Whitecaps 2016

[TRM]

Given Morales comments a month or so ago I think he's been told they are shopping him around. A buyout or ship back to Chile/Spain is in the works. Hard not to be depressed in that situation but they are supposed to be professionals.

Ousted wears his emotions pretty openly so it doesn't surprise me. He is also very critical of his own play which is good.

[BearcatSA]

I wonder how many people will be out for this game?

[Unnamed Trialist]

On 22/10/2016 at 6:28 AM, BearcatSA said:

I wonder how many people will be out for this game?

If I were in Van, I'd go. Just to knock Portland out of the playoffs it is worth the result.

Also, if not mistaken, a win by three goals gives us the Cascadia Cup, small change but still, better to be holders than not. Otherwise it will be Portland's it seems.

[BearcatSA]

59 minutes ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

If I were in Van, I'd go. Just to knock Portland out of the playoffs it is worth the result.

Also, if not mistaken, a win by three goals gives us the Cascadia Cup, small change but still, better to be holders than not. Otherwise it will be Portland's it seems.

The match got barely a mention on the Saturday evening Global BC sports, just an afterthought comment at the end (granted, I came in part way through the sports after the usual substantial pregame break down of the upcoming Seahawks game, so maybe something was mentioned before and I just missed it).  

This has been a really disappointing, underachieving season yet the metaphorical equivalent feeling I get  is that of a half-arsed "whatever" shrug.  Toleration of mediocrity is not part of the template for success.

[TRM]

Well after a season that wasn't so good at least we finish on a high note. Eliminate Portland from the playoffs, win the Cascadia cup by getting a +3 goal diff, see Levis play in MLS and get 24k in attendance. A good day at the field.

[The Beaver]

Robinson and his assistants have been extended to 2020. Just announced.  While I have some reservations, I still feel that it is a good move to extend him. The Caps have a plan, and he is a big part of that vision. Turning things around next year will be critical, mind you.

[The Beaver]

On 10/19/2016 at 4:39 PM, Unnamed Trialist said:

If that was the case, and it looked like it at times, Robbo should have moved him out or benched him.

Ousted looked most of the year like a guy who wanted to be a leader but lost credit quickly with uncertain play. 

I feel that most of the squad was trying too hard, to be honest. Well, maybe not Pedro, but certainly Ousted and Waston and a few others, to the point where they almost as individuals figured they all had to be heroes, rather than good teammates. Many of Outsted's worst blunders this year were from his being out of position and trying to do something he should have let his CBs handle, Waston especially.  Those two were NOT clicking this year. Lots of mistakes for both of them. And that is death when your GK and top CB are crapping the bed.  They need to trust each other; they need to communicate better. We went from one of the best defensive teams in the league to one of the worst.  To me, this is exactly where Robbo must start his analysis.

[TRM]

24 minutes ago, The Beaver said:

Robinson and his assistants have been extended to 2020. Just announced.  While I have some reservations, I still feel that it is a good move to extend him. The Caps have a plan, and he is a big part of that vision. Turning things around next year will be critical, mind you.

I would have preferred a shorter leash but we'll see. Next year is the make or break year for Robbo. He either gets the team into the playoffs or is gone and that should be easy to see around July. He needs to get much better tactically. We still haven't solved our lack of scoring (same GF as last year) but have got a lot worse defending (from 1st to 12th in GA). Interestingly only 3 teams in the east are better than us in GA but 8 out west are.

[shermanator]

Robinson signing for 4 more years is a big surprise, but it could be good news for their young Canadian talent.

[Ed_S]

I don't know what I find more stunning: the extension of Robinson's contract for FOUR more years or the fact that some are applauding this move. 

[Dub Narcotic]

3 minutes ago, Ed_S said:

I don't know what I find more stunning: the extension of Robinson's contract for FOUR more years or the fact that some are applauding this move. 

Absolutely crazy, hopefully that's non-guaranteed.  Marius Rovde left the team, I don't know if he was the sacrificial lamb or just got a better offer somewhere else.

[SuperCanuck]

1 hour ago, Ed_S said:

I don't know what I find more stunning: the extension of Robinson's contract for FOUR more years or the fact that some are applauding this move. 

Why?  Are you saying you don't think four more years of Hurtado wondering where the goal is but still getting lots of playing time isn't entertaining?

[Unnamed Trialist]

I see this merely as Bobby's way of hanging onto his job, extend the manager, admit nothing, confess nothing, explain nothing. Bang all heads against all available walls. 

