Whitecaps 2016

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

On 8/7/2016 at 1:13 AM, Unnamed Trialist said:

The possibilities of Robinson being fired have to be on the rise,

Look.  People can call me pie in the sky in regards to CPL, and perhaps they are right.  

But as far as the Whitecaps are concerned, I really truly believe that they are a season away from being a legit contender, and I think the case I'm about to make to you is fairly logical.  

What was the problem last season?  Not enough offence.  So management shakes things up, and honestly, I almost can't even keep track of all the new guys they brought in.  

On paper, of course, the results have been disappointing.  But football is not played on paper.  It is a game of human connections.  A game of chemistry.  This current iteration of the whitecaps simply hasn't been given the chance to develop that chemistry.

Come on guys - Scooter's out, Barnes, Kudo and Perez are all new, but all have shown flashes of what they can do. Bolanos occasionally needs to take his head out of his ass, but he's clearly skilled. Give them time.

I genuinely believe that this current roster, if it gels, can compete with anyone in MLS.  And FFS, I really want Western Canada to be first at something for once.  First Canadian MLS title.  Next year.  Why not.

It's easy to hang your head in despair, and point fingers(Come on, robbo's gotten them this far, doesn't he deserve a shot with this roster for a full year?) but I just ask that you give them one season before we start pointing fingers for the guillotine.

I really believe in this squad.

 

 

[Unnamed Trialist]

1 hour ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

 

On paper, of course, the results have been disappointing.  But football is not played on paper.  It is a game of human connections.  A game of chemistry.  This current iteration of the whitecaps simply hasn't been given the chance to develop that chemistry.-------

I really believe in this squad.

On the pitch the Whitecaps are hopeless, it is not a problem at all with paper, GdelQ. No one is disappointed by paper, it is football that is getting people down.

As for the squad, then great, whatever squad you are talking about.

The current coach is hopelessly lost and needs to be immediately sacked, he has lost it and is embarrassing the organization.

[Gian-Luca]

8 hours ago, TRM said:

Bogus call on the PK as Aird got the ball first not to mention Ousted stopped the first PK but was off the line due to a balk by the KC PK taker. .

True, I think it was the wrong call (and the PK re-take call was ridiculous because of not just the stutter but if you are going to call that letter of the law stuff, why does KC get to re-take a miss when 3 of their players encroach on the PK? Shouldn't that stuff cancel each other out?) but Aird will still have to learn that this is a risky tackle to make and I'm not sure it was a necessary one given the angle Peterson would have had for the shot.

On the plus side, Aird really knows how to get his crosses through and every single one of them seems to get into the box. Incredible then that Vancouver couldn't be bothered to get any players into the box to win any of the headers, but that's how out-of-sync offensively they looked to me. All the Canadians for Vancouver played well *(Edgar looks to be rounding into form, De Jong did well against Zusi) except possibly for Davies who right now is suffering from Giles Barnes-syndrome - running with the ball, head down and trying to beat about 6 players instead of involving teammates (Bolanos also seems to be guilty of this quite a bit). Obviously the kid will learn, but it still feels to me like he's being rushed for no readily apparent reason.

[jonovision]

I'd love to see any form of stutter-step on a penalty kick banned, but if not, it seems only fair that you can't force a retake if a keeper leaves his line because of the stutter.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

On the pitch the Whitecaps are hopeless, it is not a problem at all with paper, GdelQ. No one is disappointed by paper, it is football that is getting people down.

As for the squad, then great, whatever squad you are talking about.

The current coach is hopelessly lost and needs to be immediately sacked, he has lost it and is embarrassing the organization.

Yeah, they're hopeless right now.  But it's a competitive league and they just brought in quite a few new faces.  No coach can wave a magic wand and create chemistry immediately.  They literally just need time.  

This is the problem with sports in general in Canada.  Have an "off" season, get immediately canned.  No time to go through adversity with a group and build chemistry.  You see it with all the hockey teams as well.

