Camp Poutine! The fact that our player pool is so small and it will be outside a FIFA date means it will naturally be focused on MLS/NASL/USL players.

I'm aware it will mostly be but there's also a number of capped Canadians (at least 9 that I can think of off the top of my head) who are either currently on a winter break or in an offseason from their spring to fall leagues in Scandinavia or Asia. I don't want to see any of the 30+ guys from this group go and even wouldn't mind if this entire group of players was skipped on this one in favour uncapped young MLS and NASL talent.

[Guest]

On 2016-12-15 at 2:34 AM, Jahinho Guerro said:

To follow up...do we really need Johnson, Ricketts, Ledgerwood, De Jong, Edgar at this camp for what? They show out against Bermuda was it gained? The tied or lose more is lost.

Yes we do because even though its a bad team we need to develop some sort of chemistry to the team

[lazlo_80]

It's hard for me to care too much about this camp without a new coach in place yet. 

 

[Shway]

2 hours ago, canta15 said:

Yes we do because even though its a bad team we need to develop some sort of chemistry to the team

Chemistry isn't created with key players missing. With Arfield, Hutch, Hoilett, Edgar out.....we need to exhaust our options to see what players can compliment the predicted core for the GC. I also wouldn't be surprised if TFC players are given a break, so that's three more core players gone.

[Shway]

12 hours ago, lazlo_80 said:

It's hard for me to care too much about this camp without a new coach in place yet. 

 

I get it, but even if the coach was announced as Guardiola .....do you really think the coach is going to be the one to change our fortunes?.....I sure don't.

[Stryker911]

Anyone else notice that Frei was called up to the US camp? Good for him. If only he hadn't gotten hurt and then traded he would possibly have been given a shot with us.

[lazlo_80]

47 minutes ago, Jahinho Guerro said:

I get it, but even if the coach was announced as Guardiola .....do you really think the coach is going to be the one to change our fortunes?.....I sure don't.

I think you'd at least get an idea of the type of players he favors for the next cycle. Right now even if Bustos has another great game there's no real guarantee he'll be in the plans of the next coach.

[JDub]

Roster coming out today?