The Floro Replacement

[Rheo]

And down goes Klinsmann...

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/u-s-soccer-fires-head-coach-jurgen-klinsmann/

[umpiredice]

So, Klinsmann has just officially been sacked.  Is he so far out of our price range that we should not even consider trying to hire him?  Obviously Canada can't offer nearly as much money as the USA paid him - but if there's any chance at all, I think we should go after him with everything we've got.  He's high profile, highly experienced, has been successful at the highest levels, and has contacts throughout the world.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

1 minute ago, umpiredice said:

So, Klinsmann has just officially been sacked.  Is he so far out of our price range that we should not even consider trying to hire him?

I wouldn't take Klinsmann even if he cost half as much as Floro.

EDIT: US Soccer confirms:

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2016/11/21/19/34/161121-mnt-us-soccer-parts-ways-with-jurgen-klinsmann

 

 

[jpg75]

I'll pass on Klinsmann, completely over-rated.

[matty]

Ummmm nah not now

[MtlMario]

19 hours ago, matty said:

He's a popular name but he's not what's needed right now nor is he what they're rumoured to be looking for (MLS experience). I also question if he would take the position at the current time.

I don't know if a complete change is needed to the style but a greater willingness to call up Canadians who are actually playing regularly in stronger leagues.

It was reported on TVA that if he was asked (Dos Santos) he would take the job right away. I wouldn't mind seeing what he could do.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

 

41 minutes ago, umpiredice said:

I think we should go after him with everything we've got.  He's high profile, highly experienced, has been successful at the highest levels,

We need a coach that will make the team win in Central America.

Under Klinsmann, the USMNT did about as well as can be expected at home. Quite decent results at the Copa America for example.

In WCQ in Central America (including Mexico), it's a completely different story:

 

WCQ for 2014:
June 12th 2012 Draw in Guatemala:
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=258368/match=300181884/report.html

February 6th 2013 Loss in Honduras:
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=258372/match=300221995/report.html

March 26th 2013. Draw in Mexico
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=258372/match=300221982/report.html

September 6th 2013 Loss in Costa Rica:
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=258372/match=300221999/report.html

October 15th 2013, Win in Panama City. (only by getting two goals in stoppage time!!!)
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=258372/match=300221980/report.html

 

WCQ for 2018:
March 25th 2016 Loss in Guatemala
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=2000062536/match=300334119/index.html

November 15th 2016 Loss in Costa Rica:
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/matches/round=276449/match=300364746/index.html

 

I will mention for the sake of fair analysis that he did win twice in friendlies in Central America:

January 25th 2012 Win in Panama (friendly):
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/11/33/us-mnt-defeats-panama-with-zusi-goal

August 15th 2012 win in mexico (friendly):
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/13/20/mnt-earns-first-win-at-estadio-azteca (When Mexico was at its worst  - the team was in a slump for the next year)

 

My thinking is Klinsmann was not good enough in central america with a better team than ours and more ressources than the CSA could afford to give him even if he was hired.

[matty]

8 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

It was reported on TVA that if he was asked (Dos Santos) he would take the job right away. I wouldn't mind seeing what he could do.

I do recall reading that but he wants to reach the highest levels and a failed Canada campaign could hurt his future in club soccer future

[MtlMario]

8 minutes ago, matty said:

I do recall reading that but he wants to reach the highest levels and a failed Canada campaign could hurt his future in club soccer future

It was reported not long ago,about 3 weeks ago. And it was always a dream of his to coach Canada.

[Guest]

I can see it now. Jurgen carriea the underdog Canadians to knock the USA out of 2022 orld Cup qualification

[Grizzly]

Dos Santos has potential but he is far from being ready to be the national team coach. Maybe in 10 years if he has been successful at a higher level than he has coached at so far. That pretty much sums up all of the Canadian choices except Van 't Schip who has a bit more experience than the other but pretty mixed results. Yes it might be possible to get lucky and 1 of the 5 Canadians could be the right fit but also maybe none of them would work and even if one would work which one? That is why experienced coaches with an impressive CV are better choices, it is not a guarantee that this coach will be the right fit but it certainly raises the odds by a lot. I would say with the last round of choose Canadian coaches we were 0 for 3 with Yallop, Mitchell and Hart so experience sure does not suggest that this is the best approach.

