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1 hour ago, SuperCanuck said:

The CPL being top of the pyramid is debatable until and if it gets going.  If CPL teams are seeded higher in the Voyageurs cup than the MLS teams, if the CPL has better attendance, better players, etc.

You went against everything you previously stated. You said that CHL is the #1 Canadian league and yet now you are saying attendance and better players makes the league top of the pyramid.

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2 hours ago, canta15 said:

You went against everything you previously stated. You said that CHL is the #1 Canadian league and yet now you are saying attendance and better players makes the league top of the pyramid.

I said I prefer the CHL because it's more real and it's still ours.   If something becomes #1 just because I like it, things are going to change quite drastically in Canada.  Please don't misquote me.

Once again, now back to the CPL thread. 

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I think it's important for Canada to be a part of the MLS. Regardless of how well the CPL fares it will never have the global reach, resources and backing of the MLS, which has the potential to be one of the top 10 world league's imo. 

I think the have to be new teams for the CPL other than Ottowa/edmonton. If they want in.

While the USL exists there is no chance of the whitecaps 2/fc Montreal or tfc2 being involved. That is a good thing too imo, as it would just cheapen the CPL having a 2nd team involved. Should the USL teams be involved in the voyaguers cup? I can appreciate the arguments for no, but if they weren't allowed to field main roster player's I don't see a problem with it. Again the whitecaps/TFC/Montreal wouldn't be interested because that's not what the 2ND teams are there for and they wouldnt be equipped or interested in a potential champions league campaign. 

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1 hour ago, Keegan said:

I can't see CPL being top of our pyramid with MLS teams around.  That's like us starting a domestic pro hockey league and putting it above the NHL... not gonna happen.  The money league, in this case MLS, will be the top of the pyramid and CPL will be 2nd tier feeding players into it.

I was thinking of our system like the welsh. Their premier league is at the top of their pyramid but the quality is miles behind Cardiff and Swansea. (Even Newport)

Edited by Guest
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1 hour ago, Keegan said:

I can't see CPL being top of our pyramid with MLS teams around.  That's like us starting a domestic pro hockey league and putting it above the NHL... not gonna happen.  The money league, in this case MLS, will be the top of the pyramid and CPL will be 2nd tier feeding players into it.

Yes, but the CPL isn't going up against a NHL/NBA (best leagues in their respective sports) type league. MLS is a mild inconvenience at best that can be easily challenged. 

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24 minutes ago, canta15 said:

I was thinking of our system like the welsh. Their premier league is at the top of their pyramid but the quality is miles behind Cardiff and Swansea. (Even Newport)

Well, having teams playing in another country's top league is where the comparison starts and ends. Teams in the Welsh top division play in 1000 seater stadiums akin to our rogue CSL. The CPL is planning to be a lot more ambitious and the quality gap between that league and MLS will be a lot closer than the EPL and the Welsh league.

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12 hours ago, toontownman said:

Should the USL teams be involved in the voyaguers cup? I can appreciate the arguments for no, but if they weren't allowed to field main roster player's I don't see a problem with it. Again the whitecaps/TFC/Montreal wouldn't be interested because that's not what the 2ND teams are there for and they wouldnt be equipped or interested in a potential champions league campaign. 

No thanks. I'd rather the spot went to an amateur/semi-pro club's first-term, than to MLS stiffs.

If you're not aware, the USSF recently moved to exclude USL reserve teams from the US Open Cup.

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1 hour ago, Macksam said:

Yes, but the CPL isn't going up against a NHL/NBA (best leagues in their respective sports) type league. MLS is a mild inconvenience at best that can be easily challenged. 

I see what you're saying and it's a valid point.  But at the same time, MLS teams are getting to the level where they are dishing out NHL level salaries to top players... there is no chance any CPL teams will have a team salary of $7 million, let alone pay one player that amount.  

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29 minutes ago, Keegan said:

I see what you're saying and it's a valid point.  But at the same time, MLS teams are getting to the level where they are dishing out NHL level salaries to top players... there is no chance any CPL teams will have a team salary of $7 million, let alone pay one player that amount.  

This is true to. However, it is a grave misallocation of resources on the league's part. If the powers to be at MLS had any decent vision, they would annex the stupid dp rule and have the salary cap at 15 million dollars and increase the foreign slots to 50% of the entire roster. That right there would take the league to the next level and make it harder for a CPL type league to compete.

Edited by Macksam
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22 hours ago, Blue and White Army said:

No chance the three MLS teams would leave MLS.

Best scenario is to eventually create (rival) CPL clubs in those three cities. Would make for a tasty Voyageurs Cup!