I was sitting watching tennis at a local tournament with some old guy from the states and he put in in a way that struck me.  He basically just said (referring to our attitude towards hockey players) "No put-up's, only put-downs"

I don't want us to become like the hockey franchises where absolutely no setbacks are tolerated.  FFS everyone is so ridiculously pessimistic and they cloak it in this BS "we're the realistic ones"

Mark my words, If robbo gets canned it's gonna be another long wait before the Caps are in the contender mix again.  If they keep him on for a season, they'll be in the hunt next year.

Agree to disagree I guess, and only time will tell.

Edit: and sorry, in terms of on the pitch vs on paper, I'm not disagreeing with you, they've been shit, I'm basically just making the case that I don't think it's all that surprising and I don't think robbo is to blame for a lack of offensive chemistry.  Like really, how many games has barnes had with the club? 4?  5?

[shermanator]

16 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

But as far as the Whitecaps are concerned, I really truly believe that they are a season away from being a legit contender, and I think the case I'm about to make to you is fairly logical.  

I think you couldn't be further from the truth on this statement. This team looks about the furthest thing from a contender right now.

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

3 hours ago, shermanator said:

I think you couldn't be further from the truth on this statement. This team looks about the furthest thing from a contender right now.

thats not what I'm saying.  I don't think they look like a contender right now either.  

They look like shit, we all know that.

But barnes is brand spanking new, scooter is out, and kudo and perez are both still fairly new.  If I had to guess I would say they are just starting to incorporate into the team now(excluding barnes, who will need the summer, realistically).  At least last year there weren't a ton of new faces that needed time to integrate into the team.  

Just.. look at it this way.  You just started a new job.  You know MAYBE one person there.  You're a fairly serious and reserved person, you want to make the right impression, but there is pressure to get the job done.  How long do you think it takes you to feel fully comfortable there?

I know, I know, they're professional athletes, they get paid a lot of money.  But they're humans.  The reality of humans is that they take time to develop relationships.  Thats what good offence takes is good relationships.  

I said they're a season away.  Let's see what happens next year and not call for anyone's head this summer please.  If by next year the situation is the same, i'll grab a pitchfork with you and we can burn it all down.

If everyone is going to disagree with me, can we at least try and figure out what we're disagreeing about?

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

Also, sorry, getting a little fired up.  Been drinking too much coffee i think.  little on edge.

 

[Dub Narcotic]

This team's collapse has been shocking.

[Unnamed Trialist]

7 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Mark my words, If robbo gets canned it's gonna be another long wait before the Caps are in the contender mix again.  If they keep him on for a season, they'll be in the hunt next year.

Agree to disagree then. The players are begging for a new coach, and Robbo has resigned. He has no right to continue next year, unless someone wants to be nice to him, adopt him as a form of charity or something.

This business of just signing new players because you don't know what to do with the guys you yourself signed five months ago, you trained in preseason, you worked to get on your side--that is just plain amateur.

Instead of fixing what is wrong, he is blaming the players, effectively, underminding his own squad. He's allowed by the FO to flee from responsibility from being a proper coach by signing, imagine what the guy must be saying to Lenarduzzi: "Yeah, well, we tried, him didn't work, could not learn my impeccable system, have to get another." And Bobby: "Yeah, great system Robbo, you are coaching maestro, beautiful system, dumb-ass players can't figure it out, so go for it, tell me who you want."

And Robbo comes up with Giles Barnes, in August, frigging Giles Barnes. 

Every day he is in front of this squad is another day wasted.

[TRM]

I only hope that they have someone lined up and don't do what they did last time they got rid of a coach (flail, fail and settle for the assistant who by his own admission wasn't ready).

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

13 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

Agree to disagree then. The players are begging for a new coach, and Robbo has resigned. He has no right to continue next year, unless someone wants to be nice to him, adopt him as a form of charity or something.

This business of just signing new players because you don't know what to do with the guys you yourself signed five months ago, you trained in preseason, you worked to get on your side--that is just plain amateur.

Instead of fixing what is wrong, he is blaming the players, effectively, underminding his own squad. He's allowed by the FO to flee from responsibility from being a proper coach by signing, imagine what the guy must be saying to Lenarduzzi: "Yeah, well, we tried, him didn't work, could not learn my impeccable system, have to get another." And Bobby: "Yeah, great system Robbo, you are coaching maestro, beautiful system, dumb-ass players can't figure it out, so go for it, tell me who you want."

