The Floro Replacement

[matty]

Because the other thead about Floro name hints that it's more about bashing Floro than who should replace him (which many might already be over so they won't click the thread), I figured I'd start one solely going over who should replace him and how soon. Sort of a place we can go over what kind of coach we'd like to see take over (experience, style, ect.) and other key factors like when they should hire by. Debate is encouraged.

Some things of note

There have been a few lists published that I know of (including mine)

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/10/04/squizzato-short-list-canadian-national-team-head-coaching-candidates - focused on current fan chatter

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Articles2016/WhoShouldReplaceFloroAList.aspx - focused on media opinions

and an interesting opinion piece by Terry Dunfield http://www.tsn.ca/inside-floro-s-tenure-with-the-canadian-men-s-team-1.567511

Popular figures so far
Marc dos Santos (maybe not available)
Carl Robinson (maybe not available)
Nick Dasovic
Sigi Schmid
Bob Bradley
Bruce Arena
Jesse Marsch

[matty]

I'll start. MLS head coaching experience is a near must for me (Liga MX is the only suitable experience without CONCACAF national team experience). Sigi should be the #1 target. If not him than someone with either an MLS Cup or Supporters' Shield that's available and national team experience as a player.

We should also have our next coach in place before the next Gold Cup (before the March friendlies preferably).

[David C.]

My offhand thoughts would be:

i) No Canadian candidates have the experience/resume to take on the job. That includes Dos Santos, Dasovic and Mark Watson (who surprises me for even being mentioned).

ii) I think the new hire will come out of nowhere, similar to Holger and Benito. I don't think anyone had these two on their radar, until they were announced.

iii) I am curious about the discussion some have raised, that a Latin American might help us overcome our increasing failings with Latin American teams. Not saying that is the answer for us (or who would be available) but still quite interested in the conversation.

iv) I mentioned in previous threads that Albert Roca, the coach that led El Salvador in the last Gold Cup, might be an interesting one to look into. For some reason, I'm a bit fascinated by this guy (although I don't claim to know very much about him).

[The Ref]

For me whoever makes the short list should be an individual who first comes to Canada and looks at all our players so as to become fully aware of what he has to work with.  Then make a decision looking into his own experience to see whether he can do something to improve us as a team and as players.  If he still is interested and feel he can do the job, then he should present a comprehensive and detailed plan short and long terms as to how and what he will do.  Based on that working plan the CSA can make an informed decision.

[Vince193]

12 minutes ago, The Ref said:

For me whoever makes the short list should be an individual who first comes to Canada and looks at all our players so as to become fully aware of what he has to work with.  Then make a decision looking into his own experience to see whether he can do something to improve us as a team and as players.  If he still is interested and feel he can do the job, then he should present a comprehensive and detailed plan short and long terms as to how and what he will do.  Based on that working plan the CSA can make an informed decision.

Didn't Jesse Marsch do that?

[jpg75]

1 hour ago, matty said:

Popular figures so far
Marc dos Santos (maybe not available)
Carl Robinson (maybe not available)
Nick Dasovic

The fact that anybody, let alone multiple people consider these names as "popular" makes me seriously question what the hell i am doing here. Like honestly, who the fuck cares if Carl Robinson is available? 

I'm going to open a sock account and start popping out ridiculous names like Bob Lenarduzzi, Tony Taylor, John Carver, Mo Johnston etc. just to see if anybody actually pays attention or is just splurging out names of coaches that have at one time been a) connected to the NT program or b( are Canadian or c) coached a Canadian MLS team.

[king1010]

21 minutes ago, jpg75 said:

The fact that anybody, let alone multiple people consider these names as "popular" makes me seriously question what the hell i am doing here. Like honestly, who the fuck cares if Carl Robinson is available? 

I'm going to open a sock account and start popping out ridiculous names like Bob Lenarduzzi, Tony Taylor, John Carver, Mo Johnston etc. just to see if anybody actually pays attention or is just splurging out names of coaches that have at one time been a) connected to the NT program or b( are Canadian or c) coached a Canadian MLS team.

Who pissed in ur cheerios?

[jpg75]

3 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Who pissed in ur cheerios?

You did Tommy, you did.

[jpg75]

Here's a list of affordable coaches with CONCACAF experience:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinaldo_Rueda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Guimarães

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Maturana

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubén_Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Roca

 

 

[toontownman]

In reality, providing there isn't a mystery donor that can financially help us afford a top line coach to build something here long term.

