TFC march to the 2014 Play Offs...

[Ivan]

Didn't think that was a penalty either (surprise, surprise), but I agree with you Shermanator, Hagglund is currently playing better.

[El Hombre]

Didn't think that was a penalty either (surprise, surprise), but I agree with you Shermanator, Hagglund is currently playing better.

Does Hagglund take no responsibility for the first goal?  He, Orr and Caldwell backed off Dwyer to give him so much space and for some reason Devos singled out Bekker as being at fault.  I really have not seen what either he or Lovitz have done that deserves the praise they are getting.  Hagglund's good in the air but he got was embarrassed in the Vancouver game.

[Gian-Luca]

Does Hagglund take no responsibility for the first goal?  He, Orr and Caldwell backed off Dwyer to give him so much space and for some reason Devos singled out Bekker as being at fault.  I really have not seen what either he or Lovitz have done that deserves the praise they are getting.  Hagglund's good in the air but he got was embarrassed in the Vancouver game.

I must have missed that (re: De Vos singling out Becker). To be honest I thought originally it was Orr & Caldwell who were at fault for allowing Dwyer to skip around them to begin with and then both failing to mark him. Orr admitted after the game he didn't play well & I assume he was in reference for that (and a poor header into the box from before) as he would have been in the best position since Dwyer stayed at the top of the box, which is closer to where the d-mid player (which he was on the day) should have been.  Didn't really think Hagglund was to blame, I think he's been good and would continue to start him over Henry on present form (even though that was never a penalty). Starting to think De Vos maybe is being harsher on the canucks on the field to prove he's not biased in favour of them or something, unless Bekker lost possession leading up to the 1st goal (which I don't recall but I don't think we saw was led up to it due to a replay) it is difficult to see why he would be singled out.

 

Another question to be asked is why Henry, after winning the ball centrally against the player he was marking, had to then trot out to the edge of the box to cover another player who then had the ball. ie. where was the left back or the left midfielder? I know they were down a man, but usually when teams go down a man they leave themselves short up top, not at the back.

[El Hombre]

Starting to think De Vos maybe is being harsher on the canucks on the field to prove he's not biased in favour of them or something, unless Bekker lost possession leading up to the 1st goal (which I don't recall but I don't think we saw was led up to it due to a replay) it is difficult to see why he would be singled out.

No, he didn't lose possession.  Devos's point was that there was too much space between Orr and Bekker and that's why Dwyer had so much space.  I couldn't understand that with the fact that Orr ran away from Dwyer, Caldwell was right in front of him, but backed off and Hagglund was pretty much in Bendik's lap.  Not sure why Bekker would be at fault, when all three of them were ball watching.

 

Maybe I'm oversensitive, but Devos seems really hard on the canucks.  Not sure why.  Maybe he has higher expectations, but it's annoying.

[Yohan]

No, he didn't lose possession.  Devos's point was that there was too much space between Orr and Bekker and that's why Dwyer had so much space.  I couldn't understand that with the fact that Orr ran away from Dwyer, Caldwell was right in front of him, but backed off and Hagglund was pretty much in Bendik's lap.  Not sure why Bekker would be at fault, when all three of them were ball watching.

 

Maybe I'm oversensitive, but Devos seems really hard on the canucks.  Not sure why.  Maybe he has higher expectations, but it's annoying.

more like, got punked like a bitch by Dwyer

 

[Gian-Luca]

Ok fair enough, but then another 3 players were also to blame for various things  after that (including Hagglund, not Orr who got skipped around).....still seems strange to pick on the one player when another 3 errors occured after that, the  biggest one being nobody in the central defense or d-mid bothering to mark the lone striker (unless it is suggested that the attacking midfielder is supposed to be the one who marks the lone striker)

[BearcatSA]

Maybe I'm oversensitive, but Devos seems really hard on the canucks.  Not sure why.  Maybe he has higher expectations, but it's annoying.

 

I have been listening to more of the commentary than usual this season but I would say that he's always pretty quick to praise Osorio, fwiw.

 

Regardless of the discussion about whom to throw under the bus for the first goal, I thought Bekker was well off of the pace in this game.  Both he and Rey earned their early substitutions.

 

As an aside, I always find it interesting that TFC reject Jake Peterson is a regular squad member for this team.  And far less maligned TFC castoff Paulo Nagamura was bossing the midfield, wearing the captain's armband for this one.  Go figure.

[Dub Narcotic]

I don't think SKC fans rate Peterson very highly.

[Keegan]

Why when we went down a man did we play a 4-4-1 with Defoe as the lone striker?  Look I get that Defoe is one of the best players in this league but it feels like Nelsen is a 12 year old coach.. "give it to Defoe and just let him run it through the team guys!".  And then we lump the ball up field to Defoe all match for headers he is never going to win, and even if he did there was no support.. by the 80th minute Defoe was a non factor because he was so tired as SKC intelligently made him run around their backline chasing the ball.  Luke Moore was on the pitch Ryan, remember? Why not have Defoe play on the right and run at players instead of playing with his back to goal?  As if SKC was going to give him time to turn on the ball and run at them in a lone striker role. 

