2016 Red Team Playoff Clinching Watch (aka Toronto FC 2016 MLS season thread)

[rob.notenboom]

10 hours ago, Trillium said:

Mserson, surely you mean playing hommage, rather then poking fun!!! 

*than*

[jpg75]

2 hours ago, rob.notenboom said:

*than*

Nah, "playing" hommage...then poking fun. 2 things happened there.

[Gian-Luca]

2 Canadian teams undefeated and at the top of the standings in the east division after two games.....don't think that's ever happened before. It's certainly not happening in any division in the NHL right now.

[Trillium]

On 3/14/2016 at 8:43 PM, jpg75 said:

Nah, "playing" hommage...then poking fun. 2 things happened there.

Is the rule not use "than" when making a comparison, otherwise use "then".

Can we not get a grammarian designated as final judge on these matters ?

[shermanator]

ESPN did a player poll in preseason, and Jozy Altidore was ranked the 2nd most overrated player in MLS by other players. Michael Bradley was ranked the 6th most overrated player in MLS by other players.

Couldn't agree more. Both are good MLS calibre players, but they are just beyond overhyped. I have a hard time believing that TFC will achieve anything with Bradley leading the ship.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2829426/mix-diskerud-most-overrated-mls-player-in-player-poll

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, shermanator said:

ESPN did a player poll in preseason, and Jozy Altidore was ranked the 2nd most overrated player in MLS by other players. Michael Bradley was ranked the 6th most overrated player in MLS by other players.

Couldn't agree more. Both are good MLS calibre players, but they are just beyond overhyped. I have a hard time believing that TFC will achieve anything with Bradley leading the ship.

http://www.espnfc.com/major-league-soccer/story/2829426/mix-diskerud-most-overrated-mls-player-in-player-poll

I also see that Laba was on the most underrated list.

[Gian-Luca]

I watched the most recent controversially-reffed TFC game (1-0 ten-man loss to Colorado) on tape-delay as I was out Saturday night. Tough to take too much from it given that the team was down a man for 8/9th's of the game. I thought Bradley had an off-game in terms of decision making with his passes, and the team in general doesn't seem to use Altidore properly as a target striker - particularly when he comes on as a sub & they have to change their style of play. I'm not sure if Endoh & Delgado were hurt, but I was surprised to see Lovitz (a) starting and (b) starting on the right side of the field. I was also surprised to see Babouli start but in this case it was a pleasant surprise. He had one or two nice moments, and no doubt would have had more if the early-sending off hadn't changed the whole game. I hope that he's looked likely enough that he will be a first choice over Lovitz for coming off the bench when Altidore begins to start (since we all know that will happen sooner or later - probably by the next match). Frankly I think Lovitz best chance to stay in the league may be as a left back - a decent crossing ability (if an inconsistent one) is all that I think he has going for him and I'm not sure what the TFC brass sees in him otherwise (whatever it is, it is something that I don't see).

As for the officiating, of the four controversial plays that all went Colorado's way, I'm inclined to agree with the linesman that the Colorado goal wasn't offside - we never got a good look right across the line, but it seemed close enough to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in this case. However, there was a definite hand-ball blocking a shot in the PK area in the 2nd half that TFC should have been given a penalty for, particularly as the defender turns his body around to effectively hit the ball with his own arm, a play I've seen given a ton of times as a PK. I also don't think Cheyrou should have been given a second yellow given that the Colorado player didn't have a hope in hell of winning the header, arrived late and effectively ran into Cheyrou's elbow as he was naturally jumping for the ball - it's not like he swung an elbow at a player that he had been jostling for position on a header with, which is when you normally see a yellow given. If anything, you could argue that the Cheyrou stomp for the first yellow was closer to deserving a straight-sending off than the second yellow was a yellow. By the same token though, you could argue that off the ball punch to Johnson's stomach that Burch delivered could also have been a straight-red. Worst of all though is how that Bobby Burling thug managed to stay on the field at all. Vanney argued that he should have received a second yellow for grabbing Giovinco from behind in the 90th minute after he turned him. I'm inclined to disagree - I think it should have been his third yellow. The first should have come when Burling did a late slide tackle early in the second half which took down Babouli, who otherwise had easily beaten him and would have set up a promising break on goal of either a 3 on 3 or a 3 on 2.

 

[BearcatSA]

1 hour ago, Gian-Luca said:

Frankly I think Lovitz best chance to stay in the league may be as a left back - a decent crossing ability (if an inconsistent one) is all that I think he has going for him and I'm not sure what the TFC brass sees in him otherwise (whatever it is, it is something that I don't see).

