Pacific FC - 2022 Season

[narduch]

Wonder if this leads the club to move to Victoria proper

[SpursFlu]

18 minutes ago, narduch said:

Wonder if this leads the club to move to Victoria proper

Bro have you seen the characters in charge of Victoria. The only way you get something done in Victoria is if you promise to turn the stadiumin to a camp city monday - friday. They're fine in Langford. I think maybe the I hate the camera angle crowd just might have to suck it up

Edited October 16, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

27 minutes ago, narduch said:

Wonder if this leads the club to move to Victoria proper

The existing stadium would be perfectly adequate long term if the league downscaled their economic model a bit (let's not go there in this thread), but they still seem to have higher ambitions that revolve around 10,000 seats. Presumably Dean Shillington does want to sell Pacific eventually, which would be complicated if the existing facility made it impossible to be profitable in future if the league gets to where it wants to be.

Royal Athletic Park in Victoria proper has baseball as anchor tenant these days and would also need to be expanded. There was some talk of that at one point when Pacific were maybe trying to place pressure on Stew Young & Co to move the hydro pole, but that soon fizzled out. Don't think there are any easy instant answers on this. Strongly suspect a move the pole or we'll move to another city threat to this new set of Langford local politicians would be answered with on you go then and don't call us in future we'll call you having waded through various twitter accounts.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Watchmen]

Yeah, the league talked tough on the "move the hydro pole or else..." early on, but I think they'll be smart enough not to push it for a while now.

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

Worth bearing in mind that Pacific is on the market for new ownership to a certain extent, which doesn't help. 

With what's unfolding in Edmonton it's crunch time in some ways on where the league is heading. This election result potentially gives Dean Shillington an excuse to pull the plug and focus on the Lower Mainland where he always wanted to be in the first place. Removal of the hydro pole at other people's expense is probably in the lease agreements and failure to do so could easily trigger a financially painless exit.

From a Canadian pro soccer history vantage point, they should be happy with the sort of crowds they are drawing at Starlight this season including yesterday's, budget accordingly from here on and trundle along like a WHL franchise as more of a service to the community than a get rich quick scheme, but if this is viewed first and foremost as a long term investment play aimed at high future growth as a D1 in substance as well as sanctioning, the 10,000 seat angle might be a deal breaker.

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Worth bearing in mind that Pacific is on the market for new ownership to a certain extent, which doesn't help. 

With what's unfolding in Edmonton it's crunch time in some ways on where the league is heading. This election result potentially gives Dean Shillington an excuse to pull the plug and focus on the Lower Mainland where he always wanted to be in the first place. Removal of the hydro pole at other people's expense is probably in the lease agreements and failure to do so could easily trigger a financially painless exit.

From a Canadian pro soccer history vantage point, they should be happy with the sort of crowds they are drawing at Starlight this season including yesterday's, budget accordingly from here on and trundle along like a WHL franchise as more of a service to the community than a get rich quick scheme, but if this is viewed first and foremost as a long term investment play aimed at high future growth as a D1 in substance as well as sanctioning, the 10,000 seat angle might be a deal breaker.

Why do you hate this league so much 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Worth bearing in mind that Pacific is on the market for new ownership to a certain extent, which doesn't help. 

With what's unfolding in Edmonton it's crunch time in some ways on where the league is heading. This election result potentially gives Dean Shillington an excuse to pull the plug and focus on the Lower Mainland where he always wanted to be in the first place. Removal of the hydro pole at other people's expense is probably in the lease agreements and failure to do so could easily trigger a financially painless exit.

From a Canadian pro soccer history vantage point, they should be happy with the sort of crowds they are drawing at Starlight this season including yesterday's, budget accordingly from here on and trundle along like a WHL franchise as more of a service to the community than a get rich quick scheme, but if this is viewed first and foremost as a long term investment play aimed at high future growth as a D1 in substance as well as sanctioning, the 10,000 seat angle might be a deal breaker.

Your name should be "Ozzie_the_vulture"... always creeping up at the first cracks.

But I sympathise... USL withdrawal is a nasty condition with long term side effects if untreated for too long

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

23 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

Why do you hate this league so much 

I'm through with being polite when people post stuff like this. If you can't accept I care about Canadian soccer as much as you do there is no point engaging me in conversation.

