CONCACAF Nations League

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

I'd have thought that a preferred format would've leaked out by now. 

I came to the conclusion over the weekend that there were precisely zero media in Aruba for this, nor were there any media on the outside even giving two $hits what happened.  Unlike the FIFA congress there's no broadcast for this and CONCACAF's not making an official announcement because the commercial side of it isn't done yet.  Vic said it was the format being agreed.  Therefore it's a bit like some trees falling in the woods with nobody there to hear them.  Hopefully it will leak out sometime soon.

Edited April 12, 2017 by CanadianSoccerFan

[matty]

3 hours ago, CanadianSoccerFan said:

I came to the conclusion over the weekend that there were precisely zero media in Aruba for this, nor were there any media on the outside even giving two $hits what happened.  Unlike the FIFA congress there's no broadcast for this and CONCACAF's not making an official announcement because the commercial side of it isn't done yet.  Vic said it was the format being agreed.  Therefore it's a bit like some trees falling in the woods with nobody there to hear them.  Hopefully it will leak out sometime soon.

I now wish i had gone to aruba to cover this congress ........and drink.

[Watchmen]

I don't think this will eliminate all friendlies for the US at all, simply reduce them.  The US has never been afraid to schedule friendlies on non-FIFA dates, and I'd expect this to continue.  And the quality of the team they play matters less to them (financially) than the name of the team.  In other words, they could schedule a game against a "name" team from Africa/South America/Asia and even if that team comes in with a less then full strength roster because guys aren't released, they won't care.

[Lou]

Google translate.

 

http://www.laprensagrafica.com/2017/04/10/fesfut-conocio-de-la-liga-de-naciones-de-concacaf

This was published the day after the meeting.

Quote

The previous Friday, the organization's president, Victor Montagliani, announced that he plans to create the League of Nations, a competition that would be played among the 41 selected members during FIFA dates.

[Vice-Chairman of the FESFUT (El Salvador) Executive Committee, Victor Zenón Gómez said] "We have to sit down and talk to the president (of FESFUT, Jorge Rajo) to see what was said as a council," said the federation.

Although the news has not gone beyond an announcement, the leader of the federation considers the idea of Montagliani positive, although he hopes that the CONCACAF will provide them with more information.

"Yes, we really know about this (the proposal), but they did not give more details about it. We will pass all the information, already planned everything, already ordered.It was really only an announcement for the creation of that league" , Added Gómez, after being in the congress.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Lou

[coppercanuck]

Assuming the 6 teams that didn't participate in the 2017 Caribbean Cup stay idle, then that bottom tier would a bit variable.

I like the idea.  More games = more experienced players.  

[matty]

worth a read

http://www.itsroundanditswhite.co.uk/2017/04/12/nations-league-bad-idea-concacaf/

 

[youllneverwalkalone]

It's hard to say it's a bad idea when we know none of the details. I would love to know many of these 4th tier UEFA nations get a result in Honduras with something on the line. My guess is none, ever.

[matty]

22 minutes ago, youllneverwalkalone said:

It's hard to say it's a bad idea when we know none of the details. I would love to know many of these 4th tier UEFA nations get a result in Honduras with something on the line. My guess is none, ever.

While I agree about 4th tier, I think there are a ton of 3rd tier UEFA nations that could

[Watchmen]

I'm not sure why any Canadian soccer fans would be opposed to this.  It's more games for Canada against regional opponents, and presumably more games IN Canada.  It's everything everyone has wanted for ages now.

