Loss of the National Football Stadium

[TFC07]

As a former marketing grad I'd like to see some proof of that. Anything I've seen has the CFL skewing much younger. I won't speak for the whacked Toronto area where nobody can seem to find out where these viewers are coming from. But as a comparison, I do know the cross Canada basketball and soccer numbers aren't even good for the GTA let alone the ROC.

You can't argue the numbers, people want to portray the CFL as just 55 year old Saskatchewanians and it ain't so. It's also not about a prime demo of the 18-35 year old male. You have secondary and tertiary markets as well to look at.

Edit: Just looked at some basketball numbers, much better lately.

Last World Cup final had 5.8 million viewers while EPL games despite being played during morning time in Canada gets between 150,000-250,000 which is just as good or better than MLS ratings on prime time. However I like said before, a lot of people (especially younger generation) don't watch TV as much as older generation and usually watch their content online and mobile devices. So judging on TV ratings alone can be misleading and most corporations know that.

Basketball side of things, Raptors TV ratings have been increasing while their online presence has been huge.

On TSN, Raptors games are averaging 240,000 viewers — up 64 per cent since the Gay trade. The four games in January are averaging 268,000, and for the season to date the average is 197,000, which is up 17 per cent from last year. TSN is on pace for the highest Raptors regular season average since 2009-10 — when they missed the playoffs by one game.On Sportsnet, the gains are much more modest, but they have improved. Since the trade, viewership is up to 148,000, up 2 per cent from the pre-trade period.

Raptors online quote:

While Raptors brass is pleased with the bump in TV numbers, there’s also giddiness about some web numbers coming from the league head office. Worldwide interest in the team is ballooning, with Raptors-related videos on NBA.com getting more hits from people on desktop computers than any other team — 61 per cent more than second-place Houston. The Raptors are also second on mobile, which is a splashy 848 per cent growth over last year.

Source: http://www.thestar.com/sports/2014/01/18/raptors_hot_streak_brings_a_spike_in_tv_ratings_mudhar.html

[maccaliam]

I don't think upgrades of bmo are necessary (though the roof would be nice considering how bad the weather has been at some of the Tfc and Canada games I've been to), so that's why Imo Tfc don't need the Argos or any more public money.

[TFC07]

I don't think upgrades of bmo are necessary (though the roof would be nice considering how bad the weather has been at some of the Tfc and Canada games I've been to), so that's why Imo Tfc don't need the Argos or any more public money.

There's two things going on here:

1. Rebuilding BMO field has more to do with hosting winter classic games for Maple Leafs at BMO field (this is why MLSE want to start renovating BMO field right now)

2. Saving Argos as a condition to protect NFL on legal side of things so one day they (MLSE plus other parties) can bring a NFL team to Toronto without hurting Argos and CFL in general.

Argos and TFC are just pawns and small time players for MLSE when you look at bigger picture here.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/19/mlses_leiweke_taxpayers_would_be_paid_back_for_bmo_field_expansion.html

The project may be more imminent than previously understood. Government officials, Leiweke said, have asked if the first phase could be completed in time for the Pan Ams. He said that is possible only if construction begins this summer. City council would have to approve the project within months.

I really hope they don't rush things. This is a big risk for the Pan-Am games. I hope more cautious people prevail and nothing gets decided until at least after summer 2015.

[-Hammer-]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/19/mlses_leiweke_taxpayers_would_be_paid_back_for_bmo_field_expansion.html

I really hope they don't rush things. This is a big risk for the Pan-Am games. I hope more cautious people prevail and nothing gets decided until at least after summer 2015.

I hope that this isn't a power play by MLSE to move soccer out of Tim Horton's Field for the Pan Ams.

[TFC07]

I hope that this isn't a power play by MLSE to move soccer out of Tim Horton's Field for the Pan Ams.

No, it's for rugby even though it would have made more sense to have BMO field host soccer games instead of Tim Horton's Field.

Power play move is get BMO field up to standards for Maple Leafs to host winter classic on their 100th anniversary in 2017. BMO field needs to be fixed and completely rebuilt by then. So they need to start now!

First phase is to build more seats (starting this summer or fall), then second phase will be putting a roof on BMO field. Of course there will other construction (like building more suites, washrooms) going on during those phases.

