Gian-Luca Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I just did a terribly unscientific study and I think you are right. When Bradley and Warner start together, TFC have 3 losses and 2 draws. Here are some other tidbits for each player for games where they start in central midfield: Bradley - 3 wins, 6 losses and 2 draws, 12 goals for and 18 against Warner - 2 wins, 3 losses and 5 draws, 15 goals for and 17 against Osorio - 5 wins and 2 draws, 15 goals for and 8 against Bekker - 4 wins, 3 losses and 1 draw, 12 goals for and 9 against The most successful partnerships (from the start of the game): Bradley/Osorio - 6 points Bekker/Osorio - 6 points Warner/Osorio - 5 points Warner/Bekker - 4 points Bradley/Bekker - 3 points Bradley/Warner - 2 points I think you should copy & paste this good work of yours here and send it out to various journalists to question Nelsen over. Is he really going to argue that this is all a huge coincidence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I think you should copy & paste this good work of yours here and send it out to various journalists to question Nelsen over. Is he really going to argue that this is all a huge coincidence? All the journalists are pro-Bradley. I haven't seen any criticism of his play and Larson is in love with him. And don't even get me started on how little they critique Nelsen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sébastien Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Despite never having been a fan of Warner, both now and previously with Montreal, I do think there is a configuration of TFC's midfield where Warner partners Bradley in the middle that can work. The problem is as much with having both Jackson and Oduro on the flanks. Neither is capable of offering the least defensive resistance and are far too often caught up the pitch. That forces both Warner and Bradley to do extra defending and they find themselves too often in each other's way, leaving huge gaps in the centre of the park. With INF gone, though, who else do they start on the wing? Osorio is not a wide player, Orr is not really made for that spot either. Other options? Agreed. Frankly, with the roster of this team, I would tend to think a 4-3-3 formation would be more effective than the current 4-4-2. Something like: Bendik Bloom-Caldwell-Henry-Morrow Osorio-Bradley-Jackson Oduro-Defoe-Moore - The only playmaking Oduro can really do consistently is sprint down the line and cross, which this still permits him to do. - Defoe would have much more playmaking options as a central attacker. - Bradley could still go box-to-box and would be THE boss of the midfield, which he doesn't seem to be anymore, and it seems to hurt him. - Osorio would have more space to come inside than playing as a winger. - Jackson could still create the havoc he always does. As for Warner, he can start over either Bradley or Osorio depending on the opposition, fatigue, etc., as well as be a good defensive sub later in the game. Now, this is where my "rookie-ness" to being a soccer supporter really shows: I have no idea if coaches do change tactics midway through a season, if it's feasible, or if it's too much a pain to teach and learn a new system in the middle of a season. Also, I might be completely wrong about the 4-3-3, but it just seems to me that it would fit the current roster better than the 4-4-2 does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Agreed. Frankly, with the roster of this team, I would tend to think a 4-3-3 formation would be more effective than the current 4-4-2. Something like: Bendik Bloom-Caldwell-Henry-Morrow Osorio-Bradley-Jackson Oduro-Defoe-Moore - The only playmaking Oduro can really do consistently is sprint down the line and cross, which this still permits him to do. - Defoe would have much more playmaking options as a central attacker. - Bradley could still go box-to-box and would be THE boss of the midfield, which he doesn't seem to be anymore, and it seems to hurt him. - Osorio would have more space to come inside than playing as a winger. - Jackson could still create the havoc he always does. As for Warner, he can start over either Bradley or Osorio depending on the opposition, fatigue, etc., as well as be a good defensive sub later in the game. Now, this is where my "rookie-ness" to being a soccer supporter really shows: I have no idea if coaches do change tactics midway through a season, if it's feasible, or if it's too much a pain to teach and learn a new system in the middle of a season. Also, I might be completely wrong about the 4-3-3, but it just seems to me that it would fit the current roster better than the 4-4-2 does. My concerns with your proposed formation: Jackson - I don't think he has the attributes to play in a 3 man midfield. His strength is taking the bull by the horns so to speak and just trying shit. He's never afraid to take someone on, which is great. However, I can picture him getting caught which is why I just can't envision him being effective in that system. He can make up for mistakes out on the flank but ultimately he'd have to pinch infield and that makes me nervous. Defoe - I don't know whether he would be more or less effective as the CF of a front 3, but my gut says he'd be less effective. I think Defoe is much like Simeon Jackson (obviously much better), since both players have good movement and pace. Therefore you get the most out of them when they have space to exploit. Playing Defoe in the CF role takes away that space. Putting him on the wing of that front 3 and I think you risk him becoming isolated. That is why I think he is best paired up top with one other player. Things are less crowded and we can get the best out of his movement. If I had to set up this team, I think I would go with: Bloom----Henry----Cadwell----Morrow Oduro----Bradley---Osorio----Jackson -----------Defoe---Moore/Gilberto------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 So you got a win with Warner & Bradley on the midfield. See you just had to show how bad the stats were and then magic starts happening Welcome to 6th place in the west ... I mean 3rd place in the east. Keep it going and hopefully to see you in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 So you got a win with Warner & Bradley on the midfield. See you just had to show how bad the stats were and then magic starts happening Welcome to 6th place in the west ... I mean 3rd place in the east. Keep it going and hopefully to see you in the playoffs. Probably more to do with playing against the worst team in the league, and one that didn't give much of an effort today. I mean, check out the effort on Camara on that 2nd TFC goal, incredible that he's the one speaking out on a lack of effort from his team after the game...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmcmurph Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Probably more to do with playing against the worst team in the league, and one that didn't give much of an effort today. I mean, check out the effort on Camara on that 2nd TFC goal, incredible that he's the one speaking out on a lack of effort from his team after the game...... Hey we got a draw against them, at home, with a well rested team .... Don't think of it any other way than 3 points in the bag. You did what you should do, you took max points off a weaker team. Painfully we didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub Narcotic Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 This Toronto team is light years ahead of any previous incarnation. Passing triangles, intelligent midfield play, dangerous wingers and actual depth. Maybe not a top team yet but definitely playoff-calibre and with a bright future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Why no Defoe against Montreal yesterday? And why do we find out only 10 minutes before kick-off? I felt like TFC, MLS and Saputo were purposefully pulling the wool over our eyes today (and also for the All-Star game) Molinaro not doing his job, or did we all know that Defoe was injured. Bradley was a machine today - though Osorio worked well also with Bradley. Defence didn't put in a wrong foot all game, albeit against lowly competition. Gilberto has moments, but is lazy and a diver - much too much like the typical Brazilians I play with. Also, not unlike IMFC's Felipe lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Why no Defoe against Montreal yesterday? And why do we find out only 10 minutes before kick-off? I felt like TFC, MLS and Saputo were purposefully pulling the wool over our eyes today (and also for the All-Star game) Defoe got injured in training, in Montreal. He was still on the TFC bench last night, although not on the 18-man roster. And he's out of the All-Star Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 Possible sports hernia. Lets hope it is not too bad or he could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baulderdash77 Posted August 3, 2014 Share Posted August 3, 2014 My concerns with your proposed formation: Jackson - I don't think he has the attributes to play in a 3 man midfield. His strength is taking the bull by the horns so to speak and just trying shit. He's never afraid to take someone on, which is great. However, I can picture him getting caught which is why I just can't envision him being effective in that system. He can make up for mistakes out on the flank but ultimately he'd have to pinch infield and that makes me nervous. Defoe - I don't know whether he would be more or less effective as the CF of a front 3, but my gut says he'd be less effective. I think Defoe is much like Simeon Jackson (obviously much better), since both players have good movement and pace. Therefore you get the most out of them when they have space to exploit. Playing Defoe in the CF role takes away that space. Putting him on the wing of that front 3 and I think you risk him becoming isolated. That is why I think he is best paired up top with one other player. Things are less crowded and we can get the best out of his movement. If I had to set up this team, I think I would go with: Bloom----Henry----Cadwell----Morrow Oduro----Bradley---Osorio----Jackson -----------Defoe---Moore/Gilberto------ I more or less agree with everything you said above; at least as it pertains to the midfield & strikers. The team is constructed as properly as a 4-4-2 team and they don't really have the personnel to run a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 really. There's nothing wrong with a well designed 4-4-2. If they were ever going to go with a 4-3-3 I actually think that the best match we have on the roster would be to drop Oduro & Jackson from the starting XI and put in Bekker as a recessed DM with Osorio with Bradley as CM. Then a Defoe, Gilberto & Moore forward line would work well with Gilberto in the center of that formation. That's probably the best match we have and it's why we shouldn't go 4-3-3. Bloom----Henry----Cadwell----Morrow ------------Bradley--------Osorio------------ --------------------Bradley--------------------- --------Defoe-------------------Moore-------- -------------------Gilberto---------------------- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Injury in Montreal - okay. Fine. Just surprised that it wasn't reported by anyone. But I guess it was P.K. day in Montreal in the media. Let's hope nothing serious for Defoe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msilverstein47 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 http://www.cbc.ca/sports/soccer/toronto-fc-manager-ryan-nelsen-fined-for-criticizing-referee-1.2729694?cmp=rss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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