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Lucas Cavallini


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No way is pacheco in the starting line up.

I can live with the rest of the line up you posted. Add borjan in net of course.

 

Pacheco looked more than capable against Colombia. But I suspect Floro puts in JDG ahead of him. Personally, it's time for JDG to move on, this GC should be his last. 

 

Reme90: thanks for the translation.

More than one person has called Cavallini "impressionable" or immature. I think that hits the nail on the head.

Another thing that strikes me about the situation, given that he seems to be impressionable, is the role that this guy Jorge Armua seems to have played in fanning the flames of anti-Canada sentiment through his coaching. I think that's one thing we really need to focus on, and it's not a simple problem. There's a truth in this story which is that youth soccer in Canada in a general sense (at least at the time LC was starting to play does (or did) put more emphasis on the physical than the technical. I have a teammate on my over 40s team from Spain who coaches 13 year olds, and the smaller, smarter boys that he selects and trains routinely thump the larger more athletic kids on other teams, and that comes down to learning the technical game. On the other hand, I know that my friend would never equate those wins to an inherent inferiority of Canadian soccer. That's so irresponsible on so many levels. Now, maybe kids come to that conclusion on their own, but even then it would be a responsible coach that squashes that and says "hey, we win because you're learning the game properly. Not because you're Latino (or insert other ethnic group here)"

Personally, although I'm not holding out any more hope for LC to suit up for Canada, I'm also not thinking of him as the villain. He was a kid hearing for years at Club Uruguay in Toronto (?) how much Canada sucked or at least coming to that conclusion himself as a youngster and no influential adult telling him otherwise. Coaches like Armua are the ones we should be focussing on. We need to support coaches who have that technical focus but we can't allow those coaches to perpetuate an anti-Canada attitude either by action or omission. Do I know how to do that? Not a clue. Hoping somebody does.

Anyway, my two cents.

There is no doubt that the environment he grew up and the coaches he has had have had a major impact on his lack of enthusiasm for Canada. I want to make a comparison with our USA counterparts. The two best youth coaches in the USA hail from Argentina, The Kleiban brothers from California. They are vocally critical and openly detest what they call "Jungle Ball" soccer that the USA produces. They were seen as villains in USA soccer circles, until their private academies were demolishing the biggest clubs in tournaments all over the USA.

They trained thousands of Latinos, who often were overlooked by clubs because physically they were smaller and not your typical athletes. Alot of these youths went on to have careers in Mexico, South America, MLS, NASL and some even in Europe. They were eventually brought in to form the Chivas USA Academy and now that that is disbanded they now run the LA Galaxy academy. 

These coaches are seen by many as Anti-American, as they constantly berate "American Soccer". However, nobody can argue with the quality they produce, going head to head with Barcelona, Arsenal youth teams and even beating them.

 

My point to all this is, Is the decades long rejection we receive by countless professional soccer players from leagues around the world warranted? Have we ever had a program worth playing for? Outside of Floro and maybe Osieck has our head coach ever been worth playing for?

Is the lack of a player pool sufficient evidence that a massive NATIONAL overhaul is needed before we can even dream of quality players fighting for their spot on the national team?

Maybe the villains are not the players themselves but the programs that failed them?

 

 

 

 Likely the 8-1 result was off-putting and the whole process of trucking it out to central America for games against minnows where he may not play and we might actually lose isn't worth his time at this point in his career.  There's not much of a safety net in leagues like Uruguay so it's pretty dicey if he starts losing minutes or contracts.  I doubt that it is more than that.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him back in a few years.  Whether we'll want or need him then is something he likely hasn't considered.

This is spot on.

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I can understand your POV regarding de guzman and for him to move on. Seems people have been calling for this since the 8-1 loss.  But seeing how Floro called him into every camp when he was unattached and now hes playing 90 mins a game in NASL during the qualifying cycle he'll be getting called up to every camp because he is one of Floro's favourites. May even be starting quite a bit. And IMO De Guzman has looked pretty good the last year in a Canada shirt.

Edited by king1010
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Pacheco looked more than capable against Colombia. But I suspect Floro puts in JDG ahead of him. Personally, it's time for JDG to move on, this GC should be his last. 

