June 18, Canada v Italy, POST-Match [R]

[Jarrek]

quote:Originally posted by SeanKeay

And he loves it when we lose so he can rub our faces in it.

I love it when we lose?

If I wasn't a CNT fan I wouldn't be here or in Kingston last year.

GL, did you see the US play in the WYC? Yes they had a lot of skill but also showed a lot of grit and determination.

I saw none of that in the last two games we played.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

...

Craig Forrest was a little too anti-Italian for my liking, going so far as to accuse one Italian player of a flagrant foul by leaving his foot in against Ledgerwood when Ledgerwood's foot actually connected with the guys shoulder. ...

The Italian ran through Nik after Nik played the ball. It was a foul.

[marcl_19]

Ok i was at the game and had GREAT SEATS in the 1st row near mid field. Impressions on the game: We can't play defence. The Italians were never challanged when they had the ball they were givin lots of space and took atvantage, especially in the middle of the field...they were able to exploit our lack of marking on the wings as well with crosses coming in towards their target man pelle who really impressed me. It seemed like the 1st half possesion was about 75% in favour of italy. Our passing was terrible in the 1st half...The second half was pretty good tho and it turned into an exciting game until the end.

Players that impressed me:

Gyaki - He runs all over the place and he was in on most of the offensive chances...really hooked up well as the withdrawn striker with Johnson.

Johnson - A real threat when we was actually given service.

Peters(with the ball) - fast as hell, and can do lots with the ball. Pretty good crosses too.

Ledgerwood - Canada's best player all round i think. Had a scoring chance and gave some good service up the field. Also prolly the best tackler as no one else was really up to doing anything to the ball carrier once they got sort of close. Edgar and Rosenlund seemed to the the only others that were aggresive defensively. (on a side note, i met Rosenlund's grandfather before the game. Real nice guy. He said there were about 9 family members at the game. I know Ledgerwood's parents were there for sure they were sittin near us)

De Jong - Real classy goal on a free kick, i just about lost my mind (i xdid lose my voice) when that goal went in. I felt bad for him after the game as you could really see how hurt he was about getting knocked out of the tourny, but i guess that's life.

Wagenaar - Kept us in the game as well he could....made a couple big saves.

Players that dissapointed me:

Peters(defensively)- just stood around...and he would still be standin around after canada got possesion back so he was pretty much out of the play. He wasnt the only one ot be faulted on that tho. I remember on a few occasions Ledgerwood made a nice tackle and had nothing to pass too b/c of everyone just watching.

Peetoom - Seemed like a liability all game. Dont remember him making any significant tackles. seem to remember commenting on him being out of position a few times.

The team defence - just gave up too much space in the middle.

One other thing that i thought was key was the fact that Italy prolly won the 1st touch on goalkicks and such about 80% of the time. We really turned it on at the end (albeit it was a bit too late) when Lombardo came on (he also impressed me)

The ref was RIDICULOUS. Not as bad at the mexican at the honduras game BUT he was pretty damn awful. Called more fouls on dives than when the player was actually fouled (you should have heard this italian lady behind me, she called for a red card everytime there was a foul, even if it was like holding or somthing like that)

Anyways, that's all i can squeeze iout rite now since i am a busy man and the pub awaits!

One last thing tho, i was suprised to see so many canadians there. It seemed like there were almost as many Canadians as there were Italians. All in all i had a blast, except for the final score. This was my 1st national team game and i can't wait to see another...These guys can play! I heard someone say once i think that this is considered the next best tourny, competition-wise after the world cup/euro cup and i can definitly attest to that. Can't wait to see you guys in 2007!

[pstain]

I'm just wondering if our youth players actually watch soccer? I mean basketball players look up to Michael Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, etc. and hockey players look up to Mario, Wayne, etc. but do these kids actually look up to any soccer players?

I think coaches should encourage young players to watch more club soccer so that they can imitate players like Thierry Henry, Shevchenko, Ronaldinho, etc. I mean just look at the other young players in the WYC. Quincy said that he imitates Henry and that he was one of his favourite players even before joining Arsenal. And when you watch him play he clearly is like Henry. Or Senderos, who hangs posters of his favourite players on the wall. I mean if these young players have idols to look up to and try and imitate them then they can strive to learn better skills.

And with Ryan Giaki, I think he has a lot of determination but lacks BALL skills. I think he should develop into a Freddie Ljungberg or Demarcus Beasley type player since he's known for scoring goals.

[Guest Ed]

Regardless. I think this team has some players with potential. I would give Dale 2 more years to run this U20 team and put together something as host nation.

