Canadian Premier League

[Complete Homer]

You make decent points @Ansem, but I'm with @masster and @shermanator on this one. 

MLS draws pretty poorly in Canada. If we can't get eurosnob converts to give MLS a try, we aren't getting CPL huge numbers off the bat either.

What can be sold is game day experience. Couple that with some synergistic marketing from CFL/NHL front offices, and I think you can get people interested to come out for a reasonably priced "spectacle" and hope a decent chunk get hooked. The TV deal, in my eyes, is all about getting on sportscenter highlights, a some side revenue, and ensuring we don't look minor league by streaming all the games.

I've heard off-the-record from some who prefer to stay out of the rumour mill that the TV deal is happening, but I have no idea if that is all the games or more of a "Game of the Week" type of scenario (EDIT: Considering that there would only be 4 games a week anyway, I suppose it wouldn't be much of a difference). I like the idea of a CBC game of the week (Similar to early TFC days), but I fully expect TSN on this instead

12 minutes ago, Pqhbv said:

No one likes my idea of having CFL-CPL home and away games tied to the same day but at different start/finish times eh?

I thought it was kind of neat. It also gets around some of the problems being put forward by others.

@Ansem   CFL on ESPN2 outperforms MLS for TV ratings in the US frequently. I think cooperation and collaboration with the CFL would be ideal. Competition with the MLS I'm all for.

I like it, and I think the CFL portion of the owners would like it. The CFL has been preaching the need to shift demographics, and I wouldn't be surprised if that factor wasn't huge in the CFL owners' buy-in. Back to back CFL/CPL games could bring more viewers for CPL and maybe bring some fresh blood to the CFL viewership. 

[Rheo]

In other news I can't wait for CPL fantasy game

[Ansem]

1 minute ago, Gopherbashi said:

Sure, but how many people in the east are going to be tuning in to see Highlanders v Foothills?  There's no reason why you can't have a CFL game broadcast in the east while a CPL game is on in the west. 

Because you want CPL to succeed where MLS failed.

You want Canadians and CPL fans to care about the whole league and it's players, not ONLY your home team. Why is MLS having terrible TV ratings? Because no one cares about the rest of the league outside of their own markets. When MLS Playoffs comes, their ratings are catastrophic, because no one cares nor knows the other teams and players.

You don't want to replicate that with CPL. I'm a HABS fan at heart but from time to time, I'll watch the Flames, Jets, Leafs, Sens, Canucks and Oilers. I'm certainly aware of the other teams in the NHL and it's players. That's where I feel MLS failed in their way to present themselves. Their cup, supporter's shields and league as a whole isn't embraced like other leagues are. Look at EPL, fans knows all the teams, players and will watch games that aren't about their home teams. Same for CFL to some extend.

If anything, the CFL model is the way to go. Wasn't what the tweets about CPL rumors implied? How much of a Canadian feel the league would have? Can't go MLS route for sure

[Complete Homer]

3 minutes ago, Rheo said:

In other news I can't wait for CPL fantasy game

Nah, having CanPL in football manager 

[Gopherbashi]

2 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Because you want CPL to succeed where MLS failed.

You want Canadians and CPL fans to care about the whole league and it's players, not ONLY your home team. Why is MLS having terrible TV ratings? Because no one cares about the rest of the league outside of their own markets. When MLS Playoffs comes, their ratings are catastrophic, because no one cares nor knows the other teams and players.

You don't want to replicate that with CPL. I'm a HABS fan at heart but from time to time, I'll watch the Flames, Jets, Leafs, Sens, Canucks and Oilers. I'm certainly aware of the other teams in the NHL and it's players. That's where I feel MLS failed in their way to present themselves. Their cup, supporter's shields and league as a whole isn't embraced like other leagues are. Look at EPL, fans knows all the teams, players and will watch games that aren't about their home teams. Same for CFL to some extend.

If anything, the CFL model is the way to go. Wasn't what the tweets about CPL rumors implied? How much of a Canadian feel the league would have? Can't go MLS route for sure

Look, sure it's not the ideal situation, but until we can get The CPL Network autobroadcast to everyone's Google Glass whether they like it or not, nothing's going to be.

Besides, it's not like you're going to get cross-country viewership with midweek games anyway.  Anyone on the west coast will still be at work while the east coast games are on, while anyone on the east coast will already be in bed before the west coast games end.