[matty]

11 minutes ago, Watchmen said:

I'm not sure why any Canadian soccer fans would be opposed to this.  It's more games for Canada against regional opponents, and presumably more games IN Canada.  It's everything everyone has wanted for ages now.

it isn't exactly. there's a decent chance canada ends up not playing the central american nations it needs to figure out and ends up playing minnows and non-fifa sides who can't draw worth a dime in canada

[Guest]

"Montagliani’s statement is patently ridiculous. Mexico and the United States are not better off playing the bulk of their matches, meaningful or not, against the likes of St Kitts, Turks and Caicos, or Guadeloupe rather than South American or European powers. If Floyd Mayweather had sparred against WWE patsy James Ellsworth for his entire career, would he have become a world champion? Certainly not. To quote another famous wrestler, Rick Flair, “to be the man, you have to beat the man.”

 

This is where it put me off. The writer obviously does not know how the format will work as Mexico/USA won't be facing teams of that quality.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Guest

[Kent]

11 hours ago, canta15 said:

"Montagliani’s statement is patently ridiculous. Mexico and the United States are not better off playing the bulk of their matches, meaningful or not, against the likes of St Kitts, Turks and Caicos, or Guadeloupe rather than South American or European powers. If Floyd Mayweather had sparred against WWE patsy James Ellsworth for his entire career, would he have become a world champion? Certainly not. To quote another famous wrestler, Rick Flair, “to be the man, you have to beat the man.”

 

This is where it put me off. The writer obviously does not know how the format will work as Mexico/USA won't be facing teams of that quality.

He also doesn't seem to understand that some of the CONCACAF nations aren't FIFA members because of their ties to other countries. He lists the teams that haven't played a FIFA sanctioned match in 4 years, but doesn't realize the reason.

His belief about why this won't work for CONCACAF may (or may not) be correct, but he definitely has some flaws in how he is trying to support his argument.

[matty]

Just spoke with Anguilla's FA president about the league. Learned some interesting things that explain why this league is needed

[Floortom]

13 minutes ago, matty said:

Just spoke with Anguilla's FA president about the league. Learned some interesting things that explain why this league is needed

It's a good thing you didn't post these interesting things.

[matty]

1 minute ago, Floortom said:

It's a good thing you didn't post these interesting things.

I'm writing a more detailed account now should be up in a few days. forgive my teasing

Edited April 18, 2017 by matty

[Lou]

https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/04/18/concacaf-league-nations-world-cup-qualifying-usa-mexico

Summary: CONCACAF are mindful of not removing the need for USA vs. Mexico World Cup qualifying matches with the CONCACAF Nations League. No new information. 

[CanadianSoccerFan]

1 hour ago, Lou said:

https://www.si.com/planet-futbol/2017/04/18/concacaf-league-nations-world-cup-qualifying-usa-mexico

Summary: CONCACAF are mindful of not removing the need for USA vs. Mexico World Cup qualifying matches with the CONCACAF Nations League. No new information. 

The part about the winner potentially advancing directly to the final round of World Cup Qualifying is interesting.

[matty]

http://www.royalgazette.com/soccer/article/20170425/bermuda-set-to-gain-from-league-of-nations

While it mentions the 41 members I'm guessing non-FIFA sides will either be excluded or have to join fifa

Edited April 25, 2017 by matty

[Kent]

19 minutes ago, matty said:

http://www.royalgazette.com/soccer/article/20170425/bermuda-set-to-gain-from-league-of-nations

While it mentions the 41 members I'm guessing non-FIFA sides will either be excluded or have to join fifa

I doubt they would have to join FIFA. I think they would be included in the league of nations (and Gold Cup), but excluded from WCQ just like they are now.

I have to say, I'm starting to come around to this league of nations idea. I had heard about the European one before this thread started but I was sceptical about it, although I didn't know how it was planned to work (with multiple groups per tier, and multiple tiers, promotion/relegation). I think this has the potential to be pretty cool. It will be interesting to see how qualifying for Gold Cups and World Cups will be handled.

[matty]

Just now, Kent said:

I doubt they would have to join FIFA. I think they would be included in the league of nations (and Gold Cup), but excluded from WCQ just like they are now.

Likely but I can hope. CONCACAF has far too many of them. If they use these games are related to the WCQ, they shouldn't be there. Gold Cup sure.

