matty Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm bored so question: would you rather TLN or BeIN be the channel to carry the CPL? Pros BeIN would make the league look good by association being included with all the super leagues they broadcast and will likely get it shown in bars TLN is in 5 million homes and would likely be able to show every game. Also provides an in with the Canadian Latin community Cons BeIN isn't that popular so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL, costs a lot to order ($16 a month on Bell) so casual viewers might not want to order it for CPL and might not be able to show every game TLN, despite recent efforts to go mainstream, is still viewed as that late night porn channel by most and is focused on Latin programming so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL. Also bars are unlikely to put on TLN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder01 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 3 hours ago, Gopherbashi said: I try to piece it together from photos sometimes; their livestream videos don't tend to show the crowd side of the field, and no one likes going to London to shoot photos apparently. Not that the photos are conclusive. You get ones like this, which show a packed crowd: And then ones like this, which show a decent density but certainly nothing like a 4-digit turnout: If this is the Conference Final game against Sigma, I was there. There were nowhere near 2000 people. Not remotely close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grasshopper1917 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, matty said: I'm bored so question: would you rather TLN or BeIN be the channel to carry the CPL? Pros BeIN would make the league look good by association being included with all the super leagues they broadcast and will likely get it shown in bars TLN is in 5 million homes and would likely be able to show every game. Also provides an in with the Canadian Latin community Cons BeIN isn't that popular so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL, costs a lot to order ($16 a month on Bell) so casual viewers might not want to order it for CPL and might not be able to show every game TLN, despite recent efforts to go mainstream, is still viewed as that late night porn channel by most and is focused on Latin programming so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL. Also bars are unlikely to put on TLN Never heard of either station - really would be a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Many dedicated soccer fans have BEIN. Having it on BEIN will attract some of them. Their pre/post game shows are pretty good and need to fill the void of NASL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said: Never heard of either station - really would be a waste of time. Do u live under a rock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuillermoDelQuarto Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 27 minutes ago, canta15 said: Do u live under a rock? lol he's fairly new but to be fair it does illustrate the point that TSN, CBC or SN would be ideal. Hopefully they'll manage to get a weekly matchup on one of those stations at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rintaran Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, matty said: I'm bored so question: would you rather TLN or BeIN be the channel to carry the CPL? Pros BeIN would make the league look good by association being included with all the super leagues they broadcast and will likely get it shown in bars TLN is in 5 million homes and would likely be able to show every game. Also provides an in with the Canadian Latin community Cons BeIN isn't that popular so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL, costs a lot to order ($16 a month on Bell) so casual viewers might not want to order it for CPL and might not be able to show every game TLN, despite recent efforts to go mainstream, is still viewed as that late night porn channel by most and is focused on Latin programming so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL. Also bars are unlikely to put on TLN Either station would be good, though I think I'd prefer BeIN. However, it definitely needs to be available via an online platform without needing a cable package. Even though it was crappy quality, I happily paid for NASL live because I was able to watch the team without signing up for a gazillion channels for 3-years. I know we're probably going to be stuck with cable & a specialty sports package, but I would really like to be able to subscribe to a single online streaming channel instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauder01 Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rintaran said: Either station would be good, though I think I'd prefer BeIN. However, it definitely needs to be available via an online platform without needing a cable package. Even though it was crappy quality, I happily paid for NASL live because I was able to watch the team without signing up for a gazillion channels for 3-years. I know we're probably going to be stuck with cable & a specialty sports package, but I would really like to be able to subscribe to a single online streaming channel instead. Rintaran, you're talking a lot of sense here. I wouldn't rule out online subscriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 44 minutes ago, grasshopper1917 said: Never heard of either station - really would be a waste of time. TLN is Telelatino. It's a Canadian Latin cultural channel focused on appealing to Canada's Latinx, Spanish, Italian and Portuguese communities. Historically it was known for telenovelas and softcore porn but more recently has pushed for a lot more mainstream stuff from El Ray and Univision and travel and cooking shows. It also has shown Canadian Men's National Team games, Liga MX and Serie A. BeIN Sports is high quality sports channel run by partly by the media powerhouse that is Al Jazeea. It has exclusive rights to La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga, the Championship and Belgium and Brazil's leagues and also shows a ton of auto racing and rugby. 15 minutes ago, Rintaran said: Either station would be good, though I think I'd prefer BeIN. However, it definitely needs to be available via an online platform without needing a cable package. Even though it was crappy quality, I happily paid for NASL live because I was able to watch the team without signing up for a gazillion channels for 3-years. I know we're probably going to be stuck with cable & a specialty sports package, but I would really like to be able to subscribe to a single online streaming channel instead. I'd prefer TLN for the reach it has but I think if BeIN took it the league would get a new level of legitimacy that TLN can't give it currently. Regarding online streaming, it's a must but needs to be done right. I wouldn't be shocked if for the first few years, they test some kind of online or/and mobile service with season ticket holders and official supporter clubs to create a decent service. 