Garber hints at change to 'Canadians as internationals' rule.

[Ansem]

8 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

If that is the official FIFA stature, and the USSF would then also suffer for daring to try and keep the Canadian MLS teams around and skirt the CSA, and FIFA actually enforces that stature and not stepping in themselves saying "Oh well these are exceptional circumstances" then you are right, I am vastly understating the threat. I wasn't aware the CSA had the authority to say "Nope, you can't play down south at all, lest you be CSL exiled by FIFA"

Regardless though, we still get back to the point of it being an empty threat. If Vic dropped that bomb without a place for MLS teams to go, he will effectively salt the earth in his three largest markets for soccer, because I don't see those clubs sticking around. I see them getting sold and rellocated to US markets and voids left in their place which will leave fans livid and MLS spinning blame into the CSA's lap. The threat of removal from MLS is hollow unless you have a comparable league of your own.

I believe that to be the endgame. Grow CPL so it's quality and TV contract is comparable to MLS and then make the big 3 jump to CPL.

•I believe that we can close the gap in term of quality over time

•We can get quality DPs and international players at lower cost with better scouting than the MLS

•MLS tv deal is a joke and nowhere close to be better for a long time. CPL can be on par over time assuming that the league occupy all the top 13 metro area in Canada and grow the game. 

•Then have the big 3 jump to have the CPL have 16 teams.

You're right, unless the CPL achieve the above, they are empty threats and CSA won't pull the trigger.

[Michael Crampton]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

This implies that the existing situation is working. I would argue the results of the last 20 years show that the existing situation is not working.

Lots of results in the last 10 years show that the existing situation is working for Canadian soccer. Part of the problem is conflating the results of the Canadian Men's National Team with the totality of Canadian soccer.

The primary point of professional soccer is to give spectators teams to watch, and players a place to play. We have three teams operating at a higher level of professionalism than there has ever been. They play in front of large crowds in modern facilities that appropriately display the sport. The games are on television. Players on those teams can earn a living playing soccer in Canada. The teams are doing well enough to finance developmental second teams that have provided more places for young aspiring Canadian professionals. We have a remarkably successful cup competition that also includes our country's other professional teams.

The problems of Canada's inadequate player pool start far below the level of the nation's professional clubs.

[BrennanFan]

9 minutes ago, Michael Crampton said:

Lots of results in the last 10 years show that the existing situation is working for Canadian soccer. Part of the problem is conflating the results of the Canadian Men's National Team with the totality of Canadian soccer.

The primary point of professional soccer is to give spectators teams to watch, and players a place to play. We have three teams operating at a higher level of professionalism than there has ever been. They play in front of large crowds in modern facilities that appropriately display the sport. The games are on television. Players on those teams can earn a living playing soccer in Canada. The teams are doing well enough to finance developmental second teams that have provided more places for young aspiring Canadian professionals. We have a remarkably successful cup competition that also includes our country's other professional teams.

The problems of Canada's inadequate player pool start far below the level of the nation's professional clubs.

I could not disagree more with you if I tried.  

The CMNT failures are not the issue.  MLS would still be failing Canadian soccer if we had happened to tie Honduras and make the Hex the past 2 cycles.

The successes you describe are fine.  But Canadian soccer deserves and requires more.  Its nice making $100,000 a year, but not when you should be making a million a year and you know your boss is screwing you.

The primary point of professional soccer in Canada is to build Canadian soccer.  To give Canadian players a place to play.  The MLS has failed grossly in this regard.  MLS takes millions out of the Canadian soccer community every year, and what does it give back?  

" Former CSA president Dominique Maestracci alleges that MLS broke its promise to him; that the three-Canadian-player minimum for Canadian MLS teams was ONLY supposed to be in effect for one year — and that it was supposed to rise by a player per year until it was a minimum of six Canadians per Canadian-team."  Steve Sandon - Plastic Pitch Issue 5.

Does that sound like MLS is doing a good job for Canadian soccer and Canadian players?  

The current success of MLS should not be compared to the wasteland that existed prior to 2007, but to what the situation should be now.  We should have a solid quota of at least 6 Canadian players for each Canadian MLS team.  We should be counted as domestics league wide.  Well, we have neither of those things, and the result is our young players have extremely limited domestic options to go along with their even more limited international options, and academies and clubs nationwide do not have realistic pathways for their players or realistic financial incentive to get better at developing professional players.  

