June 18, Canada v Italy, POST-Match [R]

[youllneverwalkalone]

Alberto,

Johnson has been through the Blackburn academy, which is no AC Milan but Misters Souness and Hughes are okay with me.

I don't have stats, but I remember several occasions where the kid took the ball from nowhere to the attacking third. That's something we need at all levels and, remember, he's hardly 18.

[loyola]

I don,t know much about italian soccer but I would like to know which league is better between the MLS Reserve and the league where Ucello is playing? Johnson is playing with guys who are almost good enough to play in the MLS and some who are good enough to play but are coming back from injuries and stuff like that.

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

Ah, I love guys like you. I'd really like to see if you'd make those comments to my face. I'd bet not.

....

Paddy, the hard man routine really loses its weight over the internet. Grow up. It got personal when you said that a young man I know and like couldn't earn a living playing. Deal with it. I have no illusions over my soccer ability but I have plenty of experience dealing with jerks.

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by sj

I think the whole CSA should be under review

we suck at the u17 level, olympiclevel, senoirlevel, u-20 level

same boring and uninspiring style.

that not one frustrate the opposition but also the fans.

Privatize the CSA so we can kick out the CEO if he cannot deliver the goods

wonder what kind of highlights they are going to take from this tournament to promote Canada 2007.

even Canadian that does not understand the game recognise that we play awful.

the one that does are not too keen about their kids playing for the national team as it reduce their market value.

this kind of soccer sabotage by the CSA has to stop.

Beast?.......Beast?......Is that you?

He's baaa..ck

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by pstain

...

I think coaches should encourage young players to watch more club soccer so that they can imitate players like Thierry Henry, Shevchenko, Ronaldinho, etc. I mean just look at the other young players in the WYC. Quincy said that he imitates Henry and that he was one of his favourite players even before joining Arsenal. And when you watch him play he clearly is like Henry. Or Senderos, who hangs posters of his favourite players on the wall. I mean if these young players have idols to look up to and try and imitate them then they can strive to learn better skills.

And with Ryan Giaki, I think he has a lot of determination but lacks BALL skills. I think he should develop into a Freddie Ljungberg or Demarcus Beasley type player since he's known for scoring goals.

And I think I should develop into an Albert Einstein.

How is this going to happen exactly?

I see plenty of sow's ears, but silk purses?

[Jason]

Today's match was a disappointment, much like the previous two. Canada played some talented clubs, but I thought they didn't get the most of their side.

Regarding individual players:

Peters: He's obviously talented, but I think a full year of being with an English club will help him mature. He needs his mental toughness and maturity to catch up with his talent.

Gyaki: In response to the above post, this guy is already making his living off soccer. For whatever reasons, I get the feeling we did not see him at his best in these games.

Ledgerwood: The best Canadian of the tournament, no question. Very promising.

Edgar and Hainault: Both have the potential to be regulars on the senior side defense for years to come.

Let's face it, Gyaki and Peters had to carry this club offensively for Canada to advance. Neither of them did it and they ended up in last. I am not saying they have no ability of future. Both are likely going to be Canadian regulars for years to come. But at this level your best players have to come through.

By the way, which of our NCAA players are going to play PDL now and which ones are going to sit at home while the other kids play?

Jason

[Alberto]

quote:Originally posted by loyola

I don,t know much about italian soccer but I would like to know which league is better between the MLS Reserve and the league where Ucello is playing? Johnson is playing with guys who are almost good enough to play in the MLS and some who are good enough to play but are coming back from injuries and stuff like that.

HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE johnson is 18

http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/MLS/players/bio.jsp?team=chf&player=johnson_w&playerId=joh456111

NO GAMES NO EXPEERIENCE NO GOALS IN 13 GAMES

Julian is also 18

http://www.savonaclub.it/campionato/2004-05/bomber.php

16 GOALS IN 32 MATCHES APPEARENCES

LEADING SCORER FOR HIS CLUB

FINSHED OVERALL THE YOUNGEST PLAYER TO HAVE 16 GOALS IN HIS CLASS OF 1986

FINSHED OVERALL IN THE STANDINGS 24 TH

WAS VOTED TOP PLAYER FOR HIS CLASS 1986 IN LIGUIRA BY THE FANS WITH 17000 VOTES

WAS VOTED BY ALL COACHES IN HIS DIVISON TO THE All STAR TEAM

OVERALL MEANS OUT OF 3300 HUNDRED PLAYERS IN SERIE D

THEY FINSHED JUST ABOVE RELEGATION

IF THIS KID HE ALSO IS 18 HAD A BETTER TEAM HE WOULD HAVE SCORED EVEN MORE GOALS

HE HAS SCORED OVER 81 GOALS IN 3 SEASON IN YOUR HIGHEST LEAGUE IN CANANDA IN 43 MATCHES ALMOST TWO GOALS PER GAME.

YOUR MLS IS PROBLABLY NOT MUCH BETTER THE A 5TH PLACE TEAM HERE IN ITALY.

the is no comparrisson johnson must be there for other reason other then futbol or passion.

[Alberto]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Alberto,

Johnson has been through the Blackburn academy, which is no AC Milan but Misters Souness and Hughes are okay with me.

I don't have stats, but I remember several occasions where the kid took the ball from nowhere to the attacking third. That's something we need at all levels and, remember, he's hardly 18.

and because of that he is a striker if i recall Julian was also with Manchester United and at Bolton according to his resume and he does not take the ball away from players he recieves balls from his teammates and get the job done by putting the ball in the net which to me counts as a goal DA

[pstain]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

And I think I should develop into an Albert Einstein.

How is this going to happen exactly?

I see plenty of sow's ears, but silk purses?

What are you referring to? The Gyaki comment or having kids actually watch soccer?

[loyola]

quote:Originally posted by Alberto

HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE johnson is 18

http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/MLS/players/bio.jsp?team=chf&player=johnson_w&playerId=joh456111

NO GAMES NO EXPEERIENCE NO GOALS IN 13 GAMES

Julian is also 18

http://www.savonaclub.it/campionato/2004-05/bomber.php

16 GOALS IN 32 MATCHES APPEARENCES

LEADING SCORER FOR HIS CLUB

FINSHED OVERALL THE YOUNGEST PLAYER TO HAVE 16 GOALS IN HIS CLASS OF 1986

FINSHED OVERALL IN THE STANDINGS 24 TH

WAS VOTED TOP PLAYER FOR HIS CLASS 1986 IN LIGUIRA BY THE FANS WITH 17000 VOTES

WAS VOTED BY ALL COACHES IN HIS DIVISON TO THE All STAR TEAM

OVERALL MEANS OUT OF 3300 HUNDRED PLAYERS IN SERIE D

THEY FINSHED JUST ABOVE RELEGATION

IF THIS KID HE ALSO IS 18 HAD A BETTER TEAM HE WOULD HAVE SCORED EVEN MORE GOALS

HE HAS SCORED OVER 81 GOALS IN 3 SEASON IN YOUR HIGHEST LEAGUE IN CANANDA IN 43 MATCHES ALMOST TWO GOALS PER GAME.

YOUR MLS IS PROBLABLY NOT MUCH BETTER THE A 5TH PLACE TEAM HERE IN ITALY.

the is no comparrisson johnson must be there for other reason other then futbol or passion.

DO I GO TO THE AC MILAN WEBSITE AND TELL YOU THAT JUL;IAN HAS NO MATCH NO GOALS WITH THAT TEAM?

I TOLD YOU THAT HE WAS PLAYING WITH THE RESERVE AND HE HAS A FEW GOALS THIS SEASON. IF YOU WANT TO SEARCH FOR HIS STATS WITH THE CHICAGO CLUB HE PLAYED BEFORE FEEL FREE TO DO SO, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT HE WAS PLAYING FOR ONE OF THE BEST CLUBS IN THE NORTH AMERICA.

