June 18, Canada v Italy, POST-Match [R]

[loyola]

Will Johnson will be available for 2007 but if Alberto coach the team I don,t think we'll see him . I agree that he'll be quite good in a few years.

[Cheeta]

Well, I screwed up big time and missed the match. Didn't even tape it so I'll be bugging redhat for a copy from his taping. But it reads like a disaster.

Great.

Anywho.. I've read it mention here a question mark about our players fitness. To tell you honestly, and I may have mentioned this already, I think more than a bit of our problem was the lads fitness. Honestly. It's always a worry with the number of games they have to play in such a short period.

I mean really. The legs just don't come back do they? And those tired legs, well they just won't co-operate when it comes to ball placement, acceleration and so on. From Syria on the lads just got more hesitant and the lack of any attempt of a counter against Colombia I'm quite sure wasn't part of Mitchell's plan. He of all people must know how teams will play you differently if they know you're not serious about countering. Even once in a while.

Too slow on the ball? For sure. Poor support to the ball carrier? For the majority, no dought. Think that's all part of a footballers maturing and we shouldn't be too surprised that others are a bit ahead of us at this level. Disappointed absolutely. But not especially surprised.

Sure could tell out there who was further ahead of who on the squad couldn't you. And some pretty good players get lost on crap teams. Overextend themselves or what have you. Think this years addition was a classic example of that occuring. I think we may just find a couple of these lads on the senior squad pretty soon, and justifably so.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Okay, I've licked my wounds and am now looking toward 2007. Of those who played on this year's team, who will be eligible for 2007? Edgar and Peters, right? Who else? Bergovic? Young DeGuzman, if he chooses to play for us? We could have a stellar midfield with these 3 players forming the core. And they'll only be heaps better in two year's time. Peter has the goods; now he needs to learn the game, including passing and defensive play.

I think we took a tiny step forward with this team. (Very tiny, but it was a forward step all the same.)

who else is eligible? Will Johnson? The kids gonna be dynamite in a few years.

You are correct Beaver. All of Edgar, Peters, Begovic, Deguzman Jr., and Johnson are all available as is Andrea Lombardo. Technically, young Bourgault is also eligible to return. He was a late replacement for Britner and did not see any action, but was a standout in the Italy tournament and in U17 qualifying. He is a year younger than the others. Mike D'Agostino was on the team for qualifying, but not for the finals and is also eligible.

Others with overseas experience include Kerr McLeod who was in Holland with Vitesse Arnhem, but is back in Saskatchewan now, Manny Gomez who is at River Plate and Kent O'Conner who is in Germany with 1860 Munich (IIRC).

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by The Beaver

Okay, I've licked my wounds and am now looking toward 2007. Of those who played on this year's team, who will be eligible for 2007? Edgar and Peters, right? Who else? Bergovic? Young DeGuzman, if he chooses to play for us? We could have a stellar midfield with these 3 players forming the core. And they'll only be heaps better in two year's time. Peter has the goods; now he needs to learn the game, including passing and defensive play.

I think we took a tiny step forward with this team. (Very tiny, but it was a forward step all the same.)

who else is eligible? Will Johnson? The kids gonna be dynamite in a few years.

You are correct Beaver. All of Edgar, Peters, Begovic, Deguzman Jr., and Johnson are all available as is Andrea Lombardo. Technically, young Bourgault is also eligible to return. He was a late replacement for Britner and did not see any action, but was a standout in the Italy tournament and in U17 qualifying. He is a year younger than the others. Mike D'Agostino was on the team for qualifying, but not for the finals and is also eligible.

Others with overseas experience include Kerr McLeod who was in Holland with Vitesse Arnhem, but is back in Saskatchewan now, Manny Gomez who is at River Plate and Kent O'Conner who is in Germany with 1860 Munich (IIRC).

[BusanBhoy]

When can we expect the 07 team to begin to take shape? Will camps and the like begin this year (as I would hope) or will we be throwing together in December 06? Anyone know a realistic timeline for CSA plans, budget etc?

[BusanBhoy]

When can we expect the 07 team to begin to take shape? Will camps and the like begin this year (as I would hope) or will we be throwing together in December 06? Anyone know a realistic timeline for CSA plans, budget etc?