The best contribution MLS has made for Canadian soccer is that it has provided evidence that Canadians will support good pro soccer.  If in fact we are now at the point where we can do better than what MLS is providing us with, as in establish an independent 8 team league, then we should absolutely do it, and if that means destroying the Canadian MLS clubs, then I say so be it. 

 

 

[-Hammer-]

1 hour ago, Michael Crampton said:

Lots of results in the last 10 years show that the existing situation is working for Canadian soccer. Part of the problem is conflating the results of the Canadian Men's National Team with the totality of Canadian soccer.

The primary point of professional soccer is to give spectators teams to watch, and players a place to play. We have three teams operating at a higher level of professionalism than there has ever been. They play in front of large crowds in modern facilities that appropriately display the sport. The games are on television. Players on those teams can earn a living playing soccer in Canada. The teams are doing well enough to finance developmental second teams that have provided more places for young aspiring Canadian professionals. We have a remarkably successful cup competition that also includes our country's other professional teams.

The problems of Canada's inadequate player pool start far below the level of the nation's professional clubs.

To the spectators, yes it's succeeded to a reasonable degree. To give players a place to play, it's been an abyssmal failure. 28 players (many not getting minutes), 9 mandatory spots and no garuntees as far as minutes played is not success in places to play.

Alright, yes we have three teams but a cap on any other additional teams as it stands with MLS.

Large crowds and modern facilities and being on TV are fair points.

Players on those teams can earn a living yes, but there are so few of said players because of how the exsisting structure operates and only 9 of them are garunteed and none of them require actual minutes to be played.

The developmental second teams have yet to produce good players consistently.

Our cup competition is 8 games total and draws drastically less spectators then MLS play (save in Montreal). How can you consider that successful? Also, a single berth for the CONCAAF Champion's league for said cup?

The problem is that player pool is inadequate because there aren't enough clubs and academy's growing and developing that pool well and not enough places to go and play quality minutes after youth development is over.

[Macksam]

58 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

Alright, yes we have three teams but a cap on any other additional teams as it stands with MLS.

How correct you were on that one. I was lying to myself thinking the other three markets could enter this league but that interview with Vic Rauter on TSN the other day spoke volumes.

[TRM]

2 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

To give players a place to play, it's been an abyssmal failure. 28 players (many not getting minutes), 9 mandatory spots and no garuntees as far as minutes played is not success in places to play.

Players on those teams can earn a living yes, but there are so few of said players because of how the exsisting structure operates and only 9 of them are garunteed and none of them require actual minutes to be played.

The developmental second teams have yet to produce good players consistently.

You seem to want guaranteed playing time for Canadians. There has been much written about that approach (i.e. the German vs Russian system). I favour the German. Clubs have a requirement to develop and sign players who can play for our national team. The final step has to be on the players. For the first team there should be ZERO guaranteed playing time. That is 100% on the player to take the position and keep it. At some point you have to put the onus on the player. The top level is where that occurs.

Leaving off the seasoned pros (Will, MDJ, Edgar, etc) let's have a look at the younger players who are getting minutes at the top level (MLS). Osorio (1934), Larin (1930), Akindele (1280), Aird (1276), Bekker (1139), Chapman (779), Hamilton (721), Teibert (695), Babouli (567).

So 2 young players (Osorio & Larin) have taken their spots and are holding them fairly well. Some are close but haven't taken their spot completely. I know not all came up through the MLS academies but I see real progress in our young players.

[Unnamed Trialist]

The fact is that we need a league for two reasons. One, because fans want to watch pro soccer, you never conceive a league without a fan base, it is unthinkable. We are not talking about having competitive training sessions closed doors to build the game. 

The fan base is also a financial base, however limited.

The second reason is to allow players to play in their home country. Even a nation with a weak league can use it as a base for growing pro players, like Iceland, a ground you build up from. We do not have that in Canada, we have whole massive regions with not one team where a player could make a living. That is bad for the development of the game. 

