Admin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Well if you got "jobbed" it wasn't by the Argos, it was by your own owners and it wasn't TFC's stadium to begin with. And that whole National Soccer Stadium stuff was BS. Nobody cared when it was Edmonton and nobody cared when it was Toronto. Shouldn't even bother with the idea. That's not what I was implying. Who got the best of this deal? Who made the deal on the CSA end... and where did they end up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Who got the best of this deal? Who made the deal on the CSA end... and where did they end up. Not sure what you're talking about. Do you mean the original stadium deal or what's been happening recently. As for Kevan Pipe (Kevan with an A) unlike heaven in the sig above which has an A instead of an E, Pipe is still a sales rep with FieldTurf. This might offer some history: TFC/CSA saga: The Pipe-line but I don't get the correlation and what that has to do with what is happening today, It's still going to be the National Soccer Stadium for what little that's worth. Maybe I'll just bow out because I have no idea where you're taking this and I hope it's not a conspiracy theory that Kevan Pipe is trying to get FieldTurf back at BMO, Now every TFC/CSA Legion of Doom whacko will pick up on that, I shouldn't have planted the seed. I just meant that jab for the few, not the majority of TFC fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 All history now, doesn't matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 That's right. People can be backward thinking (like some Hamilton people who are still posting renders of stadium designs that weren't even seriously considered), or TFC and Argo fans can look ahead and try to make things work the best for both. Non cooperation isn't going to help either side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 That's right. People can be backward thinking (like some Hamilton people who are still posting renders of stadium designs that weren't even seriously considered), or TFC and Argo fans can look ahead and try to make things work the best for both. Non cooperation isn't going to help either side. What happens when the playing surface is affected? By then its already too late. It will be a step backwards for soccer in this country if BMO Field is no longer a grass pitch stadium. All we have to go on is faith that MLSE will find a solution, despite the fact that currently none exists. I never thought of MLSE as a forward-thinking company. They are very conservative when it comes to things like this. Besides I don't think we have any say in this anyways. Its happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It will be a step backwards for soccer in this country if BMO Field is no longer a grass pitch stadium. All we have to go on is faith that MLSE will find a solution, despite the fact that currently none exists. That just isn't true. I refer you back to the myth busting of the head Wembley groundskeeper who said that soccer is tougher on the pitch than football and that Desso holds up well to the type of movement that players have in football. There are many instances of groundsharing but if people continue to hold up occasional horror stories (usually caused by poor scheduling) there isn't anything I can say to assuage them. I can understand the hurt feelings amongst TFC fans but if this is going to be a debate let's at least try and be informed of the facts and use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 That just isn't true. I refer you back to the myth busting of the head Wembley groundskeeper who said that soccer is tougher on the pitch than football and that Desso holds up well to the type of movement that players have in football. Wembley is a totally different situation. It only hosts one American football game a year. All that Wembley proves is that it can host A LOT of soccer games, with the occasional other game/event interspersed. And one guys opinion that soccer is tougher on grass than North American football is highly dubious (and borderline laughable). As for the ground share issue. There isn't a single example of a football/soccer ground share on real grass that has worked. The hybrid technology isn't proven to work in this situation. And the issue of line removal has not been solved either. I don't hate the Argos. I really wish this could work. But there is currently no proof that this will work and I don't have faith in MLSE to be the people to make this work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 And one guys opinion that soccer is tougher on grass than North American football is highly dubious (and borderline laughable). But there is currently no proof that this will work and I don't have faith in MLSE to be the people to make this work. It's borderline laughable that we would consider a guy posting to a web forum's opinion versus the head groundskeeper of likely the most important grass pitch in the world. C'mon get real. And please don't say it won't work when there have been examples of groundsharing given in this thread. Your generalizations on this without evidence nor fact are disingenuous. And in case our resident Argo hater enters the fray, I'll make this clear yet again, I have never, ever said there wouldn't be occasional issues. I don't have a dog in the turf fight, I could care less if it works or not, and they reinstall FieldTurf, I'm just going by the evidence that has been provided by the people who work with pitches on a daily basis and are trained experts rather than two guys debating on a soccer message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 It's borderline laughable that we would consider a guy posting to a web forum's opinion versus the head groundskeeper of likely the most important grass pitch in the world. C'mon get real. And please don't say it won't work when there have been examples of groundsharing given in this thread. Your generalizations on this without evidence nor fact are disingenuous. And in case our resident Argo hater enters the fray, I'll make this clear yet again, I have never, ever said there wouldn't be occasional issues. I don't have a dog in the turf fight, I could care less if it works or not, and they reinstall FieldTurf, I'm just going by the evidence that has been provided by the people who work with pitches on a daily basis and are trained experts rather than two guys debating on a soccer message board. Please point me to the examples of ground sharing on natural grass that are working. Examples where the two main tenants are soccer and football teams. Examples of football gridlines being washed off of grass fields without being detrimental to the pitch. I would love to be proven wrong. I have no issue receiving new information that could change my mind. But at this point all we have is blind faith, obfuscated facts from supporters of this idea and talk from MLSE suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Please point me to the examples of ground sharing on natural grass that are working. Examples where the two main tenants are soccer and football teams. Examples of football gridlines being washed off of grass fields without being detrimental to the pitch. I would love to be proven wrong. I have no issue receiving new information that could change my mind. But at this point all we have is blind faith, obfuscated facts from supporters of this idea and talk from MLSE suits. Read the thread, the examples are here, I'm not going to do your reading for you. As for "obfuscated facts", if you consider the straight words coming out of an expert's mouth (Wembley groundskeeper) obfuscated, then I'm just wasting my time posting. And you do have an issue receiving new information that could change your mind (see above paragraph). You could change my mind easily on this issue because I don't care one way or the other but at least do some research and get some facts. I'm basing