CONCACAF Nations League 2023/2024 - Group Stage & ¼finals - General Thread

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

@Alex @Treppy2 & all others that were interested, the schedule is out.

https://www.concacaf.com/nations-league/news/concacaf-announces-schedule-for-2023-24-concacaf-nations-league-presented-by-qatar-airways/

 

The matchups are indeed odd. Anybody want to attempt an explanation?

 

Other interesting information is also given:

The top 4 teams will be seeded based on CONCACAF Rankings in October (after the October FIFA window). As expected we will therefore play the top team from one of the Swiss Groups (because we won't surpass the USA or Mexico in the CONCACAF rankings between now and late October).

 

For November, it isn't stated who plays at home or who plays away first. We will play either:

Thursday, November 16th & Monday, November 20th

or

Friday, November 17th & Tuesday, November 21st

So, there will be a home game on one of those four dates.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

Miscellaneous news:

Panama will play Bolivia in late August to prepare for their CNL matches:

https://www.rpctv.com/marea-roja/presidente-federacion-boliviana-confirmo-amistoso-la-seleccion-panama-n5900346/amp

They seemingly have infinite resources for friendlies.

 

El Salvador will not host Trinidad and Tobago in September at their usual venue, the Estadio Cuscatlán. Since the crowd rush that killed many at a club match in late May, there is work being done to improve the stadium. 

https://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Salvador_crowd_crush

https://amp.elsalvador.com/amp/deportes/1074633/fesfut-confirma-sede-selecta-estadio-cuscatlan-liga-naciones-concacaf.html

Edited July 11, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille

[Neil R.]

2 hours ago, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

@Alex @Treppy2 & all others that were interested, the schedule is out.

https://www.concacaf.com/nations-league/news/concacaf-announces-schedule-for-2023-24-concacaf-nations-league-presented-by-qatar-airways/

 

The matchups are indeed odd. Anybody want to attempt an explanation?

Something I've noticed is the country you play twice is the country that's closest to you in the CONCACAF rankings. Panama plays Guatemala twice (1st and 2nd seeds in Group A), Martinique plays El Salvador twice (3rd and 4th seeds), Trinidad and Tobago plays Curaçao twice (5th and 6th seeds). Same for Group B.

If I'm Panama, Guatemala, Haiti, or Jamaica, I'm not sure how much I'd like that 2 of your 4 matches are against the toughest competition (ranking-wise) in the group. If those 2 matches ended up in draws, a 3rd-6th seed might find themselves closer to the top 2 in the group than they thought they'd be.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

57 minutes ago, Neil R. said:

Something I've noticed is the country you play twice is the country that's closest to you in the CONCACAF rankings.

Interesting. Thanks for your insight. I hadn't noticed that.

I think Honduras really got lucky that Cuba is ranked above Suriname.

Honduras can jump above Haiti and Jamaica because of this.

[Neil R.]

Just out of interest, I went through the matchups and it looks like this is each team's 4-match pathway in the group stage. It's the same across both groups.

This is the seeding from 1st-6th in each group for the format below:

Group A - Panama, Guatemala, El Salvador, Martinique, Curaçao, Trinidad and Tobago
Group B - Haiti, Jamaica, Honduras, Cuba, Suriname, Grenada

Top seed: Plays the 2nd seed twice, 4th seed once, 5th seed once
2nd seed: Plays the 1st seed twice, 3rd seed once, 6th seed once
3rd seed: Plays the 4th seed twice, 2nd seed once, 6th seed once
4th seed: Plays the 3rd seed twice, 1st seed once, 5th seed once
5th seed: Plays the 6th seed twice, 1st seed once, 4th seed once
6th seed: Plays the 5th seed twice, 2nd seed once, 3rd seed once

The 3rd seed in each group could have a really good chance. 3 of their 4 matches are against a lower-ranked opponent (one of them being the 6th seed) and you don't have to play the top seed.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Neil R.
Added the countries and their seeding in each group for reference

[archer21]

2 hours ago, Neil R. said:

Just out of interest, I went through the matchups and it looks like this is each team's 4-match pathway in the group stage. It's the same across both groups.