My opinion is that MLS, as it stands, and as it goes,, is not enough for Canadian soccer. We won't get another franchise, partially because no one will pay, also because the US potential growth areas are stronger. So we have to insist on changing these discriminatory rules against Canadian players. 

Our only possibility to get anything more from MLS is work-conditions parity, then at least the upper tier of NA soccer will have outlets for the more proven Canadian pros. So that would be good, we'd widen our mid-level pro base and our pool would be stronger in its mid-range, for about half of what our MNT player pool should really be (I assume we'd want to have 10-12 players always in clearly superior leagues in Europe if that were possible).

But it still leaves a major gap for local fans and regional players on the way up. Just look at how many Canadians are playing in 3-6th tiers in medium level European countries, it proves that there is interest out there. But that kind of sacrifice, having to go to Europe at 19 to make 30 grand, is really ridiculous. All that passion should be absorbed by your own league. 

[BCM]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The fact is that we need a league for two reasons. One, because fans want to watch pro soccer, you never conceive a league without a fan base, it is unthinkable. We are not talking about having competitive training sessions closed doors to build the game. 

The fan base is also a financial base, however limited.

The second reason is to allow players to play in their home country. Even a nation with a weak league can use it as a base for growing pro players, like Iceland, a ground you build up from. We do not have that in Canada, we have whole massive regions with not one team where a player could make a living. That is bad for the development of the game. 

My opinion is that MLS, as it stands, and as it goes,, is not enough for Canadian soccer. We won't get another franchise, partially because no one will pay, also because the US potential growth areas are stronger. So we have to insist on changing these discriminatory rules against Canadian players. 

Our only possibility to get anything more from MLS is work-conditions parity, then at least the upper tier of NA soccer will have outlets for the more proven Canadian pros. So that would be good, we'd widen our mid-level pro base and our pool would be stronger in its mid-range, for about half of what our MNT player pool should really be (I assume we'd want to have 10-12 players always in clearly superior leagues in Europe if that were possible).

But it still leaves a major gap for local fans and regional players on the way up. Just look at how many Canadians are playing in 3-6th tiers in medium level European countries, it proves that there is interest out there. But that kind of sacrifice, having to go to Europe at 19 to make 30 grand, is really ridiculous. All that passion should be absorbed by your own league. 

You make some good points @Unnamed Trialist, but I am concerned that too many in the community (ie - voyageurs) see the Canadian league as a panacea. The reality is it will be like the Welsh league - most of the players will never become top players, and only a few will make it to the 'big leagues' - in our case, that is MLS and NASL. At best, we could hope for an Irish league type scenario, where a lot of young talent is cultivated before moving on. The league is not all of a sudden going to uncover 40-50 hidden gems. And those 3rd-6th tier Canadians playing in Europe are not going to be stars for the MNT once they return home.

But I support the idea of a properly formulated league - I love the idea of the lower level Euros having an option to stay home, for more Canadians to be able to get out and become fans (I enjoyed a match in HK last night), and for a few of those players to even become fringe national team players and/or move up the ranks.

To end on a skeptical note, slightly concerned the proposed league is becoming a reformulated Ontario semi-pro league. 

[Michael Crampton]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

The fact is that we need a league for two reasons. One, because fans want to watch pro soccer...

The second reason is to allow players to play in their home country.

We don't need a league to fulfill either of those objectives. We need clubs. Let's start creating some.

[baulderdash77]

Where did you hear that the proposed league is being proposed as an Ontario semi pro league?

[El Hombre]

8 hours ago, TRM said:

You seem to want guaranteed playing time for Canadians. There has been much written about that approach (i.e. the German vs Russian system). I favour the German. Clubs have a requirement to develop and sign players who can play for our national team. The final step has to be on the players. For the first team there should be ZERO guaranteed playing time. That is 100% on the player to take the position and keep it. At some point you have to put the onus on the player. The top level is where that occurs.

Leaving off the seasoned pros (Will, MDJ, Edgar, etc) let's have a look at the younger players who are getting minutes at the top level (MLS). Osorio (1934), Larin (1930), Akindele (1280), Aird (1276), Bekker (1139), Chapman (779), Hamilton (721), Teibert (695), Babouli (567).

