Canadian Premier League

[Pqhbv]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

They are said to be losing $1.5 to $2 million a year and are looking to downscale their budget by moving from the NASL to the USL and shuttering their academy program, because the healthy looking crowds are being generated by very generous ticket discounts to youth soccer clubs. In financial terms that is not a case of doing fairly well.

Budget losses in the NASL (or even USL) can be chalked up to two things the CPL will not have to deal with: USD>CAD and Miami FC/Cosmos.

I would still argue -despite the reported losses- OFFC is a good template for the CFL-owned teams reported to be interested in the CPL. They've certainly done a better job at getting a good atmosphere in a CFL sized venue compared to some other minor league soccer teams. 

I think we would all agree the CPL should expect losses at first and not bring in a profit for some time. Yet getting youth out, even at discounts, may bode well for the future, compared to FC Montreal's (sorry) atmosphere. 

[Gordon]

21 hours ago, Pqhbv said:

Budget losses in the NASL (or even USL) can be chalked up to two things the CPL will not have to deal with: USD>CAD and Miami FC/Cosmos.

I would still argue -despite the reported losses- OFFC is a good template for the CFL-owned teams reported to be interested in the CPL. They've certainly done a better job at getting a good atmosphere in a CFL sized venue compared to some other minor league soccer teams. 

I think we would all agree the CPL should expect losses at first and not bring in a profit for some time. Yet getting youth out, even at discounts, may bode well for the future, compared to FC Montreal's (sorry) atmosphere. 

One caution I'd offer is that too many of us are earnestly concerned about the the things that confirm our view of the world, and dismissive of things that do not. Loses in NASL are a "risk" while more significant losses in MLS are dismissed as a tax dodge or a wink wink nudge nudge lie to keep salaries down. Stefan Szymanski, co-author of Soccernomics, recently reported being told by a source in MLS that 30% of all MLS attendance does not generate revenue (ie they are freebies), but this information is ignored or discoucounted. 

I don't know what the business model for CPL will look like. I do know that MLS exists only because of a model whereby USSF heavily subsidizes MLS through the TV deal, and favourable arrangements with SUM allowing the owners to control revenue they do not generate through league operations in exchange for running a money loosing league.

If CPL is to succeed, it is going to need to be able to benefit from broader control of, or access to, the Canadian soccer market as a whole. Just as MLS does in the States.

second edit: this was not intended specifically in reply to above quoted, but more generally.

[Dub Narcotic]

@gordon there are rumors that Chicago is on the edge financially in MLS. You are right that US national team money probably keeps MLS from financial difficulty, which is why some of the comments here or from goofballs like Steven Sandor about the Canadian clubs subsidizing U.S. soccer are pretty stupid. It's actually completely the other way around on multiple levels.

[-Hammer-]

On 10/7/2016 at 5:44 PM, Pqhbv said:

Budget losses in the NASL (or even USL) can be chalked up to two things the CPL will not have to deal with: USD>CAD and Miami FC/Cosmos.

I would still argue -despite the reported losses- OFFC is a good template for the CFL-owned teams reported to be interested in the CPL. They've certainly done a better job at getting a good atmosphere in a CFL sized venue compared to some other minor league soccer teams. 

I think we would all agree the CPL should expect losses at first and not bring in a profit for some time. Yet getting youth out, even at discounts, may bode well for the future, compared to FC Montreal's (sorry) atmosphere. 

Lets also not forget not having the make constant flights to Florida and Peurto Rico.

 

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The break even level for paid attendances that have been mentioned for Ottawa and Edmonton have been in the 7500-9000 range. It takes a lot more than slightly decreased travel costs and wrapping everything up in a Maple Leaf to make an NASL level of operations suddenly look like a good move financially in cities like Victoria and Moncton when it hasn't looked like a sensible investment previously in USSF sanctioned leagues.

[Pqhbv]

15 hours ago, -Hammer- said:

Lets also not forget not having the make constant flights to Florida and Peurto Rico.

 

Might be in similar price ranges to flights across this country. I think travel difference between the CPL and NASL will relatively neutral. Like I said, I believe savings will be recouped/uncovered in currency disparity and having to compete with big budget teams.

