ted Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 2 hours ago, Rheo said: You may be right but I'll bet on a similar structure to MLS including a draft. I don't see anyone signing with a different league as a any type of hit. It's not a hit on the CFL when they draft a Canadian and he chooses to go the NFL. Just gives the team the rights to the player. What is interesting is that the draft system only really works for the leagues that are top of the food chain. NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB are all the top-paying leagues in their sport. It means something to be drafted by teams in that league as it has a real effect on a players earning potential and career options. MLS, and even more so CanPL, are not the top of the food chain so getting drafted is far less meaningful. 32 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Don't want to give anybody ideas with this as I think it's low life behaviour, but people will often register trademarks and claim urls for websites that might be used in future by businesses and sports teams in the hope that somebody will eventually pay to buy them. Which is why I was surprised that CanPL was not registered when the first mentions of the potential league were floated. It is routine for businesses to register several tentative trademarks if they are creating a new brand or product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 11 hours ago, Blue and White Army said: Glitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Ansem said: You realize you are looking into a mirror, right? Your infantile premise is that registered names are substantial evidence. While they are in fact evidence of having registered a name, and nothing more. So stop insisting on such a puerile position. Imagine, any of the many other ownership groups could have made this move over the last few months, grabbing the juicy ones. And none did. Now why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 47 minutes ago, ted said: Which is why I was surprised that CanPL was not registered when the first mentions of the potential league were floated. It is routine for businesses to register several tentative trademarks if they are creating a new brand or product. Maybe it was because it is really hard for something existing only in one's imagination to do the paperwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 minute ago, Unnamed Trialist said: You realize you are looking into a mirror, right? Your infantile premise is that registered names are substantial evidence. While they are in fact evidence of having registered a name, and nothing more. So stop insisting on such a puerile position. Imagine, any of the many other ownership groups could have made this move over the last few months, grabbing the juicy ones. And none did. Now why is that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in Canada the rules around trademark enforcement is a bit different than the states. IIRC, you have a much shorter window to demonstrate that you are using your trademark than other jurisdictions, so you only register close to the time of use I remember TFC trademarked a whole wack of names pretty shortly before the official announcement, it isn't exactly unprecedented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Think you get it for fifteen years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_trademark_law#Duration_and_termination Duration and termination A duly registered trademark is valid for fifteen years and may be renewed in perpetuity, making it the only form of intellectual property with statutory protections that do not definitively expire. However, sections 44 and 45 of the act permit the registrar to require, from time to time, owners submit information or evidence regarding the ongoing usage of registered marks. If a trademark is abandoned, shows no evidence of being used or is not renewed the Registrar of Trade-marks may expunge the trademark from the register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Hammer- Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Unnamed Trialist said: You realize you are looking into a mirror, right? Your infantile premise is that registered names are substantial evidence. While they are in fact evidence of having registered a name, and nothing more. So stop insisting on such a puerile position. Imagine, any of the many other ownership groups could have made this move over the last few months, grabbing the juicy ones. And none did. Now why is that? I think the problem here is that your analogy that owning god.com makes you god is exceptionally poor. Preregistering a domain or trademark either to park the domain/name in the expectation of potentially using said Trademark is a reasonable albeit a minor incomplete piece of evidence that a team/league may be coming down the pipe. The reason being, it doesn't make sense to spend time and money, as trademark registration (which typically requires the involvement of a lawyer and a degree of legal expertise or at the very least $250) and is a process that take several months to complete. You are somewhat correct though, it is a weak piece of evidence as for all we know this could just be the Ti-Cats looking to sell retro Steelers merchandise and parking the name so no one else takes it. I think the reason for Ansem's rather humorous picture was your implication that registering a trademark would suddenly grant one divine providence. That not only doesn't really apply to this situation, but is also absurdly silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rheo Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, ted said: What is interesting is that the draft system only really works for the leagues that are top of the food chain. NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB are all the top-paying leagues in their sport. It means something to be drafted by teams in that league as it has a real effect on a players earning potential and career options. MLS, and even more so CanPL, are not the top of the food chain so getting drafted is far less meaningful. Never said it would work, Just drafts are a North American sporting norm and I have a hard time seeing it being abandonned here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 13 minutes ago, BringBackTheBlizzard said: Think you get it for fifteen years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_trademark_law#Duration_and_termination