So 2 young players (Osorio & Larin) have taken their spots and are holding them fairly well. Some are close but haven't taken their spot completely. I know not all came up through the MLS academies but I see real progress in our young players.

Hard to include Akindele in there who (I believe) is a dual citizen.  It remains up in the air as to whether he'd be getting those minutes (or even on the team) if he had to take up an international spot.

As for the rest, it's tough to be optimistic when players like Lovitz, Zavaleta, Hagglund, Endoh, Jacobson, Smith, Perez and Shipp are still getting (not insignificant) playing time on those teams too.  I think Issey's point in the article was a good one.

[TRM]

16 minutes ago, El Hombre said:

Hard to include Akindele in there who (I believe) is a dual citizen.  It remains up in the air as to whether he'd be getting those minutes (or even on the team) if he had to take up an international spot.

As for the rest, it's tough to be optimistic when players like Lovitz, Zavaleta, Hagglund, Endoh, Jacobson, Smith, Perez and Shipp are still getting (not insignificant) playing time on those teams too.  I think Issey's point in the article was a good one.

Why? He is on our MNT, young (will be around for several more WCQ cycles) and getting the third most minutes of Canadians in MLS. Over time you will see those other players become coverage if they aren't already. In a salary capped league you need some inexpensive journeymen. Teibert was injured and Koffie traded so Jacobson has come through. 

The homegrown players have a huge advantages due to their salaries (or part of) not counting against the cap and being visible to the coach weekly in USL-Pro matches. With that in their favour they should not be guaranteed playing time on the first team. That they have to take.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

12 hours ago, BrennanFan said:

" Former CSA president Dominique Maestracci alleges that MLS broke its promise to him; that the three-Canadian-player minimum for Canadian MLS teams was ONLY supposed to be in effect for one year — and that it was supposed to rise by a player per year until it was a minimum of six Canadians per Canadian-team."  Steve Sandon - Plastic Pitch Issue 5.

Not sure that should necessarily be believed. Why didn't he get it in writing and don't they all have six now anyway, thanks to the homegrown player rule?.

[El Hombre]

1 hour ago, TRM said:

Why? He is on our MNT, young (will be around for several more WCQ cycles) and getting the third most minutes of Canadians in MLS.

Maybe we're getting our wires crossed on this one.  I was trying to point out that Akindele is a tough example to bring up during all this discussion because if he wasn't a dual national, he wouldn't be getting the chance to play like he is.  Maybe I wasn't clear.

 

1 hour ago, TRM said:

The homegrown players have a huge advantages due to their salaries (or part of) not counting against the cap and being visible to the coach weekly in USL-Pro matches. With that in their favour they should not be guaranteed playing time on the first team. That they have to take.

The problem with that is that USL players are generally under 22.  At any given moment, you can find a journeyman American, who doesn't take up an international spot, that is a "better/safer" player (at that moment).  Therefore, they are at a disadvantage because they are still learning the game and still may make mistakes.  Davies is the anomaly right now but that might be because he might be a generational talent.  If he wasn't that, but had a lot of potential, it would be a toss up as to whether he'd be given a chance to make mistakes in games that matter or if he would sit on the bench in favour of a 28 year old that is nothing special but limits the mistakes.  The USL player could have a higher ceiling, but that will never be realized due to the short-sightedness of MLS teams.

(Please don't take that as a Whitecaps slam.  All 3 Canadian teams do this)

[Macksam]

3 hours ago, BCM1555362349 said:

You make some good points @Unnamed Trialist, but I am concerned that too many in the community (ie - voyageurs) see the Canadian league as a panacea. The reality is it will be like the Welsh league - most of the players will never become top players, and only a few will make it to the 'big leagues' - in our case, that is MLS and NASL. At best, we could hope for an Irish league type scenario, where a lot of young talent is cultivated before moving on. The league is not all of a sudden going to uncover 40-50 hidden gems. And those 3rd-6th tier Canadians playing in Europe are not going to be stars for the MNT once they return home.

But I support the idea of a properly formulated league - I love the idea of the lower level Euros having an option to stay home, for more Canadians to be able to get out and become fans (I enjoyed a match in HK last night), and for a few of those players to even become fringe national team players and/or move up the ranks.

