National Allegiance

[Keegan]

I'm sick of this "blame the CSA" excuse.  A player chooses another country and gives a youth coach as an excuse as to why they left.. well that makes a ton of sense.  Because that youth coach will totally be coaching you throughout your career with the MNT and none of the supporters, volunteers or citizens of this country matter. 

 

That's the number one excuse for apologists.  The CSA.  "Bustos was played out of position at the U17 WC waaaaaaah" imagine how many Brazilians, Argentinians etc. have been played out of position at the youth level, were cut or didn't like their coach... did they go off to play for their parents ancestry?  Of course not. 

 

I get that the CSA is incompetent but it's your nation you play for.  Its "OO AH CANADA" not "OO AH CANADIAN SOCCER ASSOCIATION".

[tmcmurph]

never, ever, bluff.

 

"You in or you out?".

 

A qualifying cycle?  Can't be too long,

 

I'm with you.  Looooong overdue reaction from the CSA.  

 

Life sucks.  Wear a helmet. 

 

I think just say goodbye and never call him up again and don't return his calls. He is the poster boy for this "Canada is my plan B" attitude. Get it done and over with now before we start the WCQ 2018/22 cycles. Let everyone get the message. 

 

This is so bizarre because he mostly had his soccer skills developed IN CANADA. Unlike the others who, in some people's minds, had mitigating circumstances this kid has none. 

 

Publicly tell him "Go to the Chile camp and you are out of the program for good" and then stick to it. Never let him back in. If an example needs to be made then this is the one to do it with. 

 

I used to be in the "beggars can't be choosers" and "take anyone" camp but it has turned into such a joke that it's time the CSA put their foot down (studs up, two footed, flying scissors style). No Keegan I'm not blaming the CSA or anyone except the player who is the one responsible for this choice. It is 100% his. 

[BrennanFan]

I recall Klukowski and Radzinski stating that they would not have capped for Canada if theyd have known how far theyd go.  

 

We have to start sending an U20 team to all Gold Cups.  Cap everyone and their dog.    

[tmcmurph]

I recall Klukowski and Radzinski stating that they would not have capped for Canada if theyd have known how far theyd go.  

 

We have to start sending an U20 team to all Gold Cups.  Cap everyone and their dog.    

 

That is actually a good idea. It would be a great experience for them to compete against other older players from the region. You could easily cap tie 11-15 per tournament. The results might not be great but we've got to get more creative and aggressive in cap tieing players. The whole Gold Cup tournament has turned into a cash cow for the USSF so we may as well get some benefits as well.

 

Which brings up a question I have. Is someone is cap tied to Canada for 11v11 soccer if they represent Canada in an official Futsal competition? I would hope so and it would provide another way to get more players cap tied. It is sad that we need to do this but when in Rome .....

[ray]

I recall Klukowski and Radzinski stating that they would not have capped for Canada if theyd have known how far theyd go.  

 

We have to start sending an U20 team to all Gold Cups.  Cap everyone and their dog.    

 

It is very dissapointing that some players that seemingly proudly represented Canada might have chosen another nation had they the opportunity.  I seem to recall Kevin McKenna mentioning a desire to represent Scotland several years back when he was defending Hargreaves' choice.  How many other players have thought the same way but haven't spoken out about it?

 

I sometimes wonder whether Canadian patriotism in a sporting sense only applies to hockey.  If Milos Raonic had decided to represent Serbia a couple of years ago, I doubt there would be much outcry.  A couple of years of success can make a considerable difference.  Canadian soccer needs that success very badly.  It's got to start with this group of U20s.

[ted]

I'm sick of this "blame the CSA" excuse. 

 

Actually I blame them both.

 

IF (and it is still IF) he is capped for Chile then his is a treacherous asshat who should be mocked and vilified any time he plays in Canada.

However the CSA also played their part and should have done better. At least they seem to be trying to move in the right direction, however glacially.

 

Plenty of blame to go around.

 

 

We have to start sending an U20 team to all Gold Cups.  Cap everyone and their dog.    

 

I like this plan for next time.

[thescottc]

I sometimes wonder whether Canadian patriotism in a sporting sense only applies to hockey. 

 

Lennox Lewis, Greg Rusedski and Dale Begg-Smith would agree with you. Then again, they're all douchebags so I'm somewhat glad they didn't represent us.

[Bully]

It is very dissapointing that some players that seemingly proudly represented Canada might have chosen another nation had they the opportunity.  I seem to recall Kevin McKenna mentioning a desire to represent Scotland several years back when he was defending Hargreaves' choice.  How many other players have thought the same way but haven't spoken out about it?

 

I sometimes wonder whether Canadian patriotism in a sporting sense only applies to hockey.  If Milos Raonic had decided to represent Serbia a couple of years ago, I doubt there would be much outcry.  A couple of years of success can make a considerable difference.  Canadian soccer needs that success very badly.  It's got to start with this group of U20s.

I think Canadian patriotism is just lacking in general. Perhaps it is expected due to our mosaic immigration policy. Immigrants will hang onto their values/culture, which obviously is fine and great.. But it is also respectful to address your Canadian half. Fact is, we are a nation of immigrants. 