HERE'S A GAME WHERE HE SCORED TWICE: http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20050515&content_id=29890&vkey=pr_mls&fext=.jsp

HERE'S A GAME WHERE HE GETS ONE GOAL AND ONE HELPER: http://chicago.fire.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20050417&content_id=26998&vkey=news_chf&fext=.jsp&team=chf

ANOTHER GAME WHERE HE HAS 1 GOAL AND 2 HELPERS: http://columbus.crew.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/team_news.jsp?ymd=20050501&content_id=28478&vkey=news_coc&fext=.jsp&team=coc

SIN'T THAT GOOD STATS FOR AN 18 YRS OLD IN 6 GAMES?

PLEASE STOP YOUR MISINFORMATION AND DO YOUR RESEARCH!

[Whither Canada]

quote:Originally posted by pstain

What are you referring to? The Gyaki comment or having kids actually watch soccer?

Turning Gyaki into anyone, let alone Freddie Ljungberg.

I don't see how you can watch someone play and then become like him.

If it was that easy, I'd be be able to play drums like Keith Moon. Let's just say I can't.

[Canuck Oranje]

Alberto, I have never seen Uccello play but I will say from what I have seen, it is not Johnson who should have replaced on the team. In my opinion, Johnson handled himself well. The player you need to be comparing Uccello to is Lombardo because I feel he was less effective than Johnson. And I am not in a position to compare him to Uccello. In my opinion, not even Dutch Striker, Ryan Babel, would have been enough to help this team so whether Lombardo or Uccello is better is only academic.

quote:Originally posted by Alberto

and because of that he is a striker if i recall Julian was also with Manchester United and at Bolton according to his resume and he does not take the ball away from players he recieves balls from his teammates and get the job done by putting the ball in the net which to me counts as a goal DA

[Alberto]

Loyola not impressed at all of this player

first of all you should get your facts right

he did not score 2 goals in one game will john scored the two goals

secondly yes Julian has scored 7 goals in 5 games for Milan

thirdly its my opinion on what I saw today and Columbia with my own eyes he is dreadful, horrible and a cry baby and never ever passes the ball he can run but so did your Ben Johnson and look what happen to him when he tried the sport.

He would not even make a 7th tier here. This is my opinion on what I saw, Julian has nothing to compare with him as far as talents, ability, sacrifices he has made to the sport and his team he a class of his own.

The only reason I brought him up is one ask of it other wise trust me this is not a Julian or a will thing there is nothing to compare with.

but then again he must be in for another reason unknown to us little people.

Canuck Oranje

Agreed nothing would have help your team

not even maradonna so I am with you but nothing would change my mind it my opinion that's all.

however anything is better then Johnson and a far cry from Lombardo i think even though he did not have a good game today. The problem is that if you do not have faith in the italian players that play in the leagues here which are better then yours how can you expect guys like Julian or Lombardo to have trust in the Canadian system to usefully use them for what there are know for and the position they play and to hind them infront of players like Johnson wfor what ever the reasons and your forced to put them in a subs and not only that to put them in other then their positions is telling me something. WHY CALL THEM.

[pstain]

quote:Originally posted by Whither Canada

Turning Gyaki into anyone, let alone Freddie Ljungberg.

I don't see how you can watch someone play and then become like him.

If it was that easy, I'd be be able to play drums like Keith Moon. Let's just say I can't.

If kids watch more soccer than they have someone to look up to instead of just listening to their coach on how to play soccer. If kids watch these players and try to imitate them then they would practice more to try and be like their hero. And this can also lead to more imagination in their play instead of just learning a bunker system of play.

And with the Gyaki comment, I'm just saying that he should develop into someone who runs in late in the box from the midfield to score. Something similar to Ljungberg. I'm not saying he could turn into him.

[Reza]

BTW, to add insult to injury, Canada missed on playing USA, as now Italy faces the US in the round of 16. It would have been nice to see a Canada-USA match at the world stage. I don't think it has ever happened in the men's side.

[footyfanatic01]

pstain thats the worst logic i've heard in a long time..