For me, it's a Lenarduzzi defensive move, like the ones he was good at, to keep his semi-retirement at the Whitecaps expense intact. And the owners treating the club like a plaything, like a toy, are fine with it.

[TRM]

Well he is 6 years into his timeline of 7 to become a head coach. We'll see next year if the 3rd place overall was a fluke or if he can recapture that level. The club is obviously betting that he will hit his stride next year.

His record as a head coach is  138 games, 48 wins, 36 draws, 49 losses (180/414 or 44% of points available taken). That is 45 points a season based on 34 games. Not going to get you into the playoffs most years. Hardly a record that cries "long term extension".

 

[The Beaver]

Admitting I might be too optimistic here, I DO think this move is about the mid-term vision for this club. They are all about developing young talent, and Robbo has been central to that from even before he was head coach.  Four years seems long, yes, but that is just long enough for Robbo to see what he can do to bring a lot of our young Canadian prospects into the fold. He is absolutely dedicated to developing and blooding young players, and will work them into the first team as they become ready.  I think the Caps brass and ownership see this current plan as Phase One, a phase that would end, more or less, in the next few years.  I am not necessarily a fan of Lenarduzzi, but he's been pretty solid thus far, and I think the real brains with the real strategy are the ownership group, and they are no slouches in that department.  But I am with the rest of you in noting that Robbo needs to steer the team in the right direction next year, otherwise he has to go. We need to see real signs of improvement.  

[masster]

I'm making an informed assumption here, but I don't think there is anyway that the 4 year extension is guaranteed. I wouldn't be surprised if it is two years and then another two are triggered if they hit certain benchmarks. I have heard that these sorts of deals are common for the Whitecaps and they announce them without the detail.

[El Hombre]

On 2016-10-26 at 0:31 PM, shermanator said:

Robinson signing for 4 more years is a big surprise, but it could be good news for their young Canadian talent.

 

14 hours ago, The Beaver said:

... but that is just long enough for Robbo to see what he can do to bring a lot of our young Canadian prospects into the fold. He is absolutely dedicated to developing and blooding young players, and will work them into the first team as they become ready.

Just curious as to where this view of Robinson is coming from.  Alphonso Davies aside, not sure where Robinson has shown to be good for the Whitecaps prospects.  He was in charge when guys like Christian Bolanos, Andrew Jacobson, Blas Perez, Pa-Modoh Kah, Mauro Rosales, Robert Earnshaw etc. were brought in.  Maybe he has said something in the media?

[Dub Narcotic]

Robinson always talks about his 'young team' and 'the building process' to cover up for mediocre results. But, as you said, he actually doesn't particularly play that many young players, especially from the Whitecaps system. In addition, the 'young players' he had at the start of his tenure are different than the 'young players' he has now with the exception of Kekuta Manneh, so it's pretty unclear what exactly he is building. Sadly, a British accent and playing lots of random South Americans can fool a lot of people.

[youllneverwalkalone]

If you look at Caleb Porter, Ben Olsen, Jay Heaps, there is a trend to keep with the younger managers and accept the ups and downs in the table. I'm not sure why exactly, but I suspect there's a management philosophy that 1-20 in the league are not that different in terms of quality, so missing the playoffs today could be an MLS Cup or Supporter's Shield tomorrow.

I've been a season ticket holder since Bob Liley, and this was the first year since that BL that I really lost interest. The style of play was horrible, particularly having to watch Hurtado on a regular basis. Having said this, Robbo did get to the CCL quarters, he finally brought in some veteran Canadians, young Canadians from other clubs, and really was let down by his big money South American signings. He definitely deserves to finish his CCL run and see what he can do with the 2-3 DP slots I see opening up by March of 2017.

[SuperCanuck]

On 26/10/2016 at 9:31 AM, shermanator said:

Robinson signing for 4 more years is a big surprise, but it could be good news for their young Canadian talent.

I'm sorry, I have to disagree.

I think it's more likely to be good news for foreign players who get a baffling amount of playing time:

Hurtado who wouldn't know the inside of a goal post if he walked into it.

Morales, who scores 90% (off the top of my head, I'm sure someone will correct me and give me the exact figure) of his goals from the penalty spot, and when he actually connects with a pass, possibly by accident, the announcers say, "Oh, look at that pass by Morales."  And this guy wears the captain's arm band, until he's sent off for needlessly elbowing someone in the head.

For me, Robinson's had his chance, and he's not produced.  He's a likeable guy, so it's not as easy for me to say that I've had enough as it was with that Soehn character.