And Robbo comes up with Giles Barnes, in August, frigging Giles Barnes. 

Every day he is in front of this squad is another day wasted.

eh, fair enough.  Just wanted to clarify what I meant.  I was just getting roasted all around haha 

I guess if I had a thesis it would just be that sometimes too much personnel turnover is just as harmful as not enough.  

[BearcatSA]

In my opinion the only key injury that has really changed things for them this year may have been that of Manneh and his threat off the counterattack, regardless of his consistency issues.  Otherwise, the decisions to unload Beitashour and Koffie to help subsidize attacking pieces hasn't panned out.  The recent personnel moves have been more straw clutches than tinkers and fine-tunes.  Robinson and his coaching/personnel staff are like the engineers manning the pumps below the decks of the Titanic trying to buy time for a miracle.

The team's taken far too big a step backwards this season.  I just don't think it's an "off year."  Too much under delivery in performance here.

 

[shermanator]

Don't forget that the Whitecaps did not look great in the latter half of the 2015 season, and looked just as uninspired against the Timbers as they have all 2016. Yes, they did win a bye into the second round, but it was on the backs of their hot start to the 2015 season.

I think their form in the first half of 2015 was a mirage and what we are seeing are the real Whitecaps.

[Unnamed Trialist]

I was listening to Team 1040 this afternoon, no idea who that was, so clued out I am, and they were hitting pretty hard. And indicating that the criticisms are coming in hard from a lot of angles, from the hardcores (mentioning Southsiders, Curva), and the casual fans, who they think will stop going if it stays like this. So feel somewhat vindicated in my views, as I see I am not at all alone, and pleased that Caps fans are not going to put up with such a bad product, and so poorly handled. So credit to the Caps fans all around.

The Committee: did not fully grasp this, but Caps are run by a committee and the press does not really know who is definitely on it. They spread out responsibility that way, but basically no one takes it full on, apart from Lenarduzzi being the usual spokesperson. This is fine, if they don't want us to know who is responsible, but a message to them: if you tolerate garbage and are incompetent to correct it, you should be replaced. This is not a job for people wanting to be some doorknob ornament, it is not a perk, it is not a fun thing to do in your spare time. It is not community service. If you are not up to the task, time to hire a new and fully professional sports management team to get excellence out of the team in all departments. 

Right now Whitecaps FC offers an inferior product to their fans, seems fine with that, don-t care their standards are down, and to top it off are arrogant about things (throwing the Crystal Palace match in there, letting the manager say the Concacaf Champ;ions was less important, incredible cop out)

Robinson: he's a nice guy, sweet and good hearted, but life is hard in this game. He knows it, anyone who has been in Europe knows perfectly well it is nine times more intense anywhere in pro football back home. Robinson knows he's been getting off easy here, but has basically had no answers for quite a while now. He has already resigned, he has placed his own left foot out the door. The least you can ask for is to rectify errors, to analyze honestly and not lie to yourself, and to react, not be a piece of flotsam floating down a river which is what he is right now. A piece of flotsam saying the river is flowing quite nicely thanks.

Players: I agree that this squad is good enough to get more out of, apart from a few details. It is not elite, we have no real stars, but there is enough hunger there and desire to win that much more could be had. There is also talent, a mixed bag of it, and enough depth. A playoff spot has to be a minimum requirement, and I am sure the players see this clear as day. So I take most of the blame of off of them, with a few exceptions (Morales has to do way more). What we really need are team leaders to step up, and fill the gap the coach is sadly leaving, he can't do it all.

Reffing: this is nice to hear, refing excuses. No winning team relies on them, they really make little difference normally, only they are a way to keep a league sharp and the refs aware you are not going to put up with garbage, as Caps have I believe, more than our share. But this is the FO, if you want your coach to be a nice guy and magnanimous and not get fined, then you bloody well be on the phone from the FO telling the league what you think when you-ve been screwed yet again. But this FO is really inhibited this way and we have been hurt by it this year.