Duration and termination A duly registered trademark is valid for fifteen years and may be renewed in perpetuity, making it the only form of intellectual property with statutory protections that do not definitively expire. However, sections 44 and 45 of the act permit the registrar to require, from time to time, owners submit information or evidence regarding the ongoing usage of registered marks. If a trademark is abandoned, shows no evidence of being used or is not renewed the Registrar of Trade-marks may expunge the trademark from the register. I don't think that's quite what I'm getting at That's 15 years without need for renewal, but you have to actively demonstrate that you are using a trademark way before then, otherwise anyone can come along and challenge the trademark (and win). If you can argue that you are currently in the process of implementing the use of the trademark a short time after registering, the argument can be made that you aren't just squatting on a the trademark, but you can't register something for five years then yell dibs when someone else uses the name. It doesn't work like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 21 hours ago, Blackdude said: In news: someone who is at the same address as the Hamilton Tiger Cats has trademarked "Canadian Premier League", "The CPL", "CPL" "Premiere Ligue" "Ligue Canadienne Premier (sic) de Soccer", "Premier League (sic) Canadienne" , "Hamilton Steelers" and "Hamilton United". All those were filed on September 28 and formalized 2 days later. The domains for all of those ending .ca and .com are also taken, excepting the one ending "soccer". www.canadiansoccerleague.com and .ca are also taken, but www.canadasoccerleague is available. So there is still room for a rival proposal!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unnamed Trialist Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 21 hours ago, Blackdude said: In news: someone who is at the same address as the Hamilton Tiger Cats has trademarked "Canadian Premier League", "The CPL", "CPL" "Premiere Ligue" "Ligue Canadienne Premier (sic) de Soccer", "Premier League (sic) Canadienne" , "Hamilton Steelers" and "Hamilton United". All those were filed on September 28 and formalized 2 days later. And regarding this, Canadian trademark law states the following: no one can make a claim in the first three years after registration, and only after three years can, after which the holder could be required to prove use in that 3-year period. And the Registrar, after three months time to provide evidence, could opt to expunge or amend the rights of the holder. http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/T-13/page-9.html#h-11 Registrar may request evidence of user 45 (1) The Registrar may at any time and, at the written request made after three years from the date of the registration of a trade-mark by any person who pays the prescribed fee shall, unless the Registrar sees good reason to the contrary, give notice to the registered owner of the trade-mark requiring the registered owner to furnish within three months an affidavit or a statutory declaration showing, with respect to each of the goods or services specified in the registration, whether the trade-mark was in use in Canada at any time during the three year period immediately preceding the date of the notice and, if not, the date when it was last so in use and the reason for the absence of such use since that date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Complete Homer said: I don't think that's quite what I'm getting at That's 15 years without need for renewal, but you have to actively demonstrate that you are using a trademark way before then, otherwise anyone can come along and challenge the trademark (and win). If you can argue that you are currently implementing the use of the trademark a short time after registering, the argument can be made that you aren't just squatting on a the trademark, but you can't register something for five years then yell dibs when someone else uses the name. It doesn't work like that After doing some more googling it looks to me like they have three years to file a declaration of use from when they filed the trademark late last month, with the other possibility being six months after approval of the trademark, if that process drags on for more than three years. http://www.robic.ca/admin/pdf/587/230E-LC2007.pdf Looks like it is possible to get an extension on filing the declaration of use beyond the three years if they can provide a compelling argument for the delay. Not an expert on this, so this information might be out of date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Has anybody done any digging (or does anyone know off hand) what you have to show for the trademark registration to be accepted? Is it merely a matter of filling out a form and paying a fee or do you need to display some reasonable ability to actually use the trademark for its intended purpose? Lawyers among us? @BrennanFan maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Details are here: https://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/cipointernet-internetopic.nsf/eng/wr01369.html doesn't look all that complicated, so looks like a case of filling in the form and paying a fee. It doesn't get approved straight away. Looks like the info I posted above was out of date and it is now much easier to get a trademark and keep it after a change in the law in 2014: http://www.inta.org/INTABulletin/Pages/ChangestoCanadasTrademarkLawExplained.aspx ...Under the new legislation, a person may file an application to register a trademark if he, she or it is (1) either using or proposes to use the trademark in Canada and (2) entitled to use the trademark in Canada; however, the application need not contain any declaration or statement regarding either requirement. Moreover, subject to an opposition proceeding where an applicant’s use of or proposal to use a trademark in Canada can be made an issue, an applicant will not be required to demonstrate or declare use of the trademark at any point prior to registration. Notably, the legislation does not require that a registrant prove use in order to enforce a registration; as a result, a registrant without any actual use of the trademark can nevertheless enforce its exclusive rights in Canada within the first three years of registration without any requirement to prove use...There are also predictions that the incidence of paper registrations (i.e., registration without use or any bona fide intention to use) blocking legitimate applications will rise substantially... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Well, at least it puts a timer on it - we know CPL has to be up and running by September 2019 for the trademark to hold, otherwise the thing has gone belly up I've heard different dates from a few different people off the record, but I expect all the cards to be on the table before Christmas at the latest. The biggest question in my mind is whether or not it is a 2018 or 2019 launch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gopherbashi Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 7 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: Well, at least it puts a timer on it - we know CPL has to be up and running by September 2019 for the trademark to hold, otherwise the thing has gone belly up I've heard different dates from a few different people off the record, but I expect all the cards to be on the table before Christmas at the latest. The biggest question in my mind is whether or not it is a 2018 or 2019 launch OH GOD IT'S ALWAYS TWO YEARS AWAY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 On 2016-10-13 at 3:02 PM, zen said: The primary function of L1O clubs is to develop the best talent possible. Teams in leagues above them (CPL/MLS) should compensate L1O teams through transfer/developmental fees for every player they sign. Those fees can be used to subsidize cost of running the L1O team including contractual obligations to players. In the long run the operation of the L1O clubs should be self sustaining and hopfully the team can eventually generate enough revenue to one day subsidize the pay-to-play structure. What I'm trying to get at is that this the ideal structure for the future. If the CPL doesn't leave the opportunity open for this to exist in the future, by implementing drafts from the onset thereby creating something similar to the OHL model, it would be very hard to change the status quo in the future. The draft model imo would be more likely to result in the L1O teams not being properly compensated, therefore reducing the net benefit in the entire system. This would be fantastic to see in the future, although I have very little idea what the "contract status" of L1O players are at present, if they even have any, for any player not attending NCAA/CIS. But for the future, this would be an amazing way to go, and would certainly contribute to a healthy pyramid/system over the next couple of decades. I agree, a draft of L1O players would be something I would love to see avoided, even if it may not be, as Homer argued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 23 hours ago, Dub Narcotic said: Great point. L10 has done well, but it was being discussed as an alternative to USL before it was launched. In reality, it's a slightly worse PDL that's best successes (which aren't nothing) are summer games for NCAA guys and free scouting for TFC2 to fill their roster. But you know what though, I mean, consider it is a provincial league, it really didn't make sense to me that L1O would be discussed as something that would be comparable to USL. It most definitely seems more comparable to a league level or slightly below PDL and NPSL, but really, for a provincial league, that's just fine. I don't know what OSL looks like above its U21 division, but L1O in its form is pretty much what Ontario needed. I know very little about the current CSL, but if it wasn't such a mess that it is now, that I could see as something more comparable to USL or PDL. As for the levels between a CPL and L1O/PLSQ, I think that a CPL2 would be more likely in the medium or long-term future than L1O/PLSQ bridging that gap, but it will be fun to see them grow otherwise and prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 16 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: OH GOD IT'S ALWAYS TWO YEARS AWAY Something something Sisyphus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 CBC taking note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 This snippet from the CBC Hamilton story is interesting: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/soccer-names-1.3805030 The Hamilton Tiger-Cats have exclusive rights to soccer at Tim Hortons field, but the team has a deadline of March 2018 to get a team on the field, as per its lease agreement at the stadium. What happens if they don't meet that deadline? Presumably, they lose their exclusive rights, but would be interesting to see what they originally signed up to on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 29 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: ... Glitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Complete Homer Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 32 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said: Sorry, no idea why it keeps quoting you Gopherbashi That is an interesting bit regarding stadium rights. While I doubt it would be a problem long term (it's not as if the city wants less use of their shiny new stadium), it would be an awkward road block they would probably want to avoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 16 minutes ago, Complete Homer said: CBC taking note Nice that CBC is taking note, and nice to see a fellow Fury fan at CSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironcub14 Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Really enjoyed all the discussion of the copyright law just now. Just wanted to say that I have benevolently been cyber-squatting on the @CanPremLeague and @CdnPremLeague twitter handles since last August, and I've tagged the TiCats and Bob Young's handles, I will let you know if I hear anything lol. For the record, this is the bios on the two handles, and I created those accounts last summer after I noticed that some businessmen in Toronto were looking at creating a "Canadian Premier League" cricket league. Hell no that we're losing our sick name to cricket, though i do give respect to the sport. "Account registered by @namujyoon for a future Canadian Premier League. Will happily hand over account for free to @CanadaSoccerEN @ticats #CanMNT #CPL #CanPL " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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