matty Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 With all the talk of a CONCACAF-CONEMBOL merger, I found this report interesting. According to the Daily Mail (so be cautious of how serious this is), the Caribbean Football Union is considering leaving CONCACAF to form its own confederation. "...The Caribbean Football Union, who represent 31 of CONCACAF's 41 national associations, are considering breaking away and forming a seventh FIFA confederation. They see this as a way of improving their TV revenues, which have been squeezed by three successive CONCACAF presidents from Caribbean countries facing numerous corruption charges that include allegedly helping themselves to the region's TV rights money." Unlikely to happen but interesting. If it did it's likely they would get 1-2 spots in the World Cup http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4106768/FIFA-lost-10-000-watches-six-timepieces-went-missing.html#ixzz4VPS92tfn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Even if CFU wanted to proceed with this, are FIFA obliged to create a new confederation on request? I think not. It would open the door to group(s) of weaker African or Asian countries creating their own confederation to ensure one of them would get a spot in the World Cup. We've already got Oceania ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 FIFA will say no and the case will be close Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvroArrow Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Even if they did some how split, FIFA could just say they get 1/4 of a spot. CAF winner plays Oceania winner, with the winner of that series playing the 5th place South American team in a two game aggregate series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Oceania in the new format gets 1 spot as of 2026, by Oceania I meant New Zealand! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyslexic nam Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 If part of the rationale relates to the "three successive CONCACAF presidents from Caribbean countries facing numerous corruption charges", I am not sure how splitting off and isolating yourself from the block of people not involved in corruption would help that situation. The corruption charges have come from officials in that region - having them no longer subject to the checks and balances imposed by other members of the confederation seems like an even less optimal situation from an accountability perspective. Given the timing, this seems more like a way to try and leverage the announced WC expansion into a guaranteed regional spot - much like Oceanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 12, 2017 Author Share Posted January 12, 2017 1 hour ago, ray said: Even if CFU wanted to proceed with this, are FIFA obliged to create a new confederation on request? I think not. It would open the door to group(s) of weaker African or Asian countries creating their own confederation to ensure one of them would get a spot in the World Cup. We've already got Oceania ... Asia becoming 2 confederations makes sense 1 hour ago, Ansem said: FIFA will say no and the case will be close Basically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 I love the reasoning here. They will get more money if they rid themselves of the more populous and prosperous countries in the region, because they will presumably only elect honest leaders... even though they already hold all the voting power in the region if they decide to vote in a block, and all of the corrupted officials they are complaining about are from the region that they want to split off with. I imagine if somehow they tried to go through with this, and FIFA approved it, they would still only get a half spot in the World Cup, at least until 2026. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 The financial reasoning given in the report is nonsensical. CONCACAF's finances are entirely dependent on the Gold Cup which netted the confederation $66 million in 2015. Without it they'd be broke. An independent Caribbean confederation would have to fund itself with no such lucrative revenue stream. This is driven by either a desire to guarantee Caribbean representation at the World Cup or some Warner/Webb wannabes want to set up their own corrupt empire outside of the clutches of the United States government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJB Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 On 2017-01-12 at 7:09 AM, Ansem said: Oceania in the new format gets 1 spot as of 2026, by Oceania I meant New Zealand! Tahiti won the 2012 Nations Cup. New Zealand is not infallible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Things are heating up. I hope they realize that leaving CONCACAF leaves them with zero revenue to fight and complain over. January 23 – FIFA could be facing the request for the formation of a seventh confederation after an executive committee meeting of the Caribbean Football Union (CFU) in Antigua at the weekend agreed to look to explore the prospects for a breakaway of the 31 Caribbean nations from the 41-member CONCACAF confederation. If a vote were to be taken to today it is likely that the Caribbean federations would vote to split from CONCACAF by as many as 24 votes to seven, such is the strength of the anger in the Caribbean region at being marginalised via a divide and conquer strategy devised in the US and led by CONCACAF president Victor Montagliani. CFU president Gordon Derrick raised the proposal of a CFU breakaway from its north and central American neighbours following growing rumours in the region that the Caribbean nations were tired of being dictated to by a confederation that has restricted funding to almost zero, removed the CFU from any meaningful involvement in confederation decision making, and repeatedly attempted to meddle in elections. “What I am looking for is to get a feeling from the members,” said Derrick. “A seed was planted. Now there has to be a discussion