[youllneverwalkalone]

Add to the 2007 list:

Kerek, Lensky, Lammie, Maras, Pereira, Abusabal, Seminara

[youllneverwalkalone]

Add to the 2007 list:

Kerek, Lensky, Lammie, Maras, Pereira, Abusabal, Seminara

[DJT]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

it is interesting and suprising to me that the Italian fans such as you, DJT and Gian-luca, to name but a few, among the our Voyageur colleagues and friends have come out in such unusual blindness today:)).

I don't know about the others, but what have I said in blindness? I've barely posted anything in this thread! In fact, I've barely read any of it.

[matthew]

I was at a wedding and just watched the game. I don't have the stomach to read the whole thread.

I got flamed for it early, but I'll say it again, Edgar doesn't look like a d-mid to me. He rarely goes to ground to win a ball (unless it's a 50-50 ball that's that's up for grabs). He bodies people and pokes for the ball and doesn't do a terrible job. He's similar to DeGuzman in the way he challenges for balls, except he's about a foot taller than DeGuzman. Everyone was bemoaning the 'dive' by the Colombian, but Edgar challenging for balls at the edge of the area is a free kick waiting to happen. I think he's a fantastic talent. His composure and balls skills, esp for his size at 17 are a great hope, but I thought he was out of position.

Today Italy held the ball for the first 30. I think the stat was 65% Colombia had 75%. That's astronomical. But a 4-5-1 with no d-mids, who's winning the ball? Who's making the supporting runs in the middle? Gyaki tried to get forward more and didn't seem to link well with the midfield and that leaves whoever gets the loose ball few options. Italy basically tried to take away the wings and just kept turning the ball over. Did Peters touch the ball in the first 30? He needs to want it more too, but if we can't involve our most dangerous player for a third of the game we've got worries.

What really pains me is that i think this team had a chance to be respectable at this tourney. Wagenaar struggled in two of the three games (though I'm not sure he was really at fault on any of the goals against Italy). I thought we missed Uccello. I hope Kassaye was injured. Peetoom did very well defensively in the first two games (well there were some shaky moments against Syria I thought), but he wasn't great defensively today (thought Haineault struggled for the first time in a game I've seen and I rate him higher than Kassaye, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered).

How did Syria beat Italy? Italy's defense is #*$%#ing terrible. No disrespect to Will Johnson, who is a great hard-worker with obvious skills, but he's 17 and didn't really trouble Syria or Colombia. He torched those guys. Had we had a ref, Italy would have been down to 9 or 10 men. Can you imagine what Al Haj did? Italy pulled the captain Canini for the Canada game and I thought Nocerino was very strong. Coda wasn't as good as I expected but Mazoratti was decent.

The way we played we didn't deserve to come out of any group, but to fail to come out of this group is particularly depressing. It was there for us. If the US doesn't put 4 or 5 up on Italy I'll be surprised. It'll take an early goal and the US hasn't been able to finish much, but I think their attacking options will be too much.

cheers,

matthew

[An Observer]

I will throw in my two cents worth (been travelling so haven't had a chance to post and I have only skimmed the comments here, some of which I agree with and others I don't).

My general comments.

ATTACKING - we collectively lack the ability to play without the ball. Most players (with a few exceptions) do not put themselves into situations to receive and pass the ball. And when they do, they don't have the first touch to make the necessary space to pass it again, or the vision to make the quick first pass (the second part of course if compounded by the first). For this reason, we rarely kept possession for more than 3 or 4 passes and you cannot beat anyone at this level doing that. This trait was particularly bad in the central midfield and defense but more analysis on that when I review each player. We almost never moved the ball out of defense especially the center, and almost never up the middle. It was all long ball or up the wings which was far to one dimensional to cause any team a problem.

DEFENDING - we gave way too much space to the opposing attacking players, allowed them to turn too easily, and gave them so much time it was easy for the opposing side to make the necessary pass. We rarely pushed up on the man when they had the ball with their back to the goal. We close down slowly and poorly (ie. when we did it, we never eliminated a passing alley and forced them to move the ball where we wanted them to move it). In contrast, when we had the ball, we were closed down immediately. Of course, when you give up so much possession, you spend the game running around and get tired so it has an effect on your ability to defend. They are not mutually exclusive. Also, its difficult mentally (and positionally) to defend all game and then switch into attack mode when you do get the ball.

Wagenaar - I thought he was pretty solid. Huge gaff against the Syrians but also made a few saves. The goals after that really cannot be attributed to him. Needs to improve his distribution of the ball as it can be a bit erratic. But overall, I thought he was solid. Hopefully, a European team will take a look at him.

