NASL Commish Will Meet With CSA

[Sport Shaman]

I'll be interested from a TV fan standpoint how you guys enjoy the FCE vs. Impact game tonight. Cheers

The broadcast quality was good, it had lots of excitement but the ending kind of, ......... well it sucked.

[-Hammer-]

I am all for unbridled optimism but when you make a statement about Winnipeg and Hamilton that  "those will succeed from the gate" and attribute it to new facilities then I have to conclude that we are totally ignoring all the other factors that go into whether people attend professional soccer in Canada. If only it were that simple and could be assured with a new facility.

 

Even your four key factors don't support that statement.

 

1) Intimate soccer stadium - meaning there are supporter section at either end and the field is tight to the seats

 

This for sure will not be the case if the new facility also hosts a CFL team. The stadium will be cavernous and there will be long end zones so supporters sections behind the goal line will be a country mile away. Case in point is the Investors Group Field in Winnipeg which is a beautiful facility and really rocked with 28K in attendance when we were there last Thursday. End zone seats are a long way from the pitch and crowds of 2K to 6K would be lost in there. 

 

2) Quality Pitch - The state of the pitch has to allow for a technical game without lines

 

For the fall season both Ottawa and Edmonton will have achieved this. Ottawa with a new stadium (large but not necessarily "intimate") and FCE with new turf in the existing Clarke Park. Should attendance skyrocket then? It will help but it is not the magic cure.

 

3) Timely Content - Daily content on the website and highlights right after the game - make it easy for fans to consume content

 

This is helpful but not critical unless all of the supporters live in Mom's basement and experience the world only vicariously through an internet connection. They are not buying too many tickets on game day. Lots of sources exist for content; the NASL site, the11.ca, Canadian Soccer News and of course all the supporter groups websites. I think the team website is an afterthought at best. 

 

4) In-game experience - a festival atmosphere and great camera angles and knowledgeable/professional announcers

 

I agree with this statement but shiny new stadiums are no guarantee of that elusive "atmosphere".  Sometimes the older facilities have more character and that is why there is so much nostalgia for all the old NHL arenas and MLB parks that have been replaced over the years. Even in the WHL, I have been told that the older arenas in the smaller cities have hands down the most intense atmosphere and game day experience. As far as the broadcasts go, I have no complaints with the FCE on air crew and I know from last year when the games were briefly on The Score/SN 360 that local production values are reasonably good. Unfortunately the CSA streaming for the Ottawa/Edmonton V Cup games sucked and NASL live is also having growing pains. 

 

Anyways, I wish there were a magic wand that would guarantee attendance but I am afraid a shiny new stadium is only one piece of a complicated puzzle. 

 

Being from Hamilton, I think I'll post about this one.

 

1. This one is a mixed bag methinks in Hamilton. THF has the advantage of having patio's/marshalling areas on the ends of each side of the stadium instead of seatting. That can certainly help things out with flexibility and can certainly make adding temp seating of some kind in the endzones a possibility. That still being said, 2-6k in even a 20,000 seater would be cavernous.

 

2. Quality Pitch - Well it's going to be high end turf, but the lines are still an issue. Not sure how this pans out at THF

 

3. Timely Content - Bob Young also owns MRX, the company that does all the website work for the CFL and CHL and apparently now League 1 Ontario. Might be interesting to see how that pans out.

 

4. Atmosphere - It's hard to say, THF certainly being in the same spot as the rich historic Ivor Wynne is a two edged sword. Yes there is history, but you are also in a residential area without a lot of post game options. That being said though, the city is apparently giving the area a big overhaul and adding a lot more in the way of parks and such to the area.