 

There is no doubt that the environment he grew up and the coaches he has had have had a major impact on his lack of enthusiasm for Canada. I want to make a comparison with our USA counterparts. The two best youth coaches in the USA hail from Argentina, The Kleiban brothers from California. They are vocally critical and openly detest what they call "Jungle Ball" soccer that the USA produces. They were seen as villains in USA soccer circles, until their private academies were demolishing the biggest clubs in tournaments all over the USA.

They trained thousands of Latinos, who often were overlooked by clubs because physically they were smaller and not your typical athletes. Alot of these youths went on to have careers in Mexico, South America, MLS, NASL and some even in Europe. They were eventually brought in to form the Chivas USA Academy and now that that is disbanded they now run the LA Galaxy academy. 

These coaches are seen by many as Anti-American, as they constantly berate "American Soccer". However, nobody can argue with the quality they produce, going head to head with Barcelona, Arsenal youth teams and even beating them.

 

My point to all this is, Is the decades long rejection we receive by countless professional soccer players from leagues around the world warranted? Have we ever had a program worth playing for? Outside of Floro and maybe Osieck has our head coach ever been worth playing for?

Is the lack of a player pool sufficient evidence that a massive NATIONAL overhaul is needed before we can even dream of quality players fighting for their spot on the national team?

Maybe the villains are not the players themselves but the programs that failed them?

 

 

Outstanding post remeo90.

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The massive overhaul of the porgram began a couple years ago, did it not? Grassroots to the academies, USL, NASL, MLS to full MNT.

 

Isn't that what we're saying about our young prospects coming through the sytem?

Edited by king1010
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The massive overhaul of the porgram began a couple years ago, did it not? Grassroots to the academies, USL, NASL, MLS to full MNT.

 

Isn't that what we're saying about our young prospects coming through the sytem?

This is false.

To date there still is no National overhaul of our programs. In fact, our system is as broken as ever. Ontario runs it's own thing with LTPD, which became very divisive. PQ runs its own program so does BC. I'm not aware if other provinces have taken similar steps but I know that in Manitoba all the youth development is done by cultural clubs like the "Italians, Portuguese, Latin" etc. In all of Winnipeg there is only like 6 clubs for youth premier. It's disastrous, even though there is an embarrassment of riches in talent.

The MLS, USL, NASL and their academies are actually thanks to the efforts of USSoccer and not the CSA. We are benefiting from the overhaul of their system and piggybacking off the programs they are pursuing. 

As far as private academies, they have been springing up everywhere all over this country as people have and continue to abandon a system they know has failed and will continue to do so. However, in a very dysfunctional way, our provincial associations have failed to integrate these successful academies into the system out of fear of losing registration fees.

Truth be told, until the provincial associations to accept the fact that they have failed and submit to a massive overhaul of how they are governed, where the money goes to, and how soccer is developed our player pool will continue to trudge along slowly and painfully. 

Who do I blame? YOU, yes you, the Canadian soccer fan, for putting up with this for too long. You and I should be protesting outside of our provincial associations demanding the change, forcing the change. We should have tipped over buses and lit tires on fire by now, but instead we blame the players who succeeded in SPITE of our system not because of it.

It's not all doom and gloom, the MLS academies are helping nurture Canadian talent and for that I am grateful, but don't for a second think that has anything to do with a National plan.

 

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The problem with our system is that not all players are in the program. There are players, coaches and entities operating outside the program - and in some cases they have a much stronger football knowledge/experience.

This is particularly true for the largest metro areas. Doesn't Toronto have a latino football league?

I don't know what the answer is - but if the CSA can do a better job of integrating some of these high calibar individuals it would be a step in the right direction.

A man who's played professionally in Uruguay and develops players and connects them to South America really ought to have a post with the OSA or at least be a coach for one of their provincial teams.

Has this man ever been contacted by the OSA or offered a role with them? Some more background knowledge on this individual could be quite telling....

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To add to my point - imagine if every provincial team was coached by an individual with playing/coaching experience abroad? We complain that coaching in this country is poor, yet these coaches or potential coaches clearly exist. They are just not involved with the CSA or the provincial associations.

