2016 Red Team Playoff Clinching Watch (aka Toronto FC 2016 MLS season thread)

[Dub Narcotic]

This year's team is very nice to watch, even today, after some bad travel, a very hot field and the defending champions, they easily could have won on a different day.

[BearcatSA]

2 hours ago, Free kick said:

The new additions are big, but they kept a core group of players in tact and they came back this year with the same coach.   Stability, thats what it all about. Until this year, they never had that.  

In Winter's second year they didn't have much turnover arguably less than this season, came into the season with a QF CCL victory over the Galaxy, and then proceeded to set a league record for a losing streak to start the regular season.  The difference lay with the acknowledgement by this coaching staff of the need for a good defensive foundation to grind out results as needed and the acquistion of some proven MLS performers to carry out the plan.

TFC were very unlucky today.

[Gian-Luca]

If Osorio isn't back by Saturday I'd like them to give Chapman a try at the top of the diamond rather than Endoh, based on what I saw against Portland (and by the looks of it, what Giovinco saw as well). Endoh has good on-the-ball skill but I'm not sure that he knows where to be on the field yet even when he plays on the wing or up front - he definitely looked like he didn't know what to do in that spot against Portland (it was the one disappointing performance on the day, IMO,  in a game which we still likely should have won on the balance of play and the chances created - the alleged "back-up" keeper for Portland may have won himself the starting job even when their starter comes back after that game). That's of course assuming that they play a midfield diamond formation in the game. I don't expect they will give Chapman a chance to start, but that's what I'd like to see given that Endoh had his chance in that spot and wasn't very effective (which is probably due to inexperience playing in that role, which Chapman does have even if it is at a lower level).

[Ruffian]

Projected starting line-up tonight

Only 2 Canadians. Hopefully we will see another off the bench. Chapman, Babouli or Morgan.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I am glad TFC got nothing from that, except maybe a good look at Chapman (pretty good) and Babouli (he's going to develop fine if they give him minutes). We also saw that Osorio is below the level of Teibert, who was good tonight, so put that to rest.

I'd post this on Caps thread but I am getting glitches making me post as TRM (weird): that was the most biased reffing job I have seen in a long time. After our second it was disgraceful. I hope you objective TFC fans, so quick to bitch about such things (Gianluca) are honest enough to recognize you were favoured blatantly, with about 10 soft fouls going your way breaking up all our defensive game, a few dangerous free kicks, the sending off (first yellow was a joke the ref did not even see), a soft penalty. A couple clear TFC fouls that were just let go, including a couple of controls off the hand. That ref did everything possible to help TFC, including a  shameful 6 minutes stoppage. 

On top of that, we watching on tv had to put up with TSN treating the Whitecaps like a foreign club, that was also a nightmare job. The whole game was called from an endogamic navel gazing TFC perspective.

So sorry, I know this is totally trolling on your authentic official Canadian soccer thread. When I can post on the one for "our country" I'll edit everything but the first paragraph.

[TRM]

If I get glitches making me post as Unamed Trialist we could cause all sorts of mayhem for each other. I'm all brewed up after that game. Damn does TFC rely on Gio for offence. Holy cow. I really hope he doesn't get called up because I don't see anyone in the league, much less TFC, who can fill those cleats.

The announcers are allowed to be homers. It just makes us winning that much sweeter. Fuckemall 

[Ruffian]

I hope Floro was not watching that game or Osorio will not be playing for CanMNT ever again. Not that he will be able to any time soon with his injury. Did not hear the announcers as I was at the game so can not comment. As to the ref bias I did not see any blatant bias. I know there can be bias coming from certain posters so I will take it with a grain of salt.

[jonovision]

23 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am glad TFC got nothing from that, except maybe a good look at Chapman (pretty good) and Babouli (he's going to develop fine if they give him minutes). We also saw that Osorio is below the level of Teibert, who was good tonight, so put that to rest.

I'd post this on Caps thread but I am getting glitches making me post as TRM (weird): that was the most biased reffing job I have seen in a long time. After our second it was disgraceful. I hope you objective TFC fans, so quick to bitch about such things (Gianluca) are honest enough to recognize you were favoured blatantly, with about 10 soft fouls going your way breaking up all our defensive game, a few dangerous free kicks, the sending off (first yellow was a joke the ref did not even see), a soft penalty. A couple clear TFC fouls that were just let go, including a couple of controls off the hand. That ref did everything possible to help TFC, including a  shameful 6 minutes stoppage. 