Ledgerwood - Definitely one of our better players. Anticipates well on defense, and made a number of interceptions of passes. Can cross the ball, has speed, and generally is well positioned. Needs to improve his overall strength (as he is a bit small and slight) and his one on one defense (which is probably linked with his strength). Also, needs to improve his vision on passing....almost always went up the wing and never into the center to Edgar (but that may have been the game plan).

Peetom - Not up to this level. Cannot play with the ball at his feat and for this reason it was impossible for us to play the ball out of the back which meant we were handicapped. Not sure why Kassaye was not given a go here as he is better with the ball. His defending was not great either. He started to improve as the tournament went on but still not close enough to his marker and rarely made an interception or a tackle. His anticipation was poor. Overall, seriously weakened the team.

Haineault - great in the air, seems a good defender. Always tight on his man, and would get his foot in when the player received the ball or tried to turn. As we never played the ball out of the back, its unclear about his distribution skills but overall was impressed. Hopefully, he gets with a Euro side and continues to improve. I think he has the ability to become a solid central defender if he can get the necessary schooling in Europe.

Ramalho - Terrible. Poor defender, poor passer, poor going forward. He seems to have speed but had no poise on the ball. Rarely read the game well and intercepted the ball and allowed the player to have way too much space (considering his speed to recover as well). Always seemed to play a bit more intense in the second half. It is possible that he has the skills as their was some flashes of it. But he needs to be more intense.

Peters - Unbelievable speed and when he pushes the ball by someone you can see why Man U and Chelsea were intersted. His crossing was poor (especially compared to the qualifiers). And he needs to improve his first touch which is a big let down and basically means he cannot give and return the ball with any consistency. More importantly, he needs to learn how to play football both offensively and defensively. Too many times he was wondering around the pitch or running away from Ledgerwood when he had the ball. This being said, there is a real upside with him. Hopefully, he will improve all these aspects with Ipswich over the next two years and be a reall threat in 2007.

Edgar - to me the revelation of the tournament, and he was playing out of position. Excellent defender. He was all over anyone that came into the middle. Disrupted movements, won the ball, and when he won it, didn't panic with it. He can also pass. He made a few rash tackles close to the box which is something he will need to improve, and I am not sure whether it was his play positionally or the players with the ball, but rarely did he recieve the ball in the center in attack. Nevertheless, he was heads and shoulders a better player than Hume or Hutchinson were at this age in Argentina. I think he and Haineault maybe our answer to our central D problems in the future.

Rosenland - out of his depth. Poor going forward, and poor defending. When he received the ball, he usually lost it. Lingered way to long on it before passing and was usually dispossed. As he never was given space, he did not have the ability to make it for himself so he could play one of his long passes that he did in qualifying. As a defender, he gave way too much space. When you compare him with Edgar it was amazing the difference. The player almost always turned on him or was already turned when receiving the ball, and even then Rosenland just stood two to three yards off of him (which allowed the guy just to move the ball as he chose). An extremely weak link in the central midfield.

Gyaki - i was one who was not overly impressed with him in qualifying. Sure he can finish and he runs all over the place but he cannot retain possession and he is too slow (you can't teach speed). And he suffers the same problem as Rosenland on defense. Was out of his depth when he had to play against high calibre opposition in my opinion. Sure, he may have a professional contract, but I cannot see him playing in the premiership and the championship or League 1 seems more realistic.

De Jong - I thought he was ok and the jury is still out on him. rarely did we play the ball up the left side which I think was more to do with Ramallo then him....and as we never played it up the middle we usually only went up the right or punted it to Johnson/Lombardo. He seemed to be quick, could pass and could take and receive a pass, and he was an ok defender for a winger. Would like to see more of him but do to our team tactics, he was rarely involved.

Johnson - was impressed when he played forward. He was by far the best player running with the ball as he rarely lost it. Created opportunities for himself and I think has better vision than we think as he certainly made a few telling passes in the 2nd half of the Italy match. I think before that it was more to do with the lack of support than his lack of vision. He also knows how to draw fouls (and fall) which is extremely important at this level (whether you like it or not). He can't defend and should never have been put in the middle against Colombia. That was a coaching error though and not his fault. Plus the guy is only 17.

Lombardo - seemed a bit lost and did put himself in off side positions quite a bit. also, does not hold the ball up well. But he had no support against Colombia and was only on for a few minutes against Italy. Was no worse than Hume showed in Argentina at this age so the jury is still out until next time for him.