 

Also for Henry, not a penalty but an idiotic play nonetheless.  Henry clearly sees that the player is going to run into him so he makes defensive contact and knocks the player down instead of turning to look at the ball and letting the player run into him and thus falling himself.  Henry has too much of this "tough guy image" he has to maintain, he has too much pride to let someone knock him down and he tries to make big plays when he gets frustrated by taking guys out.  The ref has a split decision to make and if he sees two players run head on into each other and one falls that gives him the opportunity to call a PK.  There is no way Henry can be considered for Canada at this point, he is a Central American nightmare waiting to happen that will haunt us for 4 years.  Shame because I think he's Canada's most promising defender.  Hopefully a stint with Floro and the U23s will settle him down. 

[BearcatSA]

I don't think SKC fans rate Peterson very highly.

 

Who cares.  Vermes has made him a squad contributor or he would have ditched him a long while ago.

[Gian-Luca]

Hopefully not tempting fate by posting this, but the march to a playoff spot is looking pretty good at the moment. TFC in a playoff position after most teams have played a third of the season - I can't remember if that has ever been case, maybe in 2009? The team immediately ahead of them in the standings only has a 1 point lead on them, and TFC has 4 games in hand on them. The team is 2 wins and 1 draw in the league with Bradley away on World Cup duty, also encouraging.

[El Hombre]

Some of the things I learned from Devos' comments during this week's TFC broadcast:

 

1) Hagglund and Lovitz were great draft picks.  I thought Lovitz's numerous giveaways, some leading to odd-man breaks by Columbus, would've counted against him, but I guess I'm missing something.

2) Bloom is the kind of player that successful MLS teams need.

3) It was Bekker's poor slide tackle technique that was to blame for him getting stomped in the second half and not the Columbus player who's challenge was late and reckless.

4) Warner and Bradley are the first choice central mid pairing for TFC.  I guess when the strategy consists of "Give Defoe the ball" you don't really need all that much creativity.

 

I learn so much.

[jonovision]

Some of the things I learned from Devos' comments during this week's TFC broadcast:

 

1) Hagglund and Lovitz were great draft picks.  I thought Lovitz's numerous giveaways, some leading to odd-man breaks by Columbus, would've counted against him, but I guess I'm missing something.

2) Bloom is the kind of player that successful MLS teams need.

3) It was Bekker's poor slide tackle technique that was to blame for him getting stomped in the second half and not the Columbus player who's challenge was late and reckless.

4) Warner and Bradley are the first choice central mid pairing for TFC.  I guess when the strategy consists of "Give Defoe the ball" you don't really need all that much creativity.

 

I learn so much.

 

Kind of shocked by most of these.

 

Lovitz and Hagglund and particularly Bloom have been beneficiaries of low expectations this season. In contrast, TFC fans were likely expecting better from Henry, given the glowing reports from his time at West Ham. Henry is not as bad as people are saying he is now, and it is unlikely that Hagglund and Bloom and Lovitz are as good as their good moments over a small sample. Remember also that all three are older than Doneil.

 

Bradley has had a few outstanding games but in others was simply an above-average MLS midfielder. If Nelsen thinks Warner with Bradley gives them enough offense and creativity he might be in for a surprise.

 

To me, TFC looks like they're a Defoe injury away from being merely average, even when Bradley is around, or even if Gilberto pops in a goal or two.

[BearcatSA]

Lovitz and Hagglund and particularly Bloom have been beneficiaries of low expectations this season. In contrast, TFC fans were likely expecting better from Henry, given the glowing reports from his time at West Ham. Henry is not as bad as people are saying he is now, and it is unlikely that Hagglund and Bloom and Lovitz are as good as their good moments over a small sample. Remember also that all three are older than Doneil.

 

 

Lovitz and Hagglund are about a year older, right?  The one thing that Henry has on those two is considerably more pro minutes and starts.  As you note regarding the small sample, you have to see how these guy looks over a much longer time period.  There's lots to like about Henry and I was really happy to see him snag the winner.

 

As for Bekker and the challenge, well, I'm still left wondering how long he would have lasted at Crystal Palace in an even more physical competitive environment.

[Michael Crampton]

To me, TFC looks like they're a Defoe injury away from being merely average,

 

For TFC, "being merely average" would be a monumental achievement.

[Dub Narcotic]

So, this thread is about desperately tearing down TFC's American players and pumping the tires of the Canadian ones? Lovitz was a great find in the second round and Hagglund looks the better prospect between he and Henry at this point. Now, Lovitz should not really be starting but that's great depth from a low draft pick and left-footed as well with lots of room to improve. 

