Canadian Premier League

[matty]

4 minutes ago, Ansem said:

A CPL version of "hockey night in Canada" on CBC is a perfect way to introduce the league to Canadians.

I like the idea of a "Soccer Day in Canada" type thing on TSN. A well timed (maybe not prime time) double header of a game in the east followed by a game in the west on Saturday and Sunday that not only presents the games but also uses the time between games and halves to not only analyse the game but introduce Canadians to players and coaches, give the supporter clubs a profile and build hype for the games. This combined with a league highlight show should help build buzz.

MLS's TV product is no where near as fun or accessible as the other leagues that we have in North America and lacks the prestige that is given to the EPL by North American media (I'm saying EPL because the EPL is one of two leagues that kills the MLS in TV ratings).

[matty]

13 minutes ago, ted said:

Nope. Ridiculous idea that undermines the integrity of the league, alienates supporters and would make CPL games a joke to the media.

Why would you play two games in the same stadium? That would make three of the teams "visitors" and deprive one team of a home game. Why would you penalize the supporters by forcing supporters of both teams to travel to a game?

What kind of sideshow carnival do you think this should be?

 

 

I didn't say same stadium. I was referring to TV broadcasts.

[Ansem]

Just now, ted said:

I'm curious what you mean by that remark. How exactly has MLS "failed"?

MLS failed to replicate what the other big leagues have done (MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL in Canada). To care about the whole league and not only your home club.

Americans knows their basketball and football, all the way from NCAA to the major league. They know their baseball, no only their clubs but other clubs and players. Most of them have top 3 to 5 teams as their favorites. March Madness, Super Bowl, World Series and NBA finals are followed by America, not just the fan base of the clubs involved, just like in European football. Canadians have the same attitude in regards to Canadian Hockey clubs, CHL and recently Blue Jays and Raptors are still debatable.

The problem with MLS is that no one cares about the league, their MLS Cup, players and clubs that aren't their own, supporter's shield or the Champions League. MLS from a marketing point of view is a very poorly presented product. Their TV ratings being abysmal and playoff ratings being an embarrassment reflects that.

I'd like to think I know my football and watch lots of MLS but outside of TFC, Montreal and Vancouver, I barely know any of the other players as I see them as interchangeable players as a whole and that's bad, very bad. I credit TSN for their coverage of the 3 Canadian clubs and that's probably why I know them better than the rest of the league. I've watched MLS from the US and their are very focused on their clubs and TV analysts does a poor job at presenting the league as a whole, explaining the CCL, football in general...It's truly truly awful.

That's why I think using CBC for a "Soccer night in Canada" for CPL is the right thing to do. Who can deny what hockey night in Canada did for hockey in this country? They always give us an extensive analysis of not only all the Canadian clubs from coast to coast but the NHL as a whole, it's policies, it's rules, other clubs and players. That's something that Americans are expert at doing for NFL, MLB and NBA already but just can't quite do for MLS or NHL in the United States.

I don't watch CFL but I'm assuming that's what they do to some extend. Just saying that marketing wise, lets replicate at the very least what TSN is doing for MLS and ideally, giving it more of a "hockey night in Canada feel" or a combo of both.

• Extensive coverage of all the teams and players, don't be too club centrist at half time. Save that for the pregame show and during the game.
• Half time is where you talk about football, it's history, Canada's place in the world of FIFA, CCL, Canadian players & clubs, ownership, stats, pyramid, etc... Educate the viewers you're trying to hook.
• CBC for National exposure from coast to coast is a must.

[zen]

25 minutes ago, Ansem said:

MLS failed to replicate what the other big leagues have done (MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL in Canada). To care about the whole league and not only your home club.

Americans knows their basketball and football, all the way from NCAA to the major league. They know their baseball, no only their clubs but other clubs and players. Most of them have top 3 to 5 teams as their favorites. March Madness, Super Bowl, World Series and NBA finals are followed by America, not just the fan base of the clubs involved, just like in European football. Canadians have the same attitude in regards to Canadian Hockey clubs, CHL and recently Blue Jays and Raptors are still debatable.

