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Summer 2016 Transfers

Ruffian

By Ruffian
in Men's National Teams

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shermanator Experienced

shermanator

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This article by Weber not only mentions the likelihood of Edgar and de Jong signing with Whitecaps, but also of rumblings that Adekugbe and / or Froese being loaned somewhere in Europe for the remainder of the season (ala Hurtado).

http://theprovince.com/sports/soccer/mls/vancouver-whitecaps/marc-weber-whitecaps-could-be-busy-during-mls-transfer-window?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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48 minutes ago, dsqpr said:

QPR are almost ready to accept that Junior Hoilett will not be returning.

Hoilett, whose contract recently expired, was made a ‘take-it-or-leave-it’ offer by the club two weeks ago and Rangers have not heard from him since.

“We have offered Junior a very good deal and the ball is in court,” said manager Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, who was keen for the Canadian to stay stay.

...

http://www.westlondonsport.com/qpr/qpr-junior-hoilett-latest-news-04072016

I get the feeling Hoilett will not sign with Swansea. it's been reported that they have just signed his QPR teammate Leory Fer. I'd be surprised if Swansea now went for a second QPR swoop, given that QPR sound like they really want to retain Junior. 

Maybe Brussia Monchengladbach will be back on the table (or Besiktas)?

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BradMack Enthusiast

BradMack

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Saw an article the other day talking about Brendan Rogers bringing Junior in to Celtic. I think it was more of a suggestion to Rogers than anything... but if he doesn't sign in the Prem, I wouldn't mind him going to Celtic. 

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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18 minutes ago, BradMack said:

Saw an article the other day talking about Brendan Rogers bringing Junior in to Celtic. I think it was more of a suggestion to Rogers than anything... but if he doesn't sign in the Prem, I wouldn't mind him going to Celtic. 

Same, I have even dreamed up the scenario recently and pondered what sort of fit he'd be. Personally, I think Junior to Celtic would be a very very good move. He gets to remain in Britain which is likely a plus for him. Moreover, he gets to enjoy the annual crack at Champions League football, which would be an exciting new experience for him. Finally, Celtic is a big fish in a small pond, which I think would provide a relatively young attacker like Junior to really make a name for himself both in the UK and possibly on the continent.

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BradMack Enthusiast

BradMack

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1 hour ago, Obinna said:

Same, I have even dreamed up the scenario recently and pondered what sort of fit he'd be. Personally, I think Junior to Celtic would be a very very good move. He gets to remain in Britain which is likely a plus for him. Moreover, he gets to enjoy the annual crack at Champions League football, which would be an exciting new experience for him. Finally, Celtic is a big fish in a small pond, which I think would provide a relatively young attacker like Junior to really make a name for himself both in the UK and possibly on the continent.

Junior is apparently a confidence player, so playing in Scotland with the best team in the league by far, should allow him to score goals more often and come into camp for Canada full of confidence. That's really the most important thing for me. But again, doesn't seem like theres anything to this.

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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1 hour ago, dsqpr said:

His last transfer saw him go from  Championship (2nd tier) club Blackburn to Premier League QPR. It was certainly on a substantial contract but how was that at the expense of his football? He had played in the Premier League the previous season with relegated Blackburn so he would have justifiably seen himself as a Premier League player. And I don't remember any better offers (from a purely football perspective) coming his way at the time.

Edit: Also, my guess is that he is currently looking for the biggest contract he can get, wherever it may be! And I don't blame him - he is no longer a youngster and needs to make the best deals he can now. And I doubt that will be in Scotland where they are somewhat, ahem, parsimonious!

Galatasaray and Broussia Monchengladbach were both interested after his Blackburn deal expired. According to this article, the German club made an offer that was too low, while it is not clear whether or not Gala actually made an offer. 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/blackburn-contract-rebel-junior-hoilett-871740

Regardless, it appears that at least one club offered him a contract which he rejected due to money. In the end we know he accepted a substantial offer from QPR instead.

I characterize that rendition of QPR as a club with rich, new ownership that was free spending and tossing their money around at the best their money could buy or sign, rather than making prudent, pragmatic transfers that made sense. There was little regard for whether or not their signings made sense and no regards for chemistry the way they brought in so many players all at once. That was my opinion back then and it's my opinion today.