Overall, with five 17/18s (and 3 of them were amongst our best players) returning plus Bourgault who did not play, the future of the next side is bright if we can add a few players and get De Guzman as we really need someone in the middle who we can build our offense through. This was sorely lacking with this side....and personally, I think if you replaced Rosenland with De Guzman (or someone who could hold onto the ball in the middle) that would have made a huge difference even if you still had to play Peetom, Ramallo and Gyaki.

[Ivan]

I think An Observer makes a great point in his Edgar paragraph, comparing Hume & Hutch's contributions in Argentina to the contributions of the 87s in this tourney. Really, as underagers Hume was a part-timer starting some games, off the bench in others. Hutch started most games, but was not influential. In UAE, these two carried us. In Holland, Edgar, Johnson & Peters were three of our main contributers.

[sj]

the downfall of soccer in Canada is the boring system that we play

its does not matter what players we select we always end up playing the same way against most opposition

Is it still go to be the system of choice

are we going to see that kind of tactics again in 2007

we have 2 yrs to change it

Is the CSA more intersested in have a stadium built that building an

entertaining soccer team.

this team did not deserve to get out of the first round due to the use of negative approach to the game

look like the preparation was not enough or it was left too late to correct instead of masking out deficiencies.

the focus has to be for 2007.

and the preparation has to be now.

a systematic schedule has to be in place

use the francophone game to test our playing ability and also the paaam games if it within the preparation period.

the buildup to any tournament and the preparation aspect of it is what make a team better in the long run.

unfortunately because of a lack of that most of what we have seen on the pitch has to be scrapped.

we have shown more negative stuff than positive stuff on the field

and imagine if we had not qualified for that tournament in what kind of shape this team would have been without those so called preparation.

either the preparation did not do its going or it was mainly by design.

a design that is outdated and near to go to the scrap yard first for us to improve as a soccer nation.

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Add to the 2007 list:

Kerek, Lensky, Lammie, Maras, Pereira, Abusabal, Seminara

I am by no means an expert, but if I may makes comments based on what I have read:

Kerek, Lensky, Lammie and Seminara are 88s, one year younger. Lammie is definately a prospect as is Lensky, although he has yet to commit to Canada. Kerek, who plays in Germany with Freiberg, played the first game of U17 qualifying against Honduras, then seemed to lose his place to Maras, an 89 who plays for Kaiserslautern. Seminara, who plays in Italy, was called for the U17 Italian tournament, played the first half of the first game and never saw the field again nor was he called for qualifying. Either he was hurt, or not up to standard.

Abusabal, I believe an 89, (is he the guy in Peru?) was called for one camp/tournament and has not been called since. Maras and Perreira, who will have two years at Porto under his belt by then are definately prospects. However, as Alberto pointed out before the U20 WC, we put ourselves at a disadvantage when we use younger players as our mainstays. Looks like he was right.

As far as 88s are concerned, watch for Christian Nunez, a key injury just before the qualifying tournament, as well as Zach Kaltoff, also injured just before the tourney, as backup keeper to Begovic. Heck, might as well add Bruno Napoleao, also injured, and according to some Alberta posters, the best 88 from the Alberta crop.

As for other 89s, Nana Attakora and Marcus Haber started for our U17 in qualifying.

Take this for what it is worth, but hope it helps.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Natesta

We were absolutely dominated for about 240 minutes of our games in this tournament.

90 x 3 = 270, we were dominated for 240 minutes of those. Math much?

Yes I can count thank you, I just can't believe anyone in their right mind could possibly think that we were dominated by Syria at all, let alone for 60 minutes. I thought the more likely explanation was that someone thought we played four matches - unlikley in the extreme, but still more likely than the belief that we got dominated by Syria for 60 minutes.

[canso]

Plenty of reasons to be happy chiluns. It's summer, the livin is easy, and I can't speak for the rest of the ****ry, but there's a female fashion trend I'm appreciatin here involving white pants and black thongs. Hoooo doggy!

History may be a winter sport but beer and fantasy are pure summer activities. Spent some time drinkin and thinkin and I like the way things are shaping up for the future. More talent in the right places on this team than any other I've seen in the Maple Leaf.