I think around 5k avg attendance across the league should be the target for the first year. I forget who, someone on this board ran some hypothetical numbers assuming a low money TSN TV deal and it seemed pretty feasible.

[Complete Homer]

On 07/10/2016 at 11:09 AM, ironcub14 said:

Glitch

 

On 07/10/2016 at 11:09 AM, ironcub14 said:

31 minutes ago, Pqhbv said:

Might be in similar price ranges to flights across this country. I think travel difference between the CPL and NASL will relatively neutral. Like I said, I believe savings will be recouped/uncovered in currency disparity and having to compete with big budget teams.

I think around 5k avg attendance across the league should be the target for the first year. I forget who, someone on this board ran some hypothetical numbers assuming a low money TSN TV deal and it seemed pretty feasible.

 

I don't think so. I think it was Hammer's suggestion of two home/aways for intraconference teams and one home/away for intraconference teams, resulting in only 4 flights per year per team, with the exception of a few long distance intraconference games (such as BC -> Winnipeg). 

Contrast that with nearly every FC Edmonton away game being a flight, it'd be a big difference. 

[-Hammer-]

On 10/9/2016 at 3:28 PM, Pqhbv said:

Might be in similar price ranges to flights across this country. I think travel difference between the CPL and NASL will relatively neutral. Like I said, I believe savings will be recouped/uncovered in currency disparity and having to compete with big budget teams.

I think around 5k avg attendance across the league should be the target for the first year. I forget who, someone on this board ran some hypothetical numbers assuming a low money TSN TV deal and it seemed pretty feasible.

I disagree, mainly because you will have a lot more teams within bus range. None of Edmonton's current teams can be driven to for an away game effectively save maybe Minnesota and Ottawa to New York, and maybe Raleigh is the only options to bus.

Peurto Rico is especially bad for Edmonton as it without fail will require a connecting flight.

If you have Edmonton, Calgary, Regina, Saskatoon, Vancouver and Winnipeg, you can charter buses. This is also the case for Ottawa to Hamilton, Montreal, Quebec City, Toronto or London.

[MtlMario]

Corporations That Should/Could Be Involved With CPL.

Air Canada or Westjet or Air Transat (travel)

Canadian Tire (cup)

Roots (uniforms) (good way to start in the line)

Tim Hortons

Greyhound (travel)

Petro Canada

Any thoughts?

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The driving time from Edmonton to Winnipeg is about 14 hours, while Edmonton to Vancouver is about 13 hours. Junior hockey can do that by bus with teenage high school kids, but I seriously doubt pro level soccer teams would.

http://www.travelmath.com/driving-time/from/Vancouver,+Canada/to/Edmonton,+Canada

http://www.travelmath.com/driving-time/from/Edmonton,+Canada/to/Winnipeg,+Canada

[matty]

15 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Roots (uniforms) (good way to start in the line)

Nah it'll be American Apparel. This league is gonna be edgy AF

[-Hammer-]

14 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The driving time from Edmonton to Winnipeg is about 14 hours, while Edmonton to Vancouver is about 13 hours. Junior hockey can do that by bus with teenage high school kids, but I seriously doubt pro level soccer teams would.

http://www.travelmath.com/driving-time/from/Vancouver,+Canada/to/Edmonton,+Canada

http://www.travelmath.com/driving-time/from/Edmonton,+Canada/to/Winnipeg,+Canada

So let me understand this...high school kids that have school and grades they must meet to continue to play, in addition to hockey and practice can do it, but adult professionals whose, literal day job it is to travel, practice and play soccer can't.

26 minutes ago, MtlMario said:

Corporations That Should/Could Be Involved With CPL.

Air Canada or Westjet or Air Transat (travel)

Canadian Tire (cup)

Roots (uniforms) (good way to start in the line)

Tim Hortons

Greyhound (travel)

Petro Canada

Any thoughts?

