2016 Red Team Playoff Clinching Watch (aka Toronto FC 2016 MLS season thread)

[Keegan]

I wouldn't say they never would.. it would just take something really special.  Before this squad announcement Italy called Okaka (Anderlecht) to their last camp.  

[1996]

Well it's ironic that Conte more or less did not pick Giovinco because he is playing in such a " low level"  league as the MLS, however, let me recall that Italy had a tough time in 2006 when they won it all , they played a group game versus the US which had a few MLS players in their lineup, I think they were lucky to get a tie in that game versus that US side back in 2006, moreover, Italy lost to Costa Rica in the last World Cup in a group game, Costa Rica eventually got out of the group while Italy went home, Costa Rica also had a few players starting in that game versus Italy who played in that vastly inferior league they call the MLS, wow how about that Mr. Conte, lol!

[BearcatSA]

On May 22, 2016 at 8:12 PM, Ivan said:

Is it just me or has Justin Morrow been horrible the last 2 games?

After this Red Bulls game, he definitely needs to sit.  Probably will in the first leg vs Montreal.

[Ivan]

7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

After this Red Bulls game, he definitely needs to sit.  Probably will in the first leg vs Montreal.

After that game, a lot more than Morrow need to sit.  I know I gave deserved kudos to Moor previously, but he was God-awful in this one.  BWP is a good MLS striker, but 3 goals in 27 minutes?  Come on.  Osorio was a little better in the second half, but did he even touch the ball in the first half?  That was as embarrassing a performance as I have seen in the last 2 years.  I don't want to go back further than that because there were a lot of those.  

[Gian-Luca]

Moor was directly or partially to blame on all three goals although Morrow assisted on the first and last. But I also question Vanney's tactics on this one. I am not sure what formation that was to start the game, or what Delgado and Lovitz roles were supposed to be. It looked like a 4-2-2-1-1 or something. And if you are down 3 goals with a man up at the half, why on Earth would you come out in the second half with 5 defenders and just one striker (and a rookie at that who has to take all of the corners and free kicks so there are no strikers in the box)? By the time Hamilton came on, they had wasted a good 10 minutes of the 2nd half and then NY put on an extra defender so our strikers were still outnumbered despite being a man up. That is not the way to create offense.

[shermanator]

The Morgan for Giovinco sub was perplexing. That being said I thought Morgan was actually pretty decent going forward. Lovitz on the other hand, yikes! Just a giveaway machine.

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

The Morgan for Giovinco sub was perplexing. That being said I thought Morgan was actually pretty decent going forward. Lovitz on the other hand, yikes! Just a giveaway machine.

Well Morgan at least reminded TFC fans what it is like to have a left back who occasionally can whip a cross into the box.

Re-watching the highlights (which was pretty painful), I had originally assumed that the Ref called Lovitz on the infringement since he was on his own and went deeper into the box. But it looks like he actually points to Babouli even though he barely encroached and a NY player went in at the same time. Technically a correct call by the letter of the law but you rarely see it called when it is that marginal and no player has an advantage over the other. Which means for me that even though it's technically correct, the Ref is a bit of a dickhead. Although not as much as Felipe was on the play - after Johnson missed the re-take he went screaming in Johnson's face taunting him for having missed the PK. This is the same jackass that screamed at Irwin for making a save in the opening day match. Not impressed with his antics or McCarty's when their team is up 3-0, no class whatsoever.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, Ivan said:

Osorio was a little better in the second half, but did he even touch the ball in the first half?  

I thought his performance was disappointing, perhaps in some ways reminiscent of the Costa Rica game.  I think he needs to really be a factor in these upcoming Amway Cup matches to prove that he's a driver and not simply a passenger.  

[RJB]

On 2016-05-28 at 9:46 AM, 1996 said:

Well it's ironic that Conte more or less did not pick Giovinco because he is playing in such a " low level"  league as the MLS, however, let me recall that Italy had a tough time in 2006 when they won it all , they played a group game versus the US which had a few MLS players in their lineup, I think they were lucky to get a tie in that game versus that US side back in 2006, moreover, Italy lost to Costa Rica in the last World Cup in a group game, Costa Rica eventually got out of the group while Italy went home, Costa Rica also had a few players starting in that game versus Italy who played in that vastly inferior league they call the MLS, wow how about that Mr. Conte, lol!

