CanadianSoccerFan Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 21 hours ago, matty said: Vic responds to the CFU spilt talk http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/sport/Montagliani-snubs-detractors--pushes-on-with-One-CONCACAF-manifesto_87704 Paul Nicholson of Inside World Football has it out for him. He wrote this editorial containing several outright lies and distortions yet lectures the readers about facts and bizarre Donald Trump analogies. Editorial: Islands in the sun that aren’t afraid of the dark 25th January 2017 Within an hour of our story being published about the discussion of a CFU breakaway from CONCACAF there was talk on Twitter of how many places the Caribbean could have for the World Cup – anything from 1.5 to 3.5, and why not? The current FIFA presidency is defined by appealing to the lowest common denominator of more money for each and every federation and increased World Cup places. It is somewhat in keeping with the times and FIFA that the Caribbean conversation starts to happen now. After all, the Oceania Football Confederation look likely to get a guaranteed World Cup place and play-off. The Caribbean could argue that with its larger membership and competitive nations it should be at least on par. But when the news broke it also caused a minor hurricane in football’s political circles in the region. It would cause a major Tsunami across the world if the Caribbean decided that breakaway and self-determination was the best way forward to develop their football talent. The reactions of some of football’s leaders within the CFU, and wider, seem to be more to do with the news being leaked from the executive committee meeting rather than any analysis of the issues at stake. It may also have a lot to do with personal rather than national interest. One can’t help feeling that those shouting loudest about this being a ridiculous idea are in danger of missing the point. So, cutting through the noise – and there will likely be more of it but I’ll come to that later – what actually is the situation? Firstly, there was no commitment to breaking away from CONCACAF by the CFU. But there was a commitment to learning more and discussion about what it could look like – hopefully a little more balanced than the reaction to the news that a discussion was now on the table, at least in an exploratory form, The rumour of a breakaway has been circulating for some months, it was even floated in the Jamaica Observer newspaper as something that needed to be discussed by a former Jamaican and FIFA football official in the week before the CFU met. Conversations with a number of football people across the islands confirm that feelings are strong and deep about the need for meaningful support and development from a regional governing body. So it was somewhat inevitable that breakaway talk would at some point get on to a meeting agenda – it would be neglect if it hadn’t done considering the current political and financial position of Caribbean football. The Caribbean as a unified 31 nation block (25 at FIFA) is a small but significant group in football’s political circles. But it is a significance that has never translated through to the region on a proportional scale in terms of its football programmes – where it has proved it can be a force at world level with its politicians, on the pitch it just hasn’t lived up to its athletic potential. The biggest reason for that is that no-one has invested consistently or coherently in a region where the cash seemed to disappear, more often that not before it even hit the federation accounts. The last two presidents of CONCACAF from the Caribbean creamed off the money and the islands, unfairly, look like they are being made to pay the price for their self-enrichment. How much penance do they have to pay collectively for the sins of brothers Warner and Webb? The new leadership of CONCACAF quite rightly doesn’t want a return to the old days and ways. It also, quite wrongly, has set a course that deprives the Caribbean Football Union (CFU) of cash to run its activities, involves itself in elections by backing ‘friendly’ candidates, has taken control of Caribbean cup competitions as though the CFU didn’t exist, and has revamped its own competitions in a way that makes it difficult for anything more than minor participation of Caribbean teams at the region’s top football table (and this is just in the last couple of months). A fair deal for the Caribbean in football’s new world order? Or perhaps an echo of President Trump’s “America first. America first”. But was it really ever any different? CONCACAF would (and does) vehemently argue that this is not the case and a distortion of the reality of the situation. It would almost be a believable defence if it weren’t for the unbelievable lengths CONCACAF and its administration have gone to sideline and emaciate the CFU. CONCACAF will be screaming ‘alternative fact’ (‘fake news’ is really the phrase of current time) but their actions point to a different story of fakery – one that has driven the breakaway discussion on to the CFU agenda. One of CONCACAF’s ruling elite actually told this writer after the confederation had elected its new president Victor Montagliani in Mexico City last May, that the plan was to “bring the Caribbean under control.” That implies that the Caribbean was out of control – some kind of naughty talented child that needs to be reigned in and taught how to behave. Inflammatory rhetoric? Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. It looks like a significant chunk of the Caribbean might have. So what are the pros and cons behind breakaway? Really it comes down to money – the key factor in how self determining a body can be. An independent Caribbean with its statutory grant money coming directly from FIFA and supporting a central organisation would undoubtedly see more money than currently makes its way to competition organisation and grassroots structures. To make this work the Caribbean would in turn have to build its competition product and sell those rights in a fickle commercial marketplace – real football work. The argument against this, and it is a valid one, is the potential risk in not achieving this in a market that has so far been unable to secure a strong and independent commercial platform. Alternatively the Caribbean can sit and rely on disbursements from CONCACAF’s developing commercial programmes. This would be attractive if the money was actually handed to the places it were needed. It also requires a level of trust in the top body that money will be made available – and that is the risk factor in this course of action. The recent evidence of CONCACAF indicates it probably wouldn’t. When it comes to the CFU, CONCACAF prefers cuts rather financial encouragement. There are strong individual voices within the Caribbean diaspora – and this is where the noise comes back – that will argue powerfully against any form of breakaway. There is a fear that breaking away will lose everything they already have. This is not an unfounded fear, but if you have nothing to lose what are you losing? You still have a responsibility to develop your country’s football. This in turn could obviously lead to a conflict between personal and national interest. What might be a new opportunity for a small nation could spell the end of the line for a political bigwig. Many of the CFU officials pulled into FIFA and CONCACAF service have a higher political standing in world football than their countries. But that kind of conflict at decision-making time is quite a way down the line at this stage. The noise that comes with it probably isn’t. However, the first step is to look at the options and hold an intelligent debate based around facts – surely the mark of a democratic process. That is what the CFU agreed to explore last weekend. http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2017/01/25/editorial-islands-sun-arent-afraid-dark/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister215Guy Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 If the Caribbean splits the US should go with them considering they're more equal on skill level than they are to Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigi riva Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 The carribean should split there nations have been a thorne to sides of all the other nations in Concacaf Trust me this a negotatian ploy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/25/2017 at 1:06 PM, Keegan said: The problem is that OFC needs to be abolished or have more teams added from Asia. Australia should never have been allowed to leave that confederation. While I agree with you, saying you are in a different continent is silly, we actually have South American teams in our confederation. Yes, true, they are on the Caribbean as well, but so is another Conmebol team. But the real point to be made is that a federation is based on the principle that you can join freely, and also leave freely. And align yourself with who you wish, otherwise it is not a federated system. Australia left freely, and they were accepted even though you would think that made it harder for the Chinas and Irans and S Koreas to qualify for the WC each cycle. I wonder if the Aussie move was opposed by anyone in Asia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steedman Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Jamaica would become the new New Zealand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruffian Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, Steedman said: Jamaica would become the new New Zealand. I think T&T would dispute that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steedman Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 58 minutes ago, Ruffian said: I think T&T would dispute that. The new French Polynesia can dispute all they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercanuck Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I think it's a good idea. CFU and Oceania can do a mini merge. USA, MEX and central america can join CONMEBOL and Canada can join UEFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 A 10 team North and Central American confederation would be pretty much the same quality, maybe even stronger on aggregate than CONCACAF. All the Carribean minnows don't add much. We could have an amazing home and away, 18 game qualification like South America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 5 hours ago, Steedman said: The new French Polynesia can dispute all they want. TT vs Jamaica TT: 10 Caribbean titles, 1 World Cup appearance (GS), 8 Gold Cup appearances (semis in 2000), 2 CCL champs Jamaica: 6 Caribbean titles, 1 World Cup appearance (GS - won a game), 9 Gold Cup appearances (runner up in 2015) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 For sure it would be a 3 team confederation, along with Haiti. Those 3 teams will roll through the rest of the countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 14 minutes ago, baulderdash77 said: For sure it would be a 3 team confederation, along with Haiti. Those 3 teams will roll through the rest of the countries. You forgot Cuba and the non-FIFA powerhouse Martinique Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 2 hours ago, matty said: You forgot Cuba and the non-FIFA powerhouse Martinique Cuba isn't really good. They are good when matches are on non-FIFA dates, but when they are on FIFA dates, they are awful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 13 minutes ago, Blackdude said: Cuba isn't really good. They are good when matches are on non-FIFA dates, but when they are on FIFA dates, they are awful. True, I mainly mentioned them because they have had some moderate success in the Caribbean and Gold Cup, including a win in the Caribbean Cup, so I feel they're worthy of dark horse/upsetter status. Given they've had some terrible loses recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keegan Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 There are some teams on the rise in the Caribbean. Don't sleep on Curacao, they are limited on international experience but probably have the second best player pool after Jamaica. If we were to draw them I'd be worried. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curaçao_national_football_team#Current_squad Also there is some potential with other CFU teams, namely Guyana and Dominican Republic whose player pools have been steadily rising.. believe it or not there are TWO Dominicans currently at Real Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steedman Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 12 hours ago, matty said: TT vs Jamaica TT: 10 Caribbean titles, 1 World Cup appearance (GS), 8 Gold Cup appearances (semis in 2000), 2 CCL champs Jamaica: 6 Caribbean titles, 1 World Cup appearance (GS - won a game), 9 Gold Cup appearances (runner up in 2015) Satire denied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted January 31, 2017 Author Share Posted January 31, 2017 41 minutes ago, Steedman said: Satire denied. The original post wasn't satire but this post is somewhat ^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted January 31, 2017 Share Posted January 31, 2017 I know this isn't really the place for it, but I couldn't find anywhere better. I think it would be really cool if we could get into the Copa Centroamericana. They've got 7 teams right now, which is just ugly for a tournament, and adding Canada could bring it up to an even 8. It would give us more experience playing important games against challenging teams in the Central American environment, and would be a hell of a lot more useful than a one-off friendly against the likes of Bermuda. Plus it's not like North American teams will miss them at this time of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadianSoccerFan Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 On 1/31/2017 at 11:16 AM, Gopherbashi said: I know this isn't really the place for it, but I couldn't find anywhere better. I think it would be really cool if we could get into the Copa Centroamericana. They've got 7 teams right now, which is just ugly for a tournament, and adding Canada could bring it up to an even 8. It would give us more experience playing important games against challenging teams in the Central American environment, and would be a hell of a lot more useful than a one-off friendly against the likes of Bermuda. Plus it's not like North American teams will miss them at this time of the year. Gavin Day mentioned that Canada tried to get in it this year but was rebuffed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted February 1, 2017 Share Posted February 1, 2017 Damn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Ah yes, I have always dreamed of Canada being crowned the champions of Central America. I think everything would make more sense if we just had proper, confederation wide, qualifying for the Gold Cup. No need to cram us into a tournament that we don't belong in, and no longer getting a free pass to the confederation championship despite being ranked 14th or whatever we are within CONCACAF at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Kent said: Ah yes, I have always dreamed of Canada being crowned the champions of Central America. I think everything would make more sense if we just had proper, confederation wide, qualifying for the Gold Cup. No need to cram us into a tournament that we don't belong in, and no longer getting a free pass to the confederation championship despite being ranked 14th or whatever we are within CONCACAF at the moment. That's what our entry into the Copa Centroamerica would be - Gold Cup qualifying. It's either that or the Caribbean Cup, which wouldn't exactly be good for seeing quality competition. Sure, you could combine the two, add us, and either include Mexico & the US or give them a free pass, but that's not really much different from what we have now. Just add us to the Copa Centroamerica rather than gutting the whole system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: That's what our entry into the Copa Centroamerica would be - Gold Cup qualifying. It's either that or the Caribbean Cup, which wouldn't exactly be good for seeing quality competition. Sure, you could combine the two, add us, and either include Mexico & the US or give them a free pass, but that's not really much different from what we have now. Just add us to the Copa Centroamerica rather than gutting the whole system. What I meant by "proper, confederation wide" is one qualifying for all teams. They can be drawn into separate groups that never play each other, that's fine, but no more of this automatic qualification for some countries, 4 teams from the Caribbean, 4 from Central America. It's stupid. UEFA doesn't require a certain number of Scandinavian countries, or Balkans, or whatever. Just have all 35 countries fight for those 12 spots, and have the tournament every 4 years. If Central America still wants to have their own tournament, they can do that, but it shouldn't be Gold Cup qualifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grande Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 I would love that. With CONCACAF's 41 members: - Preliminary Round: Worst five teams by ranking; Best one qualifies - Thirty-six teams (Top 35 by ranking + Winner of preliminary round) drawn into six pools of six teams each (We could call it the hex-hex! Or maybe hex-squared?) - Top two teams from each pool qualify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty Posted February 2, 2017 Author Share Posted February 2, 2017 3 hours ago, grande said: I would love that. With CONCACAF's 41 members: - Preliminary Round: Worst five teams by ranking; Best one qualifies - Thirty-six teams (Top 35 by ranking + Winner of preliminary round) drawn into six pools of six teams each (We could call it the hex-hex! Or maybe hex-squared?) - Top two teams from each pool qualify It'd be nice to see but I thin they'll stick with regional qualifying. That said can they place MAKE NAFU A THING. NAFU: Canada, US, Mexico, Cuba, Belize, Bermuda, Bahamas (2 powerhouses, 3 dark horses, 2 minnows) NAFU Cup: 3+1 spots in Gold Cup (not counting a host nation) CAFU Cup: 4+1 spots in Gold Cup CFU Cup: 6+1 spots in Gold Cup 3 extra teams play a round robin tourney with the top 2 getting spots Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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