Predictably, that ship sank while Brussia Monchenglandbach's rose, as they went on to qualify for Europa League and Champions League football. They did it without spending their way their way to the top; that is the mark of a good club and good environment to develop your football. For that reason I say his QPR move was driven by money not football.

Even Manchester City kept the reins on spending by slowly upgrading until they reached a critical mass. QPR brought in Jose Bosingwa from Chelsea, Jermaine Jenas from Spurs, Julio Cesear from Inter Milan, Christopher Samba from Anzhi, Park Ji-Sung from Manchester United, Mbia from Olympic Marseille ALL IN THE SAME WINDOW they brought Junior in. That's a major overhaul so no surprise they were unsuccessful. I'm sure I wasn't the only won who saw that impending disaster coming.

Anyways, I hope that answers your question of why it was at the expense of his football. Given that Broussia Monchengladbach was a very attractive place to develop for a young and upcoming footballer back then, it was either fool hardy on his part to think QPR would be a more attractive place to grow as a player, or he just went for the money. Considering that article states the offer was too low, I suspect it was the latter. 

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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14 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Exactly. But he would have done without that transfer as Blackburn had been relegated. He transferred to QPR to continue playing in the Premier League. I don't see why you think that transfer was somehow "at the expense of his football". Quite the opposite I'd say (with the benefit of hindsight we can see that it did not play out well for him but at the time it looked like a good move for him from a football standpoint).

No that's not an accurate statement because it disregards the fact that Monchengladbach were ready to pick him up but he turned them down. It wasn't QPR or the Championship with Blackburn.

Again, it was at the expense of his football because although QPR allowed him to stay in the Premier League, it really wasn't an ideal environment for a young player especially in comparison to Broussia Monchengladbach, which would have given him top level football in a much more stable environment. That is not hindsight either. As soon as I saw he signed with QPR I knew it would be a mistake before he even kicked a ball there. Their project had failure written all over it. To boot, he chose the offer that gave him the most money, which I don't blame him for but surely I can't sit here and tell myself that QPR was a better option from a football perspective just because they were in the Premier League. Perhaps Junior was really sold on the QPR offer and the chance to play with some really big name players for the first time, but seeing as they offered him a huge contract, I am skeptical towards the idea that money had little influence. 

Perhaps I should ask you the question: why you think it was a good move from a football perspective?

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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4 hours ago, dsqpr said:

Oh come on! You knew that signing for QPR would be a big mistake did you? This isn't about you!

As I said in my first response, I don't remember any other offers being on the table at the time (edit: just saw your earlier post (!) and the Mirror article you linked does NOT say that an offer was made by BM, only that they had given an idea of what they would be willing to pay, but that is a minor point) and I still don't - having discussions with a team is not the same as a concrete offer!

But for the sake of argument let us suppose he had an offer from Borussia M. and he chose Premier League with QPR over Bundesliga with Borussia M. I still don't see how you can say that would have been at the expense of his football. Granted Borussia M. are established while QPR were newly promoted but many promoted teams go on to do very well (look at Swansea and Southampton) and QPR had made it very clear they were prepared to financially back the team (unlike Derby and Burnley in recent years). Furthermore, established teams have established first team squads so he would likely have thought his chances of first team football at QPR were higher than at Borussia M. Put it all together and at the time the move from Championship Blackburn to Premier League QPR looked like a good one for his football.

Perhaps you could lend him your crystal ball so he can make a better choice this time!

Crystal ball... Now that made me laugh :lol:

In all seriousness though, of course nobody can predict the future, but in all honesty I really felt it was a poor move at the time. I was hopeful that my gut was wrong but unfortunately it was not. 

Speaking of Swansea though, I recall they played QPR in the first game of the season. I remember watching it because Hoilett was starting for QPR and Jonathan de Guzman was starting for the Swans. The Welsh side won on the day and looked so much better than the disjointed mess that was Queens Park Rangers. It was a 5-0 demolition, actually. 