[shermanator]

1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

Just curious as to where this view of Robinson is coming from.  Alphonso Davies aside, not sure where Robinson has shown to be good for the Whitecaps prospects.  He was in charge when guys like Christian Bolanos, Andrew Jacobson, Blas Perez, Pa-Modoh Kah, Mauro Rosales, Robert Earnshaw etc. were brought in.  Maybe he has said something in the media?

 

40 minutes ago, SuperCanuck said:

I'm sorry, I have to disagree.

I think it's more likely to be good news for foreign players who get a baffling amount of playing time:

Hurtado who wouldn't know the inside of a goal post if he walked into it.

Morales, who scores 90% (off the top of my head, I'm sure someone will correct me and give me the exact figure) of his goals from the penalty spot, and when he actually connects with a pass, possibly by accident, the announcers say, "Oh, look at that pass by Morales."  And this guy wears the captain's arm band, until he's sent off for needlessly elbowing someone in the head.

For me, Robinson's had his chance, and he's not produced.  He's a likeable guy, so it's not as easy for me to say that I've had enough as it was with that Soehn character.

It's an incredibly low bar to set, but I've see Robinson as an improvement on what was there with Rennie and Soehn in terms of giving young Canadians opportunities. Nowhere near where I would like it to be, but still an improvement over Canadians getting 131 minutes in a season. Perhaps I am giving him too much credit for the Davies and Levis signings and the occasional opportunity for Froese, Bustos and Adekugbe.

I think the extension is a baffling one, but I just have a feeling the next Whitecaps manager could go full Lenarduzzi on us and strip the Whitecaps of all meaningful opportunities for young Canadians.

[SuperCanuck]

2 hours ago, shermanator said:

 

It's an incredibly low bar to set, but I've see Robinson as an improvement on what was there with Rennie and Soehn in terms of giving young Canadians opportunities. Nowhere near where I would like it to be, but still an improvement over Canadians getting 131 minutes in a season. Perhaps I am giving him too much credit for the Davies and Levis signings and the occasional opportunity for Froese, Bustos and Adekugbe.

I think the extension is a baffling one, but I just have a feeling the next Whitecaps manager could go full Lenarduzzi on us and strip the Whitecaps of all meaningful opportunities for young Canadians.

Good point.  I'd forgotten how bad it was before, either by selective memory or ...what do you call that thing when you can't remember anything?

[Dub Narcotic]

Rennie didn't have a USL team and the academy was just getting started. He had Teibert in a more critical role than he has ever seen since, and he was really the only young Canadian in a position to contribute. 

[The Beaver]

8 hours ago, El Hombre said:

 

Just curious as to where this view of Robinson is coming from.  Alphonso Davies aside, not sure where Robinson has shown to be good for the Whitecaps prospects.  He was in charge when guys like Christian Bolanos, Andrew Jacobson, Blas Perez, Pa-Modoh Kah, Mauro Rosales, Robert Earnshaw etc. were brought in.  Maybe he has said something in the media?

Well the entire frickin' USL team for one!  It is packed with good young Canadian prospects, was in fact the youngest team in all of the USL, and Robinson is looking for ways to bring those guys up when he can.  He signed Levis and Davies to MLS contracts this year. He tried to get Froese and Bustos going, but both of these guys did not show well, certainly not well enough to displace other starters. (Froese got hurt, too, mind you.) Adekube would be getting a hell of a lot more time, was in fact Robinson's preferred left back at the start of last season until he foolishly slid into a much bigger man and got injured etc.  He's said that Teibert is the future captain of this team, and he sure tries to get Aird working at right back. Bringing in veteran guys to balance a young team, to in fact help guide young players is damned smart.  You NEED that sort of leadership and experience on the pitch. None of this is rocket science! 

I am not saying that Robinson should get a free pass next year. In fact, I've said the exact opposite. He needs to show that he can turn this team around. And we need to start seeing the fruits of the Caps "youth strategy" over the next couple of years. But at least they have a long term strategy, one that makes a lot of sense for an organization that does not have incredibly deep pockets.

 

[Dub Narcotic]

I think your view of Robinson is at odds with reality. Robinson has repeatedly signed unknown South Americans (strangely, often with the same agent) on these weird loan deals that have handicapped the team again and again rather than take chances on younger and domestic players. The Whitecaps actually set a MLS record for least domestic minutes played last year.  Also, the USL team wasn't his idea, it was the organizations doing, and it's stacked with good young players because the Whitecaps had one of the best academies in North America before he came along.