At least with the weekend games, you can get butts in seats, even if you're fighting for airtime.  NASL's attendance slump for midweek games is well-known, and I'm not sure the poor timezone-related viewership for midweek games will give any better result than the competition you face on weekends.

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, Gopherbashi said:

Look, sure it's not the ideal situation, but until we can get The CPL Network autobroadcast to everyone's Google Glass whether they like it or not, nothing's going to be.

Besides, it's not like you're going to get cross-country viewership with midweek games anyway.  Anyone on the west coast will still be at work while the east coast games are on, while anyone on the east coast will already be in bed before the west coast games end.

At least with the weekend games, you can get butts in seats, even if you're fighting for airtime.  NASL's attendance slump for midweek games is well-known, and I'm not sure the poor timezone-related viewership for midweek games will give any better result than the competition you face on weekends.

Last time I checked, Sunday was still the weekend and it's not like we have tons of stadiums out there either. Logistics alone dictates that CPL and CFL overlap won't happen. TSN wouldn't want that either anyways

[Kent]

29 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

The TV deal, in my eyes, is all about getting on sportscenter highlights, a some side revenue, and ensuring we don't look minor league by streaming all the games.

This. For me, the more games that are on TV, the better, but realistically I don't think it's going to be a revenue source in the early days. I imagine at best it will make very little money for the league, and at worst the league will be paying for it (actually, the worst would be no TV presence at all). Show me highlights on Sportscentre and I'll be happy. Couple that with a game a week and I'll be ecstatic. Make sure that for those highlights and game of the week you have as many people at the games cheering on as you can get. For me I'd like the games to be on weekends, when it's easiest to get to games.

[mianjo]

38 minutes ago, Rheo said:

In other news I can't wait for CPL fantasy game

I thought CPL was a fantasy.

[Complete Homer]

6 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Last time I checked, Sunday was still the weekend and it's not like we have tons of stadiums out there either. Logistics alone dictates that CPL and CFL overlap won't happen. TSN wouldn't want that either anyways

Sunday afternoon/night seem like a fair compromise (though definitely digging into post-game brews ;))

[TRM]

41 minutes ago, Rheo said:

In other news I can't wait for CPL fantasy game

You are playing it now.

[Ansem]

Also, a big "what not to do" if you want to be taken seriously as a top league...not organized pointless All-Star games and get your league's best get obliterated by a club's B Team. 

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/10/04/barcelona-invited-play-2017-mls-star-game/

Barcelona invited to play in 2017 MLS All-Star Game

SMH MLS...

[Complete Homer]

24 minutes ago, Ansem said:

Also, a big "what not to do" if you want to be taken seriously as a top league...not organized pointless All-Star games and get your league's best get obliterated by a club's B Team. 

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/10/04/barcelona-invited-play-2017-mls-star-game/

Barcelona invited to play in 2017 MLS All-Star Game

SMH MLS...

Always annoyed me. Might as well put out a big billboard that says "WE ARE INFERIOR TO EUROPEAN LEAGUES!"

 

[matty]

Does anyone else think saturday and sunday double headers with games at say 2 and 4:30 would work well?

[matty]

1 hour ago, Ansem said:

Also, a big "what not to do" if you want to be taken seriously as a top league...not organized pointless All-Star games and get your league's best get obliterated by a club's B Team. 

http://worldsoccertalk.com/2016/10/04/barcelona-invited-play-2017-mls-star-game/

Barcelona invited to play in 2017 MLS All-Star Game

SMH MLS...

I posted something about this earlier. While I don't want an All-Star game, I think having each CPL team playing a friendly is a must from year 1. It's a big money maker and will bring teams more attention from casual fans.

[Ansem]

CPL clubs having friendlies with Scottish Premiership, English Championship is fine but CPL elite team getting destroyed by a European Club screams of 2nd rated league.

Can't have that...

[Complete Homer]

58 minutes ago, Ansem said:

CPL clubs having friendlies with Scottish Premiership, English Championship is fine but CPL elite team getting destroyed by a European Club screams of 2nd rated league.

Can't have that...

Frankly, those teams would probably just destroy CPL teams a little less. You are right though, if CPL does have international friendlies as a marketing strategy, Scottish Premiership/Scottish Championship (outside Rangers/Celtic I imagine) would be a good spot to find clubs with decent name recognition that aren't so beyond CPL that a preseason tour could be considered and still draw a decent crowd

[matty]

2 hours ago, Ansem said:

CPL clubs having friendlies with Scottish Premiership, English Championship is fine but CPL elite team getting destroyed by a European Club screams of 2nd rated league.