my opinion on the empirical evidence (of places that groundshare now) and that of experts and the conclusion I've come to is that aside from occasional issues it can work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheeta Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 If any expansion comes off half as well as they advertize I'm thinking a great many of the sceptics are going to come around on this ground sharing scheme pretty quickly. Argos or no, that (future) venue looks a Hell of a lot more like a national Stadium than it ever has before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redcoatsforever Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 If any expansion comes off half as well as they advertize I'm thinking a great many of the sceptics are going to come around on this ground sharing scheme pretty quickly. Argos or no, that (future) venue looks a Hell of a lot more like a national Stadium than it ever has before. The roof alone is going to work wonders for attendance on rainy days. While a small part of me is going to miss watching in hellish weather, I think as I get older I'm going to want to avoid pneumonia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Once again Joe, there are zero examples of football and soccer working together on natural grass. And the Wembley grounds keeper doesn't have to deal with painting and removing football lines 10 or so times a season. The trend in North America is that all the shared football stadiums that use to have grass have switched to the fake stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 there are zero examples of football and soccer working together on natural grass. Think hard now, where do you think Mr Lieweke got his idea? Did he dream it up just for Toronto? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So you are saying you think the situation like that in Houston is optimal? Would you really want Canada to play a crucial World Cup Qualifier a week after an Argo game at BMO Field? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So you are saying you think the situation like that in Houston is optimal? Would you really want Canada to play a crucial World Cup Qualifier a week after an Argo game at BMO Field? I have gone to great lengths to say that there could be occasional issues but I think if there was proper scheduling a week would be sufficient to get the field back in shape. And who says we have to play WC qualifiers in Toronto? Segue into Saskatchewan announcement. BBVA Compass Stadium doesn't have Desso and is also in a wickedly hot climate which would make recovery more difficult. You can spare finding me the horror story of one of their games because I've already seen it, it happens, but it also made news partially because it was a relatively rare event. If it happened all the time, that would be an obvious problem, it doesn't. Toronto is in a much more temperate climate and with a hybrid pitch should be better off than BBVA which doesn't seem to be having too many issues. To show you the recovery time of Desso, at Wembley on March 22/2014, Saracens are playing Harlequins, on the 23rd there will be an FA Cup match. One of the few issues I see is the paint removal. I'm not going to overdramatize like some have if there are some faint lines visible, that's their problem and we don't even know if that will happen. My concern is will there be enough time to get the pitch in good shape and from what I saw and heard in the Wembley video, I think it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Rugby isn't the same as football. Get back to me when Wembley is hosting 10 NFL games a year. Why would soccer fans even want to chance a single game where the pitch isn't 'optimal'? How is that good for the game? Remember this is a Canadian soccer supporter site. Not an Argos booster site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Why would soccer fans even want to chance a single game where the pitch isn't 'optimal'? How is that good for the game? Remember this is a Canadian soccer supporter site. Not an Argos booster site. Considering I have been following the NT for probably 20 years before most people here were born, i don't think I need to be told that. I believe the stadium can be shared if people take a grownup stance and cooperate, obviously some here don't. It's not your stadium, simple as that, it belongs to the community and the free ride is coming to an end. I understand the problem. I don't even care for the Argos (as a team supporter), I just want them to have a sustainable future and unless MLSE pulls some shenanigans, they will with this move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 This is what I'm worried about happening at BMO Field: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/10/20/houston-dynamo-players-admit-bbva-compass-stadium-field-conditions-will-be-f There are no guarantees that they can keep the pitch in great shape and share with Canadian football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuSaPuNk Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 This is what I'm worried about happening at BMO Field: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/10/20/houston-dynamo-players-admit-bbva-compass-stadium-field-conditions-will-be-f There are no guarantees that they can keep the pitch in great shape and share with Canadian football. That's what alot of us TFC supporters have been saying. Tim L might say one thing but there is no actual prove that the two sports can play on the same field and not have these problems happen. Hybrid turf or not. It's a wait and see hopefully scheduling can be done well enough to not have these problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Bob Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So you are saying you think the situation like that in Houston is optimal? Would you really want Canada to play a crucial World Cup Qualifier a week after an Argo game at BMO Field? Lots of soccer stadiums in this country, not all of which can be hosting CFL games every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Lots of soccer stadiums in this country, not all of which can be hosting CFL games every week. And another candidate announced today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscan Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 So I see they are going with the open air concept for sure for the Riders' new stadium. We all knew having a retractable roof was pie in the sky. If this new stadium makes Regina a front runner to host a WC group, and possibly a larger game like a semi-final, it'd all be worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob.notenboom Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 The design hasn't been specified yet. There has been a lot of talk about a stadium that had the built in possibility of adding a roof later (although I have my doubts about that). I read today that the design will be announced at a later date once the agreement was finalized. Really this is in the wrong thread. Back to others taking shots at each other about Argos to BMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe MacCarthy Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 So I see they are going with the open air concept for sure for the Riders' new stadium. We all knew having a retractable roof was pie in the sky. If this new stadium makes Regina a front runner to host a WC group, and possibly a larger game like a semi-final, it'd all be worth it. The retractable roof idea as part of the initial stadium build was dismissed long ago. Now whether it will still be "roof ready" (retractable roof added in future) we won't know for another two months or so. Soccer fans should love this place, the rumour mill is suggesting something along the lines of Red Bull Arena home to RB Leipzig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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