Theo Corbeanu

[Ozzie_the_parrot]

4 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I'm really curious to hear how some compare Segunda to the Championship since all Championship players were called, except JKL. And Theo is not currently in Segunda. He is in La Liga and has played well in the short time he's been there.

Spain has a smaller population than England and fan interest in lower division clubs there, and hence also the finances that can be generated, drops away more steeply. Beyond that it's Mauro Biello's job (at least for now) to watch all these guys closely and not just pick players based on a perceived pecking order between different pro leagues.

[gigi riva]

Theo will bget a call up in the near future , along with guys like Jayden Nelson

[Corazon]

8 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I'm really curious to hear how some compare Segunda to the Championship since all Championship players were called, except JKL. And Theo is not currently in Segunda. He is in La Liga and has played well in the short time he's been there.

I always like to compare by the Top 20 teams from combined leagues.  Opta Power Rankings seems to do a decent job.  Based off of this, it is actually an even split right now with 10 teams from the League Championship and 10 teams from Segunda.  Mind you, the top 6 clubs are all from the English League Championship.

From our players:

14th (208) Leganes - Abzi

18th (260) PNE - Millar

21st (291) Bristol City - JKL

28th (358) Watford - Kone

38th (451) Sheffield Wednesday - Ugbo

The data and calculations are not perfect but I think they do a much better job than FIFA does.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

I think the level will be considered as it is with all players. Dropping down a level means he'll have to significantly improve his game time, his production, and his general impact for his club, no? 

That's one part of it.

The other part is how he does with the national team. Club form is important up to a point. Play with the national team itself has to be a massive factor. That's why I want him to play for Canada at the earliest opportunity to stake his claim, know what I mean?

Otherwise, his NT contributions get even more outdated than they are now. 

I'm not sure, but if he did have a good campaign in the next few months, and they dropped, he could also get a loan offer from a Liga team. Just saying, you can't necessarily project. His teammate Hongla was at Valladolid last year with Larin, they dropped, Granada promoted, and they ended up buying him. 

What makes me think he would stay with Granada, however, is that they bought him outright, he is probably not on a high salary, he is young: perfect for a 2nd division campaign. Next season in 2nd they are not going to have Pellistri still on loan from Manchester United, so he'd slot in. Would be a good season for him (and I think they'd be a promotion candidate). 

It is really too bad they blew that 2-0 lead last weekend, as otherwise they'd still have a chance at avoiding relegation, thinking they have a game in hand. But they are pretty hapless, I don't like their coach, they remind me of teams even worse than Valladolid last season.

In real Granada/Corbeanu news: they visit Mallorca this Saturday, should be a nice one.

[Obinna]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I'm not sure, but if he did have a good campaign in the next few months, and they dropped, he could also get a loan offer from a Liga team. Just saying, you can't necessarily project. His teammate Hongla was at Valladolid last year with Larin, they dropped, Granada promoted, and they ended up buying him. 

What makes me think he would stay with Granada, however, is that they bought him outright, he is probably not on a high salary, he is young: perfect for a 2nd division campaign. Next season in 2nd they are not going to have Pellistri still on loan from Manchester United, so he'd slot in. Would be a good season for him (and I think they'd be a promotion candidate). 

It is really too bad they blew that 2-0 lead last weekend, as otherwise they'd still have a chance at avoiding relegation, thinking they have a game in hand. But they are pretty hapless, I don't like their coach, they remind me of teams even worse than Valladolid last season.

In real Granada/Corbeanu news: they visit Mallorca this Saturday, should be a nice one.

Ah okay I get where you are coming from. That makes sense. I was just assuming he would stay at Granada, but yeah he could move and that could change the equation. It would be interesting if he were to move to another La Liga team on loan. More likely he just plays in the 2nd division, which I think would be fine.

And it would be better than fine if he can help push Granada back into La Liga.