The problem with MLS is that no one cares about the league, their MLS Cup, players and clubs that aren't their own, supporter's shield or the Champions League. MLS from a marketing point of view is a very poorly presented product. Their TV ratings being abysmal and playoff ratings being an embarrassment reflects that.

I'd like to think I know my football and watch lots of MLS but outside of TFC, Montreal and Vancouver, I barely know any of the other players as I see them as interchangeable players as a whole and that's bad, very bad. I credit TSN for their coverage of the 3 Canadian clubs and that's probably why I know them better than the rest of the league. I've watched MLS from the US and their are very focused on their clubs and TV analysts does a poor job at presenting the league as a whole, explaining the CCL, football in general...It's truly truly awful.

That's why I think using CBC for a "Soccer night in Canada" for CPL is the right thing to do. Who can deny what hockey night in Canada did for hockey in this country? They always give us an extensive analysis of not only all the Canadian clubs from coast to coast but the NHL as a whole, it's policies, it's rules, other clubs and players. That's something that Americans are expert at doing for NFL, MLB and NBA already but just can't quite do for MLS or NHL in the United States.

I don't watch CFL but I'm assuming that's what they do to some extend. Just saying that marketing wise, lets replicate at the very least what TSN is doing for MLS and ideally, giving it more of a "hockey night in Canada feel" or a combo of both.

• Extensive coverage of all the teams and players, don't be too club centrist at half time. Save that for the pregame show and during the game.
• Half time is where you talk about football, it's history, Canada's place in the world of FIFA, CCL, Canadian players & clubs, ownership, stats, pyramid, etc... Educate the viewers you're trying to hook.
• CBC for National exposure from coast to coast is a must.

Actually I think you're only partially correct about that. MLS to an extent has been able to achieve just that, check out mlssoccer.com, there are plenty of people from that know a significant amount about other teams than their own. However, the website is not representative of the majority of people that might go out to games, or watch it on TV - many of these people might not even be die hard supporters of the sport, they probably just go out to have a good time with which there is nothing wrong. I think it takes time to develop a culture that cares enough to watch other teams play, or to know the happening around the league. If the CPL is even moderately successful, I think it will struggle with the same issue with the many of the people that go to games. The voyageurs forum obviously wouldn't be representative as mlssoccer.com isn't to deducing how much fans care about the league and other teams as a whole.

And you're right of course that media has a big role to play in league education.

[matty]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

The problem with MLS is that no one cares about the league, their MLS Cup, players and clubs that aren't their own, supporter's shield or the Champions League. MLS from a marketing point of view is a very poorly presented product. Their TV ratings being abysmal and playoff ratings being an embarrassment reflects that.

I don't feel it's fair to say MLS TV rating are abysmal. Could they be better? Yes but they're not as awful as everyone likes to think they are. They grow each year and are only beat in the ratings, soccer wise, by Liga MX and the mega hyped EPL. The main problem when it comes to MLS TV is that ESPN, Fox and Univision invested a lot of money and the ratings while "ok" are not justifying that investment.

Worth noting a big reason why MLS TV isn't doing strong enough to recoup the money invested in it is because the games are not promoted enough

[Complete Homer]

On 01/10/2016 at 2:36 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

Glitch 

 

Quote

On 05/10/2016 at 9:37 AM, Ansem said:

• Glitch

 

25 minutes ago, matty said:

I don't feel it's fair to say MLS TV rating are abysmal. Could they be better? Yes but they're not as awful as everyone likes to think they are. They grow each year and are only beat in the ratings, soccer wise, by Liga MX and the mega hyped EPL. The main problem when it comes to MLS TV is that ESPN, Fox and Univision invested a lot of money and the ratings while "ok" are not justifying that investment.

Worth noting a big reason why MLS TV isn't doing strong enough to recoup the money invested in it is because the games are not promoted enough

Hasn't MLS drawn sub 50k on sports network, and struggles to break 100k on TSN? I'd call that pretty poor. I don't think CPL would be any better, and it won't be a real revenue source anytime soon, but at least there would be additional exposure 

[Kent]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

I'd like to think I know my football and watch lots of MLS but outside of TFC, Montreal and Vancouver, I barely know any of the other players as I see them as interchangeable players as a whole and that's bad, very bad. I credit TSN for their coverage of the 3 Canadian clubs and that's probably why I know them better than the rest of the league.