[DigzTFC]

John McGrane's interview with Totera (John McGrane works with Bob Young - Hamilton's prospective owner):

 

(36 minute mark)

http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.php/show/red-card-august-19-2014/

 

- He's had talks with prospective owners

- No football lines on the pitch

- Manadated that turf will have paintable lines like Hamilton, Ottawa, Saskatchewan 

- Calgary and Edmonton need new turf

- TV production needs to be high

- Praises CFL for having high TV producion while competing with inferior product with NFL

- Need to have best practices for TV production from around the world brought to CL - "TV is everything"

- No ethnic names for teams - make sure it's professional and relevant to the Canadian market

- Affiliation with clubs globally is a possbility but no ethnic names - mentions Europe & South America

- There will be a salary cap - similar to MLS' current cap

- DP will not be a part of the picture from the beginning - run like a business not a "philanthropic adventure"

- Ownership will consist of individuals with high 8+ figure net worth - my example $80,000,000

- Expect 5-6 years of substantial losses.  10 year plan for turnaround.

- Canadian player pool is too shallow to have high Canadian starters quota

- 1 to 2 mandated canadian starters at first - needs roundtable discussion - increase over time

- Don't want to kill the product through player content rules.

[Trillium]

John McGrane's interview with Totera (John McGrane works with Bob Young's - Hamilton prospective owner):

 

(36 minute mark)

http://www.nextsportstar.com/index.php/show/red-card-august-19-2014/

 

- He's had talks with prospective owners

- No football lines on the pitch

- Manadated that turf will have paintable lines like Hamilton, Ottawa, Saskatchewan 

- Calgary and Edmonton need new turf

- TV production needs to be high

- Praises CFL for having high TV producion while competing with inferior product to NFL

- Need to have best practices for TV production from around the world brought to CL - "TV is everything"

- No ethnic names for teams - make sure it's professional and relevant to the Canadian market

- Affiliation with clubs globally is a possbility but no ethnic names - mentions Europe & South America

- There will be a salary cap - similar to MLS' current cap

- DP will not be a part of the picture from the beginning - run like a business not a "philanthropic adventure"

- Ownership will consist of individuals with high 8+ figure net worth - my example $80,000,000

- Expect 5-6 years of substantial losses.  10 year plan for turnaround.

- Canadian player pool is too shallow to have high Canadian starters quota

- 1 to 2 mandated canadian starters at first - needs roundtable discussion - increase over time

- Don't want to kill the product through player content rules.

 

 

With squads of 25 players I would think you would want 8 Canadian spots, 5 spots for USA citizens, and 12 Others.

 

The others of course could be USA Citizens or Canadians or from Mars.

 

With a 2.5 million salary cap you average out at 100k per player which is pretty good money, if you have minimum of 25k and no Max salary you can have a pretty strong starting eleven.

 

So 14 players at 25k = 350K leaving you 2.15 million / 11 or 195K per player, that gets you into MLS quality starting elevens easily.

 

At $20.00 a ticket average and 20 home games, gates need to be in range of 6 to 8 thousand to break even.

 

Ottawa is not far of the mark ( with probably a higher average ticket price ), and the marketing has been... less then stellar.

[An Observer]

I think this approach is sensible.  Mandate a couple of Canadians on the pitch at all time to start.  Create a good product.  Attract the fans.  And then increase the Canadian content as more players develop.  Its a smart approach.  I know some on this board will "cry" about having more Canadians on the pitch from the beginning but even having 12 or so starters in a fairly competitive league would increase our player pool from where it is now.  Moreover, it will give young Canadians something to shoot for.  Over time, I imagine if the league is successful, the growth of the player pool will be multiples of that. 

 

I like the fact that are realising that this will not happen over night and they 5-6 years of substantial losses is good.  They are looking at a 10 year plan.  This is similar to what MLS did when they started and it makes sense.

 

Glad to see that they are thinking big and not simply looking at playing to crowds of 2-3k.  Its also good to see they understand that this needs to look good on TV.  Hopefully, they can also concentrate on getting the game day experience right as well.

[ted]

Holy crap, somebody with money and some business sense has "got it"!   

[-Hammer-]

With squads of 25 players I would think you would want 8 Canadian spots, 5 spots for USA citizens, and 12 Others.