As for Klinsman I think he is totally overrated. He took over Germany at a rare low point for the team following a very unpopular coach. Having no experience himself coaching he hired Joachim Low, an experienced and successful coach as assistant. Germany had a decent record heading in friendlies before the World Cup though often playing teams below their level but the play of the team was heavily criticized. Germans were pretty pessimistic heading into the World Cup they were hosting and did better than most expected finishing 3rd so that silenced the critics and boosted his reputation. However, Germany was also at home and had a very easy draw, easy group stage, easy opponent in first round and it wasn't to their quarter final match they finally faced a top team, Argentina, who they beat on penalties. They then lost to Italy in the semis though did beat Portugal in the 3rd place match. It is not a bad record but he is also coaching arguably the most consistently good team in the world, it is not like he coached Slovenia to a run of upsets. And then his assistant coach takes over and does considerably better than he did and has become probably one of Germany's all time best coaches which really makes one question how much of the success under Klinsmann was due to Low. At Bayern again he had the best team in Germany and lasted less than one season. Yes they were in 3rd place when he was fired but with Bayern's squad they should have been in 1st place and they were not playing well when he was fired and immediately improved under his replacement. The US did fine getting out of a tough group in the 2014 WC but otherwise his tenure there has been pretty mixed. Not to mention that he has a tendency to get into disputes with other members of management and his star players which would certainly be a bad thing for us given we have so few star players. I would really pass on Klinsmann even if we could get him cheap which I doubt will be the case.

[Scorpion26]

On having a Canadian coach I can't see why not consider anyone of them.

There will be many assumptions from posters and the likes about the Canadian coach ability to lead CMNT. None of us here can predict the type of results a Canadian coach will have on CMNT either it will be positive or negative. If they come in and they're chosen I would be glad to see a Canadian coach lead Canada to a WCQ. Whomever is chosen by CSA board I do hope this person will be ready for this challenge and has a plan to implant into the entire Canadian soccer structure. 

[matty]

2 hours ago, MtlMario said:

It was reported not long ago,about 3 weeks ago. And it was always a dream of his to coach Canada.

I'm aware of when he said it and know he would love to manage canada but that doesn't change my opinion here. I question if he would take the post at the current time.

He wants to reach the highest levels of club management and again a poor showing with canada could hurt that.

[matty]

Honestly in my opinion the next coach will likely be an American who has coached with some success in mls and has played with the usmnt. I'm not saying this is best but i think it's what is going to happen

[-Hammer-]

This might seem odd, but I think the CSA's war chest this cycle needs to go towards building the game nationally, especially out west and not towards a pricey coach, and Jurgen would be that kinda pricey coach.

[matty]

3 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

 

We need a coach that will make the team win in Central America....

I don't view this as the most urgent achievement for Canada as we're 3-4 years away from having that to worry about. It's project that over the next few years should be addressed with friendlies.

The more urgent issue is exiting the group stage at the Gold Cup, something that hasn't happened in 7 years now. How can Canadians honestly expect to see CanMNT reach the hex when they're unable to even achieve lucky loser/top 8 status in a 12 team tournament held in a primarily neutral nation for a fucking decade?

Reaching the Gold Cup knockout round should be goal #1.

[The Ref]

2 hours ago, matty said:

I don't view this as the most urgent achievement for Canada as we're 3-4 years away from having that to worry about. It's project that over the next few years should be addressed with friendlies.

The more urgent issue is exiting the group stage at the Gold Cup, something that hasn't happened in 7 years now. How can Canadians honestly expect to see CanMNT reach the hex when they're unable to even achieve lucky loser/top 8 status in a 12 team tournament held in a primarily neutral nation for a fucking decade?

Reaching the Gold Cup knockout round should be goal #1.

What does DeVos says about all this mess.  Is he advising and guiding the CSA or has he just become another suit.

[matty]

19 minutes ago, The Ref said:

What does DeVos says about all this mess.  Is he advising and guiding the CSA or has he just become another suit.

he's figuring out how best to develop kids and train coaches i think

[Gian-Luca]

I'm not sure if Klinsmann is over-rated, as I'm not sure how many people actually still rate him that highly. Somewhat ironic that he gets fired in part because the team was struggling against the likes of Jamaica, Costa Rica and Guatemala given that he was the person from the Concacaf region who was most publicly against changing the WCQ format because he wanted to see the US improve by playing more often against the likes of Argentina and Brazil and less against Concacaf teams.