as to the pros and cons, how it would happen and what it might look like, as well as the legal process.” Speaking to the meeting Derrick made the point the “we were promised development for our youth, we were promised a treatment as equals but we received nothing but crumbs if that. True to the tradition that sadly governed our region for far too long, we were the water carriers of countries much larger than ours, we were expected to deliver when they called and we were to succumb to the interests that were not and are not ours to this day.” There is no doubt that the Caribbean has been increasingly marginalised by a politically aggressive CONCACAF that has removed its access to funding at all levels from development to competitions to grants for its administrative offices. CONCACAF receives money from sponsors and FIFA grants, that include the Caribbean, but very little of that is passed on and the prevailing CONCACAF view is that the Caribbean cannot be trusted to run it own affairs in the way that it wants. But what CONCACAF wants – a compliant and subservient Caribbean – is not what the Caribbean appears prepared to accept. The Caribbean with its 31 members is in a battle for control of its region at a time when the widely held belief in the region is that it is being made to pay for the conduct of two of CONCACAF’s presidents – Jack Warner and Jeffrey Webb – who were indicted in the US Department of Justice corruption investigations into FIFA. While Warner and Webb endlessly hived off money for their own personal gain, the rest of the Caribbean suffered financially. With the subsequent vice-like grip CONCACAF has held over money for the Caribbean region, it has reached the point where the CFU and a bulk of its member associations have taken the view that they have little to lose but everything to gain from a breakaway – notwithstanding the moral issue of breaking off the imposed football slave chains of the north American overlords. An analogy that is not lost in the Caribbean nations. For the CFU executive committee to agree to looking at breakaway options is in itself a major step forward with a number of supporters of president Montagliani and the US administration on that 11-person board. The battle lines within the Caribbean are coming clearer. While CONCACAF’s thinly disguised attempts to bring the region under their total control have had partial success by bringing under its wing certain key figures in the region, the unity of the whole Caribbean will now be tested and could very well have the last word. http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2017/01/23/caribbean-seeks-end-football-slavery-opens-talks-concacaf-breakaway/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 How did Montagliani get elected if so many CFU members are apparently against him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: How did Montagliani get elected if so many CFU members are apparently against him? If he had all of North and Central America, Montagliani only needed 11 of the 31 votes in the Carribbean. He got votes from the bigger nations in the Caribbean and some smaller. Derrick is just salty that he was disqualified by the ethics commitee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 3 hours ago, Gopherbashi said: How did Montagliani get elected if so many CFU members are apparently against him? Kinda stated in the article, apparently some form of divide and conquer was employed by the US and Victor. Basically made promises to the nations he needed to win to get elected and didn't bother with the ones he didn't need. That said, not sure how true that actually is. Make no mistake, this move has nothing to do with actually wanting a vested improvement in the game and region. It's a pure political play because someone who isn't going to tolerate business as usual for the region got in. There is no way FIFA is going to let these nations leave CONCACAF with 10 teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 At least 3 more cfu teams are gonna get some real gold cup money and they're getting another team in the ccl system. If the rest wanna kiss they're bi-yearly $100-200k of gold cup money goodbye i say let em if they really really wanna do this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 My worry is the politics of their superior voting numbers would enable them to take a silly number of WC berths with them when leaving CONCACAF. For the 48 team world cup I think 1 or 1.5 is most realistic but if some silly number like 2 or 2.5 happens I wouldn't be surprised. If a split happens before 2022 world cup qualifying then it could be really bad for us. The Caribbean might take a full spot in Qatar leaving the remainder of CONCACAF with only 2.5. Even going down to 3 is a huge kick in the nuts for a team like us. Ugh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 42 minutes ago, -Hammer- said: Kinda stated in the article, apparently some form of divide and conquer was employed by the US and Victor. Basically made promises to the nations he needed to win to get elected and didn't bother with the ones he didn't need. That said, not sure how true that actually is. Make no mistake, this move has nothing to do with actually wanting a vested improvement in the game and region. It's a pure political play because someone who isn't going to tolerate business as usual for the region got in. There is no way FIFA is going to let these nations leave CONCACAF with 10 teams. Sounds great; Canada & US can join UEFA, Latin America can join CONMEBOL, and CFU can do its own thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: Sounds great; Canada & US can join UEFA, Latin America can join CONMEBOL, and CFU can do its own thing. If Kazakhstan and Israel can get in then why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 More from Charles Sale of the Daily Mail who first reported on the breakaway weeks ago. It's remarkable how in spite of the Caribbean ruling CONCACAF unopposed since 