It's slightly sour-grapes to think that a country like Italy doesn't have better options out there than Giovinco.  He is fabulous, don't get me wrong.  He is good enough, but MLS is a low league.  They have options in all the best leagues in the world, and I'm sorry that MLS justn't isn't up there. 

Keep in mind that they have the 4th best league in Europe (by coefficient) and some of the biggest clubs.  I have absolutely no problem with this assessment by Conte when you have arguable equals playing regularly against better competition in Serie A. 

[El Hombre]

19 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Re-watching the highlights....

That is a new kind of masochism, dear sir.

[BearcatSA]

3 hours ago, El Hombre said:

That is a new kind of masochism, dear sir.

It is, but when you re-watch plays you get to see more subtle but significantly important issues such as poor off the ball running and passing decisions to go along with the obvious technical malfunctions (giveaways from passing inaccuracy or lack of ball protection/shielding, both in abundance on Saturday).  That was a tough first half to watch considering that I expect this year's version of the team to be better in the marking department. 

[1996]

My point re: Giovinco is that Conte kind of craps on the MLS when commenting on the Giovinco exclusion but seems to forget a Costa Rica team with a few MLS players doing a lot better than Italy at the last World Cup. Look of course the serie A is a much higher league than MLS however, maybe Conte might have membered the last World Cup and taken a chance on one of the best players in the MLS that's all, but I'm not surprised because being an Italy fan Italy is not a national team that makes selections that are " thinking outside the box" type selections they usually keep it pretty conservative with their selections.

[Havoc88]

On 2016-05-29 at 10:36 AM, Gian-Luca said:

Moor was directly or partially to blame on all three goals although Morrow assisted on the first and last. But I also question Vanney's tactics on this one. I am not sure what formation that was to start the game, or what Delgado and Lovitz roles were supposed to be. It looked like a 4-2-2-1-1 or something. And if you are down 3 goals with a man up at the half, why on Earth would you come out in the second half with 5 defenders and just one striker (and a rookie at that who has to take all of the corners and free kicks so there are no strikers in the box)? By the time Hamilton came on, they had wasted a good 10 minutes of the 2nd half and then NY put on an extra defender so our strikers were still outnumbered despite being a man up. That is not the way to create offense.

I would agree with pretty much all of this - outside of the back four, the only player who (to me) appeared to have any kind of disciplined role was Johnson.

At least we now know what's up with Hamilton. He's not dead, he's just going to be a random sub when we're getting killed on the road wtf.

[Gian-Luca]

45 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

It is, but when you re-watch plays you get to see more subtle but significantly important issues such as poor off the ball running and passing decisions to go along with the obvious technical malfunctions (giveaways from passing inaccuracy or lack of ball protection/shielding, both in abundance on Saturday).  That was a tough first half to watch considering that I expect this year's version of the team to be better in the marking department. 

For example, on the replay of the second goal I found myself wondering what Perquis was doing on the play, as he could have provided support to Moor and might as well have since he didn't appear to have anyone else to mark and the ball ended up in the back of the net. Not that it excuses Moor on the play in terms of 1 v. 1 defending.

In terms of running off the ball, for me that gets back to what formation TFC was supposed to be playing. It didn't look like the one that Sportsnet threw up on the screen at the beginning of the game since Lovitz was clearly playing on the right side of the field, rather than behind the two strikers (and it looked to me moreso that Giovinco was initially a lone striker before he went off). I realize tactical flexibility is a strength for a team to have but when you see teams pull that off effectively, you tend to see it happen with a solid, dependable week-in, week-out roster. With TFC over the past few weeks there have multiple formations & multiple line-up changes happening at the same time. So while some off the ball running should be instinctive, I do have a slight bit of sympathy for those not in the back four if they weren't quite sure where they were supposed to be on the field in relation to their teammates, because as a viewer I couldn't figure it out & neither could the broadcasters.

[BearcatSA]

On Monday, May 30, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Gian-Luca said:

So while some off the ball running should be instinctive, I do have a slight bit of sympathy for those not in the back four if they weren't quite sure where they were supposed to be on the field in relation to their teammates, because as a viewer I couldn't figure it out & neither could the broadcasters.