Top seed: Plays the 2nd seed twice, 4th seed once, 5th seed once
2nd seed: Plays the 1st seed twice, 3rd seed once, 6th seed once
3rd seed: Plays the 4th seed twice, 2nd seed once, 6th seed once
4th seed: Plays the 3rd seed twice, 1st seed once, 5th seed once
5th seed: Plays the 6th seed twice, 1st seed once, 4th seed once
6th seed: Plays the 5th seed twice, 2nd seed once, 3rd seed once

The 3rd seed in each group could have a really good chance. 3 of their 4 matches are against a lower-ranked opponent (one of them being the 6th seed) and you don't have to play the top seed.

Why does concacaf always have to do things that don’t make sense? Let’s say the 2 seed loses both matches to the top seed and wins against 3 and 6. Let’s also say the 3 seed loses to 2, but beats 6 and has a win and draw with 4. In this scenario, 3 gets in over 2, despite losing to them and only beating lower ranked teams. Meanwhile, 2 is eliminated despite beating 3 and only losing to the top ranked team. That’s complete nonsense.

Edited July 12, 2023 by archer21

[Neil R.]

34 minutes ago, archer21 said:

Why does concacaf always have to do things that don’t make sense? Let’s say the 2 seed loses both matches to the top seed and wins against 3 and 6. Let’s also say the 3 seed loses to 2, but beats 6 and has a win and draw with 4. In this scenario, 3 gets in over 2, despite losing to them and only beating lower ranked teams. Meanwhile, 2 is eliminated despite beating 3 and only losing to the top ranked team. That’s complete nonsense.

That's a good example. The 3rd seed would be in, 7 points to 6.

Starting from the 5th seed is also looking pretty good. 3 of your 4 matches are the 6th seed twice and the 4th seed once, and you only play 1 match against anyone ranked in the top 3 of your group.

[Alex]

Suriname got a pretty easy draw. Grenada, Cuba, Haiti, Grenada. 

[maplebanana]

1 hour ago, Alex said:

Suriname got a pretty easy draw. Grenada, Cuba, Haiti, Grenada. 

How funny would it be if they ran the table against this opposition, only for them to face us again in QF and we end their campaign? Suriname Football Twitter would absolutely lose it, and I'm here for all of it.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

2 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

How funny would it be if they ran the table against this opposition, only for them to face us again in QF and we end their campaign? Suriname Football Twitter would absolutely lose it, and I'm here for all of it.

They can be really dangerous at times. I can see them coming in first and facing the USA or Mexico.

[maplebanana]

Just now, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

They can be really dangerous at times. I can see them coming in first and facing the USA or Mexico.

If they come in first in their group, they are playing either us or CRC in QF as we are 3rd/4th in CONCACAF index. If they finish 2nd in their group, then they can face USA/MEX. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

14 minutes ago, maplebanana said:

If they come in first in their group, they are playing either us or CRC in QF as we are 3rd/4th in CONCACAF index. If they finish 2nd in their group, then they can face USA/MEX. 

Oh how I missed watching our rankings. And worrying about friendlies because of them.

 

Jamaica would seem to be the team to worry about coming up from that group.  If they keep some continuity during the English season.

[king1010]

2 minutes ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

Oh how I missed watching our rankings. And worrying about friendlies because of them.

 

Jamaica would seem to be the team to worry about coming up from that group.  If they keep some continuity during the English season.

Panama and Jamaica are right on our tail in the Fifa ranking(even closer if one of them makes it to the gold cup finals). Costa Rica will probably still be a few points ahead of us in the next ranking. 

We need to start picking up solid wins to hold down a top 4 spot. 

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

41 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Panama and Jamaica are right on our tail in the Fifa ranking(even closer if one of them makes it to the gold cup finals). Costa Rica will probably still be a few points ahead of us in the next ranking. 

We need to start picking up solid wins to hold down a top 4 spot. 

It's CONCACAF rankings isn't it? (And I need a refresher on how those are done, to be honest.)

 

Edit: I guess for those in the know, for this next Nations League at least, do we need to worry about Panama and Jamaica doing well tonight? Always like an underdog if not.

Edited July 12, 2023 by WestHamCanadianinOxford

[Obinna]

45 minutes ago, king1010 said:

Panama and Jamaica are right on our tail in the Fifa ranking(even closer if one of them makes it to the gold cup finals). Costa Rica will probably still be a few points ahead of us in the next ranking. 