1990, history has been revised to mention "years of oppression" from the evil North Americans. FFS, Vic has been in charge for all of 10 minutes and he's expanding the gold cup to 16 and pushing for a 24 team Copa America to help the Caribbean. Did Warner or Webb do that???? NO! The first move has been made towards a Caribbean football breakaway aimed at forming a seventh confederation so the region can fully recover from years of corruption. Antigua's Gordon Derrick, president of the Caribbean Football Union, was given the go-ahead after an executive committee summit in Miami to prepare the road map for the 31-strong CFU to split from North and Central America's CONCACAF and become the Caribbean Football Confederation. The blueprint is understood to have the support of 26 of the Caribbean territories who are fed up with being dictated to by the American and Canadian powerbrokers on CONCACAF and want the freedom to fund their own youth development. This includes setting up annual junior tournaments that had been blocked. The CFU have been the main casualty of having three successive rogue CONCACAF presidents in Jack Warner, Jeffrey Webb and Alfredo Hawit, whose serial fraud charges include syphoning off TV rights money that could have transformed Caribbean football. Derrick's powerful address in Miami said a new way had to be found following years of oppression despite the CFU comprising 31 of CONCACAF's 41 representatives. This second-class status has led to Caribbean football achieving only a fraction of what it could do as a formidable independent force on FIFA. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-4149482/Caribbean-nations-prepare-plans-breakaway-CONCACAF.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 Why are these breakaway meetings being held in Miami? I feel like the Declaration of Independence would have been a touch less sincere if penned in Blackpool. Are they hoping Vic gives them all a bribe to stay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killgod Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 I'd be curious to see the outcome if they did. Give them a spot to squabble over, whatever, with 48 teams they can have one. The question is then, do we become a 10 nation condederation with Central America? Or a 20 nation Americas confederation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 24, 2017 Share Posted January 24, 2017 2 hours ago, killgod said: I'd be curious to see the outcome if they did. Give them a spot to squabble over, whatever, with 48 teams they can have one. The question is then, do we become a 10 nation condederation with Central America? Or a 20 nation Americas confederation? I think this would make a North and South merger less likely. A combined region would only get around 10 or 11 WC berths making it even more difficult than it is now for much of the remaining CONCACAF teams to qualify. They would never go for that. Besides, the benefits of a merger (combined Copa America) can be achieved through increased cooperation with none of the qualification risks and travel headaches. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 The problem is that OFC needs to be abolished or have more teams added from Asia. Australia should never have been allowed to leave that confederation. One spot for those nations? Even 0.5 under the current format seems ridiculous. Any winner from that confederation should have to truly qualify like in 1994 when Australia had to play us and then Argentina after us. Of course the Caribbean is going to want to split.. they've qualified 4 teams in 20 World Cups. And almost certainly with OFC as a standard you really can't argue that they deserve AT LEAST 1.5 spots with 31 nations and being significantly stronger than OFC. I think the reasonable thing to do would be give one spot between OFC and CFU if this is going to come to light, keep everything reasonable. But then where does that leave CONCACAF? Are we going to have 3.5 spots for 10 teams? Doesn't make much sense when three of those teams are Guatemala, Belize and Nicaragua. I just can't see FIFA going along with this. It throws the whole balance out of whack and will put question marks on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 25, 2017 Share Posted January 25, 2017 2 hours ago, Keegan said: The problem is that OFC needs to be abolished or have more teams added from Asia. Australia should never have been allowed to leave that confederation. One spot for those nations? Even 0.5 under the current format seems ridiculous. Any winner from that confederation should have to truly qualify like in 1994 when Australia had to play us and then Argentina after us. Of course the Caribbean is going to want to split.. they've qualified 4 teams in 20 World Cups. And almost certainly with OFC as a standard you really can't argue that they deserve AT LEAST 1.5 spots with 31 nations and being significantly stronger than OFC. I think the reasonable thing to do would be give one spot between OFC and CFU if this is going to come to light, keep everything reasonable. But then where does that leave CONCACAF? Are we going to have 3.5 spots for 10 teams? Doesn't make much sense when three of those teams are Guatemala, Belize and Nicaragua. I just can't see FIFA going along with this. It throws the whole balance out of whack and will put question marks on everything. One of the solutions floated for the Oceania problem is splitting Asia east and west with Oceania joining the east. There are already divisions between the two regions. The west resents the east taking all the world cup berths and they want Australia kicked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 27, 2017 Author Share Posted January 27, 2017 Vic responds to the CFU spilt talk http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Montagliani-snubs-detractors--pushes-on-with-One-CONCACAF-manifesto_87704 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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