Gonna be a great team to watch in 007 with Edgar leading them out, JP unstoppable, Wee Willie Johnson terrorizing defences and a vociferous home support urging them on to the finals! The Olympics year after seem entirely possible with Ledgerwood and Rosenlund maturing overseas and Gyaki rounding out his game, onward to the Hex with Hutch and Hume, Larry and DeGuz and then...I Dream of Africa!

The future is so bright I gotta wear shades![8D]

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

Johnson had a good tournament. Today he had two clear breakaways, the thwarting of both which should have clearly resulted in red cards not awarded by that terrible Uruguayan referee. Sure Italy had the better performance today, but with breaks from the ref, Canada could have come back instead of the rout we found ourselves in (it is interesting and suprising to me that the Italian fans such as you, DJT and Gian-luca, to name but a few, among the our Voyageur colleagues and friends have come out in such unusual blindness today:)).

I see the smilie, but I still don't understand the comment either, particularly as I though Johnson was fantastic today & would agree (and already stated) that we got shafted by the Ref, as you state above. Does that make you blind as well? []

[canso]

The Final Review from FIFA:

Canada coach Dale Mitchell led his team all the way to the quarter-finals at UAE 2003, but he was under no illusions that the Canadians faced a tall order in reproducing that fantastic championship run… and the order ultimately proved too tall. Mitchell's game-plan was to get three points on the board quickly and try to build confidence and momentum within the team, but when Syria held firm for a draw in the opener, Canada were left with too much to do against Colombia and Italy.

Three points against the Italians would have been enough to keep the Canucks alive and though Mitchell went for it by taking the game to Italy, they paid a hefty price in a 4-1 defeat. Mitchell will still be around when Canada hosts the FIFA World Youth Championship in 2007, as will what he calls his "nucleus of great leaders" in Jaime Peters, Will Johnson and David Edgar, though Nik Ledgerwood - Mitchell's pick of the bunch at Netherlands 2005 - will be ineligible through age. The coach has vowed to work hard to make Canada a force to be reckoned with when they get on home turf in two years' time.

[lefoot]

player selection aside, seriously its about tactics and approach to the game! a negative approach is both boring to watch, and must totally suck to play on the international stage. ball chasing and sitting back is a ticking time bomb...i would rather play loose like syria and lose than play so tactically timid. its just straight up boring! and yes! our uniforms do suck! all the other countries have adidas kits that were personalized to each nation. they just throw a cheap patch and number on the canadian jersey and thats all we get!!! adidas canada need to step up and get some design skills for our kit as a unique item.

[imox77]

quote:Originally posted by Gordon

5) Our NCAA players may develop but are behind the Europeans in terms of playing the game. The point about the US NCAA players is well made, but ignores the fact that the US players were all at Bradenton for 3-4 years where as ours were in less intensive environments and certainly not playing together.

12 out of our 21 players on the USA WYC team are from the NCAA's and only 2 of them are from Bradenton. Im not sure where you get your info but its wrong and I think you are the one that always gets our Bradenton setup wrong

I still think one of the major keys for Canada is a Bradenton style setup. We started ours is 1999 only taking in 20 players a semester and 5 years later we are up to 40 players. The quality of players it has produced and is continuing to produce is so important to soccer in this country. Landon Donovan, Damarcus Beasley, Oguchi Onyewu, DJ Countess, Bobby Convey, Chad Marshall, Eddie Johnson, Jonathan Spector, Eddie Gaven, Danny Szetela, Nathan Sturgis, Freddy Adu and many others in MLS and in the NCAA's

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I see the smilie, but I still don't understand the comment either, particularly as I though Johnson was fantastic today & would agree (and already stated) that we got shafted by the Ref, as you state above. Does that make you blind as well? []

"Gian-LucaToronto-ishCanada2574 Posts Posted - 06/18/2005 : 10:18:58

quote: Originally posted by Free kickquote: Originally posted by Gian-LucaCraig Forrest was a little too anti-Italian for my liking, At one point he states something to the effect that that Italians have diving down to an art!. What's with that! Have any evidence Craig? Well they did make a meal out of a lot of the fouls in this game....though having said that they were all probably fouls.It's just that if you are going to accuse the opposition of dirty play on a play that was actually quite innocent (and no Canadians got upset about it) it smacks of bias. I'm all in favour of cheering for Canada in the broadcast booth (which Gerry Dobson never does, he seems to want us to lose) but not to the extent where we start falsely accusing the opposition of foul play to the point where we start mistaking their foot for their shoulder!"

quote:Originally posted by DJT

I don't know about the others, but what have I said in blindness? I've barely posted anything in this thread! In fact, I've barely read any of it.