Edited October 16, 2022 by Ozzie_the_parrot

[Watchmen]

3 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Worth bearing in mind that Pacific is on the market for new ownership to a certain extent, which doesn't help. 

With what's unfolding in Edmonton it's crunch time in some ways on where the league is heading. This election result potentially gives Dean Shillington an excuse to pull the plug and focus on the Lower Mainland where he always wanted to be in the first place. Removal of the hydro pole at other people's expense is probably in the lease agreements and failure to do so could easily trigger a financially painless exit.

It may hurt the price Shillington wants to sell it for.  I don't think you can jump to the conclusion it would result in the team folding or relocating.

[Aird25]

1 hour ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

I'm through with being polite when people post stuff like this. If you can't accept I care about Canadian soccer as much as you do there is no point engaging me in conversation.

I don’t really care. I do think you care about Canadian soccer, but you hamstring this league every opportunity you have. Everything is spun in a negative manner

[ted]

19 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

The Stew Young bit perhaps being the worst part, if the stadium was what swung the election.

I don't think so. I saw a tweet from someone running from the other slate and they expressed support for the team and stadium.

 

12 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Bro have you seen the characters in charge of Victoria.

I guess you missed the election results. The only person returning to council is the newly elected mayor who was a councillor. The one incumbent running was beaten. We have an all-new* council.

*we did elect someone who was on council over a decade ago.

 

9 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

Worth bearing in mind that Pacific is on the market for new ownership to a certain extent, which doesn't help.

When I spoke to Dean Shillington on Saturday as he wandered by our section before the game, he gave no indication he was in a hurry to get out. If anything it sounds like he is happy to own part of both teams and leave running them to the other partners. To be fair, I'm sure he's not gonna say anything to me about potential sale but there is no indication from any source that would make me concerned ATM.

Edited October 17, 2022 by ted

[SpursFlu]

I would love for Ozzie to attend the closest possible CPL match and start screaming at everyone that they should go home immediately and that CPL shouldn't exist because it will never work.

Maybe be like one of those Extinction Now protestors. Show up to the CPL finals and just start dumping paint on everyone. Then lay in the tunnel to stop the players from taking the field. People clearly aren't getting the message and maybe it's time to be a bit more disruptive

Edited October 17, 2022 by SpursFlu

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, ted said:

I don't think so. I saw a tweet from someone running from the other slate and they expressed support for the team and stadium.

 

I guess you missed the election results. The only person returning to council is the newly elected mayor who was a councillor. The one incumbent running was beaten. We have an all-new* council.

*we did elect someone who was on council over a decade ago.

I'll defer to you on this one but I thought I saw the new mayor was an extension of the retiring outgoing mayor. The point I was making was that if I know Victoria like I think I do,  Victoria City is probably not the easiest place in the world build a stadium. They'll probably still have better luck getting things done in Langford 

[Unnamed Trialist]

Since I follow both elections and some of the workings (a friend ran for mayor 4 years ago in Victoria), have to say that the Langford change was not really expected.

Young has relied on a lot of new residents coming in happy to have a new house and mortgage, a general optimism related to being able to (mostly) own in Greater Victoria. This has likely worn off as residents look to other qualitative factors.

Knowing people living in Langford, including people also choosing to leave, there is a general recognition that development is pell mell and they really have not cared for certain details for too long now. The slate that took out Stu got this angle, worked it well (Young's refusal to table, pass and follow a development plan) and seemed to convince a small % of eligible voters (less than 25% voted). 

Basically, all Young had to do was to get 13% of residents to come out and vote for him, he did not do the groundwork, and the alternate vote was slighly better motivated.

Starlight was not a major issue, though it could become one. In Greater Victoria Young would often do things his way and not collaborate with neighbouring municipalities to ensure certain public services (won't get into details, but he preferred to do it himself instead of joining others for common services, as would make sense, bordering 4 municipalities often without clear geographical divisions). This could go both ways, for example: Starlight could become the legitimate live sports venue in Western Greater Victoria, then other public spaces and venues could be used by Langford residents: complementary, reinforcing the facility. 