I would then have him run the men's side.

In the meantime, I would rip up that tentative Gold Cup roster, don't bother with the career A-League players and bring some of these boys up for their first senior team experience. Ledgerwood, Gyaki and Edgar might as well get playing together now at a high level as they will be core players for 2008. Johnson is going to be a player but he, along with Peters, needs some seasoning.

[Bubbachuck89]

who blamed the lack of funding for the usa being better than canada? and how much does the csa approximately spend if anyone knows

[Robert]

quote:Originally posted by BusanBhoy

Robert, I understand what your saying, but if we have no comp matches before kickoff 07, it will be our own fault. There are numerous (fiercly contested) warm up tournys in a cup year. Off my head - there is a winter 8 team event in Qutar, at least one in SE asia (malasia or thai) and Two in Korea just two months before the event. Thats at least 9 opponets (usually already qualified) with which to test ourself (if fact the first korea tourny had us, argentina and egypt (all group d) facing each other. If we are not prepared from a matches standpoint it will be the programs fault and no other.

Isn't Japan the luckiest, or maybe they just pay more. Two lousy draws and now they get to play Marocco in the round of 16.[xx(] I wonder what kind of program Marocco has had going for them?

You're right. Time again, the quality of our program is reflected in our results. However, those in charge never feel they are at fault, and as they live in Canada nobody holds them accountable. They get away with it because this country has no soccer supporters (which is evident everytime you look at the stands when one of our games is televised, like those little Dutch stadiums look pretty damn empty when we're playing). The few supporters we have on this board, maybe 100 active Voyageurs, are more pissed at me than they are at the leaders of our national association. Go figure. It's my fault Canada sucks at anything beyond recreational soccer. How F-ing Canadian! At least you have a senior program to console you with today. I remember when Guus and the Bhoys came to the Gold Cup and let us win. Shouldda heard people here. But that's what this board is for, TALK. Nevermind, that Korea went on to the semi-finals of the World Cup. The BABYFACE ASSASSIN sinking the Italians will live in my memory forever. However, I've got the u15 girls program to look foreward to. No disrespect ladies. How could FIFA have ever entrusted Kevan Pipe with 2007. Personally, I find being being a Canadian soccer fan is great. No national league, it's tough getting players over from europe to play important game, a bunch of bungling idiots who don't know how to use $35 million. It's the greatest soccer soap opera on earth. And we don't even play that much soccer.

Cheers.

[ditty]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

The boulder has rolled back down the hill.

Players like Gyaki are what is wrong with Canadian soccer: all fitness no skill. He looks like a terrier in a game of keep away. Never really realizing that he is never meant to get the ball and that those keeping it away are of a skill level that he will never comprehend. He may be the best nicest person on earth, but I suggest that he doesn't rely on soccer as a means of income.

Hmmm. Let's see, the guy scores all our goals in qualifying, he's a ball winner who still manages get in the penalty box, he can distribute.......

Like Ed said, he's already making an income from soccer so I guess he's proved you wrong.

If you're waiting for a Zinedine Zidane to grace the Canadian midfield, you might be waiting a while.

[Bubbachuck89]

35 million?????????????????

[Bubbachuck89]

jeez if Syria had that money they would have been world champs by now [:0]

[Ivan]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

Regardless. I think this team has some players with potential. I would give Dale 2 more years to run this U20 team and put together something as host nation.

I would then have him run the men's side.

In the meantime, I would rip up that tentative Gold Cup roster, don't bother with the career A-League players and bring some of these boys up for their first senior team experience. Ledgerwood, Gyaki and Edgar might as well get playing together now at a high level as they will be core players for 2008. Johnson is going to be a player but he, along with Peters, needs some seasoning.

Agreed. I would add Hainault to your list as well. I thought he played his heart out throughout the tourney and can be a devastating tackler. He has to find a club, however, to continue his development.

If Peters can play on the full national team, Ledgerwood, Gyaki and Edgar should be there as well, with Johnson & Hainault not far behind.

In defence of Gyaki, I thought he looked tired today. In praise, he leaves it all on the field.

At least I feel better about our centreback position for 2010 - Edgar & Hainault. Dejong & Rosenlund have talent, but Rosenlund has to get to a higher level like Josh Simpson had to.

I will end my post with a comment from a buddy of mine who is just getting into watching soccer and the Canadian Nats "Colombia and Italy just seemed to want the ball more".

[Kye]

Peetoom absolutly stunk up the joint, poor marking slow to react and has no ball skill whatsoever and gave the ball away in horrendous spots many times in the first half.