[Interpol]

No way !

every country has a so called National Stadium !

BMO was paid by us taxpayers for 2007 U20 World Cup. This is not MLSE property as they often forget ! someone give them sweet lease and they make huge money on it ! try to rent it from them ...it is impossible !

Bigger ? yes

roof ? yes

more tax money ? NO !

Argos or Rugby ? NO !

[Blackdude]

The CSA just has one move to do: say that their new national soccer stadium is East of the Ottawa River. And there, we have a national soccer stadium.

[Trillium]

So it seems from the Star article its a discussion over the City of Toronto fronting the money to MLSE to do the reno with MLSE paying back over some period .... essentially MLSE is asking for a mortgage from the City of Toronto tax payers probably at 1% rate, with the City of Toronto using its bond rating to borrow the funds.

If it all falls out the way MLSE wants it will be rip off of the Toronto tax payers and a detrimental development for Canadian soccer.

You can bet the lines in the CSA plan to bid for the FIFA World Cup ... will be used to help convince the good folks on Toronto Council.

[RS]

No way !

every country has a so called National Stadium !

BMO was paid by us taxpayers for 2007 U20 World Cup. This is not MLSE property as they often forget ! someone give them sweet lease and they make huge money on it ! try to rent it from them ...it is impossible !

Bigger ? yes

roof ? yes

more tax money ? NO !

Argos or Rugby ? NO !

There have already been several rugby matches at the stadium, and Rugby Canada (who presumably rented the stadium from MLSE) is already selling tickets for another match vs. Scotland in June.

The pitch is fine despite a handful of rugby games being held every year for the past 2-3 years. I'm not convinced that it would hold up with the addition of a full CFL schedule, though.

[Yohan]

Argo Blue is going to look so terrible with TFC red all over BMO Field

[Joe MacCarthy]

Argo Blue is going to look so terrible with TFC red all over BMO Field

I would think that if MLSE bought the Argos (and that would be the only reason for the Argos to be there) the renovations would ensure the teams get equal billing and an appropriate colour scheme worked out.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Argonauts Could Soon Be Sold To MLSE or Tanenbaum

David Naylor TSN 1/28/2014

The Toronto Argonauts could be sold within a matter of weeks, either to Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment or its chairman, Larry Tanenbaum, according to multiple sources.

Talks between David Braley and MLSE have heated up in recent months to the point that the MLSE board, which includes Tanenbaum as well as representatives from Bell and Rogers, was asked to vote during December on acquiring the CFL team.

While the board could not agree on the matter, there remains the possibility that MLSE could revisit buying the team or that Tanenbaum himself may purchase it.

An Argo purchase by MLSE or Tanenbaum makes potential sense from both ends of the deal.

From the Argos perspective, the team is in desperate need of a new practice facility, having been told by the University of Toronto that its Mississauga campus can no longer house the football team. With three months until the opening of CFL training camps, a sale would presumably open the door to the Argos taking up residence at the KIA Training Ground, the practice home of Toronto FC which includes three full-size grass fields, four artificial fields and a 40,000 square foot field house in Downsview.

Being sold to Tanenbaum or MLSE would make the Argos part of the plan for a redesigned BMO Field, thus solving their need to build a new home from scratch when they vacate Rogers Centre after the 2017 season.

MLSE president and CEO Tim Lieweke has stated several times in recent months that the Argos could factor into future plans at BMO, a position in stark contrast to that of his predecessors, who saw the facility as soccer-only.

From the perspective of Tanenbaum or MLSE, owning the Argos could be a chip towards the goal of securing a National Football League team, based on the NFL wanting assurance that moving a team to Toronto would not kill the Argos or the CFL.

"(Tanenbaum) has always had an affection for them," said former MLSE president and CEO Richard Peddie. "Everything I'm hearing is that that the NFL is telling them that if you want an NFL team, you better make sure the Argos are okay. I don't think it's out of the realm that he may do it."

As well, having the Argos as a second tenant at BMO Field could help MLSE's drive to secure investment from government to redevelop the stadium, which is a publicly-owned facility operated by MLSE exclusively for soccer at this time.