[Canuck Oranje]

quote:

however anything is better then Johnson and a far cry from Lombardo i think even though he did not have a good game today. The problem is that if you do not have faith in the italian players that play in the leagues here which are better then yours how can you expect guys like Julian or Lombardo to have trust in the Canadian system to usefully use them for what there are know for and the position they play and to hind them infront of players like Johnson wfor what ever the reasons and your forced to put them in a subs and not only that to put them in other then their positions is telling me something. WHY CALL THEM.

My point has nothing to do where they play or what their background is, my point is simply that Johnson was not the weakest striker there.

I have a great respect for the Italian system. I also have a great respect for the Dutch, German, and English systems as well.

I also feel the American system is grossly underestimated and has been many times in the recent past. The main difference between the Canadian and American teams are that the Americans spend much more time training as a unit and playing high quality opposition. I guess we will see how it compares to the Italian system very soon.

But at the end of the day, the Coach needs to choose who he thinks will help create the best team if winning is what is most important. Again, I don't know the differences between the players being discussed here. I only think, in my opinion, that Johnson was not the player (based on his performance) that would need to be dropped.

[James]

It's pretty obvious that it wasn't the right team to send. It never really did have the same feel or confidence that we had the last time around. The results leading up should have been ringing some bells. Mitchell blew it, man. There were a few nice performances. Ledgerwood would be my pick as player of the tournement from Canada. Edgar was impressive too. I think he's going to be a good one for us sometime soon for the WC side. I'm completely on side with Alberto on Uccello. Why he wasn't in the side is mind blowing. A kid with his scoring record in a Canadian side would have been fantastic. It's really sad too because he's going to be too old for the next one. I can't imagine what was going through Mitchell's head when he made that decision. To top it off, he knew we were playing Italy, correct? The schedule had been made. Wouldn't it have made sense to use a kid from the AC Milan system? A kid who has scored a ton of goals against many of the best young italian systems? In the Italy game alone, there were at least three fantastic opportunities to get a timely goal. The timing and the place were there but the finishing pathetic. I'd bet money that Uccello could got on top of one of them. And of course, lets remember how up for the Italian game he would have been. A terrible waste.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by Canuck Oranje

I also feel the American system is grossly underestimated and has been many times in the recent past. The main difference between the Canadian and American teams are that the Americans spend much more time training as a unit and playing high quality opposition. I guess we will see how it compares to the Italian system very soon.

Very true. I know a few guys who have gone from top provincial level to College in the U.S. (scholarships) and they are surprised how intense is training and games over there. They say it is an entirely different ball game and that they never had to work so hard before.

[Daniel]

Even worse is that apparently Jonathan Bourgault-Beaulieu was called up to replace and injured player.

As for watching pro players play, it helps make young ones want to attain that level. Never heard of role models???

[beachesl]

quote:Originally posted by James

It's pretty obvious that it wasn't the right team to send. It never really did have the same feel or confidence that we had the last time around. The results leading up should have been ringing some bells. Mitchell blew it, man. There were a few nice performances. Ledgerwood would be my pick as player of the tournement from Canada. Edgar was impressive too. I think he's going to be a good one for us sometime soon for the WC side. I'm completely on side with Alberto on Uccello. Why he wasn't in the side is mind blowing. A kid with his scoring record in a Canadian side would have been fantastic. It's really sad too because he's going to be too old for the next one. I can't imagine what was going through Mitchell's head when he made that decision. To top it off, he knew we were playing Italy, correct? The schedule had been made. Wouldn't it have made sense to use a kid from the AC Milan system? A kid who has scored a ton of goals against many of the best young italian systems? In the Italy game alone, there were at least three fantastic opportunities to get a timely goal. The timing and the place were there but the finishing pathetic. I'd bet money that Uccello could got on top of one of them. And of course, lets remember how up for the Italian game he would have been. A terrible waste.

Well, James, buddy, I usually agree with most of your posts (and most of the comments we have shared over beer in the bars), but I think such criticism of Mitchell is a wee bit unfortunate.

