CPL General

[Complete Homer]

Fairly sure that Montopoli backed up the CPL-"CSUM" connection.  I'm not really interested in an argument, but I fail to see how a high level of evidence is necessary to connect CSUM to CPL but none is required to connect it to MLS, outside of a reflexive skepticism of anything that comes from Rollins.  

Edited September 14, 2017 by Complete Homer

[Complete Homer]

4 hours ago, ChrisinOrleans said:

I'll admit, I knew like 10% of these guys. Then again, outside of French-Canada, I'm woefully ignorant of our depth.  

If I had to pick 10 guys to come play for a team in CanPL, I'd go with:

Olivier Occéan (Odds), Maxim Tissot (San Fran), Karl Ouimette (San Fran), Pierre Rudolph-Mayard (AS Blainville), Wandrille Lefèvre (Ottawa), Jérémy Gagnon-Laparé (AS Vitré), Haidar Al-Shaibani (Le Puy), André Hainault (FC Magdeburg), Phillipe Davies (CS Longueuil) and... if he's still willing to play Jonathan Beaulieu-Borgault (somewhere in the PLSQ?). 

Kind of fun to fantasize, I guess.  

How's your PLSQ knowledge? Outside of a few key guys I'm at basically zero awareness

[shermanator]

Dylon Powley with some fucking shade with this quote. For anyone who hasn't seen him play, he is a fantastic keeper. He's a great shot stopper, with quality rebound control and good distribution. I thought with Calgary Foothills he was far better than both Melvin (who I also rate highly) and Wirth.

“And, last year, we got to the final, but no one paid attention to us. The MVP? An American? The coach of the year? American. The PDL even made up a creativity award (Creative Player of the Year) that they could give to an American.”

[ChrisinOrleans]

4 hours ago, Complete Homer said:

How's your PLSQ knowledge? Outside of a few key guys I'm at basically zero awareness

I keep a running list of people from the PLSQ that I think will advance to the USL or above level. I used to cover the PLSQ for MountRoyalSoccer back before I became a dad and went back to school. 

https://www.mountroyalsoccer.com/2015/3/24/8209659/previewing-the-plsq 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

17 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

{Edit: could the El Salvador game in Houston be the first example of a Canadian SUM angle where the CMNT is concerned?}

To continue on this theme. It looks like the El Salvador game is being played in an MLS stadium and is being actively talked up on the relevant MLS website:

https://www.houstondynamo.com/post/2017/09/04/el-salvador-face-canada-international-friendly-bbva-compass-stadium-october-8

so I suspect SUM is probably involved to some extent and the Canadian SUM arrangement as mentioned in passing at one point by Victor Montagliani could easily be a way for a limited number of CMNT games in the United States to be played against Mexico or Central American teams like El Salvador with a large US based diaspora in the years ahead mainly in front of supporters of those countries to generate some cash for the CSA in a way that the Curacao game in Montreal earlier this year probably didn't. If MLS is going to profit from access to the three major markets in Canada by draining out some of their above average (OK maybe not with Montreal) revenues to prop up weaker American based teams, it's only reasonable that the CSA should be seeing a slice of the action from SUM in a similar sort of way.

It would be nice to think that there's a way to generate a similar cash bonanza in a Canadian context and float a domestic pro league on that, but the countries where we tend to have had immigration from in huge numbers post-WWII (e.g. Italy or Portugal) can usually generate more money playing at home and hence tend to charge huge appearance fees that usually put things out of reach financially. The key to SUM is taking advantage of a scenario where certain CONCACAF countries can generate more revenue for themselves by playing a game in certain cities in the United States than they can on their own soil.

[ReedOnTheGrand]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

To continue on this theme. It looks like the El Salvador game is being played in an MLS stadium and is being actively talked up on the relevant MLS website:

https://www.houstondynamo.com/post/2017/09/04/el-salvador-face-canada-international-friendly-bbva-compass-stadium-october-8

so I suspect SUM is probably involved to some extent and the Canadian SUM arrangement as mentioned in passing at one point by Victor Montagliani could easily be a way for a limited number of CMNT games in the United States to be played against Mexico or Central American teams like El Salvador with a large US based diaspora in the years ahead mainly in front of supporters of those countries to generate some cash for the CSA in a way that the Curacao game in Montreal earlier this year probably didn't. If MLS is going to profit from access to the three major markets in Canada by draining out some of their above average (OK maybe not with Montreal) revenues to prop up weaker American based teams, it's only reasonable that the CSA should be seeing a slice of the action from SUM in a similar sort of way.

It would be nice to think that there's a way to generate a similar cash bonanza in a Canadian context and float a domestic pro league on that, but the countries where we tend to have had immigration from in huge numbers post-WWII (e.g. Italy or Portugal) can usually generate more money playing at home and hence tend to charge huge appearance fees that usually put things out of reach financially. The key to SUM is taking advantage of a scenario where certain CONCACAF countries can generate more revenue for themselves by playing a game in certain cities in the United States than they can on their own soil.