20 minutes ago, marauder01 said: Rintaran, you're talking a lot of sense here. I wouldn't rule out online subscriptions. I would as the main source of broadcasting simply because TV = way more money. TV is taking esports, aka the sport that mastered streaming and makes more money at it than anyone else, into the billions. Online subs are nice but TV is best for business. The combo is perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Levi Oakey said: ....They did post averages of about 2000 during their early field travelling PDL days though. So it isn't beyond FC London, more so just their current stadium. Think it was more in the 1500 range and they were also playing at the Marconi and Portuguese Clubs at that point, but you have to bear in mind that youth club freebies don't cut it financially in the long run, so announced numbers don't tell the full story. The 1500 to 2000 has to be paid attendance, if the finances to actually pay players are going to be generated. Agree that a crowd of 2000 at the German Club as it is currently configured is extremely far-fetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimliJetsMan Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Yeah, photos tell you nothing. I took photos for a game with 350 max and the photos look like more than that. Considering it was the Winkler Storm playing in like 2nd or 3rd division Manitoba soccer, it was an awesome crowd. Flares and everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 15 hours ago, Complete Homer said: I believe BBTB is referring to the Aaron Cambell tweet, but that only said VWC is considering selling their USL side. Somewhere along the way the idea that it was to a Calgary group got into the mix, but from what I can tell that has no actual source behind it The source was Aaron Campbell in a later follow up tweet: and an earlier one: and this pinned poll is on the twitter of AFTN that he is associated with: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 10 hours ago, matty said: I'm bored so question: would you rather TLN or BeIN be the channel to carry the CPL? Pros BeIN would make the league look good by association being included with all the super leagues they broadcast and will likely get it shown in bars TLN is in 5 million homes and would likely be able to show every game. Also provides an in with the Canadian Latin community Cons BeIN isn't that popular so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL, costs a lot to order ($16 a month on Bell) so casual viewers might not want to order it for CPL and might not be able to show every game TLN, despite recent efforts to go mainstream, is still viewed as that late night porn channel by most and is focused on Latin programming so casual viewers might not be aware of it carrying the CPL. Also bars are unlikely to put on TLN I think you need to go with one of the mainstream channels - CBC, TSN, or SN. Going with something that hits a limited audience (latino-targeting) or a specialty subscription channel (BeIN) when a broader platform is available would disadvantage the league right off the bat. If at all possible, it needs mainstream exposure to establish an identity, engage the casual fan, and generate revenue. Only the last one would be accomplished with a somewhat niche channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, dyslexic nam said: I think you need to go with one of the mainstream channels - CBC, TSN, or SN. Going with something that hits a limited audience (latino-targeting) or a specialty subscription channel (BeIN) when a broader platform is available would disadvantage the league right off the bat. If at all possible, it needs mainstream exposure to establish an identity, engage the casual fan, and generate revenue. Only the last one would be accomplished with a somewhat niche channel. Oh I agree TSN, CBC or SN is preferred but I do wonder about TLN and BeIN and think one will be involved if none of the more mainstream channels wants CPL or can't carry every game (which I think is needed). I'm just checking which of these two minorish channels folks would prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 TSN just locked up rights to MLS for the next five years so I wouldn't count on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 7 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: TSN just locked up rights to MLS for the next five years so I wouldn't count on them. i thought it was 3? but yea i'm thinking it's cbc or one of the "b-channels" now. sportsnet could but i doubt it unless rogers makes deal to get a mlse team in the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 31 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: TSN just locked up rights to MLS for the next five years so I wouldn't count on them. It's unlikely that CPL would air their matches at the same time/timeslot as MLS...hopefully. Neither league can afford splitting the audience while sport channels are in dire need of content, especially in the summer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 7 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Think it was more in the 1500 range and they were also playing at the Marconi and Portuguese Clubs at that point, but you have to bear in mind that youth club freebies don't cut it financially in the long run, so announced numbers don't tell the full story. The 1500 to 2000 has to be paid attendance, if the finances to actually pay players are going to be generated. Agree that a crowd of 2000 at the German Club as it is currently configured is extremely far-fetched. If there's one lesson that that CanPL teams better take from the old CSL of the late 80s & early 90s (actually they could take this lesson from almost any startup ever including many of the newer NASL and USL teams) it is don't paper the house. Make the tickets worth something and stick to it. That doesn't mean you can't offer incentives to clubs and groups, etc but the more you devalue your product in the market the more difficult it becomes to get anyone to bother paying for a ticket. After some sit-down interviews and conversations with people who were involved with some of the old CSL teams, some of their financial approaches and results were pretty shocking, and at the core of many of those approaches was the idea that if you could put a lot of butts in seats it would attract more paying customers due to the attraction of the scene/atmosphere. Ultimately, I think that was a failed experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 ^ Edit: Certainly there are more lessons to be learned than just that lesson. However, that lesson is pretty critical IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 minute ago, rob.notenboom said: If there's one lesson that that CanPL teams better take from the old CSL of the late 80s & early 90s (actually they could take this lesson from almost any startup ever including many of the newer NASL and USL teams) it is don't paper the house. Make the tickets worth something and stick to it. That doesn't mean you can't offer incentives to clubs and groups, etc