Loss of the National Football Stadium

[narduch]

lol

 

Prices on Kook Aid must be lower than I thought for you to drink so much.

 

As usual you add nothing to any conversation.

 

Just a dumb fucking troll.

[narduch]

Too bad CSA remain silent since stadium was built for them to host national soccer games and events.   

 

This is why you see supporters not bother fighting/protesting against MLSE about BMO field renovation.  

 

Its really a shame the way the CSA isn't saying anything.

 

As for TFC supporter's they have always been way too passive. Just like when management was running the team into the ground.

[Lord Bob]

As usual you add nothing to any conversation.

 

Just a dumb fucking troll.

I couldn't compete with the peerless intellectual mastery of "has nothing to do with being primadonnas, real grass simply is better for the game of soccer."

[narduch]

I couldn't compete with the peerless intellectual mastery of "has nothing to do with being primadonnas, real grass simply is better for the game of soccer."

You are a master troll.

Not as good as Trollium but a bigger douchebag for sure.

And once again you add nothing to a topic. Just troll after troll post.

[narduch]

...

[Lord Bob]

You are a master troll.

Not as good as Trollium but a bigger douchebag for sure.

And once again you add nothing to a topic. Just troll after troll post.

Can you blame me for being intimidated by your peerless rationality?

[Blackdude]

Its really a shame the way the CSA isn't saying anything.

 

As for TFC supporter's they have always been way too passive. Just like when management was running the team into the ground.

 

Sure, the CSA could talk and say hey, let's say no turf to BMO when we'll be hosting the world on turf next year. If the CSA would say one thing right now, it wouldn't be pro-grass. 

[baulderdash77]

I think everyone is complaining for no reason.  Sometimes I think people just like to complain.  This really is a win for all Toronto sports fans.

 

The Desso surface is top notch.  They're using it at so many top flight clubs in Europe with more on the way.  Clearly this is what teams will migrate to.  Us being early adopters in MLS is great; but we're not exactly pioneers in football (European or North American) with this surface.

 

It's pretty easy from a scheduling perspective to put games on alternate weekends and give time for the surface to recover.  In fact they can probably stipulate a fixed home night for the Argos - alternating Fridays so that it would be better for both teams.

 

I for one love the idea of a 30,000 seat, covered stadium with upgraded concourses and 2 video boards instead of 1.  We're going to have more of the better seats available.

[narduch]

It's pretty easy from a scheduling perspective to put games on alternate weekends and give time for the surface to recover.  In fact they can probably stipulate a fixed home night for the Argos - alternating Fridays so that it would be better for both teams.

 

How do you schedule for the playoffs? You can't just block off a bunch of dates for either the Argos or TFC. It just won't work.

 

MLS and CFL both have set playoff rounds that overlap and depend on how teams end up in the standings. You can't plan for that months in advance.

 

Then there is the issue of the Concacaf Champions League. Although the new reduced schedule helps out on that matter.

 

Plus what happens in years that Toronto and Canada host events like the Pan Am games where entire weeks are blocked out forcing scheduling nightmares?

 

-------------------------

 

Interesting that the Portland Timbers are starting to make some noise about installing real grass at Jeld-Wen Field. And one of the biggest obstacles is making it work with the college football team that they share the stadium with.

[baulderdash77]

You can schedule TFC games the day before Argos games but not the other way around if you have scheduling compression.

 

So a TFC Playoff game on a Saturday and a Argo playoff game on a Sunday.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Now I think I see where they're going with this re the Winter Classic.  It looks to me as if they will try and position it, not as a one off 100th anniversary thing (as they're saying), but as an annual festival (stealing the idea off the CFL) a Grey Cup festival for hockey, as it were.  Nothing concrete to base the idea of an annual festival on, just my opinion.

 

MLSE plans to spend big bucks to upgrade BMO Field
Kurtis Larson, Toronto Sun March 16, 2014

SEATTLE - They’re dollar figures Maple Leafs Sports and Entertainment has never before dished out.