TSN does cover the 3 Canadian teams, but does nothing for the rest of the league. They never, ever, ever show highlights of league games involving two American teams, with the possible exception of Orlando games since Cyle Larin is a regular there. there could be a historic game between two American teams and TSN wouldn't mention it on Sportscentre. Even the odd all American game that TSN broadcasts doesn't make the highlight package.

You made a point in an earlier comment about Canadians becoming more patriotic since Vancouver 2010. I've felt that too, and I hope it translates to better support for the CPL if it comes to fruition. I will note that the one thing that might be obscuring some of your points is that it might not just be that Canadians love to watch other Canadian teams, but Canadians LOVE to watch Canadian teams beat American teams. Hopefully in CPL there will eventually be interest for games between two out of market teams, despite missing the obvious American foe.

[matty]

6 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

 

 

Hasn't MLS drawn sub 50k on sports network, and struggles to break 100k on TSN? I'd call that pretty poor. I don't think CPL would be any better, and it won't be a real revenue source anytime soon, but at least there would be additional exposure 

I have read MLS on Canadian TV is all over the place when it comes to viewership but Canadian TV isn't the league's focus. Also 100K on TSN isn't terrible as TSN averages like 200k when it has hockey on i think.

[Kent]

2 hours ago, matty said:

I'm curious if bigger clubs would too. If the ownership is rich enough they should be able to bring over a Stoke City or a Hertha and Canada is a massive market should playing here might benefit their brands as well. The hold backs are whether they're playing on turf and the fear CPL clubs won't be a worth while warm up.

For the record, Rangers played the Fury a few years ago back during their struggles.

And KW played Sporting Lisbon FFS! That one still surprises me 3 years later.

http://www.kwunitedfc.com/createarticle.php?ID=74

[Complete Homer]

^Good point. I guess it's a decent possibility they could get a big name each season to play a few exhibitions. Some NASL teams have managed to do it too

[matty]

9 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

^Good point. I guess it's a decent possibility they could get a big name each season to play a few exhibitions. Some NASL teams have managed to do it too

I've said it before and I'll say it again: 4 teams each doing a 2 city tour during the CPL mid season break. 1 East 1 West . Just imagine the excitement! I bet it would look like this....

 

[Ansem]

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Hopefully in CPL there will eventually be interest for games between two out of market teams, despite missing the obvious American foe.

The best ratings for NHL in Canada are when Canadian clubs faces each other!

[ted]

3 hours ago, matty said:

I didn't say same stadium. I was referring to TV broadcasts.

My bad.

Coordinating KO for TV? Fine idea.

 

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

MLS failed to replicate what the other big leagues have done (MLB, NFL, NBA and NHL in Canada). To care about the whole league and not only your home club....

So no actual, measurable failure then?

It is good to know how you define failure. What amuses me now is how you would define success given that for you, a league that draws decent crowds, is on TV, and attracts reasonable sponsorships, is a failure. I cannot begin to imagine what "success" looks like in your world.

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Love the "Soccer Day in Canada" Idea.

Educate the soccer moms so that they not only understand the sport, but understand their kids/canada's role in it.

I swear, people overestimate how many people dislike soccer when in reality so many people just don't really understand it.  

our 3 MLS teams have done wonders for getting people to understand why live pro soccer is fun/different from some other sports.

 

[zen]

3 hours ago, Ansem said:

The best ratings for NHL in Canada are when Canadian clubs faces each other!

maybe that's cause audience from the 2 cities are watching therefore not splitting viewership between 2 games?

[Ansem]

2 minutes ago, zen said:

maybe that's cause audience from the 2 cities are watching therefore not splitting viewership between 2 games?

Why so pessimistic about CanadIan just liking watching their own?

Highest ratings, period.

[zen]

4 hours ago, Ansem said:

Why so pessimistic about CanadIan just liking watching their own?

Highest ratings, period.