but the more you devalue your product in the market the more difficult it becomes to get anyone to bother paying for a ticket. After some sit-down interviews and conversations with people who were involved with some of the old CSL teams, some of their financial approaches and results were pretty shocking, and at the core of many of those approaches was the idea that if you could put a lot of butts in seats it would attract more paying customers due to the attraction of the scene/atmosphere. Ultimately, I think that was a failed experiment. It may not be a great strategy, but is FCE doing any better with the opposite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 4 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said: ^ Edit: Certainly there are more lessons to be learned than just that lesson. However, that lesson is pretty critical IMHO. Agree on that. The Winnipeg Fury were probably the poster child on failed ticket giveaway promotions. Beyond freebies, outright inflation (some might say fabrication) of crowd numbers was also rife. From what I have heard over the years, the 1990 London Lasers were honest in their crowd counts and thought they were doing really badly compared to everybody else when announcing crowds of only a few hundred, but after having been once around the league for away games they realized the announced numbers elsewhere were often way too high and three digit crowds were nothing out of the ordinary (something I witnessed first hand in Toronto at CSL games, especially with the North York Rockets where if anything crowds were in two digits when I watched them, but that's not what you will hear about when Anthony Totera is reminiscing about the league in podcasts). The problem for the Lasers was that they had used the inflated announced numbers from elsewhere when deciding what was a realistic budget and felt they had been duped by Dale Barnes and co. If as appears to be the case, L1O people are exagerating crowds in London, it's nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Gopherbashi said: It may not be a great strategy, but is FCE doing any better with the opposite? They have not being doing particularly well attendance-wise, but their situation is very muddled by an absolute ton of extenuating circumstances, not the least of which is ownership that started with absolutely zero sports management/ownership experience. This is not to throw shade at the the Fath's, only to recognize what they themselves have said ... that they made many mistakes because they were building the plane while flying it. They have had some partnerships with clubs where clubs attended, received discounted tickets, and got some financial benefits, but there was initially a ton of animosity between FCE and the greater Edmonton soccer community (it's a long story) so that has really hampered their attendance. However, it sounds like they might be starting to turn the corner as they have already set a season ticket sales record (admittedly it's a low bar) and they had reached that point sometime in December, so things are looking up a bit on that front. Hard to predict for sure, but FCE might end up being the perfect model for CanPL ... a committed ownership group that is willing to stick with it despite the odds and financial losses, learn from their mistakes, and eventually (hopefully) start getting solid crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Agree on that. The Winnipeg Fury were probably the poster child on failed ticket giveaway promotions. Beyond freebies, outright inflation (some might say fabrication) of crowd numbers was also rife. From what I have heard over the years, the 1990 London Lasers were honest in their crowd counts and thought they were doing really badly compared to everybody else when announcing crowds of only a few hundred, but after having been once around the league for away games they realized the announced numbers elsewhere were often way too high and three digit crowds were nothing out of the ordinary (something I witnessed first hand in Toronto at CSL games, especially with the North York Rockets where if anything crowds were in two digits when I watched them, but that's not what you will hear about when Anthony Totera is reminiscing about the league in podcasts). The problem for the Lasers was that they had used the inflated announced numbers from elsewhere when deciding what was a realistic budget and felt they had been duped by Dale Barnes and co. If as appears to be the case, L1O people are exagerating crowds in London, it's nothing new. I've got some great (hilarious and depressing in equal measures) stories from various people who were involved with the Winnipeg Fury, and you are exactly right by saying their level of freebee tickets was passive and ultimately catastrophic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shermanator Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, rob.notenboom said: They have not being doing particularly well attendance-wise, but their situation is very muddled by an absolute ton of extenuating circumstances, not the least of which is ownership that started with absolutely zero sports management/ownership experience. This is not to throw shade at the the Fath's, only to recognize what they themselves have said ... that they made many mistakes because they were building the plane while flying it. They have had some partnerships with clubs where clubs attended, received discounted tickets, and got some financial benefits, but there was initially a ton of animosity between FCE and the greater Edmonton soccer community (it's a long story) so that has really hampered their attendance. However, it sounds like they might be starting to turn the corner as they have already set a season ticket sales record (admittedly it's a low bar) and they had reached that point sometime in December, so things are looking up a bit on that front. Hard to predict for sure, but FCE might end up being the perfect model for CanPL ... a committed ownership group that is willing to stick with it despite the odds and financial losses, learn from their mistakes, and eventually (hopefully) start getting solid crowds. Yup, looks like FC Edmonton may actually be turning the corner. IIRC they were no longer giving out free tickets once Jay Ball became GM, which is probably a large factor in the 34% drop in attendance from 2015 to 2016 (along a terrible economic climate). Based on this article they've doubled their season ticket count already, and winning has really helped that. Also, I think the fact that the club opened a pop up shop at the South Soccer Centre was a long overdue move that is resulting in actual ticket sales. http://www.edmontonsun.com/2017/01/07/fc-edmonton-back-in-business-with-nasl-designation Wonder what the actual number of season tickets is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 45 minutes ago, shermanator said: Wonder what the actual number of season tickets is? The answer is 42 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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