Can't have that...

 

1 hour ago, Complete Homer said:

Frankly, those teams would probably just destroy CPL teams a little less. You are right though, if CPL does have international friendlies as a marketing strategy, Scottish Premiership/Scottish Championship (outside Rangers/Celtic I imagine) would be a good spot to find clubs with decent name recognition that aren't so beyond CPL that a preseason tour could be considered and still draw a decent crowd

Outside of Rangers and Celtic how would a SPL club draw? Would it actually be enough to justify bringing them in?

I think, while you risk getting bested badly (which likely wouldn't hurt CPL teams standings with fans in the early days, unless it's an all-star game), having teams from the likes of the EPL, La Liga and Serie A would generate a great deal more fanfare and money early on.

[Unnamed Trialist]

20 hours ago, Ansem said:

Because you want CPL to succeed where MLS failed.

You want Canadians and CPL fans to care about the whole league and it's players, not ONLY your home team. Why is MLS having terrible TV ratings? Because no one cares about the rest of the league outside of their own markets. When MLS Playoffs comes, their ratings are catastrophic, because no one cares nor knows the other teams and players.

Selective viewing is the norm, I think, not the exception. What you see in baseball, with massive presence of visiting team supporters across the league, is totally exceptional in North America (I went to a Mariner's game this summer vs. Boston and the presence was amazing, not like with the Jays but still, Red Sox has fans all over the league and many teams are the same). In the US, there is a bit of watch any Monday Night Football match, and NFL playoffs, that is true, and Americans will watch bowl games NCAA. So there are exceptions but the norm is to not care, US fans don't care about other franchises in hockey either, not even during playoffs. 

Just want to say I am a Barça fan and will hardly ever watch a match in Spanish league involving any but Barça, Madrid (unless winning by a lot so I turn off), and others who are doing well, At Madrid, Sevilla. I will also watch Espanyol I admit, and I watch 2nd and even lower division for Catalan teams. Except in Europe, I'll watch all of them. In fact, televison for football in Spain is overwhelming dominated by the big two, and even foreign viewing is the same. EPL has a wider tv base, with more teams and more balance, not just Man Utd anymore (used to be Man Utd and Liverpool in fact were the biggest tv drawers), but still, it still comes down to any match with the top 5-6 involved. A West Ham-Stoke FA Cup final attracts way less, in the UK and internationally.

So its not so strange for MLS fans in Canada to not care about a Dallas-Red Bulls MLS final. I think it is normal and so we should not be worrying about how to get someone in Montreal to watch two Canadian teams playing in Alberta. 

Especially at the start, with no history, tradition, lore, rivalry. When you accumlate history, it could change, like with the Jays-Rangers AL semi finals: lots of baseball fans in Milwaukee or Florida will watch, because there are all these great background stories that are going to make it interesting, in this case bad blood with the bat flip last year and Bautista getting punched earlier this year. You accumulate years of that kind of stuff, years of lore, decades, then you can talk about tv audiences for teams beyond the team you support.

[Complete Homer]

12 hours ago, matty said:

 

Outside of Rangers and Celtic how would a SPL club draw? Would it actually be enough to justify bringing them in?

I think, while you risk getting bested badly (which likely wouldn't hurt CPL teams standings with fans in the early days, unless it's an all-star game), having teams from the likes of the EPL, La Liga and Serie A would generate a great deal more fanfare and money early on.

I just don't think teams like the Rangers or Celtic (or any top tier club) would be interested. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though

[matty]

3 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I just don't think teams like the Rangers or Celtic (or any top tier club) would be interested. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though

I'm curious if bigger clubs would too. If the ownership is rich enough they should be able to bring over a Stoke City or a Hertha and Canada is a massive market should playing here might benefit their brands as well. The hold backs are whether they're playing on turf and the fear CPL clubs won't be a worth while warm up.

For the record, Rangers played the Fury a few years ago back during their struggles.

[Ansem]

16 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Selective viewing is the norm, I think, not the exception. What you see in baseball, with massive presence of visiting team supporters across the league, is totally exceptional in North America (I went to a Mariner's game this summer vs. Boston and the presence was amazing, not like with the Jays but still, Red Sox has fans all over the league and many teams are the same). In the US, there is a bit of watch any Monday Night Football match, and NFL playoffs, that is true, and Americans will watch bowl games NCAA. So there are exceptions but the norm is to not care, US fans don't care about other franchises in hockey either, not even during playoffs. 