Dale has prepared a team after much preparation and deliberation, and has kept the core of the team together over a long period of time. He has insisted on full commitment and full availability for the team, so he has been prepared to play hardball with the players and their clubs. He has developed a clear and consistent system, and has had the players play that system. This is what the vast majority of the board has said again and again Yallop should have done. Let's not be neurotic here.

The criticism about leaving out Ucello may be justified, but it is homerism that is done in ignorance about the situation the Mitchell found himself in and Mitchell's evaluation over a long period of time. Ucello was given a full chance, unlike Yallop did with players such as Nsiliwa.

Johnson had a good tournament. Today he had two clear breakaways, the thwarting of both which should have clearly resulted in red cards not awarded by that terrible Uruguayan referee. Sure Italy had the better performance today, but with breaks from the ref, Canada could have come back instead of the rout we found ourselves in (it is interesting and suprising to me that the Italian fans such as you, DJT and Gian-luca, to name but a few, among the our Voyageur colleagues and friends have come out in such unusual blindness today:)).

Please, give the Uccello (who I respect and have great hopes for) thing a rest guys. Your opinions have been noted. Let's not let that cloud the excellent job that Dale Mitchell has done in the circumstances, and our support for his efforts, even if we disagree with some of his particular judgement calls.

Cheers and respect to all here!

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Jarrek

GL, did you see the US play in the WYC? Yes they had a lot of skill but also showed a lot of grit and determination.

And our players didn't? I suggest you watch the Italy game again. The match I saw had our Canadian boys fighting right to the very end. We lost to Italy & Colombia because they have more talented players they we do, not because our players are lacking in character. This has nothing to do with the US.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

The Italian ran through Nik after Nik played the ball. It was a foul.

Watch it again. It was likely a foul, but not flagrant one as was suggested, and the Italian player certainly didn't leave his foot in Nik as Forrest suggested. If he had run right through Ledgerwood without stopping then Nik's leg would likely have been broken. That didn't happen.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Paddy

Really...I was unaware that he had a time machine or was clairvoyant. Perhaps he played so poorly in anticipation of my comments and was waiting for the game to end before signing the contract that he brought with him to Holland. Which is it?

Your pedantry is unimpressive. As are, apparently, your chances of a profession as a pro soccer scount. Better luck next time.

[Gian-Luca]

I have to add by the way, now having read through this whole thread, that much of the reaction to this match has been truly pathetic, and frankly shameful.

I'm almost getting the impression that most people were expecting us to win the tourney with the level of bitterness in this thread about being eliminated in the first round. Its ridiculous. I'm disappointed too, but sheesh, get some perspective people. We weren't favourites to advance out of the group as one of the top two teams, we were perhaps favoured for one of the 3rd place spots. We got lucky last time round when our keeper saved two penalties to ensure we had a decent goal differential with our three points. We weren't as lucky this time. I'm more concerned in this tourney at how we played, rather than whether we win it all. I like the way we played 50% of the time, the other 50% not so much. But I suppose that 50% is better than 0% which has happened in the past (2001 comes to mind).

I'd also point out we had a much younger team this time round - Ledgerwood played as a sub in one first round match in 2003, he was the only 18 year old to do so. This time round a large part of the core of the team were 18 years old (Peters, Johnson, Edgar). There was very little reason to expect us to do as well as in 2003 - hope, yes. Expect, no.

The fighting over Uccello vs. Johnson, Lombardo, Phil Esposito or Wayne Gretzky is ridiculous, there was another striker called who didn't even play a minute (Franco Lalli) why don't we rip him apart while we're at it? Sure he didn't do anything wrong in this tourney, but hey that doesn't seem to stop us anymore on this board.

I'd love for Canada to be world beaters capable of producing the deep talent at the same level that Colombia & Italy did in this tourney - once we get the same sort of club system in place then maybe we can expect that, until that happens we'll always be at a disadvantage against these teams. Sometimes we will prevail, but not always. However, the fact that we have been perennial qualifiers for this tourney recently (even before we hosted) is a sign that we are doing better. I doubt we can take the next permanent step without improving our domestic club situation - and that isn't the fault of these kids that some of you are shredding apart on this board.