Joe MacCarthy Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 They could but that's foolish. It's their biggest market. It's like pro sports in the USA without a team in NY.Or Los Angeles. Toronto may be the biggest market but right now it is the worst and an albatross for the league until the situation improves to better than it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Okay this isn't a p*ssy post like the last few, but rather a considered one. When it comes to National Stadiums, are Canadian soccer fans becoming transfix on the likes of Wembley when talking up National stadiums? It is understandable as This can be considered a true National Football stadium (NFS) for the following reasons. It is capable of Hosting four (4) codes of football : The Three indigenous ones Association Football, Rugby League and Rugby Union (although Twickenham is really home to this code), plus the visiting NFL code from across the Atlantic. Obviously any visiting AFL games would have to find an Oval where they don't so much care for their wicket been obliterated! (Chelmsford, perhaps?) It is the current home of the Football Association. the FA having moved out of Soho some time after its completion. However, most importantly and unlike most Other European nation except Maybe the Germans, all of England's home games are played there. this is because irrespective of the cost of building the thing: and , irrespective of Northern folk who moan every year about how far away, it is no more than a days drive (including the return leg) away from anywhere. Now Logistics would say that Birmingham would have been more accommodating as a location for a National stadium in England due to central location. However those Logistics would have made Birmingham 2012 the Olympic Venue- That was never going to happen as London is Internationally Iconic. Wembley also has Iconic status internationally Due to History and experience. As does the Estádio do Maracanã and to some extent The Olympiastadion in Berlin (although its trying to live its darkest hour down). In the case of England and Germany the stadium is in the capital. By this measure Canada's National stadium would have to be Lansdowne in Ottawa. In the case of Estádio do Maracanã it is in the most Populous region of the country. Wembley is less so, been out in west London, but that in a country half the size of Alberta would be splitting hairs. The Main reason Canada will always struggle for A National Football stadium is that Soccer will never be the National Sport. and the Nation just Physically too big to confine its national team within One Province. You could argue Australia here with the fact the "MCG" been a center piece national stadium for the AFL but AFL is really a Victorian, South and Western Australian obsession, Queensland and NSW are Rugby states- and they Ply their Grand Final in Sydney Point been, these stadiums focus on the National Sport of the Country. In Canada's case soccer is not the national sport. One last thought, If Canada Truly had a National stadium would it not have an Ice-rink in the center of It? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrus Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Wembley also has Iconic status internationally Due to History and experience. As does the Estádio do Maracanã and to some extent The Olympiastadion in Berlin (although its trying to live its darkest hour down). You can cross Germany off your list. Hertha Berlin's stadium can't really be considered a national stadium anymore, if it ever really was. Recent German friendlies and qualifiers have been held all over the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 JM - I don't think you'll ever see regular crowds over 45k for any sport in Canada again. I guess we'll wait and see how that plays out. I personally think it's possible when the right product, high level soccer, comes along. On a different note, I am excited to see how North American soccer is going to transform and change with the recent introduction of the New York Cosmos to NASL. It's an exciting time right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 Think what it would be like to see Cosmos play NASL games in Toronto against a revived Blizzard, playing on grass at the National Soccer Stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finchster Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I guess we'll wait and see how that plays out. I personally think it's possible when the right product, high level soccer, comes along. Demographics play a role too, young men are more likely to spend money on stupid things like sports tickets. Exhibit A) Me. In 2012 I spent around 2.5-3k to watch the CMNT and god only knows what on the Whitecaps that year. I think it's unlikely I will have that kind of disposable cash in 10 years to do it again, but one can dream haha. With fewer young people I think this demand for tickets will not be there, but there will be a growing demand for things like luxury suites and 'game day experience' things (end zone patios etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Think what it would be like to see Cosmos play NASL games in Toronto against a revived Blizzard, playing on grass at the National Soccer Stadium. That's an interesting thought. If the Cosmos pack that future 25K stadium in the NASL and build a semi-super club, that team is going to sway a lot of future billionaire investment from MLS to the NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 That's an interesting thought. If the Cosmos pack that future 25K stadium in the NASL and build a semi-super club, that team is going to sway a lot of future billionaire investment from MLS to the NASL. On that subject Consider that the Cosmos put (according to Tom Fath) break even numbers of 6K+ onto the bleachers in their Inaugural season. The buy in for NASL is 750K a $20million bank balance for the Principle (50%+) owner, and a clean field stadium with 5K capacity you don't need to be a billionaire owner in the NASL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trillium Posted January 8, 2014 Author Share Posted January 8, 2014 On that subject Consider that the Cosmos put (according to Tom Fath) break even numbers of 6K+ onto the bleachers in their Inaugural season. The buy in for NASL is 750K a $20million bank balance for the Principle (50%+) owner, and a clean field stadium with 5K capacity you don't need to be a billionaire owner in the NASL. In time a 750k buy in allows NASL to have a second division with promotion relegation based on league play and size of stadia. If NASL can get to point of saying clubs only get to spend 70% of revenue on team league operations ( including profit ) and have to invest other 30% of revenues in facilitys or on base youth teams etc. you can have movement to many many more professional teams in USA and Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 In time a 750k buy in allows NASL to have a second division with promotion relegation based on league play and size of stadia. If NASL can get to point of saying clubs only get to spend 70% of revenue on team league operations ( including profit ) and have to invest other 30% of revenues in