CPL refs and "letting them play"

[jonovision]

It's clear and II think in fact reported that the league has encouraged a "let them play" outlook for its referees. My thesis is that this is a detriment to the quality of play in the league. My observations is that physical players have been taking liberties and getting away with it, while skilled and smaller players are getting bullied out of matches. 

Who's for this? Yea or nay? Certainly to my eye more matches have been ruined by teams fouling others off the park than by players flopping around or deceiving referees.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I actually think that was the case for the first two weeks of the season but that since our reffing has been more balanced..

If you look at the CPL top players by no means are we talking about brawn over brains. 

[Dicdan]

I just came here to create a thread about the reefering on the games, looks like someone was faster than me

but man, so bizarre to see too many mistakes like this

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Dicdan

[Cheeta]

Does get a bit rough at time but I think we're mostly OK with letting the lads fight through things as it were, but for all that I don't recall too many instances where tackles when beyond aggesive and into malicous, at least no more than you'd see on any given Saturday in leagues that are further up the food chain than CPL.

What I don't like seeing is this idea that clattering into an attacking player shielding the ball is something akin to defending.  Yes, it's quite normal at this level but if this league is to be a stepping stone for players to go onto bigger and better things then you can't let that sort of thing to take root.  Especially if we're developing players who may have a future in CONCACAF.  

Every player going into development leagues is at risk of developing some of the wrong things.  Bad habits as it were.  There are all sorts of them to, some physical, others mental.  And that risk is nothing new.  Developing grit and emotional fortitude aren't bad habits though.           

 

[Dicdan]

maybe VAR can be useful for next season for both CanPL and VCup

[jonovision]

4 minutes ago, Dicdan said:

maybe VAR can be useful for next season for both CanPL and VCup

I'm not ready to say that. It's frustrating as a fan when referees are so poor and the game at times resembles a lumberjacking competition more than football (I'm remembering Cavalry vs Valour in week 2 or 3) but the biggest improvements will come from the individual referees learning  to call the game at the professional level. That's part of what this league can do, I just hope it happens quickly.

[Reign]

15 minutes ago, Dicdan said:

maybe VAR can be useful for next season for both CanPL and VCup

No VAR. Apparently the biggest issue halting expansion is stadiums. Let’s not bring in VAR which needs more infrastructure and money. Don’t worry about VAR any time soon.

[Dicdan]

still about Pacific - Valour

 

[Charlesmazzz]

14 minutes ago, Dicdan said:

still about Pacific - Valour

 

No PK. Paolucci is already starting to dive after his first touch. The keeper does make contact with his defender first who then falls on top of Valour forward.

[toontownman]

It all gives our future national team players experience of what it takes to survive CONCACAF officiating. 

[jonovision]

6 minutes ago, toontownman said:

It all gives our future national team players experience of what it takes to survive CONCACAF officiating. 

CONCACAF officiating is most often the opposite of what we've seen in CPL. Instead of overly lenient it is tight and capricious.

[toontownman]

To be fair I'm newer to the scene and havent watched anything much outside of the Canada games but most I've watched they let the central Americans dive, cheat and kick the shit out of us while we try and play far too honestly.

To seriously answer you OP, it's a thin line to ruin it either way and the ref will always lose control if they let too much go. Maybe you (and alot of us) are now so acclimatized to the more modern hurl yourself to the floor and make a spectacle side of the game the more old school format sticks out more in the CPL. 

I think there is being more lenient, letting play go on and then simply bad refereeing, which I think we saw tonight and we have at different points this season(s?). I agree with @Unnamed Trialist too with it starting bad then becoming more balanced but we have had some standout l, very rough games throughout. Maybe there is more than coincidence with who is reffing?

 

[Kent]

On 8/24/2019 at 10:03 PM, Dicdan said:

maybe VAR can be useful for next season for both CanPL and VCup

In my experience VAR increases the length of games, increases the level of agitation for me when calls go wrong, decreases the pleasure of watching a game, and does nothing to lower the number of bad calls. Please, no VAR in CPL or V Cup. In fact, get rid of it in other competitions as well.

[Ams1984]

On 8/24/2019 at 8:22 PM, jonovision said:

It's clear and II think in fact reported that the league has encouraged a "let them play" outlook for its referees. My thesis is that this is a detriment to the quality of play in the league. My observations is that physical players have been taking liberties and getting away with it, while skilled and smaller players are getting bullied out of matches. 

Who's for this? Yea or nay? Certainly to my eye more matches have been ruined by teams fouling others off the park than by players flopping around or deceiving referees.

I tend towards ‘let them play’ but I think it’s been a bit much. 