In the neighbourhood of a quarter-billion, according to MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke, who spoke exclusively with the Toronto Sun ahead of Saturday’s Toronto FC opener here at CenturyLink Field.

Including the $100 million MLSE’s soccer club spent on a trio of players this winter, the company is also finalizing plans to spend an additional $120 million on upgrades to BMO Field this summer.

“It took a while for our board to get comfortable with this because this is the largest commitment we’ve made on a single process,” Leiweke told the Sun.

“It was critical that we take the lead, that we put up the money and we bare the brunt here,” he continued, a week after receiving unanimous approval from the Exhibition Place board of governors.

“I’m a big believer that the public sector should be worried about transportation, safety and education. We had no problem with the formula. We wanted to make sure that those who originally funded the stadium are still involved in the stadium.”

The commitment from MLSE, as Leiweke explained it, is the full $120 million, with the city, province and federal governments each contributing $10 million. The city will be paid back over 20 years, with interest. The province and feds will benefit from tax revenue.

“I don’t think it makes sense for the taxpayer to be asked to fund another stadium,” Leiweke said. “The city came along and told MLSE the conditions of a deal (to expand/renovate BMO) is you providing a permanent home for the Argos.”

A vocal minority of TFC fans hate the idea. As for the CFL’s Argonauts, they’d be homeless if MLSE elected not to move forward with the plans. The Double Blue are being kicked out of Rogers Centre in a few years’ time.

“There has been so much written about this and it amazes me that it has been this controversial,” Leiweke said. “The reality is that, originally, this stadium was meant to be a solution for the Argos as well.”

A solution for the Argos never came.

While it’s all but a lock the Boatmen will soon be playing closer to the water, the CFL club’s ownership situation is still unresolved.

News of BMO Field upgrades provided the stipulation from the city that MLSE welcomes the CFL as co-tenants has fueled speculation the Argos could soon join the Maple Leafs, Raptors and Toronto FC under the MLSE umbrella.

“People have to take a deep breath that compromise and partnership is the best way to find resolution,” Leiweke said.

“I think we owe it to the city, we owe it to the Argos to find a permanent solution. As to us buying them, on a stand-alone basis, we have no interest in the Argos. But because of the uniqueness of what we have to go through to get the stadium, we are certainly intertwined. The definition of intertwined is forthcoming.”

Also pending are construction plans. Leiweke told the Sun that shovels will hit the ground September 1 assuming the city’s executive committee and council approve.

The first phase of construction, which will include seat expansion, concourse work and the creation of suites and club seats, will end next May.

As a result, Toronto FC will likely play an additional two road games to start the 2015 season. They will not, however, be forced to find a temporary venue.

The second phase will run from Sept. 1, 2015 to May of 2016. Again, no TFC games will be moved.

As for cost overruns, MLSE is taking “100% of the risk,” he added.

Plans are for the new BMO field to seat 30,000 for soccer and 25,000 for football, with the ability to expand by an additional 10,000 seats for big events.

“When you walk into the building for a TFC game, you won’t know the Argos play there,” Leiweke said. “We’re not painting logos, so there won’t be a centre logo. The CFL logos in the end zones will be underneath the stands so you won’t see them. We’re going to work at making sure the lines go away.”

He said it was an additional $30-million commitment to make moveable stands a reality.

“We live in a different age and world now where the creativity and technology we can use to move stands in and out, to use paint that goes away, to ultimately use a turf system that gives both sides a green grass. We’re going to do all we can to protect the purity of the sport.”

Leiweke’s always speaking in soccer terms. He also quashed fears of BMO Field going back to artificial turf here Saturday, saying they’ll use an expensive hybrid surface utilized by big clubs around the world.

“We think we know how to work the schedule out,” Leiweke said. “We have eight Argos games a year. We’ll figure this out.”

He added that an MLS game will never be played the day after a CFL game, but the reverse is possible.

The high-priced off-season TFC player additions MLSE invested in were also an important first step in assuring stadium upgrades were viable.