Interesting that of the draft picks from 2014 and 2015, he's the only one seeing any first team action this season.

[Grizzly]

4 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I watched the most recent controversially-reffed TFC game (1-0 ten-man loss to Colorado) on tape-delay as I was out Saturday night. Tough to take too much from it given that the team was down a man for 8/9th's of the game. I thought Bradley had an off-game in terms of decision making with his passes, and the team in general doesn't seem to use Altidore properly as a target striker - particularly when he comes on as a sub & they have to change their style of play. I'm not sure if Endoh & Delgado were hurt, but I was surprised to see Lovitz (a) starting and (b) starting on the right side of the field. I was also surprised to see Babouli start but in this case it was a pleasant surprise. He had one or two nice moments, and no doubt would have had more if the early-sending off hadn't changed the whole game. I hope that he's looked likely enough that he will be a first choice over Lovitz for coming off the bench when Altidore begins to start (since we all know that will happen sooner or later - probably by the next match). Frankly I think Lovitz best chance to stay in the league may be as a left back - a decent crossing ability (if an inconsistent one) is all that I think he has going for him and I'm not sure what the TFC brass sees in him otherwise (whatever it is, it is something that I don't see).

As for the officiating, of the four controversial plays that all went Colorado's way, I'm inclined to agree with the linesman that the Colorado goal wasn't offside - we never got a good look right across the line, but it seemed close enough to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in this case. However, there was a definite hand-ball blocking a shot in the PK area in the 2nd half that TFC should have been given a penalty for, particularly as the defender turns his body around to effectively hit the ball with his own arm, a play I've seen given a ton of times as a PK. I also don't think Cheyrou should have been given a second yellow given that the Colorado player didn't have a hope in hell of winning the header, arrived late and effectively ran into Cheyrou's elbow as he was naturally jumping for the ball - it's not like he swung an elbow at a player that he had been jostling for position on a header with, which is when you normally see a yellow given. If anything, you could argue that the Cheyrou stomp for the first yellow was closer to deserving a straight-sending off than the second yellow was a yellow. By the same token though, you could argue that off the ball punch to Johnson's stomach that Burch delivered could also have been a straight-red. Worst of all though is how that Bobby Burling thug managed to stay on the field at all. Vanney argued that he should have received a second yellow for grabbing Giovinco from behind in the 90th minute after he turned him. I'm inclined to disagree - I think it should have been his third yellow. The first should have come when Burling did a late slide tackle early in the second half which took down Babouli, who otherwise had easily beaten him and would have set up a promising break on goal of either a 3 on 3 or a 3 on 2.

 

LOL. I see we will get to enjoy yet another season of Gianluca's How MLS Refs Screw TFC! I am happy you are a lawyer and not a judge! By the way, Rocco was onside! 

[Free kick]

8 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

I watched the most recent controversially-reffed TFC game (1-0 ten-man loss to Colorado) on tape-delay as I was out Saturday night. Tough to take too much from it given that the team was down a man for 8/9th's of the game. I thought Bradley had an off-game in terms of decision making with his passes, and the team in general doesn't seem to use Altidore properly as a target striker - particularly when he comes on as a sub & they have to change their style of play. I'm not sure if Endoh & Delgado were hurt, but I was surprised to see Lovitz (a) starting and (b) starting on the right side of the field. I was also surprised to see Babouli start but in this case it was a pleasant surprise. He had one or two nice moments, and no doubt would have had more if the early-sending off hadn't changed the whole game. I hope that he's looked likely enough that he will be a first choice over Lovitz for coming off the bench when Altidore begins to start (since we all know that will happen sooner or later - probably by the next match). Frankly I think Lovitz best chance to stay in the league may be as a left back - a decent crossing ability (if an inconsistent one) is all that I think he has going for him and I'm not sure what the TFC brass sees in him otherwise (whatever it is, it is something that I don't see).