This is said with all due respect to our domestically trained coaches, of course. There is just not enough of them for starters, and secondly - as a whole they are not good enough. I have friends who played soccer at the same level as me growing up who now coach provincial teams. One in particular knows his stuff and has even served on the coaching staff for a Canadian U-18 camp - but here we have this man with playing experience in Uruguay who selects and trains players and connects them with SA clubs...and has not been utilized by the CSA as far as I can tell.

Something is backwards here....

Edited by Obinna
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The problem with our system is that not all players are in the program. There are players, coaches and entities operating outside the program - and in some cases they have a much stronger football knowledge/experience.

This is particularly true for the largest metro areas. Doesn't Toronto have a latino football league?

I don't know what the answer is - but if the CSA can do a better job of integrating some of these high calibar individuals it would be a step in the right direction.

A man who's played professionally in Uruguay and develops players and connects them to South America really ought to have a post with the OSA or at least be a coach for one of their provincial teams.

Has this man ever been contacted by the OSA or offered a role with them? Some more background knowledge on this individual could be quite telling....

I think the problem has been a deliberate attempt to keep these people out of the system. For example, Jason De Vos renounced his position on TAC because private academies were not permitted to join the new top tier Ontario league. The reason was simple, if academies who offer a better program were made legitimate, what would prevent players and parents from taking their dollars from clubs to academies?? Well nothing.

The clubs know they would take a financial hit. Instead of improving their soccer program and competing with academies, it's easier to keep them outside of the system.

People like Armua, are critical of the people and the soccer programs in this country. What club would want to bring him in, so that he can fire you and abolish everything you run.

It's self-preservation that keeps things the way they are. We need a painful change, and the people who have the courage to take it.

 

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Personally, although I'm not holding out any more hope for LC to suit up for Canada, I'm also not thinking of him as the villain. He was a kid hearing for years at Club Uruguay in Toronto (?) how much Canada sucked or at least coming to that conclusion himself as a youngster and no influential adult telling him otherwise. Coaches like Armua are the ones we should be focussing on. We need to support coaches who have that technical focus but we can't allow those coaches to perpetuate an anti-Canada attitude either by action or omission. Do I know how to do that? Not a clue. Hoping somebody does.

Anyway, my two cents.

 

I agree with most of your points, I absolutely think that Cavallini and others around the country are influenced by these wanna be Mourinhos who think that they're superior and liberating their young "insert ethnicity here" from the evil Canadians and their hockey ways.  These are the most bitter, spoiled people on earth because I guarantee you can find a Canadian coach better than them and I guarantee you could find a Uruguayan coach worse than the average Canadian coach as well.  Imagine some hockey dad going over to coach hockey in Spain and being the most arrogant prick about Spanish hockey and it's ways? Ya... 

 

I just disagree with the highlighted point about him not being a villain because he DID play for Canada despite our assumptions of him being swayed away from Canada.  Now that he is away from this coach he isn't playing for Canada so it doesn't seem the theory fits completely.  

Edited by Keegan
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I think the problem has been a deliberate attempt to keep these people out of the system. For example, Jason De Vos renounced his position on TAC because private academies were not permitted to join the new top tier Ontario league. The reason was simple, if academies who offer a better program were made legitimate, what would prevent players and parents from taking their dollars from clubs to academies?? Well nothing.

The clubs know they would take a financial hit. Instead of improving their soccer program and competing with academies, it's easier to keep them outside of the system.

People like Armua, are critical of the people and the soccer programs in this country. What club would want to bring him in, so that he can fire you and abolish everything you run.

It's self-preservation that keeps things the way they are. We need a painful change, and the people who have the courage to take it.

That is an excellent point and great observation. This is where the CSA needs to interviene. If the CSA is not actively empowering these former professionals - the least they can do is passively empower them.

For example - couldn't the CSA create more exclusive coaching requirement?

That could look like: Any coach of a "X" program must either have "X" credentials (ex. CSA National B license) or documentation of professional playing experience.

That knocks many coaches down a few rungs and helps to ensure the system is maximizing what people like Aruma have to offer....

By the way - I fully acknowledge that a Canadian coach can be better than a forigen coach in a one-off. Generally speaking though, we are not a coaching hot bed. We should get the most out of the resources in this country that can offer a different coaching/training style.