Seeing as El Salvador is hosting it I don't see cSUM involved much if at all with that game.

[Rheo]

On Soccer Today yesterday, Rollins talked about the CPL meetings and said it's looking increasingly more likely that it'll be a 2019 launch.

He also talked about the Hamilton game and said he was told that the game was being used as a test for a Canadian SUM idea, to show potential investors that while they may take losses as the local level for a period of time it'd be offset by events like this.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Rheo

[Complete Homer]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

On Soccer Today yesterday, Rollins talked about the CPL meetings and said it's looking increasingly more likely that it'll be a 2019 launch.

He also talked about the Hamilton game and said he was told that the game was being used as a test for a Canadian SUM idea, to show potential investors that while they may take losses as the local level for a period of time it'd be offset by events like this.

Well dang, now I feel like crap that I'm call that night. 

[Gopherbashi]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

On Soccer Today yesterday, Rollins talked about the CPL meetings and said it's looking increasingly more likely that it'll be a 2019 launch.

He also talked about the Hamilton game and said he was told that the game was being used as a test for a Canadian SUM idea, to show potential investors that while they may take losses as the local level for a period of time it'd be offset by events like this.

Yeah, with how "slow and steady" this whole thing has been, I'd be shocked at this point if they rushed for a 2018 start.

@admin #CanPL2019 shirts please

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 hours ago, ReedOnTheGrand said:

Seeing as El Salvador is hosting it I don't see cSUM involved much if at all with that game.

My understanding (and happy to be told why I am wrong as I am throwing it out there for exactly this sort of scrutiny) is that the way SUM gets involved in all of this is that El Salvador need the USSF sanctioning to be able to play a FIFA sanctioned game in the USSF's jurisdiction. That means the USSF can get a big slice of the action financially. SUM has been the vehicle used for doing that and USSF/SUM/MLS have cashed in big time on Mexico and others playing "home games" across the United States. The CSA's possible way in on that cash bonanza is for the CMNT to provide the opponent for these games sometimes.

[Complete Homer]

29 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Yeah, with how "slow and steady" this whole thing has been, I'd be shocked at this point if they rushed for a 2018 start.

@admin #CanPL2019 shirts please

Have to think that Hamilton's situation might have been the last straw, considering Beirne apparently said that 2018 was still more likely than not in Regina last month

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

1 hour ago, Rheo said:

On Soccer Today yesterday, Rollins talked about the CPL meetings and said it's looking increasingly more likely that it'll be a 2019 launch...

If he put a name or a description on a source it becomes a solid nugget of info. The absence of a Soccer Nova Scotia game in Halifax and the stadium lease issues in Hamilton could be used to reach that conclusion in the absence of anyone on the inside saying anything.

I don't think the Benfica Rangers game would work in the manner that is being tried anywhere more than an hour's drive from the GTA (provides 300k or so relatively recent Portuguese and Scottish/Northern Ireland immigrants in a way that Saskatoon or Halifax clearly doesn't), so how does this prove anything to anyone other than Bob Young is an obvious question? Maybe Barry McLean on the issue of a K/W pop-up or someone actually in the GTA?

[Rheo]

Good to see some things will never change in the constant doubting of Rollins with no basis other than it's from him lol

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

He has been wrong about a lot of things, so doesn't have a great track record, in my opinion. The same comment can be made about Totera (probably more so in his case) who earlier this year was claiming an announcement was days away when fan group people were stating on here that PB had told them nothing would happen until the AGM in May.

Edited September 15, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Ansem]

[Complete Homer]

What has Rollins been demonstrably wrong about other than launch/announcement dates, which could easily have been true at the time of reporting? Maybe he jumps with info earlier than a mainstream media member would, which hurts him in the end, but up to this point he hasn't seemed to be off the mark often. The Edmonton thing is probably the closest, but that's more conflicting sources between him and Sandor than anything

The guy was the first to report on this, has been able to break stories before in the past, etc. It isn't gospel, but in the absence of contradictory evidence it seems like some take anything he says as an indication that the opposite is true, rather than just taking it with the appropriate grain of salt.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Complete Homer

[Rheo]

As I've hypothesized they (Rollins, Totera) get fed info because the CPL wants to keep us, the hardcore base at first excited and then engaged.  It's worked as the numerous supporters groups has shown.  However the forming of a league is a fluid situation and things change all the time (ie the Hamilton stadium mess) and that has made them look bad at times.  No one is saying what they say is gospel but to automatically dismiss anything and everything they say is just ridiculous in my opinion.  