[InglewoodJack]

Only reason I would want him to stay with Granada in LL2 is because he needs to develop continuity with a team asap, but I think if he keeps this going, he will get loaned to another La Liga team. I looked at Leicester's roster, probably the club with the most "first tier" players in the second tier, and they loaned a few of their young guys out to other top flight teams. If he does end up playing in the second tier, 15 goal, 10 assist season, that's the sort of thing I'd want to see from him.

[DeRo_Is_King]

1 hour ago, Corazon said:

I always like to compare by the Top 20 teams from combined leagues.  Opta Power Rankings seems to do a decent job.  Based off of this, it is actually an even split right now with 10 teams from the League Championship and 10 teams from Segunda.  Mind you, the top 6 clubs are all from the English League Championship.

From our players:

14th (208) Leganes - Abzi

18th (260) PNE - Millar

21st (291) Bristol City - JKL

28th (358) Watford - Kone

38th (451) Sheffield Wednesday - Ugbo

The data and calculations are not perfect but I think they do a much better job than FIFA does.

 

How does Granada compare to Championship? 

[Obinna]

15 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Only reason I would want him to stay with Granada in LL2 is because he needs to develop continuity with a team asap, but I think if he keeps this going, he will get loaned to another La Liga team. I looked at Leicester's roster, probably the club with the most "first tier" players in the second tier, and they loaned a few of their young guys out to other top flight teams. If he does end up playing in the second tier, 15 goal, 10 assist season, that's the sort of thing I'd want to see from him.

I would be elated to see that level of production, but I am definitely not going to hold that level of expectation. I would be thrilled with a 10 goal 5 assist season in La Liga 2. I don't see any evidence to suggest he will hit those numbers you are expecting. Would love to be wrong obviously. 

[InglewoodJack]

3 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I would be elated to see that level of production, but I am definitely not going to hold that level of expectation. I would be thrilled with a 10 goal 5 assist season in La Liga 2. I don't see any evidence to suggest he will hit those numbers you are expecting. Would love to be wrong obviously. 

That would be a fantastic year, don't get me wrong, but he'll turn 23 late next season- he's entering his prime. He was on track for about 10+ assists on the year in Switzerland, and even though I don't think that you can extrapolate his La Liga performances yet, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities that he ends this year with a cumulative stat line of like 5 goals, 8 assists or so across both Switzerland and Spain- currently at 2G/5A right now. Assuming he takes a leap and is also facing worse competition, I think we need to see a monster year from him. Basically, if he's who we think he is, and I think he is that guy, then he should be one of the best players in La Liga 2. Again with Leicester, but I look at some of the numbers guys like Kiernan Dewsbury-Hall or Stephy Mavididi are putting up, playing in the second tier for the first time ever, that's what I would want to see from Corbeanu.

Edited March 13 by InglewoodJack

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Only reason I would want him to stay with Granada in LL2 is because he needs to develop continuity with a team asap, but I think if he keeps this going, he will get loaned to another La Liga team. I looked at Leicester's roster, probably the club with the most "first tier" players in the second tier, and they loaned a few of their young guys out to other top flight teams. If he does end up playing in the second tier, 15 goal, 10 assist season, that's the sort of thing I'd want to see from him.

Well that is expecting a lot from a player in 2nd division, that would be huge. No one in 2nd has more than 12 goals from open play as we stand, the leading scorers in Segunda have lower numbers than Liga scorers. 

They score less in Spanish 2nd than 1st, it is not a wild free for all like Championship (which resembles NBA, or the concept: so many games and less rest, they go go go, driving forward, and defending is secondary to scoring). Spanish 2nd is very tactical and that is one reason it is harder to watch, it is tactical, lots of fouling, physically demanding but not in terms of pace, in terms of defensive rigour and pressure. It is a very hard division (on teams like Burgos with a good keeper you can see shutouts half the games). But like in Championship, Bundesliga 2, the majority of the teams vying for promotion have been in top flight before and have stadiums and finances to handle it, and just a few exceptions sneak in there. And the lower half is mostly teams you'd expect to be there. 