Guys let look at the Bigger Picture:

The MLS teams are actually our CPL/C-League meal tickets to huge expansion money in the next three years or so after the Launch. It`s estimated that Expansion fees could be a whopping 40 million dollars with the amount of resources and investment money thrown at marketing the C-League.

With the launch of the CPL it`s a sure guarantee that all out Youth and Amateur clubs in each cities will join and develop affiliation with CPL teams thus creating a much larger financial scope than i have seen any one here talked about.

Leave the MLS Canada to teams to do their thing, CPL Canada will finally be that Arena that Provides for our aspiring youths wanting to play the sports of soccer Professionally. CPL will do a lot more for Canadians.  

At the stage where the MLS Canada teams are, they can actually Leave MLS at any time without any difficulties as the contract which they have in place was and is for the developments of the game in Canada, the game is developed they have accomplished there mission to the point where we can now say lets form our own League, instead of forming our own Canadian League, the Whitecaps, the impact and TFC Reds has decided to hold hostage and control Professional Soccer in Canada amongst the big three.

With the Formation of the CPL/C-League we are then expanding to the wants/needs of our soccer supporters and National Team players by providing a professional League for all Canadians whom choose Soccer as their trade and the fans in St Johns or Regina etc who wants a team of their own. 

This One team for All, and all for One team wont cut it anymore :rolleyes: No pun intended!!!!

  

Edited by Futballer
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10 minutes ago, Futballer said:

Guys let look at the Bigger Picture:

The MLS teams are actually our CPL/C-League meal tickets to huge expansion money in the next three years or so after the Launch. It`s estimated that Expansion fees could be a whopping 40 million dollars with the amount of resources and investment money thrown at marketing the C-League.

With the launch of the CPL it`s a sure guarantee that all out Youth and Amateur clubs in each cities will join and develop affiliation with CPL teams thus creating a much larger financial scope than i have seen any one here talked about.

Leave the MLS Canada teams to do their thing, CPL Canada will finally be that Arena that Provides for our aspiring youths wanting to play the sports of soccer Professionally. CPL will do a lot more for Canadians.  

At the stage where the MLS Canada teams are, they can actually Leave MLS at any time without any difficulties as the contract which they have in place was and is for the developments of the game in Canada, the game is developed they have accomplished there mission to the point where we can now say lets form our own League, instead of forming our own Canadian League, the Whitecaps, the impact and TFC Reds has decided to hold hostage and control Professional Soccer in Canada amongst the big three.

With the Formation of the CPL/C-League we are then expanding to the wants/needs of our soccer supporters and National Team players by providing a professional League for all Canadians whom choose Soccer as their trade and the fans in St Johns or Regina etc who wants a team of their own. 

This One team for All, and all for One team wont cut it anymore :rolleyes: No pun intended!!!!

  

 

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1 minute ago, Futballer said:

Guys let look at the Bigger Picture:

The MLS teams are actually our CPL/C-League meal tickets to huge expansion money in the next three years or so after the Launch. It`s estimated that Expansion fees could be a whopping 40 million dollars with the amount of resources and investment money thrown at marketing the C-League.

With the launch of the CPL it`s a sure guarantee that all out Youth and Amateur clubs in each cities will join and develop affiliation with CPL teams thus creating a much larger financial scope than i have seen any one here talked about.

Leave the MLS Canada to teams to do their thing, CPL Canada will finally be that Arena that Provides for our aspiring youths wanting to play the sports of soccer Professionally. CPL will do a lot more for Canadians.  

At the stage where the MLS Canada teams are, they can actually Leave MLS at any time without any difficulties as the contract which they have in place was and is for the developments of the game in Canada, the game is developed they have accomplished there mission to the point where we can now say lets form our own League, instead of forming our own Canadian League, the Whitecaps, the impact and TFC Reds has decided to hold hostage and control Professional Soccer in Canada amongst the big three.

With the Formation of the CPL/C-League we are then expanding to the wants/needs of our soccer supporters and National Team players by providing a professional League for all Canadians whom choose Soccer as their trade and the fans in St Johns or Regina etc who wants a team of their own. 

This One team for All, and all for One team wont cut it anymore :rolleyes: No pun intended!!!!