“We have to be a good team,” Leiweke said. “The link between what we did with TFC from November on and what we’re doing with the stadium is tied hand-in-hand in order to make sure that we have a stadium that is one of the best in the league. At the same time we needed a team that guaranteed the economics of this worked so we can cover it through the private sector.”

The soon-to-be-homeless Argos are also without a training facility, meaning TFC’s Kia Training Ground at Downsview might soon have a neighbour.

“In a perfect world there’s a football field next to the Kia Training Ground,” Leiweke said. “We’ll work with Downsview to see if we can build a new facility as part of the campus.”

Which means there’s a chance, big or small, MLSE adds the Argos to their collection of teams.

“There’s always a chance,” he said. “Our first focus is TFC. Then BMO Field. We’ll see where this goes with the Argos.”

MLSE HAS EYE ON WINTER CLASSIC

BMO Field looks poised to become a year-round venue.

And, if MLSE gets its way, not only will Toronto FC and the CFL’s Argonauts share an expanded stadium, it could be the main selling point in eventually attracting a Winter Classic to a venue that will seat 40,000-plus for special events.

“We’re committed to a Winter Classic, although the NHL hasn’t committed to it yet,” MLSE CEO Tim Leiweke told the Toronto Sun in an exclusive interview prior to Saturday’s TFC-Sounders match here in Seattle.

“We’re going to give (the NHL) a very aggressive pitch and presentation on why for the Maple Leafs’ 100th anniversary, the 2018 Winter Classic would make sense in a renovated BMO Field.”

Leiweke’s vision is to turn the NHL’s marquee outdoor game into a week-long event.

“The Winter Classic would be a celebration as well,” he told the Sun. “What we envision is a massive winter festival for a week in and around Exhibition Place and Ontario Place with hockey games and youth tournaments and fan festivals and fireworks -- a celebration of our country, a celebration of the NHL and a celebration of the Leafs.”

The ability for BMO Field to stage major events is one of the main selling points in getting all levels of government onside due to the taxes generated by one-off games like the Grey Cup and Winter Classic.

Although MLSE is forking over the entire $120 million for stadium improvements, the city, province and federal government will reimburse MLSE $10 million each. The city will then be paid back for the investment over 20 years with interest.

As for the province and feds, “they get paid back very quickly,” Leiweke stressed.

“We’re asking the feds to contribute to the capacity of the stadium from 30,000 to 40,000,” Leiweke explained.

Current renderings show BMO Field expanding to 30,000 for soccer games and 25,000 for football.

Special events, though, would need to see temporary seating added to raise the seating capacity by 25%.

“The feds are giving us the resources to expand to 40,000 for our Grey Cup bids and Winter Classic bids,” Leiweke said. “That also means BMO will be eligible to be used as part of the Canadian Soccer Associations World Cup bid in 2026.”

MLSE will go before the city’s executive committee this week. It will then go to the full council in April for approval.

“This deal is completely specific to everyone ultimately participating,” Leiweke said. “MLSE has to do the work to bring the events in that gets everyone’s money back.”

The NHL’s Winter Classic has been held six times and was most recently staged at Michigan Stadium in Ann Arbor where the Leafs and Detroit Red Wings met in front of more than 100,000.

Reports have indicated the Washington Capitals are in line to host the event in 2015.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Just reading this, and seeing TFC will have two road games to start the 2015 season, i noticed nothing has been mentioned about the Pan Am Games.  Has the idea of hosting some rugby sevens games there been ditched?  I thought that would be a good excuse for fed money but there was no mention of any scheduling involving them.

[Joe MacCarthy]

Wondering what's going to happen here.

 

FINAL DRAFT FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION:
March 10, 2014
Proposal for Expansion of Stadium at Exhibition Place

MLSE acknowledges the City’s desire for completion of Phase 1 of the Stadium Improvements to be achieved by May 1, 2015 so as to ensure the availability of the Stadium for the Pan Am Games.