Of all the players on team Canada Legerwood impressed me the most. I think hes an absolute gem. Posses the 5 attributs that I think is most important in a soccer player. 1)Speed(he can fly with and without the ball), 2)Composure with the ball, 3)Vision (Reads the game better then anyone on the U20 team imo). 4)Touch (has one of the best first touches iv seen of a player his age. 5)work ethic(goes all out). Nik should defienetly be on the gold cup squad this summer and take Peters place on the right side of midfield as first substitute. I see him in the Bundisliga sooner rather then later.

Dejong - May not be as fast or flashy as Peters but has much better distribution skills and far better defensivly. I think he will be a good player in the future.

Edgar - Very solid player, posses good vision, on the ball skills and can shoot and pass very well. I can't wait to see him in another 2 years.

Roselund - Great on the ball skill and hustle but lacks the vision and touch to take him to the next level imo.

Johnson's a great young player, great hustle and on the ball skills. Only complaint is that he could use his teammates a little more. Im sure that will come with time.

Peters has been criticised and I think some of the criticisim is valid. No one can deny that the kid possses tremendous speed and dribbling skills, but his vision and on the ground passing, touch and plain decision making is not there yet. I beleive if these areas are not adressed then he wont be a very effective player in the future.

Gyaki- I was expecting a lot more outta of him after all the hype he got. Turned the ball over way to much, slow at reading the play and his touch left a lot to be desired. I rember a play in this game where he had the ball in the middle of the pitch and he Dejong breaking to the left and he was too slow in making the decison to get Dejong the ball, by the time he was the Italian had already caught him and stripped him. I was impressed with his effort and defensive play though.

[lefoot]

I thought in general we just have that slight hesitation through the tourney. It seems to me if we instilled a more positive game plan than players wouldn't be hesitant on and off the ball. There was no snap in our passing, save a few moments in the first game. I really hate to see us sit and line up in front of our box, and consider that a system. Look at how Australia and US play. There just seems to be real purpose and drive to WIN...not just a numbers game where we hope to squeeze an opportunity or two and perhaps advance. The last team was much more entertaining...more direct...more willing to make quick sharp and dare I say...confident ball movement...which translates well when off the ball...I am sure the confidence just drained away. Some of these players seriously lacked any quick touches...its embarassing when they keep kicking the ball out of bounds or to no one. Also...those uniforms are horrible..we lack style!! We need a bit more jump...we look community league...with mitchell chomping gum standing around like a high school coach...and Peters to me really did disappoint. You can see the potential, but the lack of focus. Again I am sure its more the system than the players...as the confidence was just not there...They were intimidated by the Italians, and lost a lot of 50-50 opportunities...I would rather see more fouls in midfield..I thought roselund made an attempt to take control of midfield....and had a few nice moments...but he doesn't have the de guzman speed or ability to transition and make fast distribution...just thoughts!

[Paddy]

quote:

Gyaki's goals in qualifying were those of a skilled player. He's been signed to a pro contract because he's been shown a knack for scoring. He's probably making more than your sorry ass right now without even touching a ball yet as a pro so shove your advice on his choice of profession.

Ah, I love guys like you. I'd really like to see if you'd make those comments to my face. I'd bet not.

As for making more money than me, who cares? I don't equate my worth as a human being with how much money I make. I will say this though: I have played with more national and Olympic players than you. Domonic Mobilio, whom I greatly respect, and myself were both named to the same B.C. All Star team in High School - one of 11 awards given out. Also, I was offered a professional contract at 19 and turned it down, as I did not wish to pursue a professional career - I was enjoying traveling though Europe too much.

I am entitled to my opinion; as are you...just don't make it personal. My comments were directed at Gyaki and the CSA, not you.

[Paddy]

quote:

Thankfull Gyaki has ignored your poor advice and signed a two-year deal with Sheffield United's senior squad. Not bad for a player you think has no "talent".

Really...I was unaware that he had a time machine or was clairvoyant. Perhaps he played so poorly in anticipation of my comments and was waiting for the game to end before signing the contract that he brought with him to Holland. Which is it?

Usually your comments are much more astute (except when it comes to someone criticizing Italy, at which time you lose all objectivity).

quote:

But what do professional soccer clubs know about soccer anyway?

Ask Terry Dunfield. No disrespect to him, but he was signed by a big club and is now languishing in what is essentially the 4th division.

quote:

Funnily enough nobody was saying that when he scored 4 times in the qualifiers.

Well, at least one of the teams he scored against has been dually exposed in this tournament.