What is missing in Spanish 2nd division is the tv deal they have in England, in theory and in practice, which was a fundamental change to ensure no huge drop off in income, helping clubs retain players after relegation and not have to make such major roster changes if they do promote.

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Well that is expecting a lot from a player in 2nd division, that would be huge. No one in 2nd has more than 12 goals from open play as we stand, the leading scorers in Segunda have lower numbers than Liga scorers. 

They score less in Spanish 2nd than 1st, it is not a wild free for all like Championship (which resembles NBA, or the concept: so many games and less rest, they go go go, driving forward, and defending is secondary to scoring). Spanish 2nd is very tactical and that is one reason it is harder to watch, it is tactical, lots of fouling, physically demanding but not in terms of pace, in terms of defensive rigour and pressure. It is a very hard division (on teams like Burgos with a good keeper you can see shutouts half the games). But like in Championship, Bundesliga 2, the majority of the teams vying for promotion have been in top flight before and have stadiums and finances to handle it, and just a few exceptions sneak in there. And the lower half is mostly teams you'd expect to be there. 

What is missing in Spanish 2nd division is the tv deal they have in England, in theory and in practice, which was a fundamental change to ensure no huge drop off in income, helping clubs retain players after relegation and not have to make such major roster changes if they do promote.

That makes sense. I just threw a random number out there, but my hope would be that Theo would be one of the best players in the league, however that translates on the stat sheet. He was arguably one of the best players in Switzerland, he was wanted enough to get signed by a La Liga team, at one point last year he was the leading goal scorer for a Championship team- and IIRC he remained their second highest goal scorer months after he left. Based on growth trajectory and the quality of the league compared to where he's been, naturally, he should be one of the better players in the league.

Would like to see how he fares playing a physical game though. He's a pretty big guy, which doesn't really get talked about, but he has the physical profile to hang in against teams that play a really physical game, and I'd like to see him experience that more.

[Obinna]

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

That makes sense. I just threw a random number out there, but my hope would be that Theo would be one of the best players in the league, however that translates on the stat sheet. He was arguably one of the best players in Switzerland, he was wanted enough to get signed by a La Liga team, at one point last year he was the leading goal scorer for a Championship team- and IIRC he remained their second highest goal scorer months after he left. Based on growth trajectory and the quality of the league compared to where he's been, naturally, he should be one of the better players in the league.

Would like to see how he fares playing a physical game though. He's a pretty big guy, which doesn't really get talked about, but he has the physical profile to hang in against teams that play a really physical game, and I'd like to see him experience that more.

I think hoping he is one of the best players in the league is a fair expectation. Like you said, he's soon 23 and will need to be one of the best players in that division if he is who we think he is. Not sure how that will translate into numbers given what @Unnamed Trialist is saying.

As long as he's one of the best attackers for a Granada side that goes straight back up, I am sure the numbers will be impressive. 

[Corazon]

30 minutes ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

How does Granada compare to Championship? 

According to Opta Analytics, Granada is behind 8 English League Championship sides.  They're also currently ranked behind a couple of the top Segunda sides and just slightly ahead of Leganes.

[DeRo_Is_King]

6 minutes ago, Corazon said:

According to Opta Analytics, Granada is behind 8 English League Championship sides.  They're also currently ranked behind a couple of the top Segunda sides and just slightly ahead of Leganes.

Interesting. We have no players on the current top-eight Championship teams. Millar is closest with Preston tied for ninth. And arguably, all of our Championship guys could start the game vs T&T. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 hour ago, DeRo_Is_King said:

I'm really curious to hear how some compare Segunda to the Championship since all Championship players were called, except JKL. And Theo is not currently in Segunda. He is in La Liga and has played well in the short time he's been there.

To put the cat amongst the pidgeons again  - probably.  From anectodal observation and probably safely assuming the Segunda is worse than La Liga, it is also a fair bit worse that the Championship.  Again from watching Larin's bottom half of the table teams and Corbeanu's in La Liga -  if top half/top third team were not involved - the level of football was - to me - surprisingly low. 

