Canadian Premier League

[ted]

1 hour ago, shermanator said:

This is an interesting quote from that article:

“It’s not going to be based on anything we’ve ever had before. The reality is that a league that depends on bums in seats won’t survive.”

And no league without bums in seats can sustain a TV deal nor long survive. TV is not going to show games for long if a stadium that can hold 24,000 only has 2 - 3,000 "bums".

[shermanator]

23 minutes ago, ted said:

And no league without bums in seats can sustain a TV deal nor long survive. TV is not going to show games for long if a stadium that can hold 24,000 only has 2 - 3,000 "bums".

Agreed, this league needs bums in seats in addition to a TV deal, and good corporate sponsorship

[shermanator]

56 minutes ago, nolbertos said:

Seems to e following the MLS business plan.  Good luck to Mont Pete finding a rich investor and convincing him to lose money the first 5-10 years of its existence.  I guess if thr CPL were to want to survive, would have to be single wntity ownership or else.  I say if thats the case, might as well as the big three MLS clubs to help out and they get to have first dibs on CPL star players.  Glad that montagliani is accepting that the CPL will become a MLS feeder league to the big three MLS sides.

Well it sounds like he's already convinced Bob Young, if what was reported in that Hamilton Spectator article is to be believed.

[SuperCanuck]

14 hours ago, GuillermoDelQuarto said:

Come on folks!  This is supposed to be fun.  FFS we are getting what we all wanted aren't we?!

Cheer up.  Any requests for ideas for logos??  I'm in the artsy mood today.  

Saskatchewan?  Wheat sheafs?  Tiger lilys?  Gimme something to work with while I kill time for other teams to confirm...

As long as it's not every team wearing either blue or red top to bottom with all white change kits.

[Elgin Soccer Dad]

I've skimmed through the pages here on this post and haven't noticed this question yet. Is there any talk of the CPL being set up as a promotion/relegation league?

 

Now before I get flamed out of this topic, I realize that starting with 6 teams this question is rather moot. Not to mention, what league would a team get relegated to. But I'm a fan of this system as I believe it engenders a greater level of player development. Just wanted the question to be posed is all.

[SthMelbRed]

3 hours ago, Elgin Soccer Dad said:

I've skimmed through the pages here on this post and haven't noticed this question yet. Is there any talk of the CPL being set up as a promotion/relegation league?

 

Now before I get flamed out of this topic, I realize that starting with 6 teams this question is rather moot. Not to mention, what league would a team get relegated to. But I'm a fan of this system as I believe it engenders a greater level of player development. Just wanted the question to be posed is all.

Oh, FFS!

[Coramoor]

4 hours ago, Elgin Soccer Dad said:

I've skimmed through the pages here on this post and haven't noticed this question yet. Is there any talk of the CPL being set up as a promotion/relegation league?

 

Now before I get flamed out of this topic, I realize that starting with 6 teams this question is rather moot. Not to mention, what league would a team get relegated to. But I'm a fan of this system as I believe it engenders a greater level of player development. Just wanted the question to be posed is all.

Pro/Rel has nothing to do with player development and never will, that's one of the dumbest positions that people who espouse the system take. The fact of the matter is, academies are the first thing to get cut when a team gets relegated. Teams are less likely to play young players if they have to fight to avoid relegation because coaches have careers riding on it and it's easier to justify playing the veteran versus playing the young kid who's an unknown, that's what happened to Jordan Hamilton in Portugal. 

[m-g-williams]

15 hours ago, Elgin Soccer Dad said:

I've skimmed through the pages here on this post and haven't noticed this question yet. Is there any talk of the CPL being set up as a promotion/relegation league?

 

Now before I get flamed out of this topic, I realize that starting with 6 teams this question is rather moot. Not to mention, what league would a team get relegated to. But I'm a fan of this system as I believe it engenders a greater level of player development. Just wanted the question to be posed is all.

Realistically, I don't think that pro/rel is feasible for the CPL in Canada, at least not in the short- to medium-term. We're struggling enough as it is to establish a clear pathway in soccer development, and to get a solid, home-grown professional system. Including pro/rel would result in too much fluctuation, and with pro/rel generally not being used in North American sports leagues, I suspect most fans with misinterpret the movement of teams as league instability.

I think the most realistic option would be to follow something along the Australian model: keep the top professional league as a closed system with no pro/rel, and let the lower-level leagues use it within their own states/provinces. We're already aiming to create something akin to the Aussie National Premier Leagues through L10, PLSQ and the rumoured BC league. If we can keep that momentum and expand the game, then I think pro/rel could possibly work in another ten or 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_soccer_league_system

[Tuscan]

Here's a mock up of a franchise in Saskatoon, Saskatoon Athletic FC. Guillermo did this for me for shits n giggles about half a year ago. Badge features the Broadway Bridge as well as a Saskatoon berry. The spire at the top of the badge is the spire from the Bessborough hotel (the Castle on the Prairies).