[WheatsheafSK]

I am rather surprised by the amount of discussion on whether we need a Canadian or foreigner heading up the CMNT program.  To me, the bigger issue is what their role will be.  Floro's role appeared to be both head coach of the national team and the U-23 (although his son coached the Pan Am team) - which suggests that he was involved in program development of the national team set up as well.  Moving forward, CSA needs to have a discussion of whether they want (1) a manager/director of soccer who sets the plan for all men's/boy's for the next six years, or (2) a high performance coach (i.e. head coach) - focused on the CMNT program only, while someone else takes responsibility for the overall vision of the program.  Obviously the second option would still involve dialogue between coaches at all levels.

Once the job description is finalized, we can discuss who best fits that description.  

Since we have kicked around Dos Santos name on this forum, I will say that from what I saw here in Ottawa, he would make a decent head coach.  He seems to have enough technical knowledge and man-management skills to get players to work as a cohesive unit.  Not sure I would be willing to hand him the keys to mould the entire program, but only because I am not convinced he has enough experience yet. 

[Keegan]

19 hours ago, matty said:

I don't view this as the most urgent achievement for Canada as we're 3-4 years away from having that to worry about. It's project that over the next few years should be addressed with friendlies.

The more urgent issue is exiting the group stage at the Gold Cup, something that hasn't happened in 7 years now. How can Canadians honestly expect to see CanMNT reach the hex when they're unable to even achieve lucky loser/top 8 status in a 12 team tournament held in a primarily neutral nation for a fucking decade?

Reaching the Gold Cup knockout round should be goal #1.

Amen.  Just 4 teams get knocked out at the group stage and we've been out in the last 3 tournaments, that is a complete joke.  

If we go in with Findlay this is a joke.  Maybe we haven't found the perfect fit yet but at least give SOMEONE a chance in the meantime, it's what other nations that aren't jokes do.  

[matty]

33 minutes ago, WheatsheafSK said:

I am rather surprised by the amount of discussion on whether we need a Canadian or foreigner heading up the CMNT program.  To me, the bigger issue is what their role will be.  Floro's role appeared to be both head coach of the national team and the U-23 (although his son coached the Pan Am team) - which suggests that he was involved in program development of the national team set up as well.  Moving forward, CSA needs to have a discussion of whether they want (1) a manager/director of soccer who sets the plan for all men's/boy's for the next six years, or (2) a high performance coach (i.e. head coach) - focused on the CMNT program only, while someone else takes responsibility for the overall vision of the program.  Obviously the second option would still involve dialogue between coaches at all levels.

Once the job description is finalized, we can discuss who best fits that description.  

Since we have kicked around Dos Santos name on this forum, I will say that from what I saw here in Ottawa, he would make a decent head coach.  He seems to have enough technical knowledge and man-management skills to get players to work as a cohesive unit.  Not sure I would be willing to hand him the keys to mould the entire program, but only because I am not convinced he has enough experience yet. 

This is very true. I think many have been expecting the manager/director to be the role which is my Sigi, Bradley and Arena were mentioned a great deal in the early weeks after Floro quit.

I personally am hopeful we go with just a manager for at least the next 2 years.

15 minutes ago, Keegan said:

Amen.  Just 4 teams get knocked out at the group stage and we've been out in the last 3 tournaments, that is a complete joke.  

If we go in with Findlay this is a joke.  Maybe we haven't found the perfect fit yet but at least give SOMEONE a chance in the meantime, it's what other nations that aren't jokes do.  

I hope we have a head coach in place by the end of the year.

[The Ref]

Can't count with Arena anymore.  He's taken the U.S. job replacing a fired Klinsman.

[matty]

28 minutes ago, The Ref said:

Can't count with Arena anymore.  He's taken the U.S. job replacing a fired Klinsman.

Yepperz same goes for Bradley. Sigi's still out there and Klinsman is now too. Doubt Canada goes for either of them.

[matty]

Just curious since everyone here had a thing for Robinson early on and seems to have a fixation on Dos Santos, what does everyone think of either Vanney or Biello for the role? I'm not endorsing either of them for it, just curious. They do both know Canadian soccer, have MLS coaching experience and CONCACAF international experience as players.