[lefoot]

I thought we just sucked today...just because a guy makes a couple nice runs we are ready to throw him into the national team...seriously there was a lack of chemistry out there...i would rather see johnson get red carded then have us accept such horrible officiating...we take it up the butt on calls at every level...and just whine and complain like weaklings...we really need to just get more dirty out there...and hainault has horrible feet..sorry its true!

[sj]

I think the whole CSA should be under review

we suck at the u17 level, olympiclevel, senoirlevel, u-20 level

same boring and uninspiring style.

that not one frustrate the opposition but also the fans.

Privatize the CSA so we can kick out the CEO if he cannot deliver the goods

wonder what kind of highlights they are going to take from this tournament to promote Canada 2007.

even Canadian that does not understand the game recognise that we play awful.

the one that does are not too keen about their kids playing for the national team as it reduce their market value.

this kind of soccer sabotage by the CSA has to stop.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Bubbachuck89

jeez if Syria had that money they would have been world champs by now [:0]

I found this great site for Syrian Soccer Supporters:

www.pissoff.sy

[Alberto]

Ok First I just want to say I am happy that Italy pulled it thru in the next rounds but not looking forward to the next round with the USA as the buck will stop there. The way they are playing I am not pleased with their proformance in the first round but not surprising result today.

Truly they both deserved to be elimated.

However I just want to add my comments about what I saw today and some other games about your Canadian team and some comments of the players.

As I indicated in previous post that Canada based on facts and stats which at times do not lie in these types of competition. The experience of players in match games far succeed players who watch games from a bench, and age how much can you ask of one who is truly to young and fragile in weight and height and no discipline.

You must start there to look at the problems.

First of all. ATTACKING SKILLS -- There was no discipline of unity as a team to work the ball forward to create some sort of an attack and keeping possession specially in their defending 1/3 and the neutral zones of the field of play lack of making more then 3 passes was terrible.

2ndly DEFENDING ----when they have lost possession way to slow, players way out of positions that they are playing and in areas that they should not be in over crowding one side or another the field of play. Too open and should be tighter, they way it should be in these types of games.

3rdly Goalie---- I have to give him credit he was your best player in this rounds and to no fault of his he deserves a big applause he kept you guys in the game other wise it could have been a plus minus of - 10 as a team.

4th Counter attack ---- this was horrible none if any again due to players being out in the stands somewhere not even seen on the field like as if your playing in 7 vs 11.

These list of players are players I felt deserved some consideration of applause for their sense of positioning and vision of the game of both attacking and defending.

THE GOOD

Peters, Good dribbling skills but cannot do it by himself.

Edgar, The giant of the team, I like him, excellent player has good vision and good distributing of the ball, but seemed out of his natural role as a player in this position

Ledgerwood, seemed to me that he was in control of his defence skills but unfortunately lacked others next to him to make him look better then he appeared often doing others players work to cover up there mistakes.

Rosenlund. same situation as Ledgerwood seemed all by himself in al la land did the best that he could considering he had no forward's to give the ball too as they where either offside or still behind him defending the ball that he had with him.

THE BAD

Ramalho, terrible outing for him he seemed he did not know where the ball was going and one on one he was horrific specially against Columbia and Italy.

Gyaki, thinking that he scored 4 goals everything was going to come easy for him he was fooled he has to come down from his horse and work with other players too. and too short

THE UGLY

Johnson - who is this guy he was terrible way out of position running with his head down, dangerously and carelessly to opponents does not pass the ball at all, has a temper. He plays Defence and midfield at the same time, and never in his position to be a striker for this team or for that matter any team he is way to young and don't count on him next 2007 you kidding yourself he will never succeed in this role Lombardo is the better player by far

The ones that where none effective and showed lack of intensity and virtually sleeping

De Jong, I'm surprised I expected more form him considering where he is playing and his talents

Peetoom, considering that they where mesmerized by the counter attacks from the other team what could he do but the best that he could which was little

Hainault, same as Peetoom but some times lost in his role

Lombardo, slow getting back many times in a offside position asking for the ball while there, little vision and creativety attacking space in on side position and when he did receive the ball he did little with it because lack of vision or just to late waiting for it. He did not seem comfortable and maybe just did not have a good game I expected more from him considering where he has been playing.

So in a final conclusion---Outcome dont blame it on the officals they did a fine job it

Canada deserved to be where they finished last place but no fault of the theirs to mislead the Public and supporters by his picks and his Lack of preparation + Lack of coach skills + Lack of faith and experience in the European players like Hughes and Uccello and possibly some from the south only can = Failure where it could have been better and the only person that should be blamed is himself on this poor showing and quality that Canada demonstrated in this WYC. called Futbol.