Edited by Obinna
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I agree with most of your points, I absolutely think that Cavallini and others around the country are influenced by these wanna be Mourinhos who think that they're superior and liberating their young "insert ethnicity here" from the evil Canadians and their hockey ways.  These are the most bitter, spoiled people on earth because I guarantee you can find a Canadian coach better than them and I guarantee you could find a Uruguayan coach worse than the average Canadian coach as well.  Imagine some hockey dad going over to coach hockey in Spain and being the most arrogant prick about Spanish hockey and it's ways? Ya... 

 

I just disagree with the highlighted point about him not being a villain because he DID play for Canada despite our assumptions of him being swayed away from Canada.  Now that he is away from this coach he isn't playing for Canada so it doesn't seem the theory fits completely.  

There is a lot of arrogance there, but there is also a lot of truth. A Canadian hockey coach would inherently know more than a Spanish coach, wouldn't he? Just knowing the history, the culture, the training, the skating from age 3, the players, the teams, the styles.

I would certainly expect him to know more. If I was a Spanish parent I'd want my kid coached by a Canadian for Hockey. Or a Jamaican for Track, or an American for NFL style football. It's common sense no?

 

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I agree with most of your points, I absolutely think that Cavallini and others around the country are influenced by these wanna be Mourinhos who think that they're superior and liberating their young "insert ethnicity here" from the evil Canadians and their hockey ways. These are the most bitter, spoiled people on earth because I guarantee you can find a Canadian coach better than them and I guarantee you could find a Uruguayan coach worse than the average Canadian coach as well. Imagine some hockey dad going over to coach hockey in Spain and being the most arrogant prick about Spanish hockey and it's ways? Ya...

I just disagree with the highlighted point about him not being a villain because he DID play for Canada despite our assumptions of him being swayed away from Canada. Now that he is away from this coach he isn't playing for Canada so it doesn't seem the theory fits completely.

This fake Mourinho thing I want to address. Why are you downplaying the fact that many of these types have more extensive knowledge of the game?

Club Uruguay of Toronto. This is the type of thing the CSA should monitor closely. Who runs the club? What is his/her background? Can the CSA use this person? Is this person better than Joe the U-14 Ontario coach? Is this person willing to take that role with OSA as a side project? Full time? Willing to take Joe on his coaching staff?

No excuses. The CSA could probably pay one of us 20/hr to do this type of research if they need someone motivated enough to put in the leg work...

Edited by Obinna
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This is false.

To date there still is no National overhaul of our programs. In fact, our system is as broken as ever. Ontario runs it's own thing with LTPD, which became very divisive. PQ runs its own program so does BC. I'm not aware if other provinces have taken similar steps but I know that in Manitoba all the youth development is done by cultural clubs like the "Italians, Portuguese, Latin" etc. In all of Winnipeg there is only like 6 clubs for youth premier. It's disastrous, even though there is an embarrassment of riches in talent.

The MLS, USL, NASL and their academies are actually thanks to the efforts of USSoccer and not the CSA. We are benefiting from the overhaul of their system and piggybacking off the programs they are pursuing. 

As far as private academies, they have been springing up everywhere all over this country as people have and continue to abandon a system they know has failed and will continue to do so. However, in a very dysfunctional way, our provincial associations have failed to integrate these successful academies into the system out of fear of losing registration fees.

Truth be told, until the provincial associations to accept the fact that they have failed and submit to a massive overhaul of how they are governed, where the money goes to, and how soccer is developed our player pool will continue to trudge along slowly and painfully. 

Who do I blame? YOU, yes you, the Canadian soccer fan, for putting up with this for too long. You and I should be protesting outside of our provincial associations demanding the change, forcing the change. We should have tipped over buses and lit tires on fire by now, but instead we blame the players who succeeded in SPITE of our system not because of it.

It's not all doom and gloom, the MLS academies are helping nurture Canadian talent and for that I am grateful, but don't for a second think that has anything to do with a National plan.

 

 

I was asking a question regarding if the overhaul had happened. Not making a statement that it had.

 

Good post though, very thurough.

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This fake Mourinho thing I want to address. Why are you downplaying the fact that many of these types have more extensive knowledge of the game?