To end on a skeptical note, slightly concerned the proposed league is becoming a reformulated Ontario semi-pro league. 

The Welsh league clubs play in stadiums that seat 100 people. That league is on the level of the current CSL. We can do a lot better than that and the Irish league. Eredivise is a good thing to strive for and is entirely possible down the road.

Also, what are you talking about with regards to the proposed league becoming a reformulated Ontario semi pro league?

[BCM]

32 minutes ago, Macksam said:

The Welsh league clubs play in stadiums that seat 100 people. That league is on the level of the current CSL. We can do a lot better than that and the Irish league. Eredivise is a good thing to strive for and is entirely possible down the road.

I was more meaning in terms of quality - the better players will be with the MLS academies and move up that chain, while the late bloomers and (for lack of better word) leftovers are with the domestic league. That is the Welsh situation [incidentally, there's 3 Welsh teams in the English League (sound familiar), with three additional teams in the semi-pro lower leagues].

If we could develop as many players as the Irish league I would be over the moon!! I don't think you realise how many Premier League and Championship level players started out in the Irish league? The majority of the Irish national team* (*only including those actually born and raised in Ireland - not the plastic paddy's from England or Scotland) started playing in the league. The league moves several players each year to England and Scotland.

Moves straight from the Irish league to premier league are not even rare - from a quick glance at the latest roster, at least Seamus Coleman, Stephen Ward, James McClean, Shane Long, David Meyler and Darryl Murphy are all current ROI players that moved straight from the Irish League to Premier League. Nearly half the remaining players moved from the Irish league to Championship or Scottish teams. The others did not play in the Irish League. 

If the Canadian league can produce that many players for the national team, I will be astonished, and we will no longer be worrying about whether we'll qualify for the next Hex.

You're selling the Irish league short - it is exactly what we want the Canadian league to become!! It plays a hugely important role in the development of talent for the national team, but also understands its role and its inherent limitations. It attracts modest attendance and cannot pay as much as other leagues. So it has to produce and sell players to survive. This is the model for Canada.

Added - quick look says about 1800-2000 fans average in the Irish league, with some teams averaging over 4,000 per match and weaker teams much less

 

 

[Ansem]

We have a LARGE pool of players that have nowhere to go after reaching the top Amateur level within Canada. Some of them find their way into the MLS academies but the % is so small it won't help Canada in the long run.

You see, for each good player you manage to produce, another one already part of the program is set to retire or is past his prime. With the current structure, we're barely replacing the good players that are retiring, sometimes we're getting worse.

To be successful, we need to produce MUCH MORE quality players (Not Messis or Ronaldos), more depth players that are fully capable of following the manager's match plan and have some sort of chemistry at some level. We have nothing like that and that's why I think firing Floro won't fix the problem one bit.

That's the goal of CPL. To have this already massive pool of soccer players in Canada somewhere to go after reaching the top Amateur level. Then CPL teams will start their own academies to teach and sort them out so only the best of them make it to CPL. Floro was making a good point that Canada has good players but they don't play enough, they don't start so they aren't used to keep control of the ball and being pressed to recover the ball. Also, they nave no chemistry since it's so hard to get them released by MLS clubs. There's no time to teach and practice free kicks, corners and finishing.

SERIOUSLY GUYS, enough with the MLS isn't so bad rhetoric 

Will CPL make the Canadian Team the next Mexico or Argentina? Of course not. But CPL can make us the next Iceland, Australia, Greece and even the USA. That's the realistic goal. Canada needs the depth to produce a team that will consistently:

• Beat CONCACAF countries were supposed to beat
• Compete with Honduras, Jamaica, Panama and be favorites to win
• Be on par with Costa Rica and USA
• Not get destroyed by Mexico and actually be able to get a result
• Consistently making the Hex and Copa America
• Get to the world cup by at least qualify for the playoff match with Oceania 

[TRM]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Maybe we're getting our wires crossed on this one.  I was trying to point out that Akindele is a tough example to bring up during all this discussion because if he wasn't a dual national, he wouldn't be getting the chance to play like he is.  Maybe I wasn't clear.

I understand but disagree. He has got those minutes on the top team in the league (in any given week). Being a dual citizen or having your green card (2 years in the USA) is very handy and improves your market value to be sure but Tesho is clearly MLS quality and would be playing more on most other teams who would give up an int spot gladly for a player like that. 