I asked some of my relatives (2nd generation, casual sport fans) if their parents country (dangerous, war torn) came to play @ BMO who they'd cheer for.. and they all agreed it was their country of heritage. 

I don't even want to start on this.. wrote a speech on it for a class and used a Canadian soccer game vs Ecuador as an example.  It's a very touchy subject I find. Things like the olympics help with this problem and people identify with Canada. That's why we really need Canada in a WC. 

 

[Blackdude]

I recall Klukowski and Radzinski stating that they would not have capped for Canada if theyd have known how far theyd go.

We have to start sending an U20 team to all Gold Cups. Cap everyone and their dog.

What would it do the current members of the national team? And even there, don't you think that if we did that, that those multiple-nationalities players would decline just seeing how they do that? We shouldn't give preferential treatment to those players because they could play for (insert other country). I think that something like that would be even worse by the CSA. Representing your country is an honour, now this would make a mockery of our team. I don't mind having something like 5 players to captie during the tounament, but bringing a full youth team won't solve our problems because these players won't commit more if they see that. Plus what does it say to a current member of the national team that he can't play for his continenttal championship because of that? I'm sure that some of these players would retire seeing that the CSA doesn't need him because he's captied.

[Obinna]

Regarding Bustos, I can't help but wonder how much of an influence Pedro Morales had on him. I read an article back in spring (the province?) about Morales taking Bustos under his wing. 

 

Here is the article, it was indeed the province:

 

http://www.theprovince.com/sports/Whitecaps+Bustos+thrilled+having+Morales+mentor/9602225/story.html

 

Not hard to imagine Morales whispering in his ear, or at the very least giving him advice. Likely that Bustos has asked Morales what playing for Chile is like.

[Obinna]

Regarding national allegiance, it is definitely not clear cut.

 

Admittedly, as a Nigerian Canadian, I would have a tough time choosing a nation if both came calling. Many factors to consider.

 

I would want to wear the maple leaf because I would want to do my part in changing the perception that our country doesn't have talent. Nothing bugs me more than people who have this erroneous perception. Having played in the system here at a pretty decent level, I have an emotional attachment to Canadian Soccer and would be proud to help bring this country success.

 

From a Nigerian perspective, I would understand that my chances of playing in a world cup would increase. However, a bigger draw would be the opportunity to better connect with my heritage. Home games would give me more exposure to my fathers homeland, and he would be extremely proud to see me wear white and green. My mother (a 6th or 7th - at least - generation Canadian), does not share the same sense of nationalism for Canada that my dad has for Nigeria. If anything she is more proudest to be a Newfoundlander first - and a Canadian second. 

 

That last fact in itself is perhaps quite telling. I honestly believe that Canadians on a whole are not very nationalistic relativity speaking. For starters, regionalism is very strong in this vast country of ours, and secondly, we lack unifying factors to bring us together. Tim Hortans coffee and coping with harsh winters don't count in my view.

 

 

Anyways, just a little personal view of how I see things. I imagine many duel national Canadians share a similar story. 

[Fort York Redcoat1555362293]

 

It's also why I'm one of the Voyageurs that speaks out against being SO open to naturalizing players, because I feel that it would be then hypocritical to BE critical (wordplay) of players that choose to not represent Canada, whether they are good enough for their home country or not.  That said, it's a touchy issue, that isn't white and black.  Some players move to Canada at, say, the age of 12.  Some at 14.  Is there a line?  Where do you draw it?  

 

I don't believe you CAN draw a line, I only believe that everyone has their own feelings on the subject, and that it can be a very TOUCHY subject.

 

 

Why is it such a problem in this country to be hypocritical? Thanking a player that's naturalzed for choosing our country and chastising one who leaves is completely natural to being a supporter. Support in principle is bias. It may be hypocritical but who cares if it's fair?

[ThatDaveCh]

^In the same light as the post above, I'll share my thoughts.

So my parents immigrated from Poland 22 years ago. I, however, was born in Edmonton. My first language was Polish. I attend a Polish church every week, and am active in Edmonton's Polish community.

But, if having to choose, I'd choose Canada.

Why? Because as much as I "feel" Polish, I'm not. I know that. My language ability isn't that of a native, I'm not actively engaged in the culture WITHIN Poland, I don't study there or work there. My tie to Poland is that my bloodlines run deep in that country. I'm a Polish-Canadian, not a Canadian-Pole. The difference is slight, but my heart lies with my own. My own being the Tim Hortons drinking, winter enduring, poutine loving, Maple Leaf waving, cultural mosaic of people that I live and interact with every day. As much as I'd like to wear the white eagle over my heart, the pride I'd have would not be the same as any native Pole. Heck, I feel much more pride wearing my FC Edmonton kit than I do anything else. Edmonton, and all of Canada is where I call home, the maple leaf is a reflection of my true living identity, and the CSA logo would bring me more pride than any emblem ever could.

Enough of my sappy Canadian feelings. Onto the question at hand.