There will be no clear shift in Victoria with the new mayor, at least not from the mayor. She's been in council for a long time, does not even live in Victoria, and is not that different from the previous mayor (lip service to liberal left causes, soft posturing in favour of environmental or identity politices, but real service to developers, a model that has not yet become entirely problematic but could be soon).

The other thing is if anyone on council becomes dedicated to a worthy cause: getting full value from Royal Athletic Park. Now that Shillington may not feel so committed to the new council or Langford and vice versa, moves could be make in that direction. Interestingly, the most voted city councillor (which does not of course mean anything come council voting time), Jeremy Caradonna, is an Environmental Studies prof at University of Victoria and a self-confessed soccer fan, his bio even says life revolves around the soccer pitch, amongst other places; and that he spends a lot of time happily obsessing over the game. He openly argues in favour of making sports facilities accessible and publicly viable. My friend who ran 4 years ago was speaking well of him yesterday, as an academic and a person. 

[SpursFlu]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Since I follow both elections and some of the workings (a friend ran for mayor 4 years ago in Victoria), have to say that the Langford change was not really expected.

Young has relied on a lot of new residents coming in happy to have a new house and mortgage, a general optimism related to being able to (mostly) own in Greater Victoria. This has likely worn off as residents look to other qualitative factors.

Knowing people living in Langford, including people also choosing to leave, there is a general recognition that development is pell mell and they really have not cared for certain details for too long now. The slate that took out Stu got this angle, worked it well (Young's refusal to table, pass and follow a development plan) and seemed to convince a small % of eligible voters (less than 25% voted). 

Basically, all Young had to do was to get 13% of residents to come out and vote for him, he did not do the groundwork, and the alternate vote was slighly better motivated.

Starlight was not a major issue, though it could become one. In Greater Victoria Young would often do things his way and not collaborate with neighbouring municipalities to ensure certain public services (won't get into details, but he preferred to do it himself instead of joining others for common services, as would make sense, bordering 4 municipalities often without clear geographical divisions). This could go both ways, for example: Starlight could become the legitimate live sports venue in Western Greater Victoria, then other public spaces and venues could be used by Langford residents: complementary, reinforcing the facility. 

There will be no clear shift in Victoria with the new mayor, at least not from the mayor. She's been in council for a long time, does not even live in Victoria, and is not that different from the previous mayor (lip service to liberal left causes, soft posturing in favour of environmental or identity politices, but real service to developers, a model that has not yet become entirely problematic but could be soon).

The other thing is if anyone on council becomes dedicated to a worthy cause: getting full value from Royal Athletic Park. Now that Shillington may not feel so committed to the new council or Langford and vice versa, moves could be make in that direction. Interestingly, the most voted city councillor (which does not of course mean anything come council voting time), Jeremy Caradonna, is an Environmental Studies prof at University of Victoria and a self-confessed soccer fan, his bio even says life revolves around the soccer pitch, amongst other places; and that he spends a lot of time happily obsessing over the game. He openly argues in favour of making sports facilities accessible and publicly viable. My friend who ran 4 years ago was speaking well of him yesterday, as an academic and a person. 

It's funny watching the election this year and talk of changing to ward system. We basically have a ward system in our urban areas, we call them cities. Everything is so chopped up in to small pieces all you need is a motivated minority of people to get enthusiastic about something and you're in. Or if people feel they're outnumbered in their little enclave of the area they just up and move 20 minutes away. Between that and the transient nature of things nowadays you have so little community engagement. It's a miracle anything ever gets done, let alone building a stadium 

Edited October 17, 2022 by SpursFlu

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

It's funny watching the election this year and talk of changing to ward system. We basically have a ward system in our urban areas, we call them cities. Everything is so chopped up in to small pieces all you need is a motivated minority of people to get enthusiastic about something and you're in. Or if people feel they're outnumbered in their little enclave of the area they just up and move 20 minutes away. Between that and the transient nature of things nowadays you have so little community engagement. It's a miracle anything ever gets done, let alone building a stadium 

You misunderstand wards, though I get your point if you are creatively referring to the sort of metropolitan area (stretching the term) we see in metropolitan Victoria: 14 municipalities or municipal electoral districts. Each looking to its own interests, few concerned of common goals, weak coordination of a mass of shared concerns (Greater Vic interests). Lack of leadership and conflict of egos. 