On top of that, we watching on tv had to put up with TSN treating the Whitecaps like a foreign club, that was also a nightmare job. The whole game was called from an endogamic navel gazing TFC perspective.

So sorry, I know this is totally trolling on your authentic official Canadian soccer thread. When I can post on the one for "our country" I'll edit everything but the first paragraph.

I like to think of myself as a neutral (I live in the middle of the country and don't particularly care for any of the MLS teams) and I find myself nodding in agreement with much of this. Though the ref didn't stand out for any particular call, every close decision seemed to go TFC's way. The penalty was soft, but we've seen softer given. Aird's first yellow should not have been (and what is Giovinco doing running towards the goal with the ball 3 seconds after the whistle) but the second foul might have been a straight red so that evens out. 

The homer broadcast is regrettable but not unexpected when the announcer is a former TFC employee.

I thought Teibert was excellent, including a few sequences where close man-marking clearly frustrated Giovinco.

[jonovision]

As to Giovinco, surely he must want to give it another shot in a big European league, no? The money he is being paid, obviously, is great, but what kind of professional satisfaction is there from tearing up a league that is clearly below your level?

[Ivan]

Does Kekuta Manneh only ever show up to play vs. TFC?  Any way, too bad the defence decided this was the game to give away.  Should have been 8-4 TFC, favourable reffing or not.  : )

Damn, could have been in first place!  First time ever.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

I am glad TFC got nothing from that, except maybe a good look at Chapman (pretty good) and Babouli (he's going to develop fine if they give him minutes). We also saw that Osorio is below the level of Teibert, who was good tonight, so put that to rest.

I'd post this on Caps thread but I am getting glitches making me post as TRM (weird): that was the most biased reffing job I have seen in a long time. After our second it was disgraceful. I hope you objective TFC fans, so quick to bitch about such things (Gianluca) are honest enough to recognize you were favoured blatantly, with about 10 soft fouls going your way breaking up all our defensive game, a few dangerous free kicks, the sending off (first yellow was a joke the ref did not even see), a soft penalty. A couple clear TFC fouls that were just let go, including a couple of controls off the hand. That ref did everything possible to help TFC, including a  shameful 6 minutes stoppage. 

On top of that, we watching on tv had to put up with TSN treating the Whitecaps like a foreign club, that was also a nightmare job. The whole game was called from an endogamic navel gazing TFC perspective.

So sorry, I know this is totally trolling on your authentic official Canadian soccer thread. When I can post on the one for "our country" I'll edit everything but the first paragraph.

Funnily enough, when TFC marched into Montreal a couple of weeks ago and beat them 2-0, I didn't go into the Impact thread on this forum with "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!" post, but apparently I get called out anyway.....

If and when I have the time to re-watch the game I'll let you know. I'm not an objective TFC fan by the way, but then I don't believe anyone who is a soccer fan can actually be truly objective, we all have our own biases.

As for Osorio vs. Teibert, it seems the players in question don't share the same sense of rivalry that the fanboys do - when Osorio was lying injured on the ground, Teibert came over to see if he was okay. Not sure if that was shown on TV but thought it might interest people here. Based on tonight's game, you could also argue that Johnson and Bradley (who was Captain Complacent on the first goal - he was the slowest to react when it was obvious that Perquis had passed it too far and Manneh was going to have a break) were below the level of Teibert, but it is of course silly to make such definitive statements on the basis of one game that was clearly an off-game for TFC, particularly the first 20 minutes (although it was probably an off-night for the back-four for the entire game). Ironically Osorio's best moment in the game came when he stripped Teibert of the ball and fed a perfectly-timed through ball to Giovinco for what most times would have been a goal. Until I start seeing that kind of through ball from many of our Canadian midfielders at the club level on a regular basis, the argument is going to be there for Osorio's inclusion on the national team. I'm glad that Teibert had a good game though. And with TFC players dropping like flies, this might mean more playing time might be given to Chapman and Babouli (and possibly even Hamilton - Babouli, Endoh & Giovinco is about the shortest strike force I think any club has ever had). A shame that the combination between the two at the end didn't result in the tying goal as that was quite the talented play by both of them.