[Tuscan]

Here's a close up of the badge he designed. Saskatoon Youth Soccer, whose colours are blue white and gold, have a similar type badge but it features a giant ugly ball as the background centerpiece, so that kills it for me. 

[Levi Oakey]

I like that logo for Sask. I think though you should totally include some of the Gold from the Youth Soccer club, partially because it is also in the flag. Green in Gold could be done very well. Think Celtic or even Australia.

 

EDIT: Added pictures

[Oranje]

1 hour ago, Tuscan said:

Here's a close up of the badge he designed. Saskatoon Youth Soccer, whose colours are blue white and gold, have a similar type badge but it features a giant ugly ball as the background centerpiece, so that kills it for me. 

If this comes to pass, they need to be nicknamed the "Berries" or "Prairie Berries" but the latter is quite long for a nickname

[Elgin Soccer Dad]

2 hours ago, m-g-williams said:

14 hours ago, Coramoor said:

Pro/Rel has nothing to do with player development and never will, that's one of the dumbest positions that people who espouse the system take. The fact of the matter is, academies are the first thing to get cut when a team gets relegated. Teams are less likely to play young players if they have to fight to avoid relegation because coaches have careers riding on it and it's easier to justify playing the veteran versus playing the young kid who's an unknown, that's what happened to Jordan Hamilton in Portugal. 

 

15 hours ago, SthMelbRed said:

Oh, FFS!

Realistically, I don't think that pro/rel is feasible for the CPL in Canada, at least not in the short- to medium-term. We're struggling enough as it is to establish a clear pathway in soccer development, and to get a solid, home-grown professional system. Including pro/rel would result in too much fluctuation, and with pro/rel generally not being used in North American sports leagues, I suspect most fans with misinterpret the movement of teams as league instability.

I think the most realistic option would be to follow something along the Australian model: keep the top professional league as a closed system with no pro/rel, and let the lower-level leagues use it within their own states/provinces. We're already aiming to create something akin to the Aussie National Premier Leagues through L10, PLSQ and the rumoured BC league. If we can keep that momentum and expand the game, then I think pro/rel could possibly work in another ten or 15 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_soccer_league_system

Interesting to see the responses I've generated from posing the pro/rel system and stating my preference for it. Realistically, I don't think pro/rel will ever be a part of US/Canada professional sport but I wanted to see what the community thoughts were. If pro/rel is part of the league, the league can stipulate maintenance of an academy presence as part of league membership. So axing an academy because of lost revenue won't become an issue. Of course, this is all speculation and creative expression inspired by this awesome news.

[Blackdude]

1 minute ago, Elgin Soccer Dad said:

Interesting to see the responses I've generated from posing the pro/rel system and stating my preference for it. Realistically, I don't think pro/rel will ever be a part of US/Canada professional sport but I wanted to see what the community thoughts were. If pro/rel is part of the league, the league can stipulate maintenance of an academy presence as part of league membership. So axing an academy because of lost revenue won't become an issue. Of course, this is all speculation and creative expression inspired by this awesome news.

I also doubt that owners would accept to do something like that. That's why pro/rel will never happen here. 

[Blue and White Army]

Only way we'll ever see pro/rel in professional Canadian/Yank leagues is if CONCACAF/FIFA forces it.

I'd love to see it, but don't hold your breath.

[MrSabiondo]

21 hours ago, Elgin Soccer Dad said:

I've skimmed through the pages here on this post and haven't noticed this question yet. Is there any talk of the CPL being set up as a promotion/relegation league?

 

Now before I get flamed out of this topic, I realize that starting with 6 teams this question is rather moot. Not to mention, what league would a team get relegated to. But I'm a fan of this system as I believe it engenders a greater level of player development. Just wanted the question to be posed is all.

To be quite serious any league especially soccer a league that wants itself to be taken seriously should embrace Promotion / Relegation. 

Promotion / Relegation creates a more naturally distributed interest of teams and not artificial teams just for sake of filling up quotas in certain Metropolitan areas.

 

 

 

[Blue and White Army]

30 minutes ago, MrSabiondo said:

To be quite serious any league especially soccer a league that wants itself to be taken seriously should embrace Promotion / Relegation. 

Promotion / Relegation creates a more naturally distributed interest of teams and not artificial teams just for sake of filling up quotas in certain Metropolitan areas.

Agreed; but for that to work, the CSA would need to prioritize the creation of provincial D3 leagues and regional D2 leagues, prior to launching the national D1 league.

Instead, they're going with franchising and a highly-centralized D1 league.

It's quite likely the CSA will follow the out-of-thin-air creation of the Australian A-League (which, interestingly, is currently franchise-based, but will be forced to adopt pro/rel in the future).

[MrSabiondo]

6 minutes ago, Blue and White Army said:

Agreed; but for that to work, the CSA would need to prioritize the creation of provincial D3 leagues and regional D2 leagues, prior to launching the national D1 league.

Very true.

[enbsports]

A real success story of grass roots soccer in a comparable market

Detroit City FC - http://home.detcityfc.com/news_article/show/612553?referrer_id=1533258

Not included in the article are tickets only $10 each yet the club is estimated to make over $200,000 in profit this year. 