As for the officiating, of the four controversial plays that all went Colorado's way, I'm inclined to agree with the linesman that the Colorado goal wasn't offside - we never got a good look right across the line, but it seemed close enough to give the benefit of the doubt to the attacker in this case. However, there was a definite hand-ball blocking a shot in the PK area in the 2nd half that TFC should have been given a penalty for, particularly as the defender turns his body around to effectively hit the ball with his own arm, a play I've seen given a ton of times as a PK. I also don't think Cheyrou should have been given a second yellow given that the Colorado player didn't have a hope in hell of winning the header, arrived late and effectively ran into Cheyrou's elbow as he was naturally jumping for the ball - it's not like he swung an elbow at a player that he had been jostling for position on a header with, which is when you normally see a yellow given. If anything, you could argue that the Cheyrou stomp for the first yellow was closer to deserving a straight-sending off than the second yellow was a yellow. By the same token though, you could argue that off the ball punch to Johnson's stomach that Burch delivered could also have been a straight-red. Worst of all though is how that Bobby Burling thug managed to stay on the field at all. Vanney argued that he should have received a second yellow for grabbing Giovinco from behind in the 90th minute after he turned him. I'm inclined to disagree - I think it should have been his third yellow. The first should have come when Burling did a late slide tackle early in the second half which took down Babouli, who otherwise had easily beaten him and would have set up a promising break on goal of either a 3 on 3 or a 3 on 2.

 

The officiating in the game reminded me of that commercial for which i cant recall the product or company.   Its the one where there is football referree that announces something like: "we really botched that call... But we will even things out in the forth quarter.... First down".   

Thats what i saw.  An undeserved and harsh sending off.  And, from what i saw, the attacker was not even with the backline and in offside position on the goal.

But then. All of a sudden,  as the game wore on he was giving a few of questionable penalties in favour of TFC in the attacking third during the second half.  

Overall, i think i hate this kind of stuff more than the odd missed call.  Missed calls are human after all but when you sense that the ref is either trying to manage the result of influence it through bias for one side or another (like you see in concacaf play), thats another story.

[Gian-Luca]

15 hours ago, Free kick said:

The officiating in the game reminded me of that commercial for which i cant recall the product or company.   Its the one where there is football referree that announces something like: "we really botched that call... But we will even things out in the forth quarter.... First down".   

Thats what i saw.  An undeserved and harsh sending off.  And, from what i saw, the attacker was not even with the backline and in offside position on the goal.

But then. All of a sudden,  as the game wore on he was giving a few of questionable penalties in favour of TFC in the attacking third during the second half.  

Overall, i think i hate this kind of stuff more than the odd missed call.  Missed calls are human after all but when you sense that the ref is either trying to manage the result of influence it through bias for one side or another (like you see in concacaf play), thats another story.

I don't know.....I was given that "make up call" impression moreso for the previous game against KC where the obvious foul wasn't called directly leading to the KC goal, and then the first chance Baldo-moron Toledo got he sent off (very harshly IMO) a KC player with a straight red to give TFC a better chance to equalize. Whereas the Ref in the Colorado match had plenty of opportunities to send off Colorado players but chose not to take them (I think the call on the goal was close enough that I don't think the officials would necessarily think that they blew the call, unlike the Davis foul on Morrow which was incredibly obvious, so much so that even the Referees association for the MLS admitted after the game that it was a foul which should have been called).

[Ruffian]

Jonathan Osorio could tie Stefan Frei for second behind Ashton Morgan in the all time appearances for Toronto FC but still will have no CCL appearances. That shows how long TFC have been missing out on CCL.

[jpg75]

I missed most of the match, but TFC won 0-1 in DC to go 2-2-2. Giovinco scored in the 1' (58 seconds in, a new TFC record).

[Ivan]

^ You didn't miss much, but, hey, 3 pts is 3 pts.  Drew Moor is really good.  I also thought Osorio had a good game.

[BearcatSA]

Johnson was excellent but the whole team was strong defensively.  

[Dub Narcotic]

Very good tactical and team performance tonight, although I hope when they play at home they can actually generate chances and keep possession more than they are showing right now. Moor, Johnson and Irwin (great signing) were absolute rocks today and TFC played the smart analytic game of allowing a lot of low-percentage crossing from the deep wings.

[Gian-Luca]

17 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

Johnson was excellent but the whole team was strong defensively.  

It hasn't been commented on yet at all in the media or even in this forum (where the comparisons have all been about Johnson vs. Osorio for some reason), but he's had a stronger start to the season for TFC than Bradley has. Not that Bradley has been awful, but I don't know that he's even been in the build up to any TFC goal yet this year (never mind not having any official assists) and on the other side of the ledger he's given the ball away quite or not marked his man properly. On some occasions Irwin was able to bail him out but on other occasions (first goal by NYFC for example) it led to a goal against.

[Ivan]

I agree Gian-Luca.  Johnson has been a real key.  He has that motor and bite that you need from your midfield destroyer.  I like the lineup they are currently using.  In my mind, only Delgado is a weak link, especially on the defensive side..

