youllneverwalkalone Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Nelson talks about Bekker in detail and outlines his plan to send many of the younger players off on loan overseas during the MLS off-season: http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/08/30/ryan-nelsen-planning-send-young-toronto-fc-players-offseason-loans-help-hard Sounds great in theory. How would this work in practice? I guess short-term loans from November to February. There are quite a few games in the England calendar during this period I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obinna Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 It will be interesting for sure, and I hope all of the Canadian guys go on loan. He mentions that he wants players at clubs which suit them, saying that Osorio will not go to Bolton, for example. That has me curious as to where they may end up. Assuming only English clubs are in play here, what level do you expect these guys will land at? Osorio is the only guy I can see at the championship level, but even that is not likely. They have to be at a club where they will get minutes. My guess is that him, Morgan, Henry, and Bekker all land in league one. Welshman and Roberts to league two clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 or A League w/ Wellington Phoenix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Will Roberts ever be welcome in England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Will Roberts ever be welcome in England? Nobody in England cares about the U17 World Cup + England got through the Group Stage unlike Canada + They didn't even watch the game, because some reports had Roberts scoring on a free kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Nobody in England cares about the U17 World Cup + England got through the Group Stage unlike Canada + They didn't even watch the game, because some reports had Roberts scoring on a free kick. Thanks Debbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I'm never sure what TFC fans deserve but as to the bolded: Preki. And Paul Mariner had paid his dues,... It's easy to dimiss people's credentials with the benefit of hindsight. There was a serious question mark as to whether Nicol or Mariner was the more influential in New England's relative success. I don't think there is now. As for Preki, that whole season left me seriously questioning how much some of the more vocal portions of the TFC fanbase and upper corporate management (mainly Anselmi) really understood about how MLS operates. The season before that under Carver and Cummins, TFC had copious amounts of extra allocation money available, so not making the playoffs that season was farcical, but Anselmi was later claiming that they thought all that was needed after that was some minor tinkering by Preki rather than a major overhaul. Then there is the whole boring style of play thing. Wynne and Brennan were not getting the job done properly at full back defensively and there was an over-emphasis on having them go on the overlap that left things exposed at the back, but attempting to replace them with Hscanovics and Usanov when a player as slow as Nick Garcia was also a big part of the equation that made a more adventurous style of play highly problematic that season as became all too clear when Dasovic (as an aside we're getting a Serbian coach, so let's insist he keep a former Dinamo Zagreb player as his assistant, because that's a proven recipe for brotherhood and unity, is another example of interesting thinking on the part of upper management) attempted it in the last few games. From what I have heard (albeit from a Red Star Belgrade fan) it was Mo Johnston rather than Preki that was behind the signings from Latvia. Preki did a really good job to get the team achieving a reasonable run of results at the start of the season, despite player acquisition misfires like that. After that when Anselmi had publicly hinted very strongly that the team had to reach the playoffs for the current management to remain in place it was all too obvious that a certain big name hometown hero downed tools to make sure Preki got fired. Stronger management would have bitten the bullet on short term criticism from the fanbase and shipped him out long before the narcissistic cheque signing gesture, but instead it was easier to do what needed to be done to meet those sales targets. We're not going to take it... As for this latest player loan in the off-season stuff. Everton obviously benefited from having an experienced USMNT player like Landon Donovan for a few weeks, because he scored goals and helped them win games. What does an English club gain from having an inexperienced fringe MLS player for a few weeks, getting playing time that they would normally be using on their own fringe inexperienced players? It's all just marketing spin that taps into the sort of subconscious Carver and Welsh must be good because they are from the Premiership mentality that a lot of the fanbase seem to have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 It's all just marketing spin that taps into the sort of subconscious Carver and Welsh must be good because they are from the Premiership mentality that a lot of the fanbase seem to have. LOL. I agree with this. Kind of explains the love for Eckersley by the fanbase, who only had a cup of coffee with Manchester United and essentially came to TFC as a League Two reject. This club's fans have a long had a history of falling for bad players from England. I do think it has to do with the fact that a large portion of the fanbase follows the game in England the most. I think that's part of the reason why Nelson was hired (ex. EPL player is easy to sell to some people) and why guys like Earnshaw are still so highly regarded despite poor play (a Championship stand out striker in the past). I don't buy Anselmi's claims that we only needed a few changes. He was just spinning and trying to sell tickets. Covering his own ass. That was his story. On Preki, in the end he was fired because the team was in a massive downward spiral. I actually doubt trading De Rosario would have helped turn that around. And as for Mariner, he has to be the most experienced inexperienced manager ever. He had such little head coach experience for a guy his age. That should