 

An interesting move for Toronto might be trying to get Omar Salgado on the cheap from Vancouver if they sign another striker. He is the type of attacking winger/striker depth they really need.

[El Hombre]

So, this thread is about desperately tearing down TFC's American players and pumping the tires of the Canadian ones?

No.  It's about calling a spade, a spade and how Devos seems to be far more critical of the Canadian players than anyone else on the pitch.  Take a look at the first goal against.  He calls out Bekker for being too aggressive (in their half) and Henry for getting nutmegged just inside the TFC half.  No mention about how Hagglund got turned inside out.  I have no problem with commentators being critical.  It's when they start picking and choosing which players to be critical of.  I'm still waiting for someone in the media to mention Morrow's atrocious header down to the Revs' player's foot in the box when they start showing the highlight reel of Henry's penalty kick infractions.

 

Lovitz was a great find in the second round and Hagglund looks the better prospect between he and Henry at this point. Now, Lovitz should not really be starting but that's great depth from a low draft pick and left-footed as well with lots of room to improve.

 

You have got to be kidding.  Lovitz gave the ball away time after time, a couple of times that led to Columbus moving up the field with extra attackers.  Hagglund is decent in the air and has done alright, but gets burned pretty badly a couple times a game.  Remember, Bekker is a '90, Lovitz is a '91, Hagglund is a '92 and Henry is a '93.  It's really hard to separate them with regards to potential.  The only way you could possibly think that Hagglund is a better prospect than Henry is because you've been hearing about Henry for the last couple years and you had absolutely no expectations of Hagglund.  I'm not sure what you would've seen on the pitch that would actually lead to that assessment.

 

The issue is that there is already a preconceived notion out there, particularly among Canadians, that Canadians are generally not good at soccer.  Continuing to highlight the failures of Canadian players on broadcasts doesn't help that when no one else is being called out.  If you are going to wax poetic about how wasteful Bekker's free kick was, maybe also mention that Jackson's kick directly into the wall (from a better position) was maybe also not the best either.  Just be even.  No one's asking for kid gloves.

[Ivan]

Both Hagglund and Lovitz look like great picks given their respective draft positions.  Yes, Lovitz had a rough game on Saturday, but he sure looks like he could become serviceable.  Hagglund is a physical specimen with a calm, cool head.  However, he is no where near the athlete that Henry is.  Henry's upside is much higher, if he can ever learn to tone the physicality down a bit.  Regardless, they look like a great future centre back tandem. 

[BuzzAndSting]

Didn't Lovits just run the ball across the end line on an odd man break? I haven't seen anything from him that I would rate other than maybe speed.

[Redcoatsforever]

Didn't Lovits just run the ball across the end line on an odd man break? I haven't seen anything from him that I would rate other than maybe speed.

 

Yeah, he has decent footwork and passing for attacking play, too, but he's made a few rookie errors. (which, him being a rookie is expected) On that play I think he either got too excited about possibly scoring or the growing roar of the crowd threw him off and he just took one really heavy touch.

[Ivan]

^ He admitted after the game that he had a few touches he wanted back.  Sounds like a pretty level-headed kid. 

[Dub Narcotic]

Didn't Lovits just run the ball across the end line on an odd man break? I haven't seen anything from him that I would rate other than maybe speed.

 

He doesn't seem particularly fast to me. The first game he came in as a sub at 55' he led all players in the game in successful dribbles by the end. He's already the second-best free kick taker on the team, behind Bradley. I don't know how you can't rate those things, especially for a guy playing his first few games at this level. He was dominant at the USL level as well.

[Keegan]

He doesn't seem particularly fast to me. The first game he came in as a sub at 55' he led all players in the game in successful dribbles by the end. He's already the second-best free kick taker on the team, behind Bradley. I don't know how you can't rate those things, especially for a guy playing his first few games at this level. He was dominant at the USL level as well.

 

Second best free kick taker on the team?!  Based on what?  A chip from the edge of the 18 into the 6 yard box that a few members on this board could have taken?

 

Dominant at the USL level?  I guess by his dominant standards at the USL level we should be calling up Jordan Hamilton at any moment to start alongside Defoe.

[narduch]

Lovitz had a stinker last night. He was subbed off very early in the 2nd half. He is a prospect though, just like Hagglund.

 

But to call him the 2nd best free kick taker on the team is a joke.

 

Bekker is actually a decent free kick taker (its pretty much the only thing he does well). He also the teams #1 scapegoat. Even when other players play way worse than him.

[BearcatSA]

Lovitz had a stinker last night. He was subbed off very early in the 2nd half. He is a prospect though, just like Hagglund.

 

But to call him the 2nd best free kick taker on the team is a joke.

 

Bekker is actually a decent free kick taker (its pretty much the only thing he does well). He also the teams #1 scapegoat. Even when other players play way worse than him.

 

Ahead of Jeremy Hall?