- knowledge of concacaf and it's teams/players = essential.

- Experience coaching in concacaf, MLS = a bonus but not necessary.

- Being Canadian - important in an ideal world. Imo. If we had a coach with the experience, success and attributes needed. However we simply don't have that so really not necessary.

- Experience and success coaching at multiple levels including the international stage = very important 

- Charisma and the ability to inspire = absolutely essential 

We aren't just inspiring players with this appointment. We need to inspire a country of potential fans and future players and coaches.  

The last point although obvious is so huge. Look at Rafa Benitez at Newcastle. The right personality and calibre of coach can unite a nation and turn disaster into a positive momentum. Results aside there the class and link to the fanbase and community that has been missing since 2004 has been restored in a matter of months.  Little things like being a great communicator, obviously on the training ground, but in interviews and P.R. opportunities is immeasurably imperative. Coaches of class and experience don't come cheap, but what price does the CSA put on the future of soccer in this country.

Experience of being in or helping set up a successful national soccer program is what we need imo for other canadian coaches to be around and learn from to take over in the future. 

[nolbertos]

I named the list of CONCACAF candidates in that Floro thread and Honduras coach Jose Luis Pinto is my preferred.  Sorry but no Canadian is good enough to be coach, might as well hire another King of Donair type coach.  I thought about Robbo, but I think he's very green and has got a lot to learn.

[Joe MacCarthy]

1 hour ago, nolbertos said:

Sorry but no Canadian is good enough to be coach, might as well hire another King of Donair type coach.

Except the King of Donair guy is in the hex isn't he.  I am so sick of the Canadian coach hate here.  We just had a guy with a pedigree we won't likely see again, did he get the job done?

I've said it as long as the Voyageurs have existed, we need a made in Canada solution or we'll always be one step behind trying some other guy's second hand goods.  Jason DeVos seems to agree with this.

Stephen Hart nominated for CONCACAF Coach of the Year
Jan 12, 2016

[nolbertos]

31 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Except the King of Donair guy is in the hex isn't he.  I am so sick of the Canadian coach hate here.  We just had a guy with a pedigree we won't likely see again, did he get the job done?

I've said it as long as the Voyageurs have existed, we need a made in Canada solution or we'll always be one step behind trying some other guy's second hand goods.  Jason DeVos seems to agree with this.

Stephen Hart nominated for CONCACAF Coach of the Year
Jan 12, 2016

For the record, I was never a Benito Floro fan even when he got hired.  He managed Real Madrid, which impressed a lot of naive Canadian fans, but that was eons ago.  His lack of confidence is the Canadian national team player and making us play turtle, turtle didn't really benefit Canada long term.  We're a side that historically have defended well, but offensively have scratched our heads on how to be flourish, play a 1-2-3 tic tac toe passing and being more offensive minded when it counted.  I'd say Floro was a waste of time.  There were warning bells early in his role here, but we kept him.  Any Canadian coach that steps in are more of the same mould of being defensive and not proving to be successful as managers in foreign leagues.  I'd say it's time to try something different and radical to shake out belief and philosophy of being one dimensional.  Try a Latin American approach from people who have achieved success like Pinto.

[toontownman]

35 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Except the King of Donair guy is in the hex isn't he.  I am so sick of the Canadian coach hate here.  We just had a guy with a pedigree we won't likely see again, did he get the job done?

I've said it as long as the Voyageurs have existed, we need a made in Canada solution or we'll always be one step behind trying some other guy's second hand goods.  Jason DeVos seems to agree with this.

Stephen Hart nominated for CONCACAF Coach of the Year
Jan 12, 2016

What pedigree did floro have really? Very brief club success over two decades ago.  No international experience, did manage in Mexico, without success.  He was the equivalent to Joe effing kinnear at Newcastle. "I guess he has managed some big clubs at a decent standard." Bargain bin dipping and I was happy to give him the benefit of doubt but really not as impressive an appointment as it was dressed up to be. 

[matty]

4 hours ago, jpg75 said:

The fact that anybody, let alone multiple people consider these names as "popular" makes me seriously question what the hell i am doing here. Like honestly, who the fuck cares if Carl Robinson is available? 

Popular doesn't mean good. They are merely names that have been thrown around a lot more than others. I'm with you especially when it comes to dos Santos. He's not right but he's a popular name right now.