 

In addition, the City agrees to cooperate and assist MLSE in achieving the contractor mobilization date of July 1, 2014 in respect to the Phase 1 Seat Expansion and Additional Work and the completion of that work by May 1, 2015 for the 2015 TFC Season and for the commencement of non-exclusive use of the Stadium by TO2015 for its overlay activities in order to deliver exclusive use of the Stadium to TO2015 for the Pan Am Parapan Games during the period July 7 to July 14, 2015 and in particular, assist MLSE with expediting any permits and approvals as may be required by the City to undertake and complete the Stadium Improvements

[Sport Shaman]

Quoting narduch at 5:45 PM on March 15th:

 

"You are a master troll.

 

Not as good as Trollium but a bigger douchebag to be sure"

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

 

 

Oh come on now, don't sell yourself short! The way you have been carrying on in this thread and whining to the mods when you don't like something plus refusing to acknowledge any points that do not agree with your preconceived opinions, I think you qualify as the #1 d*****bag of this thread. Even if you aren't #1 you certainly would rank much higher than the two people you called out.

[narduch]

Wondering what's going to happen here.

FINAL DRAFT FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION:

March 10, 2014

Proposal for Expansion of Stadium at Exhibition Place

MLSE acknowledges the City’s desire for completion of Phase 1 of the Stadium Improvements to be achieved by May 1, 2015 so as to ensure the availability of the Stadium for the Pan Am Games.

In addition, the City agrees to cooperate and assist MLSE in achieving the contractor mobilization date of July 1, 2014 in respect to the Phase 1 Seat Expansion and Additional Work and the completion of that work by May 1, 2015 for the 2015 TFC Season and for the commencement of non-exclusive use of the Stadium by TO2015 for its overlay activities in order to deliver exclusive use of the Stadium to TO2015 for the Pan Am Parapan Games during the period July 7 to July 14, 2015 and in particular, assist MLSE with expediting any permits and approvals as may be required by the City to undertake and complete the Stadium Improvements

With these quick time lines I wonder how far along the design for this renovation is. The presentation a few weeks back gave an appearance that they were in the early stages. But with the dates they want to start construction and procure contractors they must be further along in the design than they are letting on.

[narduch]

Just reading this, and seeing TFC will have two road games to start the 2015 season, i noticed nothing has been mentioned about the Pan Am Games. Has the idea of hosting some rugby sevens games there been ditched? I thought that would be a good excuse for fed money but there was no mention of any scheduling involving them.

I read that as 2 additional road games to start the MLS season. Meaning they would have to start the season with 6 or 7 road games.

I'm actually wondering if the plan is to move the Argos in as early as next year.

[Joe MacCarthy]

I'm actually wondering if the plan is to move the Argos in as early as next year.

That is the plan

 

FINAL DRAFT FOR COUNCIL CONSIDERATION:

March 10, 2014

Proposal for Expansion of Stadium at Exhibition Place

Page 9

"The parties acknowledge their mutual intention that the Toronto Argonauts will commence the holding of their CFL games in the 2015 season".

...

The first phase of construction, which will include seat expansion, concourse work and the creation of suites and club seats, will end next May (2015). The second phase (roof) will run from Sept. 1, 2015 to May of 2016 (will not affect TFC nor should it Argos)

[Joe MacCarthy]

I've been reading some articles about the Seattle game and the comments some of the TFC fans are making are totally ridiculous. 

 

As I said before some are threatening cancelling their seasons tix because TFC is going to install artificial turf.  I don't know how TL can make this any more plain to some of these morons.  One guy said the Argos would be homeless with nowhere to go in 2017 and another talking about a retractable roof with solar panels.  Don't they know it's all been pretty much decided? 

 

With "fans" like that I would hope they would cancel their tix and maybe somone with half a brain would take them off their hands.

 

Thank the good Lord for the Vs, a respite from the uninformed.

[Joe MacCarthy]

With these quick time lines I wonder how far along the design for this renovation is. The presentation a few weeks back gave an appearance that they were in the early stages. But with the dates they want to start construction and procure contractors they must be further along in the design than they are letting on.