Club Uruguay of Toronto. This is the type of thing the CSA should monitor closely. Who runs the club? What is his/her background? Can the CSA use this person? Is this person better than Joe the U-14 Ontario coach? Is this person willing to take that role with OSA as a side project? Full time? Willing to take Joe on his coaching staff?

No excuses. The CSA could probably pay one of us 20/hr to do this type of research if they need someone motivated enough to put in the leg work...

 

Where am I downplaying it?  The Mourinho reference was in respect to the arrogance.  Of course they have more knowledge but that doesn't make it right to put themselves on a pedestal over ALL Canadians when there are in fact many knowledgable about the game.  The bottom line is that these coaches have no right to stomp on Canada.  How can we get better if the people with knowledge are complete pricks?

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That is an excellent point and great observation. This is where the CSA needs to interviene. If the CSA is not actively empowering these former professionals - the least they can do is passively empower them.

For example - couldn't the CSA create more exclusive coaching requirement?

That could look like: Any coach of a "X" program must either have "X" credentials (ex. CSA National B license) or documentation of professional playing experience.

That knocks many coaches down a few rungs and helps to ensure the system is maximizing what people like Aruma have to offer....

By the way - I fully acknowledge that a Canadian coach can be better than a forigen coach in a one-off. Generally speaking though, we are not a coaching hot bed. We should get the most out of the resources in this country that can offer a different coaching/training style.

We don't need more coaching certification, we need more coaching education. 

I think the major problem is MONEY.

Clubs exist because of registration fees. The more people who register the more money you have. So the primary focus of each club is to register the most amount of people with the least amount of cost. Here in lies the root problem, where soccer is not the goal but the instrument to the ultimate goal which is having a healthy bottom line. 

 

Hence a huge emphasize by clubs on House League and Timbits soccer, with a huge reliance on volunteer coaching. There is no incentive to hire good coaches and to allow those coaches to implement a professional program. Because that would require lots of money (coaching education, fields, practice time) and it would be exclusive by nature (low number of participants). Little to no training is provided to volunteer coaches, and no oversight is given to whether these volunteer coaches are even teaching the game properly. As well, no club that I know of has any sort of program that scouts good coaches, identifies coaching talent, recruits good coaches and nurtures that talent within the club. The most I've seen done is the club will pay for your OSA coaching course which is coaching certification and not coaching education ( which is a big difference).

The way a coach moves to a prominent role within the club is usually   A) Politics - personal connections or  B) Wins, which is not always indicative of a good coaching practices, but rather good scouting and recruiting of "better" athletic players. I've coached House league and Rep and I can't recall once where I was evaluated.  

As kids get older they begin to drop out of the sport (mostly due to lack of development due to bad coaching throughout their formative years). The more desperate the club gets for registration fees, often taking on players who are not good enough to join competitive programs and adding 2nd, 3rd, or 4th Rep teams in an age group. Which is why you get Clubs thrashing other clubs 13-0 in a Rep "competitive" program.

 

The club doesn't care as long as they get their registration money.

Generally speaking the better the program the more it costs, the less money the club makes. The new Ontario league was to address this by instituting a high standard. The academies who met the high standard of facilities, coaching staff, and governance are not sanctioned by the OSA in order to force the players to instead play (pay) with a club.

Parents are getting wise to it though and prefer to pay alot more money to academies. Although, the cost is alot more, the value is better. It's a broken system to say the least.

 

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While there are certainly things we can and should do to improve how soccer is taught in this country, I don't think distasteful insulting comments by a player like Cavallini should be the catalyst for such a discussion and additionally it seems like it is making up excuses for his unacceptable behaviour (not to mention the immense amount of speculation about the attitude of a former coach of his). There is a huge difference between playing for your country and providing some constructive criticism of it and abandoning your country and just insulting it to feed your weak ego. And for all his Uruguayan superiority complex, my personal belief which I held long before these comments is as modest a national team as we have, Cavallini is a semi-pro player who is simply not good enough to play for us. And if he is worried about his legacy for his daughter, maybe one day she will come upon threads like this and wonder why does everyone hate my Dad while the children of players like Simpson and Hutchinson can look upon threads where their fathers' are loved. And what exactly is he trying to achieve by his comments? Does he actually think running down Canada and Canadian soccer makes him look good in the eyes of Uruguyuans?  