One airline makes sense, Canadian Tire makes sense as they sponsor just about every Canadian sport (except the CFL oddly enough. Probably because they don't sell anywhere near as much Football equipment), Roots isn't as Canadian as they used to be, I would expect given the CFL and rumored CSA connections that this goes to Addidas, Tim Hortons is a no brianer. Tim Bits soccer has long been one of their programs (for good or ill). Greyhound...not sure, they aren't a huge Canadian company, not sure how much they'd care for the exposure. Petro Canada maybe, gas is an oddball as stations aren't always ubiquitous. I see them maybe as a regional sponsor, much like Pioneer sponsors the OHL and some CFL teams.

I'd also expect one of the banks to step up to the plate. If not BMO then one of the others to get in on the racket. Likely Scotiabank, simply because they sponsor the CONCAAF Champions league and may want more soccer marketing presence.
 

[Bison44]

Hammer

I think the point is Junior teams and amateur teams will do it because they don't have viable options.  Any PRO soccer player coming would expect flights and not 14hr bus rides.  If you are trying to attract some lower level europe players, telling them 14hr bus rides will be common, wont help make them come back to canada.  WPG to VAN is 2300km, that needs to be a flight.  Canada is a big country, you cant cut travel costs down that much with charter buses for alot of the teams that might be in CPL. And Edmonton to Minnesota is a 20hr drive at least!  1800km or so??  No way that is within driving range.  

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

Just now, -Hammer- said:

So let me understand this...high school kids that have school and grades they must meet to continue to play, in addition to hockey and practice can do it, but adult professionals whose, literal day job it is to travel, practice and play soccer can't.

One lot are chasing the dream of an NHL contract and get assigned to a specific team through a draft, so they can basically be exploited by the WHL owners because of the carrot that gets dangled in front of them that most will never get close to. The other lot are adults that can easily decide to sign for another team or play in another league somewhere like Scandinavia before we get into any concerns over what sitting on a bus for 14 hours does to athletic performance.

[rob.notenboom]

All prairie teams will be sponsored by Co-op. 

[MtlMario]

47 minutes ago, -Hammer- said:

So let me understand this...high school kids that have school and grades they must meet to continue to play, in addition to hockey and practice can do it, but adult professionals whose, literal day job it is to travel, practice and play soccer can't.

One airline makes sense, Canadian Tire makes sense as they sponsor just about every Canadian sport (except the CFL oddly enough. Probably because they don't sell anywhere near as much Football equipment), Roots isn't as Canadian as they used to be, I would expect given the CFL and rumored CSA connections that this goes to Addidas, Tim Hortons is a no brianer. Tim Bits soccer has long been one of their programs (for good or ill). Greyhound...not sure, they aren't a huge Canadian company, not sure how much they'd care for the exposure. Petro Canada maybe, gas is an oddball as stations aren't always ubiquitous. I see them maybe as a regional sponsor, much like Pioneer sponsors the OHL and some CFL teams.

I'd also expect one of the banks to step up to the plate. If not BMO then one of the others to get in on the racket. Likely Scotiabank, simply because they sponsor the CONCAAF Champions league and may want more soccer marketing presence.
 

Yes,I forgot to mention one of the major banks has to be in. Thanks.

[matty]

I'm reading the Howarth story (if you don't know what I'm talking about click here for a super simple version) and I just hope this leagues ownership doesn't create any stupid naming, logo or even mascot controversy.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

22 minutes ago, matty said:

I'm reading the Howarth story (if you don't know what I'm talking about click here for a super simple version) and I just hope this leagues ownership doesn't create any stupid naming, logo or even mascot controversy.

It would be tough to top Redskins.

wondering if you guys had seen this already lol

kinda hammers the point home.

I've always wondered though - is it social justice warrior-y to say, "hey, my friend is Native and he think's it's fucked up..Hence I take his word for it and think it's fucked up" ?

Nice thing about soccer is even if we used some indigenous imagery, the likelihood of naming the team something offensive is pretty low, as they'll most likely be named INSERT CITY HERE FC, UNITED or something tame.