They've been looking at this a long time (Bob Hunter)  Hell, they've even got their "American dream" stadium planned.

[1996]

Many of us TFC fans don't want the Argos at BMO field no matter what TL  has to say about it and if that makes us morons and people with half a brain that's fine, I don't care what happens to the Argos or the CFL . I agree that this stadium upgrade is all about hockey and probably the pursuit of an NFL team down the road. MLSE knows that in order to renovate the stadium they need to have the Argos play there or else the city will not allow renovations to go forward, furthermore, by helping out the Argos MLSE go in the NFL good books because as we know the NFL does not come to Toronto unless the Argos are looked after. The ironic thing about this whole mess is that if someone told me 30 years a go that the Argos would be in this position where for 7 seasons there was a pro soccer team in Toronto playing in a stadium that was mainly all their own and basically built for them and the national team, while the Argos where playing in a stadium where they basically became an after thought, I would have thought they were crazy, but that is what actually happened for 7 seasons. For 7 seasons we soccer fans in Toronto had a stadium all to ourselves, so when BMO Field was mentioned the only thing that came to mind was TFC and soccer and the national team, but this is Canada and this is Toronto and how dare soccer of all sports have a stadium all to their own is what all the soccer haters must have been saying.

[johnyb]

How do you schedule for the playoffs? You can't just block off a bunch of dates for either the Argos or TFC. It just won't work.

 

MLS and CFL both have set playoff rounds that overlap and depend on how teams end up in the standings. You can't plan for that months in advance.

 

Then there is the issue of the Concacaf Champions League. Although the new reduced schedule helps out on that matter.

 

Plus what happens in years that Toronto and Canada host events like the Pan Am games where entire weeks are blocked out forcing scheduling nightmares?

 

-------------------------

 

Interesting that the Portland Timbers are starting to make some noise about installing real grass at Jeld-Wen Field. And one of the biggest obstacles is making it work with the college football team that they share the stadium with.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/p3-eavMSBnk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Playoffs?

[johnyb]

Sorry Guys don't know how to embed on the new site. After a 7 year drought, Jim Mora's "Playoffs" speech seemed relevant to this discussion.

[Greatest Cockney Rip Off]

I've been reading some articles about the Seattle game and the comments some of the TFC fans are making are totally ridiculous.

As I said before some are threatening cancelling their seasons tix because TFC is going to install artificial turf. I don't know how TL can make this any more plain to some of these morons. One guy said the Argos would be homeless with nowhere to go in 2017 and another talking about a retractable roof with solar panels. Don't they know it's all been pretty much decided?

With "fans" like that I would hope they would cancel their tix and maybe somone with half a brain would take them off their hands.

Thank the good Lord for the Vs, a respite from the uninformed.

As a West Ham season ticket holder I get reminded almost weekly that it is much easier to promise a perfect stadium redevelopment than it is to actually deliver. And now that details are starting to come out on the Olympic stadium, it is too late to do anything.

Right now is the time for TFC season ticket holders to make themselves heard. Because once it's done, there is no going back.

[narduch]

Sorry Guys don't know how to embed on the new site. After a 7 year drought, Jim Mora's "Playoffs" speech seemed relevant to this discussion.

 

LOL. I was waiting for that!

 

-------------------

 

This Saturday MLSE is hosting an event for season ticket holders to explain the stadium reno plans before the home opener.

 

I'm wondering if they will have better details.

[narduch]

As a West Ham season ticket holder I get reminded almost weekly that it is much easier to promise a perfect stadium redevelopment than it is to actually deliver. And now that details are starting to come out on the Olympic stadium, it is too late to do anything.

Right now is the time for TFC season ticket holders to make themselves heard. Because once it's done, there is no going back.

 

That's pretty much my point. What happens if it doesn't work? Once the Argos become a tenant of BMO Field they aren't leaving, even if the grass field becomes a mess.