4 hours ago, jpg75 said:

Here's a list of affordable coaches with CONCACAF experience:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinaldo_Rueda

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandre_Guimarães

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francisco_Maturana

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubén_Israel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Roca

While I think a Latin coach would be interesting, I think someone who's worked as a coach in MLS would be preferable. I kind of want to avoid any language issues as well unless we're dealing with a Liga MX coach.

2 hours ago, nolbertos said:

I named the list of CONCACAF candidates in that Floro thread and Honduras coach Jose Luis Pinto is my preferred.  Sorry but no Canadian is good enough to be coach, might as well hire another King of Donair type coach.  I thought about Robbo, but I think he's very green and has got a lot to learn.

That's the same reason I'm iffy on Robbo. I actually think I would take an American MLS coach with similar coaching experience over him, on the condition that the American has experience with the USMNT playing against Latin teams. I largely agree about Canadians. 

[Joe MacCarthy]

52 minutes ago, toontownman said:

What pedigree did floro have really?

C'mon, seriously?

The former Real Madrid boss has revealed that he came close to taking the Roja job prior to Luis Aragones' appointment in 2004
Khalis Rifhan Goal.com EXCLUSIVE Feb 28, 2013

Former Real Madrid boss Benito Flores has revealed that he came close to becoming Spain coach in the wake of Euro 2004.

Luis Aragones eventually took the post vacated by Inaki Saez, who had recommended the 60-year-old for the post upon taking up a role with the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF).

“After the European Championship in Portugal, the coach [Saez] resigned and he became director of football, and he recommended [to the RFEF] that I became the new head coach of Spain," he told Goal.com.

“He recommended me due to my vision of the game and [how] my playing style fit in well with the way the youth teams were being prepared, which was the main reason for the massive success of the Spanish national team.

“But unfortunately, due to circumstances that were beyond my control at that time, it was not possible.”
 

[Joe MacCarthy]

54 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

Any Canadian coach that steps in are more of the same mould of being defensive and not proving to be successful as managers in foreign leagues. 

And how do you know this aside from your assigning some stereotype for any Canadian who might apply.

[SuperCanuck]

7 hours ago, matty said:

Because the other thead about Floro name hints that it's more about bashing Floro than who should replace him (which many might already be over so they won't click the thread), I figured I'd start one solely going over who should replace him and how soon. Sort of a place we can go over what kind of coach we'd like to see take over (experience, style, ect.) and other key factors like when they should hire by. Debate is encouraged.

Some things of note

There have been a few lists published that I know of (including mine)

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/10/04/squizzato-short-list-canadian-national-team-head-coaching-candidates - focused on current fan chatter

http://www.rednationonline.ca/Articles2016/WhoShouldReplaceFloroAList.aspx - focused on media opinions

and an interesting opinion piece by Terry Dunfield http://www.tsn.ca/inside-floro-s-tenure-with-the-canadian-men-s-team-1.567511

Popular figures so far
Marc dos Santos (maybe not available)
Carl Robinson (maybe not available)
Nick Dasovic
Sigi Schmid
Bob Bradley
Bruce Arena
Jesse Marsch

Marc dos Santos:  If he's the best who's willing and able, sure.

Carl Robinson:  Maybe not available?  If he's not available, there's something really wrong with decision making at the top in the Whitecaps' front office.  If we'd like more of the same (unfathomable subs and starting XI), um, ok

Nick Dasovic:  My pick of this list.  All 'round good egg, too.

Stinky Schmid:  NO!

Bob Bradley:  um, nah

Bruce Arena:  Would never take the job I'm sure, so I don't have to put in my two cents.

Jesse Marsh:  um, nah 2

 

 

[Joe MacCarthy]

9 minutes ago, SuperCanuck said:

Bruce Arena:  Would never take the job I'm sure, so I don't have to put in my two cents.

Just to clarify my position, it`s not that i am saying we have to hire a Canadian, Although i think that would be preferable for long term growth, what I am against is the bias (for no good reason against a Canadian) assuming they all have the same philosophy and are all the same.  I call BS on that

I always thought Bruce Arena would be an interesting choice because he was such a cocky bugger and I thought he could instill a lot of confidence but I haven`t been following his career and i don`t know if he is now past it or what.