"DJTTorontoCanada3189 Posts Posted - 06/18/2005 : 09:58:51

quote: Originally posted by Massive AttackItaly's coach was celebrating because the result will be good enough to get them into the next round. Italy's goal difference is now 0, which puts them ahead of Chile and most likely the eventual 3rd place team from Group A. Yup, they knew exactly what they had to do. As I posted in the other thread, all they need now is for Brazil to beat South Korea. But I was also puzzled at their reaction at first because I thought their chances of advancing were a lot slimmer than they actually are.quote: Originally posted by Massive AttackAs for the game overall, I think we need to start facing the fact that we simply aren't as good as we like to believe. I agree, but I didn't really believe that as much as many people apparently did. I'm still disappointed, especially about this match, but probably not as much as most people because of my lower expectations."

--------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, it was just a little gentle dig, and I didn't mean to lump you all in the same category (ie: I never said you were anti-Johnson, just that you tend to take a low-level look at Italy, where you wouldn't if a canadian team were playing a team from, say, Honduras). There seems to be a subtle acceptance of Italy and what they do flavouring your posts, but I think that just doesn't extend to Italianlophiles like you guys. I often see the same sort of tendency from the Anglophiles (or other types of -philes) that post on this site as well:).

I think that the ref was biased, as I think there is a sense amongst Mediteranean and South American referees that teams from their respective nations are proper footballers and should generally be favored in their ref decisions. This was clearly the case in this match, the Uruguayan ref clearly favored Italy. Again, this may not have ultimately decided the match and Italy performed much better, but it snuffed out any chance of a come-back. Why do the Italioanophiles not rail against the ref like they did when the calls "went against Italy" at the last World Cup?

In addition, I think the Italian players, especially at the back were playing moderately dirty, shirt pulling and pushing to an unacceptable degree through much of the match, not just the two pullings down of Johnson on breakaways that should have both resulted in red cards (and I know GL that you did mention that Peters and Johnson were understandably upset about the last breakway call). Again little about that (altho, I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill).

[fishman]

The constant ranting and raving about the CSA, its coaches, or the players that represent the country do little or nothing to effect any change.

Realize this: the most important coaches in the sport are not employed by the CSA, the provincial associations, professional clubs, or universities / colleges.

The coaches that have the greatest impact on the game, and how it will be played in the years to come, are at the grassroots level. We rely on parents, primarily, to teach our players, and as unfair as this comment is, most of those volunteers do not have a playing background. How easily can technique be taught, or problems corrected, when the coach is unsure of how the game is supposed to look?

Maybe, just maybe, if half of the pundits that regularly post on this forum signed up to coach the game to younger players, the level might improve. That is assuming that those that profess to know how the game should be played (and coached) have actually done either of those things...

If you want to improve the quality of Canadian players, improve the quality of coaching that they receive. And de-emphasize winning at a young age...that issue all by itself helps to create the "ugly" soccer so many of you talk about. I could go on and on about the monster that is youth soccer...but I won't.

[Free kick]

Beachesl,

In the case of Forrest and his comment about the diving. I was concerned with comment: " The Italians have diving down to science".

But why single out Italian for that? and not the Syrians, or Colombians etc . Also, what evidence is there that diving is anymore synomous with Italians than anyone else. From his playing days, how often has Forrest played agsinst clubs or national sides from Italy?

Oddly, Forrest made those comments twice in the game. yet, minutes after he made those comments the second time, It was Will Johnson who made one of the worst dives in the box by a canadian player that I have ever seen.

[strobe_z]

quote:Originally posted by sj

no I am soccer beast

but that tells you one thing

there is more like him in this country

people who can't use punctuation or paragraphs?

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by beachesl

"

In addition, I think the Italian players, especially at the back were playing moderately dirty, shirt pulling and pushing to an unacceptable degree through much of the match, not just the two pullings down of Johnson on breakaways that should have both resulted in red cards (and I know GL that you did mention that Peters and Johnson were understandably upset about the last breakway call). Again little about that (altho, I don't want to make a mountain out of a mole hill).

But our own players were guilty of shirt-pulling as well - they just didn't do it as effectively. Check out Petoom on the final goal by Italy - the least he could have done with the shirt-pulling was to stop the guy's progress!