I'm not sure if the tv replays showed Johnson after the first Vancouver goal but he went screaming at his defense, I could see his face turn red from here. Which showed that he's certainly got the fire under his belly - and one might say is good leadership but on the other hand does that mean the  players were entitled to scream at him when he gave the ball away for the eventual game winner?

Overall, it was nice to see a lot of Canadians on the pitch in an MLS game including so many under the age of 25. I just hope one of them didn't break the ankle of one of the others.

[paul-collins]

The camera work must've missed a lot, because there was a ton of behind the play action, and it seemed to be mostly at Vancouver's initiative.  They were also time wasting from immediately after the first goal.  The ref was getting very agitated about it, so Vancouver earned his enmity.

That said, Toronto's defence was atrocious.  They were wholly unprepared for the high press Vancouver used.

[Dub Narcotic]

Endoh, Babouli and Chapman are going to have their chances this year, for Toronto's sake those three better be able to contribute.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

As for Osorio vs. Teibert, it seems the players in question don't share the same sense of rivalry that the fanboys do - when Osorio was lying injured on the ground, Teibert came over to see if he was okay. Not sure if that was shown on TV but thought it might interest people here. Based on tonight's game, you could also argue that Johnson and Bradley (who was Captain Complacent on the first goal - he was the slowest to react when it was obvious that Perquis had passed it too far and Manneh was going to have a break) were below the level of Teibert, but it is of course silly to make such definitive statements on the basis of one game that was clearly an off-game for TFC, particularly the first 20 minutes (although it was probably an off-night for the back-four for the entire game). Ironically Osorio's best moment in the game came when he stripped Teibert of the ball and fed a perfectly-timed through ball to Giovinco for what most times would have been a goal. Until I start seeing that kind of through ball from many of our Canadian midfielders at the club level on a regular basis, the argument is going to be there for Osorio's inclusion on the national team. I'm glad that Teibert had a good game though. And with TFC players dropping like flies, this might mean more playing time might be given to Chapman and Babouli (and possibly even Hamilton - Babouli, Endoh & Giovinco is about the shortest strike force I think any club has ever had). A shame that the combination between the two at the end didn't result in the tying goal as that was quite the talented play by both of them.

 

Just wanted to say my opinion on Teibert-Osorio was pretty well made up well before the injury, and no, I do not wish bad on anyone. I am glad too they are brotherly, that is fine. As I was watching at 4 in the morning I crashed and had no idea he'd broken his foot.

I have also posted consistently that Osorio should be in the CMNT mix. So yes, that post was fan-boy, whupee!

I also agree that it was a particularly good game for Russ, especially during the Caps better phases. And it is also true that having to chase the game from behind made it harder for TFC players to shine. 

Just answering someone else re Manneh: he does not just play well vs. TFC. In fact , he has matured a lot and has way better decision making this year overall, in spite of being very sloppy 2nd half before being subbed.

[Gian-Luca]

I'm not sure where people are getting the broken foot idea for Osorio from - all the reports I've seen (including Vanney's post-match presser) indicate that he re-injured his ankle (or rather, it was injured for him) that he was just coming back from. There wasn't any word on anything being broken or how long he'll be out for as yet (though the way we went off the field, I'd be surprised if he played on Wednesday - same with Altidore)

[BearcatSA]

11 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I'm not sure if the tv replays showed Johnson after the first Vancouver goal but he went screaming at his defense, I could see his face turn red from here. Which showed that he's certainly got the fire under his belly - and one might say is good leadership but on the other hand does that mean the  players were entitled to scream at him when he gave the ball away for the eventual game winner?

Johnson was very poor last night.  For that matter, all three of Bradley's midfield partners were ineffective mainly because the Caps' tactics and their mids' work ethic was outstanding:  any time passes were played to those TFC players they were completely closed down.  So when you force Giovinco to come back so deep to get service you are doing a quality defensive job in midfield!  

That's the best I've seen Morales play in a road game (perhaps in any game) in a long time.  Committed, clever and, most importantly, confident:  at times he looked like he was toying with his opponents while in possession. 

[The Beaver]

Super entertaining game, and one if the best tactical games I've seen the Caps play under Robbo. Morales came into the league wanting to be one of the best players, and so playing against the team with arguably the best player in the league was extra incentive for Pedro to show his quality. He is finding his form! Yes, Bolanos needs to smarten up about those casual (and errant) passes. Cost us one goal and nearly cost us a second.