We need to start picking up solid wins to hold down a top 4 spot. 

Why do we need to hold down a top 4 spot? Are you thinking Copa America draw? We are already in the QF stage automatically for being top 4...

[WestHamCanadianinOxford]

6 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Why do we need to hold down a top 4 spot? Are you thinking Copa America draw? We are already in the QF stage automatically for being top 4...

I guess we could be 3rd or 4th based on this.

"The pairing for the Quarterfinals will be determined based on the Concacaf Rankings of October 2023 (after the FIFA Window) and the 2023/24 CNL Group Stage results..."

[king1010]

10 minutes ago, Obinna said:

Why do we need to hold down a top 4 spot? Are you thinking Copa America draw? We are already in the QF stage automatically for being top 4...

Just because. 
 

I think it is where we should strive to consistently be. Also top 4 usually equates to top 50 worldwide which opens up some work permits

Edited July 12, 2023 by king1010

[maplebanana]

1 hour ago, WestHamCanadianinOxford said:

It's CONCACAF rankings isn't it? (And I need a refresher on how those are done, to be honest.)

I don't know how well this link will work, but I did a semi-explainer on how the CONCACAF ranking is calculated in the FIFA rankings thread: 

 

Disclaimer: I may be completely wrong as the calculation is no longer published. But it's close.

 

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

2 hours ago, maplebanana said:

If they come in first in their group, they are playing either us or CRC in QF as we are 3rd/4th in CONCACAF index. If they finish 2nd in their group, then they can face USA/MEX. 

Yes! My bad. I meant 2nd. Behind Honduras.

[Kent]

I feel like CONCACAF wanted to expand League A, but what they ended up still trying to have different levels within League A, and did a terrible job. It was already segregated into League A+ and League A- with the QF byes for the top 4 teams, but now this really uneven scheduling is really stupid. The 3rd ranked team has an objectively easier path than the 2nd ranked team (I guess not taking home field advantage into account, I haven't looked at that, only @Neil R.'s summary) and the 5th ranked team has an objectively easier path than the 4th ranked team.

2nd plays - 1st, 1st, 3rd, 6th
3rd plays - 2nd, 4th, 4th, 6th

So every game that 3rd plays is the same as, or easier than, the games the 2nd ranked team. Same think with 4th and 5th. Bring back the previous Nations League format! Particularly frustrating for Canada fans if the new format doesn't even result in some high profile friendlies to replace the missed Nations League games.

[Obinna]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:33 PM, king1010 said:

Just because. 
 

I think it is where we should strive to consistently be. Also top 4 usually equates to top 50 worldwide which opens up some work permits

The live FIFA rankings as of today have us moving up 1 spot to 44.

Costa Rica lost points this month, but not enough to drop a spot. They remain at 42.

Panama are set to jump 5 spots to 51. Could be even more if then beat Mexico in the final. 

[Obinna]

https://football-ranking.com/rankByConfederation?zone=CONCACAF&period=

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

On 7/11/2023 at 5:29 PM, Olympique_de_Marseille said:

the schedule is out.

The detailed schedule with venues and kickoff times is out for September:

https://www.concacaf.com/nations-league/news/concacaf-confirms-september-schedule-for-2023-24-concacaf-nations-league-group-stage-matches/

[JamboAl]

So we would likely play the second best 1st place team in the quarterfinals.  That sounds like a good challenge, which could be Jamaica or Panama.

[Olympique_de_Marseille]

U.S. Soccer has already announced the venue, date and time for their quarterfinal match!

https://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2023/08/us-soccer-selects-austin-to-host-critical-concacaf-nations-league-quarterfinal-in-november

They are hosting the first leg. This presumably opens the door for the CSA to do the same.

(A match on Thursday, Nov 16th or Friday, Nov 17th )

Whether it is the first or second leg, BMO Field will have no CFL conflicts and the Grey Cup will be in Hamilton.

https://www.cfl.ca/schedule/2023/

Even if TFC make the playoffs, there are obviously no MLS scheduling conflicts either.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/news/mls-announces-new-playoff-format-for-2023-season

There no scheduling conflicts for B.C. Place:

https://www.bcplace.com/whats-on

and Saputo too obviously, but I think Toronto, as it often is, is the frontrunner to host this match.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Olympique_de_Marseille