[Dub Narcotic]

2 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

It hasn't been commented on yet at all in the media or even in this forum (where the comparisons have all been about Johnson vs. Osorio for some reason), but he's had a stronger start to the season for TFC than Bradley has. Not that Bradley has been awful, but I don't know that he's even been in the build up to any TFC goal yet this year (never mind not having any official assists) and on the other side of the ledger he's given the ball away quite or not marked his man properly. On some occasions Irwin was able to bail him out but on other occasions (first goal by NYFC for example) it led to a goal against.

This is being discussed right now on the RPB forum: Bradley actually has more tackles and interceptions than Johnson this year. I think they are both playing very well. Bradley is being very disciplined in his positioning, unlike last year, but I'm sure he will be asked to get forward more on the road.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said:

This is being discussed right now on the RPB forum: Bradley actually has more tackles and interceptions than Johnson this year. I think they are both playing very well. Bradley is being very disciplined in his positioning, unlike last year, but I'm sure he will be asked to get forward more on the road.

I agree with this assessment.  I think Johnson is allowed to free range more but he is also very cognizant of being cover when Bradley is caught out and there was that one play where Bradley got caught in possession up in the DC end by Espindola but Johnson's awareness on the recovery run snuffed out that counterattack.  The style of play in MLS suits his strengths and his weaknesses are not as prevalent as they would be at a different level.

[BearcatSA]

4 hours ago, Ivan said:

I agree Gian-Luca.  Johnson has been a real key.  He has that motor and bite that you need from your midfield destroyer.  I like the lineup they are currently using.  In my mind, only Delgado is a weak link, especially on the defensive side..

I thought Delgado played way better in this match than the week before.  He's still just shy of his 21st birthday, so experience should hone the shortcomings in his game.  

[Gian-Luca]

We were talking up thread about Baldomero Toledo's tendency to do make-up calls - having just watched the Orlando-Revs highlights, it appears I didn't know when we were well off. If you haven't seen it yet, some of the worst officiating I've ever seen and has "make-up call" written in flashing neon green all-caps lettering all over it.

[BearcatSA]

25 minutes ago, Gian-Luca said:

We were talking up thread about Baldomero Toledo's tendency to do make-up calls - having just watched the Orlando-Revs highlights, it appears I didn't know when we were well off. If you haven't seen it yet, some of the worst officiating I've ever seen and has "make-up call" written in flashing neon green all-caps lettering all over it.

How is this guy still reffing at this level?  Way, way, way too much drama when he's on the whistle.

[Ruffian]

Giovinco (27 goals) is close to topping Canadian De Rosario (33 goals) for all time leading scorer for Toronto FC. Also Canadian Osorio (96 appearances) is close to getting second place in appearances behind Ashton Morgan (118 appearances) and topping Swiss Stephan Frei's (99 appearances) totals. Also Canadian Osorio (9 goals) and Bradley (7 goals) are close to breaking into the top ten in top goalscorers for Toronto FC, needing to catch Amado Guevara (11 goals) and Jermaine Defoe (12 goals). It is great to see so many Canadians on these record lists when it seems that Toronto FC has been lacking a lot of Canadian content through their 10 year history.

[Unnamed Trialist]

My comments on the Impact-TFC.

-amazing to watch live and for "free" on Eurosport in my living room in BCN and get to hear De Vos. I think he is great, it is not just a jingoistic thing, he's way better than their US commentators. What a pleasure. 

-TFC huge step up with the defensive changes. One club that did the right thing over the off-season and has every right to aspire for more. Congrats, it is very hard to do what TFC have done the last two, and so comfortably, without being on their back foot, both fully deserved.

-I am not trying to push Floro or react to those who say it's his fault, but Osorio is MNT quality. This is objective. I think we need to factor any discussion of that issue right out of the question from now on.

-Impact shirt is very nice, I mean a really nice shirt, today I thought of the Bruges shirt as I saw them earlier for a spell. Drogba is also an amazing player, I am still waiting for those Impact fans who were here trashing him in the off-season to come on here and apologize for doing that. A bad result does not change the fact that he is a great player.

-Hoping to see Bekker, we got Donadel. A player who is irritating for the same reason Kyle was at times in the past: no range. Donadel has moments where he simply does not think he should be offering himself and moving off the ball (this idea is almost non-existent for him). But because he paces himself and does the free kicks, it looks like he does not do anything wrong. A no risk and no consequences player.  For me, that spot is right now the Impact's weak spot.

-Above posted stats would say Giovinco is still a few goals away from De Rosario, even with the two today. De Vos on air said he'd tied him, or just passed him, in 40 matches. Who's right?