"I've got to believe that they're thinking of the Argos in that facility," said Peddie. "Can you design a stadium with moveable sections and not lose the intimacy? Yes, you probably can."

The Argonauts are currently owned by Hamilton businessman David Braley, who has been exploring options for a new stadium in the Greater Toronto Area in recent months.

Though the Argonauts have consistently lost money at Rogers Centre, it is believed their business model could continue to improve with the right arrangement at BMO, combined with increased revenues from the CFL's new television deal which kicks in this season.

This isn't the first time MLSE has looked at a potential Argo purchase. The Argos had been offered up to MLSE when the team was owned by David Cynamon and Howard Sololowski, who sold to David Braley in February of 2010.

However, the ownership of MLSE and many of the dynamics within the city's professional sports scene have changed since those days, most notably with Lieweke's arrival and the notion of trying to land an NFL team.

In November, reports surfaced of Tanenbaum, Lieweke and rock star Jon Bon Jovi teaming up to pursue a future relocation of the Buffalo Bills to Toronto.

[TFC07]

So this story pretty much confirms that MLSE is looking to bring NFL to Toronto. Not good news for Argos despite having a new "home" and owners.

[Joe MacCarthy]

So this story pretty much confirms that MLSE is looking to bring NFL to Toronto. Not good news for Argos despite having a new "home" and owners.

Tannenbaum has been looking to bring the NFL to T.O for 30 years, doesn't mean a thing. Goodells roots are in NY state, can't see the Bills going anywhere. I see this as preparation for a very long wait for something that may never happen.

The Argos dying won't help TFC.

[ag futbol]

So this story pretty much confirms that MLSE is looking to bring NFL to Toronto. Not good news for Argos despite having a new "home" and owners.

NFL requires a stadium a whole different level. Something in the neighborhood of a billion dollars and far beyond what BMO is today or will be after the renovation.

In my eyes, this move isn't about the NFL at all. It's about synergy and protecting their venue from competition. BMO field will be filled for more dates because of the CFL and used for a winter classic. The practice facility at downsview now gets a double bill with the argos. Separately, by avoiding the creation of a Yorku stadium or another venue around the GTA, they lessen the chance of competition and tighten their grip on major league sports in the city.

[Joe MacCarthy]

^ That about sums it up right there.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Leiweke hints MLSE may buy Argonauts, with NFL also in mind

MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke gave a wide ranging speech Tuesday, touching on Drake, the CFL, Toronto sports culture and the ‘bloody big deal.’

Zoe McKnight Staff Reporter thestar.com Jan 28 2014

At a candid speech Tuesday night, Tim Leiweke — the MLSE CEO known for the kind of off-the-cuff comments that make communications staff nervous — may have hinted at a future deal between the company he directs and the CFL’s Toronto Argonauts.

Leiweke has said MLSE is interested in paying for an expansion of city-owned BMO Field, and soon, to include a partial roof and more seats.

At the TIFF Bell Lightbox on Tuesday — the same day TSN published a report that talks between MLSE and current Argos owner David Braley were “heating up” — Leiweke said he’d be willing to share the refurbished field with a CFL team.

“We’re going to spend $120 million to build an English Premier (League)-style stadium, with a roof that covers the seats,” Leiweke said.

“Yeah, there are rumours there may be a CFL solution, but we’ll do it in a way you’ll never know there’s a CFL team when you’re there for a soccer game, and you’ll never know there’s a soccer team when you’re there for a CFL game. It’s engineering and we can fix that.”

Later, he said giving football fans a chance to watch games in the new stadium would help not only the CFL, but an eventual push for an NFL team.

“I think giving fans an opportunity to go see an Argos game outdoors in a stadium with a roof that covers the seat, in a 30,000-seat environment, with real grass, is awesome, and it will help turn that franchise around.

“So we’re going to start with that. There’s no way the NFL comes here without the CFL being unbelievably successful first.”

MLSE communications staff declined to comment further Tuesday night, as did the CFL.

Toronto Argos chairman and CEO Chris Rudge said while he couldn’t comment on any deal between the team’s owner and MLSE, he’d be happy to play at BMO Field.