I'm not, it was a question. In hindsight, I could've phrased that better.

[ironcub14]

I understand the TV discussion is important, but nobody watching CPL matches on TSN/CBC is gonna take it seriously if there are 2,000 people watching it in a cavernous CFL stadium.

By far the biggest worry I have, and the focus of our energy we should concentrate on if a CPL comes to life, is how we're gonna get thousands of mainstream fannies in the seats, and enough flags, scarves and the occasional smoke bombs in the supporter sections.

[ironcub14]

And to answer my own question quickly, the matches obviously have to be centred primarily on the weekend afternoon/evenings, with the CFL schedule the only real schedule to juggle around.

I ran it quickly by my Euro-snob friends who can barely be convinced to follow TFC. They did say that CPL matches on Wednesday evenings, after UCL on Wednesday afternoons, would be something they might casually follow. And most definitely, the weekend afternoons after EPL.

[Pqhbv]

12 minutes ago, ironcub14 said:

I understand the TV discussion is important, but nobody watching CPL matches on TSN/CBC is gonna take it seriously if there are 2,000 people watching it in a cavernous CFL stadium.

By far the biggest worry I have, and the focus of our energy we should concentrate on if a CPL comes to life, is how we're gonna get thousands of mainstream fannies in the seats, and enough flags, scarves and the occasional smoke bombs in the supporter sections.

I think a good template to look at would be OFFC. The seem to do fairly well in the CFL sized stadium and the crowds I see on streams are lively/decent. I think this model coupled/supplemented by TV and a national marketing campaign could work out in the current CFL cities.

[ironcub14]

20 minutes ago, Pqhbv said:

I think a good template to look at would be OFFC. The seem to do fairly well in the CFL sized stadium and the crowds I see on streams are lively/decent. I think this model coupled/supplemented by TV and a national marketing campaign could work out in the current CFL cities.

Oh for sure, I saw the Fury transition from PDL to NASL very closely up front, and I could list a number of good things and factors that went their way, for OFFC/OSEG and the Ottawa supporters.

I'm sure the other CPL clubs will follow many similar things the Fury and the MLS clubs did, and they will add their own creative and innovative ideas.

My big worry is if all that, all that, will be enough to get the thousands of mainstream fannies at CPL matches, that's all.

[MtlMario]

I think what also would be very important for the CPL teams to do is to get into the schools,get them interested in their new home team.If they want to go,their parents have to go.Make the pricing reasonable,no $12 beers and $6 hotdogs.Just a couple of things that were not mentioned till now. Can't wait for the announcement.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

2 hours ago, Pqhbv said:

I think a good template to look at would be OFFC. The seem to do fairly well in the CFL sized stadium and the crowds I see on streams are lively/decent. I think this model coupled/supplemented by TV and a national marketing campaign could work out in the current CFL cities.

They are said to be losing $1.5 to $2 million a year and are looking to downscale their budget by moving from the NASL to the USL and shuttering their academy program, because the healthy looking crowds are being generated by very generous ticket discounts to youth soccer clubs. In financial terms that is not a case of doing fairly well.

[ironcub14]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

They are said to be losing $1.5 to $2 million a year and are looking to downscale their budget by moving from the NASL to the USL and shuttering their academy program, because the healthy looking crowds are being generated by very generous ticket discounts to youth soccer clubs. In financial terms that is not a case of doing fairly well.

While all this is true, I think most people in this thread would reply that CPL prospective owners, if/when they do materialize, would all be of enough financial stature to handle these type of losses over a sustained period. As for OSEG/Fury specifically in this case, the struggles of NASL and the promise of CPL is playing a role in the downsizing as well, which we can't forget.

Basically, for myself at least, it seems that we are boiling down success to one criteria only, and that would be average attendance. Which the Fury are doing okay in, considering all things.

[ironcub14]

Just to add, I do always add the caveat of "if/when they do materialize" for CPL prospective ownership groups, because I feel that is by and far the biggest promise that keeps a CPL idea alive. If they do not materialize despite all the rumours and all of our wishes, I would firmly swing my pendulum back to the need for a gradual USL expansion approach in Canada.