have set alarm bells off immediately. I wish we could find out what Klinssman really recommended for TFC. Does anyone really believe he suggested Winter with Mariner helping out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Based on what I saw last season, Paul Mariner never would have been a perfectly acceptable hire at any time for the head coaching job. Signed, Joao Plata Plata picked up a goal & 2 assists yesterday as he continues to play regularly for the #1 team in the league. Good thing that Mariner got rid of him immediately last year when TFC was the worst team in the league, because obviously being good enough to play regularly for the best team in the league, he would be of no use to the worst team in the league. Thanks Paul. Really, although the mainstream Toronto Soccer media has come along way from the days that it didn't exist at all, a more savvy media would be all over this as a huge blunder. Or if they have done a story on it, I haven't seen it. Does anyone know what the actual reason was that Mariner got rid of Plata almost immediately? Something personal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest Cockney Rip Off Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 Plata picked up a goal & 2 assists yesterday as he continues to play regularly for the #1 team in the league. Good thing that Mariner got rid of him immediately last year when TFC was the worst team in the league, because obviously being good enough to play regularly for the best team in the league, he would be of no use to the worst team in the league. Thanks Paul. Really, although the mainstream Toronto Soccer media has come along way from the days that it didn't exist at all, a more savvy media would be all over this as a huge blunder. Or if they have done a story on it, I haven't seen it. Does anyone know what the actual reason was that Mariner got rid of Plata almost immediately? Something personal? Main stream, what about the non main stream media? They seemed pretty happy to see him go. "The question, then, is why would a team like Salt Lake be interested in him. After all, the Royals have been far more successful at identifying MLS talent than TFC. It’s a fair point, but again you must keep the importance of the transfer in perspective. RSL plans to use Plata as a fourth forward. He will not be relied upon to start, nor will he be expected to put big numbers up. What they likely envision is a player that can come off the bench late in games to cause tired defenders problems." http://www.canadiansoccernews.com/content.php?4153-Much-ado-about-little Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 We're not going to take it... Zing. Mean, but probably fair. (Though Mo was toxic by that point.) And then when you consider that they actually sent out a marketing survey to help decided the club's new direction... Re: Nicol and Mariner: is it unreasonable that they, Clough/Taylor-like, worked best as a team? Nicol had some declining years around the time Mariner left. Was Nicol the tactics and budget guy who "managed", while Mariner was the motivator "player's friend" coach part of the team? He was pretty well liked personally when he left from what I gathered. Even disregarding the high likelihood of the Peter Principle in action in regards to his later endeavors at Plymouth and TFC I still feel like a big part of the way he's remembered here has more to do with misplaced loyalty to the Klinsmann/Winter vision. I find it striking that, of the eight they've tried, the two coaches most deeply associated with MLS that TFC have ever had both left to a backdrop of protests and a notable sense of their own exasperation with the fans. Both lasted less than a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted September 1, 2013 Share Posted September 1, 2013 I don't buy Anselmi's claims that we only needed a few changes. He was just spinning and trying to sell tickets. Covering his own ass. That was his story. I disagree. What I believe actually happened is even scarier: Anselmi believed his own PR line or the line sold to him by Mo. http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector/index.php?showtopic=14064&st=0& Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Plata picked up a goal & 2 assists yesterday as he continues to play regularly for the #1 team in the league. Good thing that Mariner got rid of him immediately last year when TFC was the worst team in the league, because obviously being good enough to play regularly for the best team in the league, he would be of no use to the worst team in the league. Thanks Paul. Really, although the mainstream Toronto Soccer media has come along way from the days that it didn't exist at all, a more savvy media would be all over this as a huge blunder. Or if they have done a story on it, I haven't seen it. Does anyone know what the actual reason was that Mariner got rid of Plata almost immediately? Something personal? The rumour I heard going around is that Payne listened to the existing FO management on what to do with Plata (which must have been Cochrane? who else could it be). Plata was traded on January 30. Which means Payne was well into his tenure (he was hired right before the 2012 MLS Cup). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narduch Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I disagree. What I believe actually happened is even scarier: Anselmi believed his own PR line or the line sold to him by Mo. http://z15.invisionfree.com/U_Sector/index.php?showtopic=14064&st=0& The thing that I find even more scarier is that guys like Cochrane, Anselmi and Beirne have some how managed to survive in the FO. That really is the main reason why I'm skeptical about the new regime. I also worry about whether Payne and Leiwiecke can get along. ------------------------ Its kind of funny reading old TFC threads though. Because since the collapse in New York where TFC missed the playoffs it just feels like deja vu season after season. Even now this season to me feels like Winter's first season. I hope 2014 isn't a repeat of 2012 though. That would be devastating. But if Payne miss-fires in the transfer market again I can see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I hope 2014 isn't a repeat of 2012 though. That would be devastating. But if Payne