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Cavallini hasn't achieved much in his career and I think in time he will come to regret those words. He is also deluded if he thinks he has anywhere near the talent to be considered for Uruguay's NT. 

 

As to the other stuff in this thread regarding Canadian soccer development, I think the tide is beginning to shift. As the MLS academies become established and more NASL clubs start springing up with their own academies to boot (Hamilton soon?), you'll start to see more of a shift with two distinct streams emerging: professional and amateur. Parents will soon realize that their kid's best shot at the pros is by signing them up for a try-out with these pro academies (and I include entities such as Sigma FC in there), not some random amateur club. 

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That is the most amusing part - he thinks he has Uruguay NT potential. I mean - we'll never truly know, but as Griz and others have pointed out before, he really needed to prove he can be a top scorer at Nacional before that's even a thought. Even that would only be step one - maybe good enough to get a look on a B squad/domestic-based squad. Then in all likelyhood he'd have to move abroad either to Europe or MEX/ARG/BRA in order to really get noticed. Of course, being on the books won't be enough he'd have to be scoring regularly to enter the conversation. That is 3 steps behind where he should be at this age if he had Uruguay or Argentina aspirations.

Another funny thing - why did he even cap tie himself if he wanted to be part of another NT set up? Did this guy even think about the consequences? He mustn't be very smart and/or poorly guided. The lack of foresight on his part speaks to his character.

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That is the most amusing part - he thinks he has Uruguay NT potential. I mean - we'll never truly know, but as Griz and others have pointed out before, he really needed to prove he can be a top scorer at Nacional before that's even a thought. Even that would only be step one - maybe good enough to get a look on a B squad/domestic-based squad. Then in all likelyhood he'd have to move abroad either to Europe or MEX/ARG/BRA in order to really get noticed. Of course, being on the books won't be enough he'd have to be scoring regularly to enter the conversation. That is 3 steps behind where he should be at this age if he had Uruguay or Argentina aspirations.

Another funny thing - why did he even cap tie himself if he wanted to be part of another NT set up? Did this guy even think about the consequences? He mustn't be very smart and/or poorly guided. The lack of foresight on his part speaks to his character.

Agree that he must be deluded if he thinks he as Uruguay NT potential.  He's not some 16 year old kid being loaned out from Nacional.  I would think most Uruguay NT players were stars in the Uruguay league or already moved on to bigger overseas leagues by the age Cavallini is currently.

 

My guess about the cap-tie thing - had the local girlfriend been in the mix at that point?  Maybe being with her has strengthened his feelings about Uruguay and weakened them re: Canada.  Total speculation on my part though.

 

Jason

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My guess about the cap-tie thing - had the local girlfriend been in the mix at that point?  Maybe being with her has strengthened his feelings about Uruguay and weakened them re: Canada.  Total speculation on my part though.

 

 

We robbed her of a Uruguay NT baby daddy.  Anyone would be upset.  

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As to the other stuff in this thread regarding Canadian soccer development, I think the tide is beginning to shift. As the MLS academies become established and more NASL clubs start springing up with their own academies to boot (Hamilton soon?), you'll start to see more of a shift with two distinct streams emerging: professional and amateur.

 

Parents will soon realize that their kid's best shot at the pros is by signing them up for a try-out with these pro academies (and I include entities such as Sigma FC in there), not some random amateur club. 

Totally agree, it's these professional environments with qualified coaches that will produce our next golden generation. The last one being produced by the creation of the Canadian Soccer League, in the early 80's,  a lot of those players ended up having great careers in Europe. 

The only problem is 5-6 teams in MLS and NASL is not nearly enough to produce a large enough player pool. I think the CSA, the MLS Players Union and Canadian fans should lobby hard for Canadian players to be on equal footing with American ones. It would open up the other 20 teams as potential places where Canadians can develop. 

 

I think the emergence of for-profit Soccer Academies will have an even greater impact at the grassroots than MLS academies. Eventually, the provincial associations will not be able to ignore them and once they sanction them, it will force the clubs to adapt and improve, or be completely recreational or disappear. 

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