I think we showed our depth last night, that we are rounding into form. 9 points in a week ain't too shabby, especially when two of those games were excellent performances.

Last night our Canadians out performed theirs!  Osorio and Johnson were nearly invisible. 

 

PS. Sorry: Thought this was the Caps thread. Meant to post it there!

[TRM]

21 hours ago, Ivan said:

Does Kekuta Manneh only ever show up to play vs. TFC?  Any way, too bad the defence decided this was the game to give away.  Should have been 8-4 TFC, favourable reffing or not.  : )

Damn, could have been in first place!  First time ever.

He's been known to destroy Seattle and various other teams as well. When he's on his game it is something special. His dribbling at full sprint in fun to watch if you're a Caps fan. He has raised his game a lot in the situational awareness aspect. No longer a one dimensional player. I can see now why Mattocks was traded. Both Manneh and Hurtado seem to have learned to play smart as well as fast.

[shermanator]

So Altidore is going to miss the next 6-8 weeks after he cocked up his hammy while missing a penalty. This is Babouli's big opportunity to show he can get goals at the MLS level.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/jozy-altidore-toronto-fc-tfc-mls-major-league-soccer-hamstring-injury/

[Ruffian]

I didn't know you could miss 6-8 weeks with an injured ego.

Babouli was not as impressive this past game but I hope with more game planning around him being in the starting lineup we can see him used in a better way.

[Gian-Luca]

The news is a bit better on the Osorio front - he is "questionable" for Wednesday (according to Kurt Larson on twitter) but it doesn't sound like anything is broken or severed or anything as long term as Altidore.

I wonder if they might recall Hamilton from the U23 camp for Wednesday, because if Babouli starts in place of Altidore on Wednesday (or even the rest of next 6 weeks), with Osorio, Cheyrou & Delgado out (and Mannella too I think if he wasn't healthy enough to join the U23's in Guyana) they are bound to play Endoh in midfield. Which means they would have no strikers coming off the bench (striker typically being the position which is most frequently subbed).

Perhaps they will revert to Giovinco alone up front with a 5 man midfield, push Endoh to the right, Lovitz/Morgan on the left, Johnson & Bradley in the middle. That would leave Chapman to replace Osorio as a starter and Babouli for legs off the bench. Although I am not sure who else they can even dress for midfield - the glut of extra central defenders on the roster (Zavaleta, Williams, Hagglund, Simonin) taking up roster spots instead of another striker or midfielder might start to bite them in the rear end.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Ruffian said:

I didn't know you could miss 6-8 weeks with an injured ego.

Babouli was not as impressive this past game but I hope with more game planning around him being in the starting lineup we can see him used in a better way.

With Altidore anything is possible on the injury front. Unfortunately my "miss 50% of the season" prediction (or whatever large number I threw out) looks to be coming true.

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

15 hours ago, Ruffian said:

I didn't know you could miss 6-8 weeks with an injured ego.

Babouli was not as impressive this past game but I hope with more game planning around him being in the starting lineup we can see him used in a better way.

Was he called into the Copa America camp, he would have missed a 3 weeks-month anyways with that anyways. Or not?

TFC was going to have a striker problem with Altidore with the US, and if Gio gets called to the Euros. Meaning you probably need to sign someone, if possible, for 2 months as is.

There is a former Pittsburgh Riverhounds striker from Jamaica who is unattached right now....

[Gian-Luca]

3 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Was he called into the Copa America camp, he would have missed a 3 weeks-month anyways with that anyways. Or not?

 

He was going to be called - I'd read somewhere that the plan was for Bradley & Altidore to depart after the Columbus game. Now it will just be Bradley.

Vanney said that he expects & is preparing for Giovinco to be called, so I do wonder what the plan is (and have been since they got rid of Herculez Gomez). I have to figure that the plan is not to rely purely on Endoh, Babouli & Hamilton (not exactly an MLS-proven strikeforce just yet).

[Ruffian]

With no Altidore, Bradley or Giovinco there will be a lot of Canadians playing. If it is a team with 3 or 4 Canadian starters and they are able to average 1 point a game I would consider that acceptable and it would put Toronto in a position to make a playoff push with everybody back.