After their Rogers Centre lease runs out in 2017, the team will need a new place to play, and Rudge said he’d be happy to return to Exhibition Place, the Argos’ former home, even as a tenant.

“I’d be delighted to hear someone would like to build us a home,” he said.

“If something more were to happen, that will work itself out,” he said, deferring to Braley and MLSE.

Another tidbit Leiweke let slip — throwing in an “am I going to get in trouble for doing this?” directed at his PR team — was a new program starting next NHL season to give away a “couple hundred” Leafs tickets each regular season game.

The tickets will go to the members of Leafs Nation, those who have never been able to afford the high ticket prices, who will attend a game for the first time as a guest of MLSE.

“We’ve got to introduce a new noise level, a new culture and a whole new generation of fans into that building,” he said.

Other future plans include involving Raptors global ambassador and hip hop megastar Drake in more MLSE business. MLSE wants to create a nightclub at the Air Canada Centre and Drake “might be a partner in that,” Leiweke said.

What it adds up to, he hopes, is the creation of a new culture among MLSE’s sports teams, starting with BMO Field.

“The city deserves it, our fans deserve it. And this is the message we’re sending all of our teams from this point on. We mean business. We want to win championships.”

Professional soccer will be as popular as the NHL in just a decade, Leiweke told the crowd of marketing professionals, which is partly why the company decided to shock the soccer world by spending tens of millions of dollars earlier this month to bring Jermain Defoe and Michael Bradley to TFC.

The deal with American midfielder Bradley, the “heart and soul of U.S. national team,” even came as a surprise to U.S. head coach Jurgen Klinsmann, who had told Leiweke the deal would never happen — in the midst of negotiations and just days before the papers were signed.

[TFC07]

So okay, NFL is definitely on MLSE agenda. So you're proving my point that this move is more got to do with NFL than anything else. Larry T and Rogers both want NFL team. So this is first step of reaching their goal.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Rumours fly: Are the Toronto Argonauts being bought by MLSE?

Don Landry ca.sports.yahoo.com 55 Yard Line

The rumours have been floating out there for some time, now.

Would Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment be interested in purchasing the Toronto Argonauts? Would part-owner of MLSE, Larry Tanenbaum be?

While those rumours have been circulated and decried a number of times since last spring, it seems there is plenty of smoke around them now to declare that there is fire evident.

That's what TSN's Dave Naylor - who is exceptionally well plugged in when it comes to matters of the CFL - is reporting in a story on TSN's website.

Naylor writes:

The Toronto Argonauts could be sold within a matter of weeks, either to Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment or its chairman, Larry Tanenbaum, according to multiple sources.

Talks between David Braley and MLSE have heated up in recent months to the point that the MLSE board, which includes Tanenbaum as well as representatives from Bell and Rogers, was asked to vote during December on acquiring the CFL team.

It's been no secret that Argos owner David Braley - who also owns the B.C. Lions - has been searching for someone to purchase the team. The league itself would welcome a new owner, as the optics of one person owning two teams has never been considered positive.

As Naylor reports, the matter of purchasing the Toronto Argonauts has even gone so far as to reach the inner confines of the board rooms of Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment, although it has been met with some push back.

That's where a pretty good battle might be waged between Bell Media and Rogers, who own equal shares of MLSE. While Rogers has not shown itself to be particularly friendly to the CFL and the Argos, with a distinct lack of coverage of the league and team on its outlets, Bell is a major partner with the CFL, as it owns TSN, the exclusive carrier of the league. While Rogers executives might not have any skin in the game when it comes to the CFL, Bell obviously does. The question is: Can they win the battle to bring the Argos into the fold?

Bell Media would be very interested in securing a more stable road ahead for the Argos, who face an uncertain future right now. The Rogers-owned Toronto Blue Jays have announced that they will be installing real grass in their stadium (also owned by Rogers), in time for the 2018 season. The Argonauts, North America's oldest professional sports franchise, will need a home once they complete the 2017 season.

For their part, a highly-placed source with MLSE told me last spring that the company had no interest in seeing the Argos orphaned, even as the company continued to lay the groundwork for acquiring an NFL team. MLSE, they said, was not thrilled with the notion that they could be seen as the ones with the black hats, should the Argos be forced to move out of Toronto.