And really, north of the border, the only one that you can make a case for being offensive is the Eskimos... which they should just change to Elk cause you wouldn't have to change the logo.

sorry.  that got a little ramble-y but I've been talking about this with my buddy for the last few days(he's metis)

[matty]

5 minutes ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

It would be tough to top Redskins.

wondering if you guys had seen this already lol

kinda hammers the point home.

I've always wondered though - is it social justice warrior-y to say, "hey, my friend is Native and he think's it's fucked up..Hence I take his word for it and think it's fucked up" ?

Nice thing about soccer is even if we used some indigenous imagery, the likelihood of naming the team something offensive is pretty low, as they'll most likely be named INSERT CITY HERE FC, UNITED or something tame.

And really, north of the border, the only one that you can make a case for being offensive is the Eskimos... which they should just change to Elk cause you wouldn't have to change the logo.

sorry.  that got a little ramble-y but I've been talking about this with my buddy for the last few days(he's metis)

I don't think we're likely to see a name unless Goldhar actually names the Toronto team "Maccabi Toronto FC" and opens up that can of worms. But you never know, just 2 years ago the Redblacks changed the name of their mascot after controversy from Francophone fans.

Also to address your question, I don't think there's anything wrong with finding something offensive when there's a rational reason behind finding it offensive.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

The only public expression of interest in a CPL team in the GTA so far has come from TFC with TFC III floated as a possible name in Kurt Larsson's article in the Toronto Sun.

[Gopherbashi]

7 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

And really, north of the border, the only one that you can make a case for being offensive is the Eskimos... which they should just change to Elk cause you wouldn't have to change the logo.

It never ceases to amaze me about how self-righteous us Canadians get about team names like the Braves, Redskins, and Indians, while routinely ignoring the Eskimo, er, Elephant in the room.

I know it gets some press from time-to-time, but nowhere near the amount of outrage we seem to hold for the American teams.

[Macksam]

5 hours ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

The only public expression of interest in a CPL team in the GTA so far has come from TFC with TFC III floated as a possible name in Kurt Larsson's article in the Toronto Sun.

Assisted suicide is legal in Canada now.

[grande]

8 hours ago, Gopherbashi said:

It never ceases to amaze me about how self-righteous us Canadians get about team names like the Braves, Redskins, and Indians, while routinely ignoring the Eskimo, er, Elephant in the room.

I know it gets some press from time-to-time, but nowhere near the amount of outrage we seem to hold for the American teams.

I'd be happy if they all changed their names, but

1. The word "Eskimo" isn't a slur like Redskin. Edit: Turns out I was wrong on this point!

2. The logo isn't as awful as "Chief Wahoo"

3. Their fans don't do anything like the Tomahawk Chop in Atlanta

[ted]

1 hour ago, grande said:

I'd be happy if they all changed their names, but

1. The word "Eskimo" isn't a slur like Redskin

I think you need to catch up with current events. It has always been a slur and why the term Inuit has become the norm.

[-Hammer-]

On 10/11/2016 at 1:56 PM, BringBackTheBlizzard said:

One lot are chasing the dream of an NHL contract and get assigned to a specific team through a draft, so they can basically be exploited by the WHL owners because of the carrot that gets dangled in front of them that most will never get close to. The other lot are adults that can easily decide to sign for another team or play in another league somewhere like Scandinavia before we get into any concerns over what sitting on a bus for 14 hours does to athletic performance.

To the first group, but they still somehow manage in a league that demands passing grades consistently throughout the semester or play and practice is immediately suspended. The reasons why they do it, are irrelevant, they have a much more of their time consumed by school, playing the game and developing then an adult whose job it is to play and develop.

To the second, sure they can but those spots are few are far between if you are a Canadian and there are plenty from South America who would happily sit on a bus for 14 hours to play soccer, get minutes and a chance to develop as a player and get paid 45,000 a year for it.

However, even if we dismiss that fact, we still have to accept that flights to Winnipeg and Victoria are far cheaper then flights to Florida and Peurto Rico (a cursory google flight search reveals such flights are around half the cost) where most of the NASL is based, and still far cheaper then New York, Oklahoma, San Francisco and Raleigh.

Also that Regina, Saskatoon and Calgary are also still within bus range.