I wish you guys success in your sport called hockey sorry I meant futbol. This was a joke in my eyes and no one should be proud of it for the sake of entertainment of the sport as was also disappointed how Italy played this first round as well but I expected more from them then they have showed and unfortunate they will be out of the next round with the USA and I would have preferred that they did not play any further to avoid embarrassment as well.

[Bubbachuck89]

hah im just saying the truth man..im not rubbing it in...u guys shouldnt blame any failures on the lack of funding and money cuz 3rd world countries that can barely afford to pay their players that have to work other than play soccer(most soccer players in syria are forced to work at night just to survive)...our soccer stadiums are quite old and not well maintained and all that..and other nations that are worse off especially the african ones reach higher levels than u do...u guys just dont have the determination im sorry..and if ur wondering how syria beat italy...DETERMINATION AND HARD WORK...i didnt see any of that in ur game today...ur passes were way off target and ur defence other than ledgerwood gave the italians so much space and i dont think they won any headers...u were lucky it finished 4-1...the 2 shots that hit the posts for italy would have made it 6-1 other than the dangerous shots they took in first half...and ur keeper blows...im sorry but i had to say this..u got nice individual talent but no teamwork at all...well take care.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Alberto, I agree with much of your analysis but you're not being fair to Johnson. I for one am glad to see his time in America hasn't robbed him of that Rooney-esque bad attitude. If Italy could find his passion you wouldn't be cowering at the feet of first Colombia, and now the USA!

[Alberto]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Alberto, I agree with much of your analysis but you're not being fair to Johnson. I for one am glad to see his time in America hasn't robbed him of that Rooney-esque bad attitude. If Italy could find his passion you wouldn't be cowering at the feet of first Colombia, and now the USA!

I wish that I could but he was terrible. Passion is one thing but lack experience and skills is another in this role. He showed to have none or little expereience at all.

Please show me.

Does he have any expereience! Has he played! Where! How many games! with whom! How many goals has he scored!

Then your answered your own question based on Facts and not Fiction.

I appears that he has never played this game!

Give it to me in Stats, numbers, expereience, and then i will retract my statement HE WAS TERRIBLE numero uno ala grande

[footyfanatic01]

IMO, What Canada truly needs is to stop praising mediocrity. analyst said it best, Canada prides itself when a Canadian player gets a national scolarship to the US. We're to recreational with how we approach the game. We look like schoolboys going against young men. You can see it with our team, the guys that are playing over in Europe are more polished. We have to realize that "bunkering" down and hoping for results isn't going to cut it. The CSA is a joke. We are one of the richest countries in the world, and 35 million... c'mon that is a joke. We have this recreational attitude that has to stop. Someone (not sure who it was), mentioned our jerseys...How is any team going to take us seriously when we look like a freakin' MLS team.

What we need is to concentrate on our youth. None of this long ball crap that doesn't work and has been proven that doesnt work. We need to learn to play 1-2 touch soccer, and let our skilled players take care of the rest. Professionalism is all we need.

And as for the whole tourney...Dejong, Peters, Ledgerwood, and Edgar and were our best players. You have to admire Gyaki's determination and drive, but the man needs to work on his footskills. Legerwood I can tell already is going to go along way into this game. He possess's everything that is going to make him into an international star. I see a bright future for him.

Let's just hope we develop in 2 years time. We have an excellent goalie in Bergovic (IMO will be much better then Wagenaar), and returning players. Nothing will change until we approach this game in a professional attitude. Nothing.

[loyola]

Please answer this question why is the NCAA players are a problem for Canada and aren't for the USA? Both teams have half of their players coming from the NCAA.

Wagenaar will be a good GK he just need to avoid stupid mistake(and maybe improve on crosses), technically better than Karim and far better than Mieuleman.

Johnson is playing with an MLS reserve team and played a good game today, he'll be good too. It's not surprising that Alberto comments about a player who's playing at the same position as Ucello are far less objective than the rest of his comments.

I wasn't really impressed by Giaky either, but maybe he's better than what he showed during this tourney.

[Alberto]

youllneverwalkalone

Never mind I answered for you I found it on their website

Chicago Fire never has played for them in 13 games

never has scored for them, in 13 games

never has even come off the bench for them in 13 games .

Now can you help me out where does he come from before this professional experience of his, to warrant him the tall role of the striker for Canada.

Come on now give me some more facts and stats I really want you to prove me wrong.

and fact would you like to me to add more players to the list