  

You lost me at $40 Million per expansion fee.  Sorry but thats too ambitious and delusional.  Its like all thr Duane Rollins have come outta the woodshed recently.  If you want to argue realistically, best case scenario is the some owners in Victoria are the CPL team owners.  No chance in hell someone would risk competing against the Caps and Caps2 team in rhe Lower Mainland.  Maybe from Abbotsford out too they can get a franchise.  Also the revenues created by the CPL will never match MLS coffees, so I doubt the Caps will ever move on.  People need to accept that CPL will be equivalent to USL or lower standards.  There's not enough quality Canadian players to raise that standard.  The best case scenario for the MLs teams to buy in the CPL team is let there USL teams in.  Maybe Caps 2 youngsters, but people would pay more to watch the next Jason Devos, or Argentinian DP getting some playing time after injurt, compared to watching an average joe Canadian.  The Voyageurs are unfortunately just one small section of paying fans.

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1 hour ago, Macksam said:

This is true to. However, it is a grave misallocation of resources on the league's part. If the powers to be at MLS had any decent vision, they would annex the stupid dp rule and have the salary cap at 15 million dollars and increase the foreign slots to 50% of the entire roster. That right there would take the league to the next level and make it harder for a CPL type league to compete.

Well it is MLS and as the "commish" said they makeup rules as they go along. I realize they have a players agreement to deal with. But still I could see them pull some stunt put of the blue such as finally treating Canadians as domestic.  Then saying you see, why do you need a league.

 

Further to that the CSA needs to have something in place in order for MLS Not to cherry pick any further Successful Canadian Market.

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The problem is that here in Canada we are dominated by American culture more so than most countries around the world just for the fact that we are so close and that one of our official languages is also their language. I mean what does it say about us when our most popular sport a sport that we invented and that symbolizes Canada does not have a national pro league to ourselves instead we play in a league were the vast majority of teams are American cities. If the Canadian NHL cities pulled out and formed our own league and maybe added another say four Canadian cities would this new league be as financially rich as the NHL is today? Would this new league with these former Canadian NHL franchises included in it be  able to pay the same player salaries as the NHL pays today?  Why do players in the CFL make so much less than NFL players, it's not even close? The point I'm trying to make is to some people on here wondering if this proposed new CPL would entice the Canadian MLS teams to join one day. They might if this new CPL rivaled the MLS financially one day where for example player salaries were almost the same and quality of play was pretty even. The only way this would happen would be if the MLS stagnated did not grow revenue wise just stayed the same. If the MLS continues growing then this CPL will be like comparing the CFL financially to the NFL in a certain way. There is a reason why even our number one sport plays in a mainly American dominated league franchise wise the NHL, it's because there is more money to be made playing in  a North American league for these Canadian franchises than it is in a Canadian only hockey league of their own. At one time we were on our way with the old CSL if that league had lasted we would be having a different discussion now, however, we did not have the real rich owners in the CSL back then, if we would have had the NHL or even the CFL type owners back then maybe that league could have survived. Look I'm not against this new CPL at all I think if managed properly it could turn out to be a viable league in the cities in Canada that don't have an MLS team right now, but I just don't see it rivaling the MLS in terms of money as long as the MLS continues to grow financially, if the MLS falters then that is another story, but in Canada just like the other sports we like to play in North American leagues because that's were these owners see more money potential. Moreover, if the rich guys in our other big cities like Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Winnipeg had the opportunity to join the MLS and the MLS wanted them I think it would not take much to entice them, I truly believe that some or most of these Canadian cities could support an MLS team with the proper stadium which out of the cities I mentioned only two have viable stadiums Ottawa and Winnipeg with Winnipeg stadium being the best of the two.

Edited by 1996
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1 hour ago, 1996 said:

The problem is that here in Canada we are dominated by American culture more so than most countries around the world just for the fact that we are so close and that one of our official languages is also their language. I mean what does it say about us when our most popular sport a sport that we invented and that symbolizes Canada does not have a national pro league to ourselves instead we play in a league were the vast majority of teams are American cities. If the Canadian NHL cities pulled out and formed our own league and maybe added another say four Canadian cities would this new league be as financially rich as the NHL is today? Would this new league with these former Canadian NHL franchises included in it be  able to pay the same player salaries as the NHL pays today?  Why do players in the CFL make so much less than NFL players, it's not even close? The point I'm trying to make is to some people on here wondering if this proposed new CPL would entice the Canadian MLS teams to join one day. They might if this new CPL rivaled the MLS financially one day where for example player salaries were almost the same and quality of play was pretty even. The only way this would happen would be if the MLS stagnated did not grow revenue wise just stayed the same. If the MLS continues growing then this CPL will be like comparing the CFL financially to the NFL in a certain way. There is a reason why even our number one sport plays in a mainly American dominated league franchise wise the NHL, it's because there is more money to be made playing in  a North American league for these Canadian franchises than it is in a Canadian only hockey league of their own. At one time we were on our way with the old CSL if that league had lasted we would be having a different discussion now, however, we did not have the real rich owners in the CSL back then, if we would have had the NHL or even the CFL type owners back then maybe that league could have survived. Look I'm not against this new CPL at all I think if managed properly it could turn out to be a viable league in the cities in Canada that don't have an MLS team right now, but I just don't see it rivaling the MLS in terms of money as long as the MLS continues to grow financially, if the MLS falters then that is another story, but in Canada just like the other sports we like to play in North American leagues because that's were these owners see more money potential. Moreover, if the rich guys in our other big cities like Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa and Winnipeg had the opportunity to join the MLS and the MLS wanted them I think it would not take much to entice them, I truly believe that some or most of these Canadian cities could support an MLS team with the proper stadium which out of the cities I mentioned only two have viable stadiums Ottawa and Winnipeg with Winnipeg stadium being the best of the two.