Arena also likely wouldn`t fit my ideal for what we really need as a coach.  What we need is a Jack Donohue type to come in and be the "Father" of Canadian soccer. If it's just a foreign coach airlift to appease the "Eurofans" who think Canadians aren't capable it could end in disaster like La Morace.

The successful person will be the one to change the whole development system, men, women and coaches. For him to be successful in my eyes is not to get us to the WC necessarily but to help develop a string of Canadian coaches to pass world class knowledge to the generations to come and perpetuate the cycle.

[toontownman]

53 minutes ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

C'mon, seriously?

The former Real Madrid boss has revealed that he came close to taking the Roja job prior to Luis Aragones' appointment in 2004
Khalis Rifhan Goal.com EXCLUSIVE Feb 28, 2013

Former Real Madrid boss Benito Flores has revealed that he came close to becoming Spain coach in the wake of Euro 2004.

Luis Aragones eventually took the post vacated by Inaki Saez, who had recommended the 60-year-old for the post upon taking up a role with the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF).

“After the European Championship in Portugal, the coach [Saez] resigned and he became director of football, and he recommended [to the RFEF] that I became the new head coach of Spain," he told Goal.com.

“He recommended me due to my vision of the game and [how] my playing style fit in well with the way the youth teams were being prepared, which was the main reason for the massive success of the Spanish national team.

“But unfortunately, due to circumstances that were beyond my control at that time, it was not possible.”
 

A coach talking about how great he is and how a buddy recommended him for a job that the hiring team didn't think he was good enough for? Plus it's on goal.com. 

I'm not hiding that fact Floro was a step up in experience his predecessors but pedigree to suggest he would become a top manager nearly 10 years out of work in a country where he hasn't worked and doesn't really speak the language of? 

Experienced certainly, experienced in success? Certainly not. Not in the modern game, not in two decades.  

His last three jobs prior to Canada were failures mostly lasting from 3-9 months.

On the face of it, Floros appointment was a cheap gamble on a recommendation from a friend's/contact circle as is lots of employment scenarios. Why the hell else would you hire someone that has work 4 years in the precious 10 and failed in each job. 

I'd rather stick with a Canadian that has a passion for this country and knows the set up than her another Floro. Neither will likely bring us success.  

When I talk pedigree I want someone that is relevant, innovative has experience success within the past 20 years and can inspire. Again it's not easy to find that person, especially with a cheque book glued shut but this is a great country with great potential.  

Don't accept mediocrity if you don't have to CSA.

[FC_Hali]

I think we need a young, North American coach that can build around our young core. A coach that encourages attacking football and can connect with our players. Of the realistic options out there, here would be my choices in this order:

1.  Tab Ramos
2. Mike Petke
3. Robin Fraser

[matty]

5 hours ago, FC_Hali said:

I think we need a young, North American coach that can build around our young core. A coach that encourages attacking football and can connect with our players. Of the realistic options out there, here would be my choices in this order:

1.  Tab Ramos
2. Mike Petke
3. Robin Fraser

I've been thinking, with the exception of Sigi, a younger coach with MLS head coaching experience would be a good option. Petke is a guy I'm actually surprised hasn't returned to MLS yet because in his short time he was able prove himself as a very capable coach, of your 3 I'd place him at #1 despite a lack of CONCACAF experience as a player and relative greenness. Ramos has a good amount of coaching experience when it comes to CONCACAF, which I like, but wish he had experience as a head coach with a senior team. Fraser I don't think is up to the task.

You could add Frank Klopas to the list I think (50, good amount of coaching experience, USMNT background) but you'll likely piss of a lot of people here. Kinnear and Kreis also fit what I think most are looking for but currently are not available.

[rob.notenboom]

17 hours ago, jpg75 said:

You did Tommy, you did.

Would you like some sugar, jpg?

[Joe MacCarthy]

Surprised this usual suspect hasn't been mentioned yet.

Melbourne City coach John van’t Schip indicates he will leave club after next season
DAVID DAVUTOVIC, Herald Sun May 10, 2016

[matty]

1 hour ago, Joe MacCarthy said:

Surprised this usual suspect hasn't been mentioned yet.

Melbourne City coach John van’t Schip indicates he will leave club after next season
DAVID DAVUTOVIC, Herald Sun May 10, 2016

I thought about him as a domestic option but decided he isn't really. If he's willing to come sure talk to him but he's lacking what I would consider a lot of key things Canada should be seeking in a coach.

Also I think by home he means the Netherlands