[InglewoodJack]

37 minutes ago, Obinna said:

I think hoping he is one of the best players in the league is a fair expectation. Like you said, he's soon 23 and will need to be one of the best players in that division if he is who we think he is. Not sure how that will translate into numbers given what @Unnamed Trialist is saying.

As long as he's one of the best attackers for a Granada side that goes straight back up, I am sure the numbers will be impressive. 

Plus, with him, it seems like he starts off super strong, becomes a starter, bad game, goes to the bench, claws back to the starting lineup, so on- I don't want any of that. Hoping he starts every game that he's match fit and is the, or one of (no clue if they'd keep some of their other good players) the focal points of the offense.

 

Taking a look at last year's top offensive players in LaLiga 2- there's Theo's current teammate Myrto Uzuni who had 23G/5A. There's Raul Garcia- 22 years old last year, so same age as Theo next year, he had 19/7. Jonathan Dubasin- 23 last year, 11/5. 15/10 is probably too ambitious and might not be attainable, but top 5 scoring, top 5 G/A, starts every game, etc. should be the expectation. My fear is that there's a pretty decent chance Granada don't get promoted, if he can't get moved by end of year, he'll play a second year of La Liga 2, and now we're looking at a player who is 24 and playing second tier Spanish ball- not bad by any means, but Abzi was 24 playing in La Liga (no minutes but still). That's probably the time in your career you start taking those MLS offers a little more seriously. Obviously real doomer situation, but I think TC should spend as little time as possible in LL2, and given his age and how he should keep improving, I hope he plays himself out of the second tier next year, with or without Granada.

I was gonna comment and say 8 points back means they still might actually stay above water, but holy crap- one single win since August? That's crazy. They are playing some bottom of the table clubs before end of season, so maybe a miracle, but damn. What a bad club.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

13 minutes ago, InglewoodJack said:

Plus, with him, it seems like he starts off super strong, becomes a starter, bad game, goes to the bench, claws back to the starting lineup, so on- I don't want any of that. Hoping he starts every game that he's match fit and is the, or one of (no clue if they'd keep some of their other good players) the focal points of the offense.

 

Taking a look at last year's top offensive players in LaLiga 2- there's Theo's current teammate Myrto Uzuni who had 23G/5A. There's Raul Garcia- 22 years old last year, so same age as Theo next year, he had 19/7. Jonathan Dubasin- 23 last year, 11/5. 15/10 is probably too ambitious and might not be attainable, but top 5 scoring, top 5 G/A, starts every game, etc. should be the expectation. My fear is that there's a pretty decent chance Granada don't get promoted, if he can't get moved by end of year, he'll play a second year of La Liga 2, and now we're looking at a player who is 24 and playing second tier Spanish ball- not bad by any means, but Abzi was 24 playing in La Liga (no minutes but still). That's probably the time in your career you start taking those MLS offers a little more seriously. Obviously real doomer situation, but I think TC should spend as little time as possible in LL2, and given his age and how he should keep improving, I hope he plays himself out of the second tier next year, with or without Granada.

I was gonna comment and say 8 points back means they still might actually stay above water, but holy crap- one single win since August? That's crazy. They are playing some bottom of the table clubs before end of season, so maybe a miracle, but damn. What a bad club.

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves, if we are judging his exclusion.

He has played 63' minutes out of 450 since his signing, on a poor team.  He's not there right now, hopefully he can be by the end of the year. 

[InglewoodJack]

1 minute ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves, if we are judging his exclusion.

He has played 63' minutes out of 450 since his signing, on a poor team.  He's not there right now, hopefully he can be by the end of the year. 

I think he is there- he’s proven he can score at a high level, and I think he could be more useful to us than someone like JRR. But he has no other national team to play with, it’s not in his best interest to retire from international soccer at 21, and he will get better. I’m not worried at all. I do hope he takes that leap into a can’t not call type player over the next year. In all likelihood, we’ll be okay, and he’ll be one of our best players in time for the next World Cup. 