[Zem]

19 minutes ago, matty said:

Likely but I can hope. CONCACAF has far too many of them. If they use these games are related to the WCQ, they shouldn't be there. Gold Cup sure.

CONCACAF has exactly 6 of them, and only 3 are competitive against most teams in the federation, so there's not that many of them at all, actually.

I don't really understand what your opposition to them playing in the Nations League is though, ultimately French Guinana, Guadeloupe and Martinique only provide better competition overall. Although playing against a FIFA member offers an opportunity to earn points, they're still only opportunities, you still need to actually win or draw otherwise it's a net negative compared to playing a non-FIFA side or not playing a game at all.

I also can't imagine this would have anything to do with WCQ since one of the general principles, if not actual requirements for WCQs is that every team involved has to have a chance to qualify every campaign. If anything it might eventually replace Gold Cup qualifying, although from what's been said so far it sounds like CONCACAF is just planning for it to be its own thing for now.

[matty]

55 minutes ago, Zem said:

CONCACAF has exactly 6 of them, and only 3 are competitive against most teams in the federation, so there's not that many of them at all, actually.

6 of 41 members is more than an eighth. CAF (which has 56 members) has only 2 while AFC (47 members) has only 1. CONCACAF has unusually high number of non-FIFA sides and they're all full members of CONCACAF unlike the ones in CAF (with 1 exception), AFC and even OFC.

1 hour ago, Zem said:

I don't really understand what your opposition to them playing in the Nations League is though

I'm not totally opposed to them being involved. But if it is to decide qualifying, I think they should be kept out for years it's used for WCQ. I don't think that's radical or unreasonable.

I also know some of the weaker CONCACAF nations don't want to play them because even if they win they're still rock bottom teams in the rankings and I'm kind of sympathetic to them.

1 hour ago, Zem said:

I also can't imagine this would have anything to do with WCQ since one of the general principles, if not actual requirements for WCQs is that every team involved has to have a chance to qualify every campaign. If anything it might eventually replace Gold Cup qualifying, although from what's been said so far it sounds like CONCACAF is just planning for it to be its own thing for now.

Mostly agree but do think it will determine when you enter WCQ.

[CanadianSoccerFan]

From the Royal Gazette article posted above:

The format, Montagliani said, will have the member associations split into several leagues, according to their strength, with promotion and relegations at the end of the four-year cycle.

He added that the League of Nations rankings would then determine which teams qualify for the World Cup and Gold Cup. Although the competition will almost certainly mean fewer friendlies, Montagliani stressed that there would still be room in the international calendar for countries to arrange games should they wish.

“The format was passed by our competitions committee and we need to go a couple of more steps and then hopefully we’ll be in a position to unveil it by the end of the year,” Montagliani said. “It will give countries that may have a harder time getting friendlies more competitive matches. What we’re hoping is for a country like Bermuda to have in the 30 to 36 range over a four-year cycle.”

 

Another hint that the league of nations will tie in with World Cup qualifying.

[One American]

For Canada, it might be good. For the USA it's a disaster. Although with Bruce Arena as coach, we'll probably go back to playing Haiti three times a year one way or the other. 

Edited April 26, 2017 by One American

[matty]

34 minutes ago, One American said:

For Canada, it might be good. For the USA it's a disaster. Although with Bruce Arena as coach, we'll probably go back to playing Haiti three times a year one way or the other. 

I think that worry has been caused by an overreaction from US media and not facts. Due to the tiered system the US will not be playing weak nations at any point. Instead the US will play the usual hex nations for the most part. These nations are strong and can draw crowds in the United States. As an added plus, the USMNT will likely have to play more games outside of the US, something they don't often do outside of WCQ and struggle with.

They're not really losing challenging competition or drawing ability and are going to get to work on one of their weaknesses. I would hardly call it a disaster for them.

Edited April 26, 2017 by matty