I don't disagree with your point here, but it did seem like some of the running and build up played were overly forced in order to try to get a quick goal back after the very early deficit instead of keeping possession and settle things down somewhat.  As it was, there were plenty of possession losses in the attacking build up play through poor forced passes or poor shielding/ball protection.

[Yohan]

 

 

only if Hamilton can finish like that on consistent basis... those are some high quality striker's finishes

[Dub Narcotic]

de Vos said that those moves speak to Hamilton's underlying quality and I have to agree. Wish he would show more with TFC2 but he certainly has to be in consideration for a spot in the senior 18 now with Altidore out.

[Gian-Luca]

Morgan & Lefevre (which together sounds somewhat Arthurian) almost came to blows after the Bernier red card, not sure if that was shown on television.

Somewhat surprised that the Captain's armband went to Morgan after Cheyrou exited the game - and things did get quite rum for TFC under Captain Morgan with the two late goals against.

[Oranje]

9 hours ago, Gian-Luca said:

Morgan & Lefevre (which together sounds somewhat Arthurian) almost came to blows after the Bernier red card, not sure if that was shown on television.

Somewhat surprised that the Captain's armband went to Morgan after Cheyrou exited the game - and things did get quite rum for TFC under Captain Morgan with the two late goals against.

Kind of harsh linking Captain Morgan to the late goals. TFC were where they were at because they won the midfield battle in large part to Cheyrou, so naturally the tides turned when he was substituted out. He could have given the armband to anybody and the result would have remained the same.

[BearcatSA]

28 minutes ago, Oranje said:

TFC were where they were at because they won the midfield battle in large part to Cheyrou, so naturally the tides turned when he was substituted out. 

I thought he and Delgado did really well and Osorio really delivered the kind of confident, assertive performance I've been hoping for.  Even before going a man down, the Impact midfield was subpar.

[Ivan]

35 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

I thought he and Delgado did really well and Osorio really delivered the kind of confident, assertive performance I've been hoping for.  Even before going a man down, the Impact midfield was subpar.

Agreed.  Probably Delgado's best match in a TFC uniform.  I also thought Morgan had a really good match. 

[Gian-Luca]

1 hour ago, Oranje said:

Kind of harsh linking Captain Morgan to the late goals. TFC were where they were at because they won the midfield battle in large part to Cheyrou, so naturally the tides turned when he was substituted out. He could have given the armband to anybody and the result would have remained the same.

Sorry, I guess it was too subtle or poor of a joke on my part. I wasn't serious with the Captain Morgan's Rum pun.

[Havoc88]

LOL I've watched Piatti's Pepe impersonation about 10 times. Such a bizarre sequence - he runs in to get the ball and right before he picks it up he decides instead to mouth off to Irwin who shoves him in the chest aka shoots him in the face lololol. I can never get enough of that crap.

I was happy on many levels for this match - seeing so many young guys get a chance and Morgan put in a full shift (although he did get tooled on that first goal) and showed he is in fact the more comfortable option as an attacking LB. Cheyrou I think still has value and just for passing ability and ball control I think should still be considered for the starting XI. I'm a Hamilton doubter but I tip my hat to his knack on the ball. The second goal when he delayed the first touch so he could get more space was very nice. If he can be a bit stronger and willing to challenge for loose balls I would very much be convinced of him moving forward.

[BearcatSA]

11 minutes ago, Ivan said:

Agreed.  Probably Delgado's best match in a TFC uniform.  I also thought Morgan had a really good match. 

I also thought Morgan did well.  I'm still not convinced of his overall defensive but I thought his work out there might have been enough to light a fire under the out of form Morrow.

You know a guy who really surprised last night was Hagglund, a forgotten man and someone who is seen more as a trade option around here.  I felt he did really well in his match up against Drogba.

[Havoc88]

5 minutes ago, BearcatSA said:

You know a guy who really surprised last night was Hagglund, a forgotten man and someone who is seen more as a trade option around here.  I felt he did really well in his match up against Drogba.

I shoudl have noted him as well. I have never cared for him but without looking at stats it appeared like he won every aerial challenge. He was much better than my recollection of him in 2014 and wouldn't sweat too much if he was given a shot over Wililams for some minutes.