[Obinna]

3 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves, if we are judging his exclusion.

He has played 63' minutes out of 450 since his signing, on a poor team.  He's not there right now, hopefully he can be by the end of the year. 

It's a poor team indeed given it's La Liga, but it's arguably the best team he's been a part of aside from Wolves, which he was never really part of for more than a handful of occassions. So, he's training everyday with better players than he was at Grasshoper, Arminia Bielefeld, Blackpool, etc. That's the silver lining, I guess. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Obinna said:

It's a poor team indeed given it's La Liga, but it's arguably the best team he's been a part of aside from Wolves, which he was never really part of for more than a handful of occassions. So, he's training everyday with better players than he was at Grasshoper, Arminia Bielefeld, Blackpool, etc. That's the silver lining, I guess. 

At the risk of getting into the continual debate on here, I think that Blackpool team was better than what I have seen of Granada.

So yes I believe he is better than the minutes he is getting but he hardly played at Bielefeld, so we can't neccesarily say it is because this is a better team.  

[Unnamed Trialist]

2 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

To put the cat amongst the pidgeons again  - probably.  From anectodal observation and probably safely assuming the Segunda is worse than La Liga, it is also a fair bit worse that the Championship.  Again from watching Larin's bottom half of the table teams and Corbeanu's in La Liga -  if top half/top third team were not involved - the level of football was - to me - surprisingly low. 

There isn't a big enough laugh emoji for that one.

This is why I insist so many have been proselytized, reality is not important. Of course all of us EPL detractors are not really detractors, it is just that it makes us laugh with derision. You are invested in a belief of superiority, but that superiority has never  been seen on the pitch. In fact, on the pitch, Spain is better in direct finals, in best player awards, the Spanish player --or German, or Italian, all World Cup and Euro winners in the modern era-- is a superior footballer. The list of the best EPL players is a joke compared to the best in Italy or Spain in the same period.

This is what is supposed to happen, of course, if the marketing works that way, and you are brought up a certain way, and you buy into the narrative that you have been fed.

I was fed one way of thinking then have had a chance to question it. It is just a counter discourse because on these Canadian boards we get a bigger dose of these sectarian adepts and you have to have go at their irrationality.

Should not surprise us that these arguments are being used to justify Biello, the whole point is to prove Biello is right in leaving Theo off (if that is what he did).

 

Edited March 13 by Unnamed Trialist

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

12 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

There isn't a big enough laugh emoji for that one.

This is why I insist so many have been proselytized, reality is not important. Of course all of us EPL detractors are not really detractors, it is just that it makes us laugh with derision. You are invested in a belief of superiority, but that superiority has never  been seen on the pitch. In fact, on the pitch, Spain is better in direct finals, in best player awards, the Spanish player --or German, or Italian, all World Cup and Euro winners in the modern era-- is a superior footballer. The list of the best EPL players is a joke compared to the best in Italy or Spain in the same period.

This is what is supposed to happen, of course, if the marketing works that way, and you are brought up a certain way, and you buy into the narrative that you have been fed.

I was fed one way of thinking then have had a chance to question it. It is just a counter discourse because on these Canadian boards we get a bigger dose of these sectarian adepts and you have to have go at their irrationality.

Should not surprise us that these arguments are being used to justify Biello, the whole point is to prove Biello is right in leaving Theo off (if that is what he did).

 

Maybe a relevant post if I was in any way talking about the Premier League.

[Footyeh]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

At the risk of getting into the continual debate on here, I think that Blackpool team was better than what I have seen of Granada. 

oh god.

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

1 minute ago, Footyeh said:

oh god.

Did you watch both?

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 hours ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Did you watch both?

You've never watched Spanish football in your life. It is just country bumpkin stuff.

But why are we comparing leagues dominated by quality players representing pools able to win World Cups, Euros, youth world cups, like Germany, Italy, Spain, with a league like Championship, dominated by English footballers, who are their football inferiors?