 

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

 

The problem with that is that USL players are generally under 22.  At any given moment, you can find a journeyman American, who doesn't take up an international spot, that is a "better/safer" player (at that moment).  Therefore, they are at a disadvantage because they are still learning the game and still may make mistakes.  Davies is the anomaly right now but that might be because he might be a generational talent.  If he wasn't that, but had a lot of potential, it would be a toss up as to whether he'd be given a chance to make mistakes in games that matter or if he would sit on the bench in favour of a 28 year old that is nothing special but limits the mistakes.  The USL player could have a higher ceiling, but that will never be realized due to the short-sightedness of MLS teams.

(Please don't take that as a Whitecaps slam.  All 3 Canadian teams do this)

I don't take it as a slam on the Caps. ALL teams do that. US, Canadian and Euro. Yes the USL players are mostly under 22 but this has just begun. They are getting playing time at the level they can rise to. In a few years hopefully they will be the journeymen (or better) making less mistakes and being preferred over the next wave of young players. That is how it works. When a young player gets his chance due to injury or int duty and starts in MLS he has to know the time for mistakes is over. Time to deliver. 

The short sightedness of the coaches is brought about by them being fired after one bad season. They will always pick the players who will help them keep their jobs by consistently making few if any mistakes and contributing offensively and defensively. The challenge for our young players is to be that way. 

[TRM]

24 minutes ago, Ansem said:

We have a LARGE pool of players that have nowhere to go after reaching the top Amateur level within Canada. Some of them find their way into the MLS academies but the % is so small it won't help Canada in the long run.

Not true at all. We have 3 MLS, 2 NASL, 3 USL-Pro for a total of 8 pro teams. 10 years ago we had 3 D2 teams. We have more than doubled the available opportunities and most importantly have established a true pyramid with opportunities at each level.

[Macksam]

59 minutes ago, BCM1555362349 said:

You're selling the Irish league short - it is exactly what we want the Canadian league to become!! It plays a hugely important role in the development of talent for the national team, but also understands its role and its inherent limitations. It attracts modest attendance and cannot pay as much as other leagues. So it has to produce and sell players to survive. This is the model for Canada.

Added - quick look says about 1800-2000 fans average in the Irish league, with some teams averaging over 4,000 per match and weaker teams much less

 

 

Besides selling talent to bigger leagues, we can do a lot better than the Irish league. The Irish league is good for Ireland's small country, not ours. The investors involved with the CPL have ambitions to be a much bigger league than something that draws 2000 people on average.

[Ansem]

11 minutes ago, TRM said:

Not true at all. We have 3 MLS, 2 NASL, 3 USL-Pro for a total of 8 pro teams. 10 years ago we had 3 D2 teams. We have more than doubled the available opportunities and most importantly have established a true pyramid with opportunities at each level.

I was referring to the raw pool of players in this county subscribed in a soccer league, which is higher than hockey. They just have nowhere to go after a certain point

[-Hammer-]

12 hours ago, TRM said:

You seem to want guaranteed playing time for Canadians. There has been much written about that approach (i.e. the German vs Russian system). I favour the German. Clubs have a requirement to develop and sign players who can play for our national team. The final step has to be on the players. For the first team there should be ZERO guaranteed playing time. That is 100% on the player to take the position and keep it. At some point you have to put the onus on the player. The top level is where that occurs.

Leaving off the seasoned pros (Will, MDJ, Edgar, etc) let's have a look at the younger players who are getting minutes at the top level (MLS). Osorio (1934), Larin (1930), Akindele (1280), Aird (1276), Bekker (1139), Chapman (779), Hamilton (721), Teibert (695), Babouli (567).

So 2 young players (Osorio & Larin) have taken their spots and are holding them fairly well. Some are close but haven't taken their spot completely. I know not all came up through the MLS academies but I see real progress in our young players.

Now I could be mistaken, but I believe the German system requires at least 4 club developed players (which must be German) be on their gameday roster, as well as additional 8 EU players on the payroll as well. Regardless though, even if there aren't rules in place to enforce German requirements, the vast majority of their teams are German and Germans are getting a high number of minutes on every team in the Bundesliga. Canadian's aren't in MLS. Probably because a German league is developing German players to meet their requirements cheaper then MLS a US league with few Canadian requirements developing Canadian players.