 

 

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

9 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

...It's a miracle anything ever gets done, let alone building a stadium 

By the sounds of things (there's a completely boorish radio interview online from after he had found out he lost), Stew Young thought he had a job for life as mayor. That meant he thought he could do whatever he liked due to a hitherto low level of engagement with municipal politics in the outer 'burb he basically built up from scratch along with his cronies who also all got booted out as councillors as well.

That helped to make stuff like moving the hydro pole to add 5000 seats on the taxpayers dime to a 5000 capacity soccer stadium for a club drawing 3000 or so potentially doable at a location with limited parking and less than ideal highway access. If it was a hockey arena nobody bats an eyelid basically but it's soccer and it's Canada so that has strong monorail monorail monorail Simpsons episode type vibes to it for a lot of people.

Having Langford as the trailblazer with an entrenched local politician who was not afraid to do something unusual for our sport was important for what the league wants to do elsewhere. For example, a 10,000 seat permanent stadium should be easy enough to justify in Halifax at this point but nothing much appears to be happening.

Lack of suitable municipal stadia is one of the factors that makes expansion of a soccer league with the scale of ambition on capacity that CanPL has into all the 200,000+ population markets across Canada much more difficult than it would be in hockey, basketball and baseball where suitable facilities are regarded as being basic infrastructure any city worth its salt should have.

[Aird25]

8 hours ago, Ozzie_the_parrot said:

By the sounds of things (there's a completely boorish radio interview online from after he had found out he lost), Stew Young thought he had a job for life as mayor. That meant he thought he could do whatever he liked due to a hitherto low level of engagement with municipal politics in the outer 'burb he basically built up from scratch along with his cronies who also all got booted out as councillors as well.

That helped to make stuff like moving the hydro pole to add 5000 seats on the taxpayers dime to a 5000 capacity soccer stadium for a club drawing 3000 or so potentially doable at a location with limited parking and less than ideal highway access. If it was a hockey arena nobody bats an eyelid basically but it's soccer and it's Canada so that has strong monorail monorail monorail Simpsons episode type vibes to it for a lot of people.

Having Langford as the trailblazer with an entrenched local politician who was not afraid to do something unusual for our sport was important for what the league wants to do elsewhere. For example, a 10,000 seat permanent stadium should be easy enough to justify in Halifax at this point but nothing much appears to be happening.

Lack of suitable municipal stadia is one of the factors that makes expansion of a soccer league with the scale of ambition on capacity that CanPL has into all the 200,000+ population markets across Canada much more difficult than it would be in hockey, basketball and baseball where suitable facilities are regarded as being basic infrastructure any city worth its salt should have.

The stadium is 2 minutes from Highway 1

[Unnamed Trialist]

32 minutes ago, Aird25 said:

The stadium is 2 minutes from Highway 1

True, but probably 95% of the Greater Victoria population is to the east of the location.

[SpursFlu]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

True, but probably 95% of the Greater Victoria population is to the east of the location.

Yah but for how long? Things are rapidly changing in every "urban area" across the country. I get Langford is a rapidly growing suburb much like a Willoughby or Clayton Heights and people are experiencing growing pains but where the heck do you want people to go? People grow up and have families or cone to this country with a family and unless you're a billionaire city centers are not viable anymore. Watching the new Vancouver mayor it was nice to hear but unfortunately a place like Vancouver things are too far gone. It's done. It's like saying you're going to make Manhattan a great place for the average person to live. At the rate we're letting people in to this country it is what it is. Build stadiums where you can, beggers cant be choosers, put teams where you can and watch the tide come in. Like it, don't like it.. thats what it is 

[Unnamed Trialist]

3 hours ago, SpursFlu said:

Yah but for how long? Things are rapidly changing in every "urban area" across the country. I get Langford is a rapidly growing suburb much like a Willoughby or Clayton Heights and people are experiencing growing pains but where the heck do you want people to go? People grow up and have families or cone to this country with a family and unless you're a billionaire city centers are not viable anymore. Watching the new Vancouver mayor it was nice to hear but unfortunately a place like Vancouver things are too far gone. It's done. It's like saying you're going to make Manhattan a great place for the average person to live. At the rate we're letting people in to this country it is what it is. Build stadiums where you can, beggers cant be choosers, put teams where you can and watch the tide come in. Like it, don't like it.. thats what it is 

I don't have a problem with them building a facility in Langford.