miss-fires in the transfer market again I can see it happening. I suspect a lot of folks' desperation to believe doesn't even make them alive to the possibility. It's unlikely though because, fortunately, the benefit of a large amount of roster flexibility is that they'll be able to bring in new players without shedding important existing members of the squad. So it'll be hard to get worse unless the younger members of the squad stall or it's shown that our perception of their readiness has once again gotten ahead of their actual level based on a short sample (and positive early impression). Osorio's my big concern in that regard. What is TFC's CB situtation? Sans O'Dea and Califf, are they a Caldwell injury or suspension away from Henry and Agboss as the only options? Would Eckersley have to return to the middle? Who am I forgetting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 So it'll be hard to get worse unless the younger members of the squad stall or it's shown that our perception of their readiness has once again gotten ahead of their actual level based on a short sample (and positive early impression). Osorio's my big concern in that regard. What is TFC's CB situtation? Sans O'Dea and Califf, are they a Caldwell injury or suspension away from Henry and Agboss as the only options? Would Eckersley have to return to the middle? Who am I forgetting? I worry about Osorio in that regard as well. But at least there, there are a couple options - Urrutti? Bekker? I think you are correct about the CB situation. Was thinking about that myself. An injury to Caldwell would be devastating. After the 3 you named - Bloom? Michael Thomas? We saw a glimpse of what that would be like vs. Roma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearcatSA Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 I think you are correct about the CB situation. Was thinking about that myself. An injury to Caldwell would be devastating. Just like an injury to Frings.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 Plata picked up a goal & 2 assists yesterday as he continues to play regularly for the #1 team in the league. Good thing that Mariner got rid of him immediately last year when TFC was the worst team in the league, because obviously being good enough to play regularly for the best team in the league, he would be of no use to the worst team in the league. Thanks Paul. And what did they get in return for Plata? as far as i can tell nothing. Though i thought that he was bit selfish at times, I definitely thought that Plata was worth retaining and should have been retained. Maybe not a starter but he is the kind of sub that every club could use. The perfect description of the kind of guy who comes in late in the game when legs are tired and creates havoc. A lot players that they let go yielded nothing in return and might be the more bothersome part. I am not saying that you could turned gems into gold here but surely they should have gotten more than they got in return for players like: Johnson, Plata and Silva. In some of these cases (eg.: Johnson) i am ok with making changes if you intend to upgrade at his position or elsewhere. But how do you upgrade when you get nothing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackdude Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 And what did they get in return for Plata? as far as i can tell nothing. Though i thought that he was bit selfish at times, I definitely thought that Plata was worth retaining and should have been retained. Maybe not a starter but he is the kind of sub that every club could use. The perfect description of the kind of guy who comes in late in the game when legs are tired and creates havoc. 2nd round of the SuperDraft, so yes, nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted September 2, 2013 Share Posted September 2, 2013 A lot players that they let go yielded nothing in return and might be the more bothersome part. I am not saying that you could turned gems into gold here but surely they should have gotten more than they got in return for players like: Johnson, Plata and Silva. In some of these cases (eg.: Johnson) i am ok with making changes if you intend to upgrade at his position or elsewhere. But how do you upgrade when you get nothing in return. Well, for Johnson & Kocic they got Bendik and a 1st round pick they turned into a ton of allocation money and Welshman. Johnson and Kocic for Bendik alone may have been a good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Well, for Johnson & Kocic they got Bendik and a 1st round pick they turned into a ton of allocation money and Welshman. Johnson and Kocic for Bendik alone may have been a good deal. hindsight... Payne would have been lynched if RJ and Kocic was traded just for Bendik, who was a complete unknown prior to coming to Toronto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Crampton Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 Well, for Johnson & Kocic they got Bendik and a 1st round pick they turned into a ton of allocation money and Welshman. Johnson and Kocic for Bendik alone may have been a good deal. That trade got Portland's third overall pick which turned into Bekker, no? We had the first overall pick as our natural 1st rounder. Not a bad trade, just maybe not the best use of the third pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 ^ Can't remember if Portland's was the 3rd or 4th. I know they swapped the 1st overall for NE's first, which was either 3rd or 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 That trade got Portland's third overall pick which turned into Bekker, no? We had the first overall pick as our natural 1st rounder. Not a bad trade, just maybe not the best use of the third pick. let's not give up on Bekker yet. some first rounders, even early picks end up needing few years to mature into first teamers in MLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 That trade got Portland's third overall pick which turned into Bekker, no? We had the first overall pick as our natural 1st rounder. Not a bad trade, just maybe not the best use of the third pick. let's not give up on Bekker yet. some first rounders, even early picks end up needing few years to mature into first teamers in MLS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.