Video of the game day experience: https://t.co/xKAQ1D2PJx

[Tuscan]

When it comes to Pro/Rel everyone seems to think it needs to be a system initiated right from the beginning. The way I see it, we need a D1 league to exist before the D2 and D3 levels because we simply need to build the reality of professionalism into the sport of soccer in this country, to help shed the notion of "rec only" that the general public holds. I would also argue that all stops need to be pulled in order to ensure the D1 league's continued viability; therefore, it probably has to start with a highly centric model. One thing I certainly hope is built into the league is that Pro/Rel is one of the league's milestones - Pro/Rel needs to be built into the league from the start as a goal to reach once the entire soccer pyramid is functioning healthily. Pro/Rel shouldn't be seen as a now-or-never type system to adopt - rather we should build the league, and entire Canadian soccer pyramid structure, based on the idea that Pro/Rel is a milestone goal to achieve, built into its strategic plan for, let's say, 25 years after D1 league start.

[toontownman]

34 minutes ago, Blue and White Army said:

Agreed; but for that to work, the CSA would need to prioritize the creation of provincial D3 leagues and regional D2 leagues, prior to launching the national D1 league.

Instead, they're going with franchising and a highly-centralized D1 league.

It's quite likely the CSA will follow the out-of-thin-air creation of the Australian A-League (which, interestingly, is currently franchise-based, but will be forced to adopt pro/rel in the future).

This makes the most sense. I don't think you are seeing a here is your CPL and that's it. There will hopefully be set of phases over the next couple of decades. Eventually it might lead us to the D2/3 league system. It is simply too big an ask to sort out from the start though. Could cause all manner of problems should this be the plan and not shared with clubs from the start though. The initial franchise teams certainly won't want to risk any revenue if its succesful in a promotion/relegation change and might prefer jumping ship at that point to another league. 

The club and leagues success will hinge upon a few things: 

- Educating the new supporters - Since moving to Canada I have noticed the majority of soccer haters dislike the game due to its pacing and non stop nature, vice versa with myself and hockey and football. The commercial breaks kill me and truth me told Hockey has sometimes been too fast for me to watch. While I think there is a certain amount of truth in that, It really boils down to understanding the rules and intricacies of the game, tactics and investing in the players, club etc. 

- The match day experience - They will need to find a happy medium that doesn't enrage the purists and diehards but is also accessible and different enough to hook in new fans. No messing with the rules like the laughable national indoor soccer league. Also encourage singing zones, family areas etc without the crowd hearding and canned laughter signs of when to cheer. 

- Local community outreach, interaction and involvement - This is really the most pivotal. The more the club is seen in the public eye, getting out there doing charitable work, working with local youth/adult soccer programs, having a presence at community events and involving the fans, the more it will help the above.

- Current soccer fans, voyageurs etc.. being advocates of the game and the clubs. While it is easy to pick holes and moan about the many shortcomings that will inevitably be on show while this league grows, we have to be out there promoting the league, getting people to games and going ourselves. In Saskatchewan there is certainly no lack of people with opinions on everything, there is a brutal lack of people willing to do something about it instead of being part of the problem. 

My two cents at any rate.

[Blue and White Army]

1 hour ago, Tuscan said:

The way I see it, we need a D1 league to exist before the D2 and D3 levels because we simply need to build the reality of professionalism into the sport of soccer in this country, to help shed the notion of "rec only" that the general public holds. I would also argue that all stops need to be pulled in order to ensure the D1 league's continued viability; therefore, it probably has to start with a highly centric model.

I don't disagree with this in terms of quickly creating a viable D1 league (and perhaps even creating more interest in lower-division clubs), but the centralization and creation of a D1 league out of thin air will almost inevitably mean franchising, which later becomes the greatest logistical barrier to introducing pro/rel.

[Tuscan]

That's why I suggest they need to stipulate in the original strategic plan and business plan that incorporating Pro/Rel into the overall league pyramid needs to be a goal/milestone. The initial CanPL owners need to know they are investing money initially for D1 status but that, down the line when Pro/Rel is introduced, they could see their club drop down the pyramid.

[Blue and White Army]

4 minutes ago, Tuscan said:

That's why I suggest they need to stipulate in the original strategic plan and business plan that incorporating Pro/Rel into the overall league pyramid needs to be a goal/milestone. The initial CanPL owners need to know they are investing money initially for D1 status but that, down the line when Pro/Rel is introduced, they could see their club drop down the pyramid.

Do you suggest that clubs that join the CPL after the "original six/eight" but before the hypothetical future implementation of pro/rel should pay a franchise fee?

[GuillermoDelQuarto]

6 hours ago, Oranje said:

If this comes to pass, they need to be nicknamed the "Berries" or "Prairie Berries" but the latter is quite long for a nickname

Oh hey what about a Tiger lily. its not gold, but I could find an orangy-gold for it and have it green white and orange/gold.  Decent symbol if its for the whole province anyways.  It's on the flag isn't it?