Point is, Royal Athletic Park is an ideal location. I am not sure they'd let them put in enough seats to hold, say, 7000. Or that if the neighbourhood would accept it, even though it'd only mean 14 home games plus V-Cup, playoffs and Concacaf a year. It is a public facility, however, so it would make sense to get greater value from it. It is essentially a central location near a good area for pubs and bars, and there would even be fans walking/biking into games.

Odd you'd defend Langford when you hammer away at Langley for being too far out and argue in favour of a more central location in Surrey. A hypothetical location with a plan for a stadium that is pie-in-the-sky, and an area around it not anywhere near as nice as the area near Royal Athletic in Victoria, bordering on Fernwood, Cook St.

Anyways, you asking "how long" proves you have never been to the place we are talking about. There is a demographic shift west, with Langford fast-growing; but there is also growth in downtown Victoria, and could be growth in other municipalities. So if you think you put a stadium at the edge of a metropolitan area and wait for fans to move nearby, that is a rather bold 3 decade plan.

Edited October 18, 2022 by Unnamed Trialist

[ted]

On 10/16/2022 at 10:18 PM, SpursFlu said:

I'll defer to you on this one but I thought I saw the new mayor was an extension of the retiring outgoing mayor.

The incoming mayor was part of the "progressive" side of the council but as the old mayor found out, they are only one vote on council.

 

14 hours ago, Aird25 said:

The stadium is 2 minutes from Highway 1

So what? Anyone driving that stretch of Highway 1 on a regular basis quickly gets to know the "Colwood Crawl" and for the majority of the core (where the target demographic for professional sports teams overwhelming live) it is "the burbs" at best.

[Aird25]

9 hours ago, ted said:

So what? Anyone driving that stretch of Highway 1 on a regular basis quickly gets to know the "Colwood Crawl" and for the majority of the core (where the target demographic for professional sports teams overwhelming live) it is "the burbs" at best.

The comment I was responding to was that Starlight has poor highway access, which just isn’t the case.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Aird25

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

1 hour ago, Aird25 said:

The comment I was responding to was that Starlight has poor highway access, which just isn’t the case...

Fact check: what was actually stated was "less than ideal" rather than "poor". Access to the stadium involves a two-lane suburban road ending in a T-junction at the stadium with a set of traffic lights. It would be laughable to try to claim that would be ideal for an expanded 10,000 seat capacity stadium in an area with limited mass transit options.

[SpursFlu]

17 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I don't have a problem with them building a facility in Langford.

Point is, Royal Athletic Park is an ideal location. I am not sure they'd let them put in enough seats to hold, say, 7000. Or that if the neighbourhood would accept it, even though it'd only mean 14 home games plus V-Cup, playoffs and Concacaf a year. It is a public facility, however, so it would make sense to get greater value from it. It is essentially a central location near a good area for pubs and bars, and there would even be fans walking/biking into games.

Odd you'd defend Langford when you hammer away at Langley for being too far out and argue in favour of a more central location in Surrey. A hypothetical location with a plan for a stadium that is pie-in-the-sky, and an area around it not anywhere near as nice as the area near Royal Athletic in Victoria, bordering on Fernwood, Cook St.

Anyways, you asking "how long" proves you have never been to the place we are talking about. There is a demographic shift west, with Langford fast-growing; but there is also growth in downtown Victoria, and could be growth in other municipalities. So if you think you put a stadium at the edge of a metropolitan area and wait for fans to move nearby, that is a rather bold 3 decade plan.

I never hammered the Langley location. I think both locations are fine. Surrey is better for all the obvious reasons, Langley is better because there is a better sense of community in that location. Either way they're good but I think the feel and marketing of the club may need to be adjusted based on either location. But yah I like both locations just Surrey could definitely be bigger in scale and potentially incorporate the Lions