[Unnamed Trialist]

I just want to say that VAR worked very well the first year in Spain. It was applied quickly, not always did the ref consult the screen as the team in the studio did the work--and then despite some early complaints, stats show that no team was affected by more than 3 points +- over the course of the entire season, fairly that is. 

More penalties were called,  more goals were called back because more were scored, since iinesmen let close possible offsides in favourable attacking plays go (so instead of calling early, they were revised afterwards). 

You need to be very comfortable with the technology. You also need to have reffing professionals who are perhaps in the forced retirement age or senior, who are in the booth, so that the level of VAR is good. The advantage in Spain, I believe, was that the reffing establishment is somewhat afraid to second guess each other, even the younger guys, so that there is a certain caution in questioning each others' decisions (a sort of corporativism), which was actually good: only clear stuff went to VAR.

We are not ready for it in CPL, and, as seen with MLS, if you can't do it right, don't bother.

[Ams1984]

16 hours ago, Kent said:

In my experience VAR increases the length of games, increases the level of agitation for me when calls go wrong, decreases the pleasure of watching a game, and does nothing to lower the number of bad calls. Please, no VAR in CPL or V Cup. In fact, get rid of it in other competitions as well.

I completely agree; VAR is just another useless level of human error that serves to 'justify' or legitimize bad reffing. No VAR!

[Unnamed Trialist]

Those opposed to VAR because it wastes time obviously do not live in a country where fans and the press argue for days or even weeks about a bad call causing a loss of points. Or a bad call gifting points to a rival. 

I prefer to take an extra 150 seconds on game day over being barraged with irate commentaries for the following week. 

VAR done right saves you having to talk all day about refs and allows you to talk about football. But in Canada, and with CPL, since we don't care, and the press does not care, it seems like a big deal to have to sit at a game for a few more minutes (when most complaining spent 20X that time before and after the game looking for parking, hanging out, drinking, trying on shirts that were too small...). At least with VAR you are sitting there waiting on a decision related to the game you paid to watch.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Those opposed to VAR because it wastes time obviously do not live in a country where fans and the press argue for days or even weeks about a bad call causing a loss of points. Or a bad call gifting points to a rival. 

I prefer to take an extra 150 seconds on game day over being barraged with irate commentaries for the following week. 

VAR done right saves you having to talk all day about refs and allows you to talk about football. But in Canada, and with CPL, since we don't care, and the press does not care, it seems like a big deal to have to sit at a game for a few more minutes (when most complaining spent 20X that time before and after the game looking for parking, hanging out, drinking, trying on shirts that were too small...). At least with VAR you are sitting there waiting on a decision related to the game you paid to watch.

To me the biggest deal about the lengthening of the game is the fact that a goal is scored, then you wait a couple minutes, not sure if it will count, and then have the ref signal that it is in fact a good goal. Now you are allowed to cheer at this very anti-climactic moment. Or if a goal is scored that you personally think might have been offside. Without VAR you give a quick glance at the assistant and see the flag down, and you cheer it 1 second after the goal was scored. With VAR you sit and wonder while the ball is walked back to half and have a mild sense of relief when the kickoff happens that it won't be reviewed.

The fact games are 5 minutes longer or whatever is just a very mild annoyance. If you are recording the game on a PVR you have to set up the following show to record to make sure you don't miss the game, etc. There is also the slippery slope concern. As they seemingly inevitably try to expand it for more and more types of calls, those 5 extra minutes becomes 10 extra minutes, maybe 15 extra minutes. All of a sudden (years later) you have 3 hour games with so much stop/start like in the NFL or MLB.

[Unnamed Trialist]

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

To me the biggest deal about the lengthening of the game is the fact that a goal is scored, then you wait a couple minutes, not sure if it will count, and then have the ref signal that it is in fact a good goal. Now you are allowed to cheer at this very anti-climactic moment. Or if a goal is scored that you personally think might have been offside. Without VAR you give a quick glance at the assistant and see the flag down, and you cheer it 1 second after the goal was scored. With VAR you sit and wonder while the ball is walked back to half and have a mild sense of relief when the kickoff happens that it won't be reviewed.

The fact games are 5 minutes longer or whatever is just a very mild annoyance. If you are recording the game on a PVR you have to set up the following show to record to make sure you don't miss the game, etc. There is also the slippery slope concern. As they seemingly inevitably try to expand it for more and more types of calls, those 5 extra minutes becomes 10 extra minutes, maybe 15 extra minutes. All of a sudden (years later) you have 3 hour games with so much stop/start like in the NFL or MLB.

I don't know, if a game that lasts three hours with long pauses, like NFL, is bogus, or silly, or a bad model for spectator sports, so is cheering for a goal like mad that should never have counted and wrongs the rival, creating a sense of grave injustice that lasts much longer than your 1 minute cheer.