In fact, a new stadium was in the early planning stages for both the Argos and MLSE's soccer team, Toronto FC, I was told. However, it would have been built in conjunction with a multi-billion dollar casino and resort project that was being proposed by MGM for the Exhibition Place grounds and when that died at Toronto city council last May, so did the stadium.

There seems to be even more urgency at play for the Argos, according to Naylor:

From the Argos perspective, the team is in desperate need of a new practice facility, having been told by the University of Toronto that its Mississauga campus can no longer house the football team. With three months until the opening of CFL training camps, a sale would presumably open the door to the Argos taking up residence at the KIA Training Ground, the practice home of Toronto FC which includes three full-size grass fields, four artificial fields and a 40,000 square foot field house in Downsview.

Argos players and coaches have long complained about the practice field at the U of T and their semi-permanent offices suffered a terrible blow in 2011 when a fire gutted much of it. A move from that location would not break anyone's heart.

Whether MLSE eventually votes to buy the Argos or Tanenbaum goes about it on his own, it seems the President of MLSE, Tim Leiweke, is a proponent of the Argonauts moving to BMO Field, which currently houses Toronto FC.

Leiweke has said for the record that he believes a soccer team and football team can coexist at a facility - with natural grass - with careful upkeep and intelligent scheduling. Lately he's been musing about expanding the stadium from it's current capacity of about 21,000, in order to host bigger events like the Grey Cup Game and an outdoor NHL game.

The possibility of MLSE owning the Argonauts will, no doubt, bother some fans of the football team who see the company - and Tanenbaum - as evil forces who care really only about the NFL.

However, the Argos need a home and they need new ownership. Casting in with MLSE and its penchant for glitz and show biz would be a definite boost for the team's cache in the city of Toronto. It would mean stability. If Leiweke treated the Argos the way he has MLSE's other properties, you'd have to consider it a boon for the business of three down football in Toronto.

If this gets done - forgive me for co-opting a recent MLSE soccer tag line - it'd be a bloody big deal for the Argos.

[Trillium]

From Kurtis Larson in today's Sun

A shared venue would make it difficult for TFC's grounds crew to preserve a pristine, natural grass pitch with a dozen CFL games staged at Canada's national soccer stadium every summer.

Nice to see the jorno's calling BME Canada's national stadium... but it seems the MLSE deal for the double blue is getting closer to being a done deal, its going to too bad for the surface at the stadium, plastic will be on its way once the ground share proves you cannot keep the grass pitch in any decent shape with CFL football tearing up the middle on rainy saturday afternoons.

It will be a head scratcher to the folks at MLS headquarters when this happens given the investment in so called marquee players the league has helped to broker.

[DigzTFC]

Lets talk about the positive in this move. If, hypothetically, it works. What's to say this doesn't set the standard for other CFL stadiums to emulate?

What if the Ottawa Fury saw grass as a better solution than turf? What if Winnipeg, Calgary, Regina, Edmonton, Hamilton etc. all saw the potential in having an division 2 team where the in-game stadium works for both sports.

[TFC07]

Lets talk about the positive in this move. If, hypothetically, it works. What's to say this doesn't set the standard for other CFL stadiums to emulate?

What if the Ottawa Fury saw grass as a better solution than turf? What if Winnipeg, Calgary, Regina, Edmonton, Hamilton etc. all saw the potential in having an division 2 team where the in-game stadium works for both sports.

Another positive is that CSA can host a friendly against bigger nation (like say England) at bigger BMO field.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I honestly believe MLSE is going to look at something innovative to try and make the turf situation work. I've read a fair amount on the subject and there are no miracles. You still can't grow grass in shade (something the RC might face) and the Desso GrassMaster system isn't all that but 120 million is a lot of loot and it is going to be interesting to see the design (which may not be long in coming)

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

Another positive is that CSA can host a friendly against bigger nation (like say England) at bigger BMO field.

How is having even more wankers who do not support Canada at our home matches a positive. I feel this is a negative for Canada. We can't even sell out the stadium as it is right now. How is a half empty or a stadium filled with 3/4 Honduras fans going to help Canada in a WCQ? **** day for football in Canada.