Soccer is completely different. It's a global sport, and MLS is no where near the top league in the world. With how it's set up now, MLS will never help Canada compete on a global level. The same can't be said for hockey.

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4 hours ago, nolbertos said:

You lost me at $40 Million per expansion fee.  Sorry but thats too ambitious and delusional.  Its like all thr Duane Rollins have come outta the woodshed recently.  If you want to argue realistically, best case scenario is the some owners in Victoria are the CPL team owners.  No chance in hell someone would risk competing against the Caps and Caps2 team in rhe Lower Mainland.  Maybe from Abbotsford out too they can get a franchise.  Also the revenues created by the CPL will never match MLS coffees, so I doubt the Caps will ever move on.  People need to accept that CPL will be equivalent to USL or lower standards.  There's not enough quality Canadian players to raise that standard.  The best case scenario for the MLs teams to buy in the CPL team is let there USL teams in.  Maybe Caps 2 youngsters, but people would pay more to watch the next Jason Devos, or Argentinian DP getting some playing time after injurt, compared to watching an average joe Canadian.  The Voyageurs are unfortunately just one small section of paying fans.

MLS is having a difficult time generating any sort of meaningful TV viewership, and it's not changing anytime soon. Relatively (key word) speaking, I foresee the Canadian public latching onto the CPL a lot quicker and a lot faster than it's American counterpart has or will with MLS. What I'm trying to say is never say never when it comes to revenues.

Starting out, the CPL will probably be on the same playing level as the USL. However, that will just be a growing pain.

 

Edited by Macksam
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I too believe Canada's league will not rival the Mls. There probably will be some upsets in the CL but i believe the Mls will be growing a lot and attracting more big stars. Money and attendance will be a big favtor also.

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3 hours ago, nolbertos said:

  No chance in hell someone would risk competing against the Caps and Caps2 team in rhe Lower Mainland.  

Metro Vancouver is large enough to support a CPL club and the Caps. Will be better for the CPL club to be a distance from the Caps home BC Place like in Surrey but Burnaby's Swangard or New West could also work. 

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1 hour ago, canta15 said:

I too believe Canada's league will not rival the Mls. There probably will be some upsets in the CL but i believe the Mls will be growing a lot and attracting more big stars. Money and attendance will be a big favtor also.

Why are we already concerned if the level reaches MLS status or not? If players outgrow the league and move on. Fantastic. That's how it works everywhere in the world.

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19 hours ago, Aird25 said:

Soccer is completely different. It's a global sport, and MLS is no where near the top league in the world. With how it's set up now, MLS will never help Canada compete on a global level. The same can't be said for hockey.

I simply don't agree with that, even now it's showing fruit for Canada and the oldest team is 8. When you look at the talent in the pipeline of the three clubs and what those clubs can do for that talent over the old way of doing things. I can't see how you can't see MLS teams as a net gain. Let alone the fact that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs will probably be the primary purchaser of CPL talent as it will act as a good proving ground for a larger pool of kids.

Edited by Coramoor
fixing an error that confused the point
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47 minutes ago, Coramoor said:

I simply don't agree with that, even now it's showing fruit for Canada and the oldest team is 8. When you look at the talent in the pipeline of the three clubs and what those clubs can do for that talent over the old way of doing things. I can't see how you can see MLS teams as a net gain. Let alone the fact that the 3 Canadian MLS clubs will probably be the primary purchaser of CPL talent as it will act as a good proving ground for a larger pool of kids.

Fair enough. I hope you're right. To be fair though, I never said that MLS is not bearing fruit, or that it hasn't been a net positive. I just don't see it providing enough to get us where I'd like us to be. Or maybe we simply have different ambitions.

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