 

The others of course could be USA Citizens or Canadians or from Mars.

 

With a 2.5 million salary cap you average out at 100k per player which is pretty good money, if you have minimum of 25k and no Max salary you can have a pretty strong starting eleven.

 

So 14 players at 25k = 350K leaving you 2.15 million / 11 or 195K per player, that gets you into MLS quality starting elevens easily.

 

At $20.00 a ticket average and 20 home games, gates need to be in range of 6 to 8 thousand to break even.

 

Ottawa is not far of the mark ( with probably a higher average ticket price ), and the marketing has been... less then stellar.

 

All in all solid interview, good to hear where they are trying to go with this league and how they are trying to get there.

 

As far as the salary, that also assumes corporate sponsorship and a TSN TV deal (although likely a TSN2 or 3 deal) covers the other expenses, like travel and staff.

[Dub Narcotic]

Yes, they are asking a lot from any potential owners. $3M dollar salary cap with travel, coaching and gameday expenses on top of that? And that's assuming they have great stadium deals. I don't think there would be much capital appreciation on the franchises either, which has allowed some owners in the other major North American sports to cope with some operational losses. A lot will probably hinge on how interested TSN is. Given their dismal MLS ratings, they may see domestic soccer as a money pit rather than as an area of investment. Realistically, they would probably offer a few million for the television rights plus produce the telecasts on their time.

[maccaliam]

Yes, they are asking a lot from any potential owners. $3M dollar salary cap with travel, coaching and gameday expenses on top of that? And that's assuming they have great stadium deals. I don't think there would be much capital appreciation on the franchises either, which has allowed some owners in the other major North American sports to cope with some operational losses. A lot will probably hinge on how interested TSN is. Given their dismal MLS ratings, they may see domestic soccer as a money pit rather than as an area of investment. Realistically, they would probably offer a few million for the television rights plus produce the telecasts on their time.

I haven't had a chance to listen to the podcast yet. Have they actually said the league would have a $3 million salary cap?

[Gordon]

Trillium, why on earth would a Canadian league/division in NASL guarantee any spots for US citizens let alone 5? Are you suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?

[shermanator]

I'm realizing ever so slowly that the fact is there just aren't enough talented Canadian soccer players at the moment to create the ideal league we are all wishing for. A league with a majority of Canadian players most likely will not draw big crowds and therefore be a financial disaster from the get go.

 

Sounds like this league has the right idea; aim for sustainability first, then increase minutes for Canadians once the league is sustainable. So, most likely something in the range of 10-20 years after kicking off before we have a true "Div 1" or whatever they are aiming for with a majority of Canadian content.

[Cheeta]

^
I'd argue a domestic quota can be quite low, I think, and still afford development opportunities.  But the quota can't be meaningless either.  At first I could live with the starting 11 being foreigners knowing the bench five MUST all be Canadian.  They'll get their chance as subs.  

 

And the quota needs to be grown on a fixed schedule.  Nothing quite focuses the mind like an immediate need.  

 

Knowing you're going to HAVE to be able to field three more Canadians over the next 6 or 7 years would certainly encourage serious academic development.  Or nationalizing of foreign players.  Doesn't matter.  I leave it to the entrepreneurial spirit of franchise owners to find their means to that end.  

[ThiKu]

Agree. A reasonable quote at first. ....6 Canadians in the 18?? Then in year 3 have 3 in the XI plus 4-5 on bench and set increases to that on a set schedule prob max at 5 in the XI plus 5 subs by year .... 8-10?? This country has talent and our u20/17 teams have shown we have kids who simply need that gap between yet hand senior or yth and a level like MLS.

Must develop tho something like Generation Adidas. A group of top Canadian kids that play together throughout the off season as something of a B national youth team.

[Macksam]

Canadian NASL teams will have a salary cap while American NASL teams will not?

 

This league/division will be entertaining if we fill it up with players from Colombia and Uruguay.