I don't think it should be all too difficult of a decision for the CSA. If you are in our program, if you've developing with our tax payers money, you will wear Canadian red. Simple. If you don't agree, or if the parents don't agree, then they can move to their countries of heritage and try there. We have proud Canadians representing in leagues world-wide, but we know that they dream of representation. Yet (I have to) Marco, who is born here, plays under the Whitecaps, is praised as being an up and coming Canadian player, decides to give Chile a try "just because he can." It's unfair, I see it as disrespectful, and frankly I don't want to see it on our pitch that those who wear our kit aren't proud to do so. 

[Tuscan]

You know I just kinda don't care about this anymore. I used to care a ton when I first became hardcore with the Vs, but over the years, over the heartbreak, I just want to go out and watch good football with friends. Yes, it sucks massive donkey balls that Bustos appears to be choosing Chile over us, but who can blame him? He's been brought up on our fucking shitty system and then put through the Whitecaps Residency, which honestly doesn't seem like it has much of an end point for young Canadian players since NCAA players get chosen over them consistently. I'll stand and sing for the guys who choose to pull on the Red and White, and forget about those who've decided to go elsewhere. Life's too short to fret over this. Until we completely, uniformly revamp U12 and younger youth soccer across the country, we'll continue to have these issues. We need to become a football factory as a country before we can avoid having to worry if every young kid ends up playing for us or not.

[ted]

You know I just kinda don't care about this anymore.

 

Actually I don't really "care" all that much either. I just want an opportunity to slag off a "traitor" when he plays in front of us.

[killgod]

 

Here's another one.  This sort of thing bothers me almost as much as the players who make the poor choice themselves.

 

https://twitter.com/Humey_7/status/485556429680812032

 

Ehhh.  Players can still be friends and support each other.

[ThatDaveCh]

You know I just kinda don't care about this anymore. I used to care a ton when I first became hardcore with the Vs, but over the years, over the heartbreak, I just want to go out and watch good football with friends. Yes, it sucks massive donkey balls that Bustos appears to be choosing Chile over us, but who can blame him? He's been brought up on our fucking shitty system and then put through the Whitecaps Residency, which honestly doesn't seem like it has much of an end point for young Canadian players since NCAA players get chosen over them consistently. I'll stand and sing for the guys who choose to pull on the Red and White, and forget about those who've decided to go elsewhere. Life's too short to fret over this. Until we completely, uniformly revamp U12 and younger youth soccer across the country, we'll continue to have these issues. We need to become a football factory as a country before we can avoid having to worry if every young kid ends up playing for us or not.

I get this, and I guess I am the "hardcore V" stage, so I feel that nationalism and heartbreak. You're right that Marco is right in trying to improve his career outlook elsewhere, but the big picture is that Canadian Soccer (for understandable reasons) is the Plan B for many. Until it's no longer the case, (as you mentioned by revamping our grassroots system), it will continue to be. It just sucks that we're now in a vicious circle with the Canadian MNT sucking, wanting to develop talent, that talent leaving, and the MNT still sucking.

[xcalibre]

The older I get, the less mad I get about these defections.  Imagine it's 2007 and you're a young player like de Guzman, Hoilett, Begovic etc - Dale Mitchell presides over a 0-point, 0-goal U20 World Cup (at home!!) and is then promoted to the senior job, as everyone expected.  It would be unthinkable in almost any other nation, or at least any with any serious ambition (or the funding to achieve that ambition).

 

As a youngster with potential, would you really trust that kind of governance to help you make the most of your international career?  Would you even trust them to have the best interests of the national team at heart?  Meanwhile, you have the option of playing in a World Cup for the likes of Holland or Bosnia, and getting a dream move on the back of those performances (eg. Hargreaves to Man Utd).

 

I'd like to be more outraged, but the sheer incompetence of the CSA over the past decade makes it hard.

[TOcanadafan]

A number of things need to happen to make these defections a thing of the past.  There needs to be hope that the program is on its way to producing a team that will reach the world cup.  There needs to be "star" players of past national teams involved in policy and technical decisions who recruit and cheer-lead the program at youth level.

There is a similar parallel to be made with Canadian Basketball.  There is a swell of talent now at the youth level that see hope for the future in a program that has Steve Nash's hands and influence all over it - a man who has been at odds with the national program and its previous incompetencies.

Unfortunately, Canada soccer doesn't have a Steve Nash to pave the way, nor a Vince Carter to inspire local youth that has now produced the talent pool.  And its player pool does not really have options to switch allegiances (with the exceptions of Wiggins perhaps).  The CSA can however, continue to get their shit in order and use whatever "star power" they have to instill a sense of hope and national pride with the youth teams.

The national program will always be fighting personal greed and bloodlines.  It's a matter of making convincing arguments and having a competent program with visions of realistic success to have our young talent choose us over them.

[ThiKu]

Although there isn't a Vince Carter the Whitecaps are indeed encouraging local kids to train harder and to get better. Although this has very sadly not been born out by national team selections. Whitecaps gear, and talk of "playing for Whitecaps" can be seen and heard at every park.

[redhat]

Actually I don't really "care" all that much either. I just want an opportunity to slag off a "traitor" when he plays in front of us.

 

I feel the same Ted.  We have to concentrate and support the ones that want to play for us, rather than expend enormous energy on those who won't.