I know we're never going to agree on this BBTB so I'll leave it at that.  Cheers 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Rheo

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

7 minutes ago, Rheo said:

As I've hypothesized they get fed info because the CPL wants to keep us, the hardcore base at first excited and then engaged...

Has it worked if that's what they are doing? When CUSL was being discussed on here there was way more excitement from a much broader spectrum of board users. I doubt we actually matter all that much in the big scheme of things. Would they have 10 people working in an office in downtown Toronto, if it wasn't reasonably close to being an all systems go? Probably not. You can tell a lot more from actions than words sometimes.

Edited September 15, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Kent]

29 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

I don't think the Benfica Rangers game would work in the manner that is being tried anywhere more than an hour's drive from the GTA (provides 300k or so relatively recent Portuguese and Scottish/Northern Ireland immigrants in a way that Saskatoon or Halifax clearly doesn't), so how does this prove anything to anyone other than Bob Young is an obvious question? Maybe Barry McLean on the issue of a K/W pop-up or someone actually in the GTA?

Let's not forget there were 15,000 people watching Valencia vs New York Cosmos in Regina this summer. Are there a lot of Spanish immigrants in Regina?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Was the floor price for a seat $100 there? What you really need to cash in SUM style with exhorbitant ticket prices that only recent immigrants will pay is a stadium with grass and 30,000 seats like BMO Field in the GTA. Maybe they are trying to see if THF can do the job, but would the entire future of the league really hinge on that?

Edited September 15, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Complete Homer]

The enthusiasm isn't on this board because users have gotten sick of the negativity, not because the Voyageurs aren't engaged

[matty]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

To continue on this theme. It looks like the El Salvador game is being played in an MLS stadium and is being actively talked up on the relevant MLS website:

https://www.houstondynamo.com/post/2017/09/04/el-salvador-face-canada-international-friendly-bbva-compass-stadium-october-8

so I suspect SUM is probably involved to some extent and the Canadian SUM arrangement as mentioned in passing at one point by Victor Montagliani could easily be a way for a limited number of CMNT games in the United States to be played against Mexico or Central American teams like El Salvador with a large US based diaspora in the years ahead mainly in front of supporters of those countries to generate some cash for the CSA in a way that the Curacao game in Montreal earlier this year probably didn't. If MLS is going to profit from access to the three major markets in Canada by draining out some of their above average (OK maybe not with Montreal) revenues to prop up weaker American based teams, it's only reasonable that the CSA should be seeing a slice of the action from SUM in a similar sort of way.

It would be nice to think that there's a way to generate a similar cash bonanza in a Canadian context and float a domestic pro league on that, but the countries where we tend to have had immigration from in huge numbers post-WWII (e.g. Italy or Portugal) can usually generate more money playing at home and hence tend to charge huge appearance fees that usually put things out of reach financially. The key to SUM is taking advantage of a scenario where certain CONCACAF countries can generate more revenue for themselves by playing a game in certain cities in the United States than they can on their own soil.

-El Salvador is a terrible team to try and generate funds again because of how fickle their fanbase is when it comes to showing up.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

4 minutes ago, matty said:

-El Salvador is a terrible team to try and generate funds again because of how fickle their fanbase is when it comes to showing up.

Was reading somewhere that they have to play games like this in cities like Houston precisely because they might get a crowd there paying decent coin in a way they almost certainly wouldn't in San Salvador for a game like this. The spending power of Mexican and Central American fans in the US is what drives the finances of SUM. The real moneyspinner is Mexico obviously.

Edited September 15, 2017 by BringBackTheBlizzard

[Rheo]

CUSL is before my time following Canadian soccer as closely as I do now.  

Not asking sarcastically because I truly don't know but in the as you put it "way more excitement" on the CUSL discussions previously was there numerous supporters groups across the country for teams that don't exist?  

Honestly though it's rather silly to argue over the level of excitement on the board of CPL vs CUSL, then vs now isn't it lol.

As for your contention that the league might still be going in 2018 despite what Rollins said I honestly wouldn't be surprised.  I've said on here I think something big is going to be announced in the near future based on circumstantial evidence (Rollins' previously mentioned magazine article he's writing that's being released in the fall, Beirne speaking at Footy Talks, the Milton article on the office)

15 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

 I doubt we actually matter all that much in the big scheme of things. 

I will say that I totally disagree with this.  They have repeatedly kept stressing the importance of atmosphere and the gameday experience and they shown the commitment to that with the outreach they've shown to the existing supporters groups.  They know that the hardcore base is of a great importance as we're going to be the ones who set the stage and make the casuals either want to come back or become hardcores themselves.

[harrycoyster]

12 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The enthusiasm isn't on this board because users have gotten sick of the negativity, not because the Voyageurs aren't engaged

I just feel like we have exhausted every possible topic of conversation. I'm still engaged, but since we haven't gotten official word about anything in months, this board just ends up arguing in circles.