So a few things. It's easier to travel around in the summer time then winter time when there's school etc... It's not because you don't see it as much in football and basketball that it makes it less true. TV ratings actually suggest otherwise for those sports.

I think that the exception is the NHL as Americans don't care as much about it (Despite what the NHL would have us believe) than Canadians. Outside of MLS and NHL (which I brand as exception in the United States) Americans knows and cares about their league, their teams first and foremost but others as well and they know the players and stats and everything about those leagues. So yes, hockey and MLS are the exception, my point was that CPL needs a different approach then MLS.

In a Canadian context, Canadians knows and follow most of all the other Canadian Clubs. That's what CPL needs to replicate and a CPL version of "hockey night in Canada" would help accomplish just that. Look how extensive the coverage of all Canadian clubs was presented to viewers coast to coast on TV for decades. That is something you see in basketball and NFL and MLB heavily but not so much on MLS and NHL American TV broadcast.

That's why I think (if done right) CPL could draw more then we think. Canadians loves to cheer for Canadians, in ways that I can't remember Canadian fans being so patriotic pre-2010 Vancouver games (outside of hockey of course). Now anything sport related including Canadians is closely followed in all sports and we're starting to expect more out of our athletes than ever before (outside of hockey).

A CPL version of "hockey night in Canada" on CBC is a perfect way to introduce the league to Canadians.

 

 

[Ansem]

17 minutes ago, Complete Homer said:

I just don't think teams like the Rangers or Celtic (or any top tier club) would be interested. I'd be happy to be proven wrong though

Why not Australia clubs?

[ted]

19 hours ago, matty said:

Does anyone else think saturday and sunday double headers with games at say 2 and 4:30 would work well?

Nope. Ridiculous idea that undermines the integrity of the league, alienates supporters and would make CPL games a joke to the media.

Why would you play two games in the same stadium? That would make three of the teams "visitors" and deprive one team of a home game. Why would you penalize the supporters by forcing supporters of both teams to travel to a game?

What kind of sideshow carnival do you think this should be?

 

 

[ted]

21 hours ago, Ansem said:

Because you want CPL to succeed where MLS failed.

I'm curious what you mean by that remark. How exactly has MLS "failed"?

[Unnamed Trialist]

13 minutes ago, Ansem said:

So a few things. It's easier to travel around in the summer time then winter time when there's school etc... It's not because you don't see it as much in football and basketball that it makes it less true. TV ratings actually suggest otherwise for those sports.

I think that the exception is the NHL as Americans don't care as much about it (Despite what the NHL would have us believe) than Canadians. Outside of MLS and NHL (which I brand as exception in the United States) Americans knows and cares about their league, their teams first and foremost but others as well and they know the players and stats and everything about those leagues. So yes, hockey and MLS are the exception, my point was that CPL needs a different approach then MLS.

In a Canadian context, Canadians knows and follow most of all the other Canadian Clubs. That's what CPL needs to replicate and a CPL version of "hockey night in Canada" would help accomplish just that. Look how extensive the coverage of all Canadian clubs was presented to viewers coast to coast on TV for decades. That is something you see in basketball and NFL and MLB heavily but not so much on MLS and NHL American TV broadcast.

That's why I think (if done right) CPL could draw more then we think. Canadians loves to cheer for Canadians, in ways that I can't remember Canadian fans being so patriotic pre-2010 Vancouver games (outside of hockey of course). Now anything sport related including Canadians is closely followed in all sports and we're starting to expect more out of our athletes than ever before (outside of hockey).

A CPL version of "hockey night in Canada" on CBC is a perfect way to introduce the league to Canadians.

All good ideas, but I think you are going to need a few years to get there. Frankly, just getting fans to go regularly to matches, to the tune of a league avg of 3500-5000, would be huge. I doubt TV would risk getting in on it from the start and would not pre-hype something that could be seen as a risk. 

CFL, well it is really old and has settled into part of the Canadian imagination. But even then, went to a Lions game this summer: old crowd, not a lot of new fans, still a lot of tradesmen and folks from out of Van, knowledgeable for sure, but still, a rather square bunch. The CFL demographic in BC anyways, which really shows since the city is being so gentrified and yuppified. But true, us Canadians will watch it, I do if I can. We are a long way from that for Canadian soccer.