Joe MacCarthy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 You seem to be forgetting that it isn't TFC's stadium. Neither they nor MLSE own it. And if and when MLSE buys the Argos, that puts both teams in basically the same position. The CFL TV contract is basically the same amount as MLS' US contract except it's split among fewer teams. It would be foolhardy for MLSE to treat the Argos poorly especially now with the NFL "dream" having gone up in smoke. I was looking for information on groundsharing and the Wembley video that I posted above provided some. And much to my shock (and popular myth) the head groundskeeper claims soccer is more damaging than football to turf. To me the issue will be the paint removal which IMO some soccer fans are overly fixated upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 The purpose of the expansion is to host outdoor Leafs games. At this point in time it wasn't even necessary to expand the seating capacity for TFC. The demand simply isn't there. (although a roof would have been nice). The city has told MLSE that they will only be allowed to expand the stadium if they make useful for Canadian football. MLSE didn't need to expand the stadium under these circumstances. But they are choosing to do so, at the detriment to TFC (and soccer in general). again, we can keep going back and forth here but I think we just differ in opinion. MLSE is trying to grow TFC, it's clearly become a lead asset for Lieweke and he sees opportunity in it. He is growing this stadium with TFC in mind. Otherwise, as you mentioned, more empty seats would frankly be detrimental to the experience, and if anything sully the investment he's already put into it. He's not stupid, he's doing this for the tenant that's going to be using the stadium the most and sees it as a growth opportunity. To the point made above, I agree. This will basically come down to whether those lines can get removed quick enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 You know what makes me sad with all this, is how MLS clubs are businesses rather than football clubs. Sure, there are academies and other things of the sort, but MLS teams are straight up franchises that function as businesses more than anything else. Clubs around the world are just the same. I think, from all that is happened with TFC and MLS in general, I really understand now where a lot of people who have been alive longer than myself are when it comes to the dislike of modern football. Doing things simply for the fans and the club, no matter what the cost, just doesn't seem to exist any longer, at least not with pro football. Hell, my own club here in Saskatoon is probably going to take a serious look at becoming an NPO because it is impossible to try and get sponsorships or anyone to work with you if you're just a bunch of guys looking to try and create something. It really sucks how the bottom line has sucked the life out of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 To the point made above, I agree. This will basically come down to whether those lines can get removed quick enough.The issue shouldn't be how quickly they're removed (scheduling should take care of that). The issue is how much damage to the turf will the power washing removal be (as per Wembley groundskeeper) and length of time to recover. Again I am confident the scheduling will cover that. Am I saying there will never be an instance where there won't be a problem, obviously no, but I honestly don't see the issue for much of the schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 BMO Field Public Meeting Document March 5, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 And lets not forget the infamous World Cup Qualifier in Edmonton 10 years back. Is that what we want to see happen to BMO Field? ...when Commonwealth Stadium had natural grass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 You seem to be forgetting that it isn't TFC's stadium. Neither they nor MLSE own it. And if and when MLSE buys the Argos, that puts both teams in basically the same position. The CFL TV contract is basically the same amount as MLS' US contract except it's split among fewer teams. It would be foolhardy for MLSE to treat the Argos poorly especially now with the NFL "dream" having gone up in smoke. I was looking for information on groundsharing and the Wembley video that I posted above provided some. And much to my shock (and popular myth) the head groundskeeper claims soccer is more damaging than football to turf. To me the issue will be the paint removal which IMO some soccer fans are overly fixated upon. MLS has more than one TV contract unlike CFL. There's Spanish TV rights, Canadian TV rights and regional TV rights. Money adds up pretty quickly and I wouldn't be shocked if MLS clubs get more than $4 million USD per team. NFL dream is still alive and even Americans know that (A journalist on CBS admit this recently). Toronto NFL dream is going to be determine when Wilson family sell the Bills. Whoever buys the Bills will determine if it's leaving Buffalo and moving to Toronto or not. Reports already out that MLSE (Larry T, Lewieke and Ed Rogers) plan to bring NFL to Toronto. In fact, MLSE is working on design of new stadium for NFL team while doing their due diligence seeing how market (Toronto) would react and support NFL team in Toronto as we speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 MLS has more than one TV contract unlike CFL. There's Spanish TV rights, Canadian TV rights and regional TV rights. Money adds up pretty quickly and I wouldn't be shocked if MLS clubs get more than $4 million USD per team. The LA Galaxy's local deal alone is worth $5 million per year. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/15/sports/la-sp-galaxy-tv-20111116 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 The LA Galaxy's local deal alone is worth $5 million per year. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/nov/15/sports/la-sp-galaxy-tv-20111116 But yet, CFL fans like brag about their little (yes, it's little) TV deal despite their huge TV rating. $4 million CDN is peanuts to MLSE. Then add the fact that Argos only play 9-11 games, gate revenue isn't going to be that high either (especially compared to TFC who play 20+ games per year) So there isn't much upside owning Argos. Argos just being used to get taxpayer money while protecting NFL interest for potential owners of Toronto NFL team. It's too bad CFL fans don't see it and continue bashing Toronto and Argos' competition (TFC and Blue Jays) instead of accepting what's going on despite reports out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 So Mr. Joe MacCarthy you think us soccer fans are overly fixated with the paint removal regarding the Argos moving into BMO Field. Well I am and I don't want to see any evidence on the pitch that the Argos play there period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red card Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 MLS tv deal with NBC is worth $10-12 million per year or less than $1 million/team. But rumours new deal with espn/fox for next year might be $3-4 million/team. International tv rights are only in the 8 figure range for the entire league. So, Galaxy local deal is an exception rather than the rule. Canadian tv rights for MLS is unlikely to be even approaching 25% of the money the CFL will receive this year given average MLS ratings are below 100k per match while CFL is over 700k and playoffs/Grey Cup get over 1 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Argos just being used to get taxpayer money while protecting NFL interest for potential owners of Toronto NFL team. It's too bad CFL fans don't see it and continue bashing Toronto and Argos' competition (TFC and Blue Jays) instead of accepting what's going on despite reports out there.Ya know, I've been posting to other forums about how reasonable TFC fans have been about this, but I have to say based on your ridiculous postings that even most other TFC fans disagree with at redpatchboys, it makes me happy to say the Argos are going to BMO. All your Argo hate and googling any old point to try and make a case against them now looks good on ya. So move on over, the Argos are comin' My apologies for that, to you reasonable TFC fans out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 Ya know, I've been posting to other forums about how reasonable TFC fans have been about this, but I have to say based on your ridiculous postings that even most other TFC fans disagree with at redpatchboys, it makes me happy to say the Argos are going to BMO. All your Argo hate and googling any old point to try and make a case against them now looks good on ya. So move on over, the Argos are comin' My apologies for that, to you reasonable TFC fans out there. How is it hate? I am simply questioning motivation of Argos moving into BMO field and why MLSE would be interested in Argos. If anything, it's CFL crowd that have a hate on for TFC/soccer and have this entitlement that we (taxpayers) should fund their stadiums and Grey Cups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFC07 Posted March 8, 2014 Share Posted March 8, 2014 MLS tv deal with NBC is worth $10-12 million per year or less than $1 million/team. But rumours new deal with espn/fox for next year might be $3-4 million/team. International tv rights are only in the 8 figure range for the entire league. So, Galaxy local deal is an exception rather than the rule. Canadian tv rights for MLS is unlikely to be even approaching 25% of the money the CFL will receive this year given average MLS ratings are below 100k per match while CFL is over 700k and playoffs/Grey Cup get over 1 million. But yet, MLS teams get as much TV money (or in some cases more money) as CFL teams who happened to have high ratings. What does that say about CFL? Just imagine if MLS had higher ratings, how much more money they will get from TV rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1996 Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Hey Joe MacCarthy I don't won't the Argos at BMO period and even if they do come in I still will not like it one bit. I could care less about the Argos or the CFL. The hate that non soccer fans in Canada have for soccer is incredible, have you ever read the comment section under any soccer article in most newspapers or other media in Canada, anytime a soccer article is posted the soccer haters come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuzzAndSting Posted March 9, 2014 Share Posted March 9, 2014 Is anyone else concerned that MNT games at this stadium will be embarrassing because we won't be able to attract more than 15K? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted March 9, 2014 Author Share Posted March 9, 2014 Is anyone else concerned that MNT games at this stadium will be embarrassing because we won't be able to attract more than 15K?It really is a head scratcher to see how little concern has been expressed by the CSA and indeed by the TFC supporters groups, who seem to have basically laid down on the whole issue of a ground share with the Argos and the painting of CFL lines on the pitch etc. The least they can do is make a decent TIFO for the first home game.... opposing the dual use, I suspect they will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gator Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 It really is a head scratcher to see how little concern has been expressed by the CSA and indeed by the TFC supporters groups, who seem to have basically laid down on the whole issue of a ground share with the Argos and the painting of CFL lines on the pitch etc. The least they can do is make a decent TIFO for the first home game.... opposing the dual use, I suspect they will not. I can't comment on other groups but I know there are many U-SECTOR members who are opposed to the ground share! I personally hate the idea and am not convinced this isn't going to severely compromise the MNT and TFC viewing experience at BMO, here's a link for those interested: http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector/index.php?showtopic=17529 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Looks like we will have to carry the conversation on in this thread as the old forum is locked. In response to Rudi, I disagree that that Tim L and Tim B have been clear on the topic of the playing surface. They never use absolute wording. Only that they will TRY to keep the playing surface pristine. They never guarantee that Canadian football won't be an issue. I'm sorry but in this blog post, Tim B comes across as a corporate yes man: http://blogs.canoe.ca/reds/sports/tfc-gm-tim-bezbatchenko-we-need-an-expanded-stadium/ In response to Blackdude, who insists the federal government will not provide funding. In this City of Toronto document: http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2014.EX39.4 there is the following: "The Federal and Provincial governments have expressed interest in matching the City's investment in order to provide a total public sector contribution of $30 million. Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd. ("MLSEL") will provide the balance ($90 million) of the total estimated $120 million funding required for the project." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest admin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Yeah, sorry Narduch, there was stuff piling up in there that looked good too. I especially wanted to reply to Grizzly's post about the money. My question is, since the CFL has practically pulled a billion + in stadium money out of government levels in the last few years, why not just build them their own stadium. Why kill the NSS. It's a done deal, It's happening and there isn't shit we can do about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 No worries, the new site looks great. I will have to check out the mobile version. Hopefully that has improved too. Pro sports in Toronto work better downtown. I don't think there is anywhere else to build the Argos a stadium. I don't think it would be a success at Downsview or York U or Woodbine or in the suburbs. Besides MLSE stops a new competing stadium from being built by having the Argos as a BMO Field tenant. Plus this has more to do with MLSE's desire to host outdoor hockey. The Argos as an additional tenant are a bonus to them and a way to squeeze out some tax payer money. Its kind of sad that the CSA is just standing by on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest admin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 No worries, the new site looks great. I will have to check out the mobile version. Hopefully that has improved too. Pro sports in Toronto work better downtown. I don't think there is anywhere else to build the Argos a stadium. I don't think it would be a success at Downsview or York U or Woodbine or in the suburbs. Besides MLSE stops a new competing stadium from being built by having the Argos as a BMO Field tenant. Plus this has more to do with MLSE's desire to host outdoor hockey. The Argos as an additional tenant are a bonus to them and a way to squeeze out some tax payer money. Its kind of sad that the CSA is just standing by on this. Why KP got his job(s). We just got jobbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Why KP got his job(s). We just got jobbed. I mentioned this in the lost posts, but I like traveling to Montreal so I won't really mind when they are hosting the bulk of national team games there. I'm not aware of Kevin Pipe's fate. Where does he work these days? And why is that stopping the current CSA administration from commenting/lobbying against this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 We just got jobbed. Well if you got "jobbed" it wasn't by the Argos, it was by your own owners and it wasn't TFC's stadium to begin with. And that whole National Soccer Stadium stuff was BS. Nobody cared when it was Edmonton and nobody cared when it was Toronto. Shouldn't even bother with the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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