facilitys or on base youth teams etc. you can have movement to many many more professional teams in USA and Canada. Yes and I personally like a model which forces the clubs to be fiscally prudent whilst allowing them independent autonomy. A "truism" I heard recently went like this, "If the owners of Association Football clubs applied the logic they employ in running said club, to their daily business enterprises, they would never make enough money to own the damn club in the first place. I'm sure this also applies to other sports. Also: while I'm god I'd make sacking head coaches/managers only admissible during off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macksam Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 On that subject Consider that the Cosmos put (according to Tom Fath) break even numbers of 6K+ onto the bleachers in their Inaugural season. The buy in for NASL is 750K a $20million bank balance for the Principle (50%+) owner, and a clean field stadium with 5K capacity you don't need to be a billionaire owner in the NASL. Yeah, it will be interesting to see what the future of the league will look like. In time a 750k buy in allows NASL to have a second division with promotion relegation based on league play and size of stadia. If NASL can get to point of saying clubs only get to spend 70% of revenue on team league operations ( including profit ) and have to invest other 30% of revenues in facilitys or on base youth teams etc. you can have movement to many many more professional teams in USA and Canada. Yeah, the NASL can have promotion relegation, amongst it's own members clubs of course (no MLS/USL), in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Yeah, the NASL can have promotion relegation, amongst it's own members clubs of course (no MLS/USL), in the future. Which at this current rate of expansion (15 clubs in 5 years) could be in place by 2020. Ideally 32 clubs, mind. this would allow for an Unseeded 5 round Knockout cup Competition and give the NASL league 2 bottom dwellers a chance to play the Cosmos! (yeah yeah, we know. It is ALL about the Cosmos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Demographics play a role too, young men are more likely to spend money on stupid things like sports tickets. Exhibit A) Me. In 2012 I spent around 2.5-3k to watch the CMNT and god only knows what on the Whitecaps that year. I think it's unlikely I will have that kind of disposable cash in 10 years to do it again, but one can dream haha. With fewer young people I think this demand for tickets will not be there, but there will be a growing demand for things like luxury suites and 'game day experience' things (end zone patios etc). Or urban professional men in their 30s and 40s with no kids and disposable income. I don't want to be in luxury suites cause the CNMT Game Day Experience is with my fellow Vs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Its been my experience that urban professional men Single men in 30-40's group with no kids tend to have no disposable income due to alimony payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazlo_80 Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 article about the plans for the stadium... http://www.sportsnet.ca/soccer/toronto-fc-bmo-field-argos-tim-leiweke-cfl-mls/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 It appears as if MLSE and Mr Leiwcke are looking at altering the National Football Stadium on the grounds of the CNE to be a plastic turf, multi use stadium for Argonauts CFL games and Maple Leafs outdoor hockey games.As far as installing artificial turf, Leiweke maintains that is not going to happen. “I want to be as clear as I can: We are committed to grass. There is no miscommunication on the grass issue,” Leiweke stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Just reading about what MLSE is talking about re BMO, if they are able to accomplish what they are publicly stating. it could be somewhat revolutionary. Looks like they want to spend up to 150 million and if they are able to accomplish this without affecting the soccer experience it could be quite interesting to see what they do, architecturally speaking. Hey, I think this is back on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpg75 Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 So this whole thread was as a result of an incorrect assumption by the OP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Ok, I'll get this off topic again. Leiweke often references BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston, that is home to the Houston Dynamo,the Houston Dash of the National Women's Soccer League, and to Texas Southern Tigers football. Apparently, they play high school football there as well. This is one of our main references as to whether this project can succeed. Anyone care to do the due diligence on how this arrangement has been working out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Some background The 1st year at BBVA Compass Stadium in Houston The bad Houston Dynamo players admit BBVA Compass Stadium field conditions will be a factor vs. New York Red Bulls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The only reason for a bumpy, uneven and downright poor grass surface in such a stadium is down to.... not putting in down right in the first place. By Putting it down right, I mean spending the Pre requisite dollars on soil assessment, procurement and methodology in execution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Why is Desso not a part of conversation at all? Would a partially synthetic surface not help with the wear & tear of football games? Also, what happened to the talk of the Argos going to Mississauga or some such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 The only reason for a bumpy, uneven and downright poor grass surface in such a stadium is down to.... not putting in down right in the first place. By Putting it down right, I mean spending the Pre requisite dollars on soil assessment, procurement and methodology in execution. Well, I can tell you what ten 300 lb plus guys, wearing pointy things on the bottom of their shoes, having a pushing match in a limited space, think of your methodology. As for Grassmaster etc, everything we're all saying is conjecture, no news just rumour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alberta white Posted January 10, 2014 Share Posted January 10, 2014 Well, I can tell you what ten 300 lb plus guys, wearing pointy things on the bottom of their shoes, having a pushing match in a limited space, think of your methodology. As for Grassmaster etc, everything we're all saying is conjecture, no news just rumour. Which Just goes to Show that Its a sport best reserved for the Dohyō Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted January 11, 2014 Share Posted January 11, 2014 A few more real world examples to keep an eye on re ground sharing, in this case using the Desso Grassmaster system I'm under the impression that football is harder on turf than rugby (being more fluid), not sure if that is correct though. Interesting video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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