Why did Swansea have success? They made shrewd purchases and intelligent loan signings that made sense. They brought in Pablo Hernandez from Valencia and Michu from Real Vallecano, as well as Chico Flores from Genoa. All relatively low profile but all were Spaniards with great technical ability that allowed Swansea to play some beautiful football. Although not a Spaniard, Jonathan de Guzman came in from Villarreal on loan and was a natural fit with these other new recruits. Swansea actually had an identity and style because the players they brought in fit with one another. 

Contrast that to QPR's transfer "strategy". As I said before, you have Park Ji Sung from Manchester United, Jose Bosingwa from Chelsea, Jermaine Jenas from Spurs and Christopher Samba from Anzhi in Russia, Mbia from Marseille, Loic Remy from Marseille, Andy Johnson from Fulham, Ryan Nelsen from Spurs......and the list goes on and on. That is an insane project to carve an identity and build chemistry with so many recruits. Hell, even if they were all Spaniards or all French or mostly came from clubs that played in similar fashion, it would STILL be tough to gel such a new group.  

For the sake of argument regarding your points - yes many new teams that promote do very well but it tends to be those that build smartly (Swansea), not toss money around at the hottest commodities available (QPR). By the way, neither Swansea nor QPR were newly promoted the year Junior joined as you say. 

Your other argument that "established teams are harder to break into and thus Hoilett fancied his chances more at QPR" is not very solid either, because I can also make the counter argument "it's more difficult to break into a team of stars with big reputations than it is to break into a team with lower profile players". It is just a difference in perspective.

In any case I don't think either was true, I just think he was just lured by the money and the prospect of joining the "new Manchester City", but as I said several times now, not even City attempted such a drastic overhaul in 1 season. 

Also, just because myself (and certainly many others) could see that QPR were building things in the wrong way doesn't mean anything, because yes this is not about me (as you say), it's about Junior. At least I made a case for why it wasn't the most ideal environment for a young player to put himself into. I'm still waiting for you to make the case of why it was a good decision to join with them (ignoring the money, of course). 

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Obinna Grand Master

Obinna

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1 minute ago, dsqpr said:

Well, I think we've debated this to death!

Playing in the Premier League is the dream of many young aspiring footballers, practically all British ones and many non-British ones besides. It seems crazy to me to say that Hoilett somehow sacrificed his football to make that choice!

I'll give you the final word...

I think so!

And yes "sacrificed his football" is a bit of an extreme stance. I'll close with a softer tone by saying I think his decision to join QPR was an attempt to stay in the Premier League and cash in at the same time. In the same breath, I think joining such a project was a calculated risk, while the safe play would have perhaps been to leave for the Bundesliga (assuming there was an a "concrete" offer).

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gator Grand Master

gator

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An interesting debate, I will simplify his reason for joining QPR:  $$$, that's it! His agent, Senior Hoilett got him the best deal available, Marc Bircham may have some influence on him choosing QPR, I doubt it though!

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Ruffian Mentor

Ruffian

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West Ham transfer for Atiba still seems to be a possiblility

http://talksport.com/football/west-ham-table-bid-besiktas-midfielder-atiba-hutchinson-160708202398?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

"I am going to have talks with Atiba Hutchinson," said Besiktas chief Fikret Orman.

"He has said he wants to move to England. West Ham made a £3million offer but we want more for him.

"As I said we will decide his future after we hold talks."

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dyslexic nam Grand Master

dyslexic nam

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I tend to take a fairly unsophisticated view of some of these transfers.  With something like the Hutch to West Ham rumblings, I get that he may not be playing CL footy next year, but I would love to see him on a much more regular basis as I watch the EPL.  And with Edgar to the Caps, I am just excited that I will get to watch one of our talented Nats ply his trade in MLS.  He will improve the Caps on the field and increase the 'local content' of one of our 3 Canadian teams.  That is a win-win for me.

 

MLS might not be the best league in the world, but lots of CONCACAF countries base their national teams on a strong core of domestic players who may not play in the biggest leagues but who do well locally.  So, while it would be nice if we had a full squad of guys based in the EPL, Serie A, La Liga and Bundesliga, I will happily welcome home our Nats to help continue the growth of the game here in Canada. 

 

Congrats to Edgar and the Caps. 

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