[shamrock]

I'm all for a Division one in Canada, but you have to wonder what the exact benefit would be to do it under the NASL-flag? I mean, if you got 6-8 teams in Canada, what why would you still want to be part of NASL?

[Trillium]

Why five american spots...owners need a way to control salary, a larger pool of players at a NASL level exist in the States. Canadians at a NASL club should not be paid a premium by clubs based on birth, if you have too many such spots do you have a merit system?

The other option is of course fully open rosters, with no restrictions, that will not get you player development.

What would you mandate Gordon ...and why?

[Trillium]

Why five american spots...owners need a way to control salary, a larger pool of players at a NASL level exist in the States. Canadians at a NASL club should not be paid a premium by clubs based on birth, if you have too many such spots do you have a merit system?

The other option is of course fully open rosters, with no restrictions, that will not get you player development.

What would you mandate Gordon ...and why?

[Trillium]

I'm all for a Division one in Canada, but you have to wonder what the exact benefit would be to do it under the NASL-flag? I mean, if you got 6-8 teams in Canada, what why would you still want to be part of NASL?

[Trillium]

So you can playoff for a North American Championship. So you have a set of crossover games etc.

[Macksam]

I see where you're coming from Trillium but I'd rather just have 8 Canadian spots and 17 international spots if that's the case. No need to allocate 5 specifically for Americans and restrict yourself.

 

Also, to Shamrock, NASL is a decent brand and having cross over games will be good for the league.

[Gordon]

Why five american spots...owners need a way to control salary, a larger pool of players at a NASL level exist in the States. Canadians at a NASL club should not be paid a premium by clubs based on birth, if you have too many such spots do you have a merit system?

The other option is of course fully open rosters, with no restrictions, that will not get you player development.

What would you mandate Gordon ...and why?

Well I'd not give any kind of status to Americans. They would be just another international player.

Edit: churlishness born of a great bottle of scotch removed. Apologies.

[ted]

I'm all for a Division one in Canada, but you have to wonder what the exact benefit would be to do it under the NASL-flag? I mean, if you got 6-8 teams in Canada, what why would you still want to be part of NASL?

 

Because 6-8 teams is not enough to make a real competitive league. Playing the same teams multiple times in a season is a recipe for mediocrity on the field, disinterest in the stands and the perception of second-rate status by the media.

I also guarantee you that with few exceptions the attendence for league games vs NY Cosmos at any given Canadian team will be higher be higher than Victoria away at the same team (despite the fact that we will win the league that year.    )

 

In addition, while the NASL has not been the perfect in league operations and partnerships they do have more success than failure and a wealth of experience to abuse for our benefit.

[the Humberlands]

Having Canadian NASL teams play the American teams would definitely increase league interest (IMO) and give teams more experience. Besides, it's in my conspiratory belief that once the Canadian NASL is primed as an established league down the road, it will join the NASL to become one super second division, thus propelling for the next challenge of North American soccer: establishing a strong pro/reg system (with likely only 2 divs).

[baulderdash77]

Promotion/ Relegation is never going to happen.  Sports economics in North America don't support it.

 

I would guess that each team would have a Canadian content of 10 players per team mandated with 5 starters.  That leaves plenty of international content to fill out a roster but also gives a much needed mandate for Canadians to get first team minutes.

[-Hammer-]

Promotion/ Relegation is never going to happen.  Sports economics in North America don't support it.

 

I would guess that each team would have a Canadian content of 10 players per team mandated with 5 starters.  That leaves plenty of international content to fill out a roster but also gives a much needed mandate for Canadians to get first team minutes.

 

Yeah, the only way promotion/relegation happens is if MLS departs Canada and the current proposed NASL league keeps new franchise fees incredibly low, and then expands to the point where you have enough teams to make relegation/promotion practical, meaning around 20+ teams, and any TV deal that might be present, doesn't negatively effect the TV revenue each team brings it. Basically, not likely to happen in our lives.