Fans: Vancouver, let's face it, it is not a winning city. And I think fans are a bit naive in this regard, we feel we are good, deserve to be winners, but really are not. We've fallen short in sports more than we've made the grade, in hockey, we lost basketball, even CFL we are just okay. In soccer, we have won though in NASL, in old USL, and getting an MLS team seemed like just the first step towards being a dominant team in the league in due time. We should be, like our Cascadia rivals and 4-5 more, one of the top 10 teams every year. We are so far off that goal it is not funny, we have really had just one good year, last year, and then it was only up to early August or so.

As a fan I am fine with asking the FO, coaching staff and players to seriously go into a season with every possible trophy as a reality to be strived for, in a driven way, from start to finish. To have silverware as our blood in a zombie frenzy start to finish. Vancouver has to sit up and tell its fans it is going for the MLS Cup, once and for all. Why are they so damn afraid to say it?

[BearcatSA]

12 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

So I take most of the blame of off of them, with a few exceptions (Morales has to do way more). What we really need are team leaders to step up, and fill the gap the coach is sadly leaving, he can't do it all.

That's been glaring.  Apart from the keeper, there's been no on field leadership presence, and perhaps one of the reasons that Edgar has been brought in, don't know.

[Unnamed Trialist]

A pretty good overview of the general tone, we can disagree on the details but this is where we sit I think. 

For me, Robinson is not in a position to repeat next year unless he does an immediate turn around and it shows.

http://aftn.ca/where-do-vancouver-whitecaps-current-problems-lie/

 

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

7 hours ago, BearcatSA said:

That's been glaring.  Apart from the keeper, there's been no on field leadership presence, and perhaps one of the reasons that Edgar has been brought in, don't know.

 

19 hours ago, Unnamed Trialist said:

What we really need are team leaders to step up, and fill the gap the coach is sadly leaving, he can't do it all.

 

Definitely agree with this sentiment, but just to play devils advocate, with all the fresh faces, perhaps there has been a reshuffling of the hierarchy, and perhaps Morales no longer feels as though he is the De Facto leader.  It's not necessarily an excuse, but I think it's reasonable to suggest that fresh faces may have disrupted the natural order that was there before.

[TRM]

That was more like it. Yes it was only a draw but we played very solid defending and lived for the counter which was our route to 3rd in the league last year. That was, and should be, our identity.

LA had 70% possession and yet we had the best chances. Hurtado was the difference as he provided the speed that was missing since Manneh's injury.

Having Smith at RB with Aird in front of him at RM worried me but they seemed to work well. Aird also provided some much needed speed on the counter. On the other side MDJ played as good as I've ever seen him and Pedro really came back on defence.

[shermanator]

Based on this Tweet (with ultimately very limited context), it will be Pedro Morales' last year in MLS. Probably best for both parties to move on.

 

[shermanator]

Here's the interview. Not 100% definitive of an answer but looks like he'll be leaving:

http://globalnews.ca/video/2912368/end-of-the-line-for-whitecaps-captain-pedro-morales

[shermanator]

Anyone who rips on Tosaint Ricketts needs to watch Erik Hurtado for a game. He's probably squandered 5 or 6 fantastic opportunities in the first half. 

[Forlorn]

About 8 or so great chances for Hurtado and he missed the net on all but one I think.

[Floortom]

Hurtado with one of the worst matches you will ever see from a striker. Shocking that he didn't end up with at least a hat trick 

[TRM]

And there in lies the problem. We go from a high paid DP forward who does everything a forward should but can't score to a much lower paid forward who does everything a forward should but can't score.

We just can't score. 12 shots, ZERO on target, 0 goals. LA 11 shots 3 on target zero goals. SKC (MLS) 11 shots, 2 on target, zero goals. Quakes 12 shots, 6 on target (well I'll be dipped in dogshit!! we actually hit the fscking net half the time!) 1 goal. Rapids 8 shots, 3 on target, zero goals. Dallas 6 shots, 1 on target, zero goals. Houston 9 shots, 4 on target, zero goals.

You have to go back to Orlando on JULY 16th to where we were reasonably functional offensively with 16 shorts, 6 on net and 2 goals.

Rebuild is in store. No don't fire Robo. Let him ride out the season because we are toast anyway. Use the extra time to line someone up and make sure you don't end up in a gong show like when they let Rennie go and have to settle for an assistant. This is too big of a step backwards and calls for a rebuild starting with the coach.