However, lets also look at your picks, Osorio, Hamilton, Babouli, Teibert, Bekker, Aird and Chapman all play on teams which have a 3 player Canadian game day roster requirement, and are typically in those slots.So that three player requirement is generating a small amount of talent. I don't dispute that. It's the main reason I want to see more teams that have mandatory Canadian slots. It is just it is developing a total of 7 players, and given the majority of your picks in this exercise, it's pretty clear that teams that have to have Canadians on their roster, tend to develop Canadians.

Not nearly enough though, nor enough playing time. As you pointed out, only two on the list (one who is a mandatory roster spot) are getting good minutes. If all teams had that requirement it would help things. Granted it still wouldn't create mandatory playing time, but at least it would force more development of Canadians so teams wouldn't have dead weight onto the roster. Still lack of good minutes is a problem here. The other question which must be asked, is do these guys even get signed if that Canadian requirement isn't there? Heck, do they even get developed at all if that requirement isn't there?

One of your other picks is Akindele. He has dual citizenship so he's effectively a US player as far as MLS is concerned, we are just lucking out that he has dual citizenship. He's certainly a good player, no question of that, but I'm uncertain if he gets the wage, minutes or development if he wasn't a US domestic. Four years of his development were in Colorado in the NCAA and not from a Canadian source and one year in the PDL in Colorado. So unless you plan on Academy's mandating players get dual citizenship, and hoping on the NCAA to develop Canadians Akindele is a anomaly in this case.

So Larin is the only other youth player on that list. Also the MLS rookie of the year after showing incredible talent and spent 8 years with Sigma FC and their academy. Not exactly a ringing endorsement of TFC's academy system, even moreso by the fact that Orlando signed him. He's the only young player on the list who is getting minutes as a foreign player in MLS who isn't required to be on the team.

[-Hammer-]

35 minutes ago, TRM said:

Not true at all. We have 3 MLS, 2 NASL, 3 USL-Pro for a total of 8 pro teams. 10 years ago we had 3 D2 teams. We have more than doubled the available opportunities and most importantly have established a true pyramid with opportunities at each level.

Fair, but back when we last qualified for the World Cup we had 5 leading up to it in the NASL (which also had North American domestic slots, not Canadian only slots so plenty of more places to go) and several teams more teams in the CNSL.

Then when we came close in the 90s we came down to the final game in qualification it came off having our own domestic league with 13 Professional Canadian teams. Once again, plenty of more places to go.
 

[TRM]

21 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

Fair, but back when we last qualified for the World Cup we had 5 leading up to it in the NASL (which also had North American domestic slots, not Canadian only slots so plenty of more places to go) and several teams more teams in the CNSL.

Then when we came close in the 90s we came down to the final game in qualification it came off having our own domestic league with 13 Professional Canadian teams. Once again, plenty of more places to go.
 

Yes and there in lies the problem. At least 2 Canadian spots per team in the USA should count as domestic. Hell I'd take 1 spot. The teams don't have to use it but it would add a lot of market value to the player. It would also add 17 or 34 more spots to play for those of our players capable of playing at that level.

Back to the waiting for Garber business. It is blatantly unfair but it will not be fixed by having a D3 level league in Canada. The idea for a regional D3 league is great but this national league? I don't see how it will fly when you either compete head to head with the 3 MLS teams or ignore the 3 largest markets in the country. Neither will work.

Our best bet is to agitate and harass MLS into treating our players fairly. Mexico and other countries are not part of MLS. We are. We deserve some basic fairness for our players. 

[TRM]

55 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

Now I could be mistaken, but I believe the German system requires at least 4 club developed players (which must be German) be on their gameday roster, as well as additional 8 EU players on the payroll as well.

Also they have to have been in the clubs system for at least 2 years. I'm okay with all that but the point is that they have ZERO minutes guaranteed just because they are German. Those they have to take. 

They also have way fewer pro sports for their kids to aspire to. No NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL. The vast majority of their talented athletes choose soccer. Never going to be that way here.