2026 WC Bid?

[harrycoyster]

Here's the most likely way I think Canada gets a Gold Cup: Our joint bid gets accepted for 2026 and the Confederation Cup is still a thing. Since the US is holding the Confed Cup, they don't bid for the Gold Cup in 2025. 

[matty]

6 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

Here's the most likely way I think Canada gets a Gold Cup: Our joint bid gets accepted for 2026 and the Confederation Cup is still a thing. Since the US is holding the Confed Cup, they don't bid for the Gold Cup in 2025. 

I agree that's one of the front runners for how we SOLO host (2025 is the year I think a solo hosting debut should happen actually) it but highly disagree that's the ONLY (or most likely way) way. The US hosts basically because they buy it and no one else wants to. If Canada wanted to host it solo now CONCACAF would likely be game if Canada were willing to pay for it, in order to help the CPL. It would fuck with ticket sales a bit (not as much as I think you believe it will because it's four groups now and they'll avoid putting Canada, The US, Mexico and Costa Rica in the same groups) but TV, which is how CONCACAF makes most money of from it, likely won't be hurt thanks to the shared time zones between Canada and the US. A Canada solo host is not a long shot.

Personally I think we should do a hard co-host for 2021 (ask for half the games and use the 3 MLS stadiums and 3 best CPL markets) and then once CPL is more established, step aside from the Confederation Cup or whatever new World Cup prep there is and use the Gold Cup as our World Cup prep and use those 6 stadiums plus the now more established markets.

[Kent]

4 hours ago, harrycoyster said:

They sold out that game and tickets were going for $200 at game time. Remember, Gold Cup group stage games are sold as two game packages. It's just that most fans only cared about the Costa Rica v. Honduras leg.

 

The thing to remember here is that the Gold Cup host is voted on, it isn't just awarded to the US. The US wins every time because it generates crazy money and Mexico backs them. Hell, Mexico plays more friendlies in the US than they do in Mexico nowadays. Why would Mexico or Central America ever vote in favour of Canada hosting when they'd make less money and have less fan support?

Yes, I am aware of the double headers. I almost mentioned it for the same reason Gian Luca did. I also understand that the money aspect is a reason to make it difficult for someone other than USA to host. I am not talking about what is likely, but rather what should be. The other thing I don’t understand about the money thing is that we still talk about Caribbean countries not having the money to play games, and Canada not having the money to do whatever it is we want to do (hire a good coach, play big teams in friendlies, hold more youth camps, etc). So if the Gold Cup gives all these countries great riches, we don’t have much to show for it.

I just can’t imagine UEFA or CONMEBOL having the host country always being Germany or Brazil just because they would get the most money. It’s anti competitive. Maybe the introduction of the CONCACAF Club Index for the CCL is an indicator that CONCACAF is slightly more open to change to be more competitive rather than transparently all about pleasing their sugar daddy. That’s my hope at least, but I’m not holding my breath for it to happen soon.

[matty]

2 hours ago, Kent said:

Yes, I am aware of the double headers. I almost mentioned it for the same reason Gian Luca did. I also understand that the money aspect is a reason to make it difficult for someone other than USA to host. I am not talking about what is likely, but rather what should be. The other thing I don’t understand about the money thing is that we still talk about Caribbean countries not having the money to play games, and Canada not having the money to do whatever it is we want to do (hire a good coach, play big teams in friendlies, hold more youth camps, etc). So if the Gold Cup gives all these countries great riches, we don’t have much to show for it.

I just can’t imagine UEFA or CONMEBOL having the host country always being Germany or Brazil just because they would get the most money. It’s anti competitive. Maybe the introduction of the CONCACAF Club Index for the CCL is an indicator that CONCACAF is slightly more open to change to be more competitive rather than transparently all about pleasing their sugar daddy. That’s my hope at least, but I’m not holding my breath for it to happen soon.

The Caribbean nations make money off TV rights and not the ticket sales (and again ticket sales would not take the hit harry said they would as the big draw nations, including Canada, would be pooled a part so every group should be able to either sell-out or near sell-out in Canada. TV right money would depend but likely largely unchanged).

The we don't have money thing is largely crap, I don't remember where it was but the CSA has a nice account and some solid sponsors. The money the Caribbean nations that don't go make is like $100k (based on Bermuda's docs from 2013 and 2015) and it goes towards mostly local things rather than international games.

[harrycoyster]

35 minutes ago, matty said:

The money the Caribbean nations that don't go make is like $100k (based on Bermuda's docs from 2013 and 2015) and it goes towards mostly local things rather than international games.

Right. Most of the Caribbean countries rely on that money to just maintain operations/build their personal mansions and ignore the sport. They aren't likely to support anything that decreases that $100k number.

Then you also need to remember that some of these CONCACAF countries make as much money off of their US based supporters as their domestic ones. El Salvador has a population of 6.3 million. There are 2 million El Salvadorian natives in the US who have at least 3 times the buying power. The population of Jamaica is 2 million, there are 1 million Jamaican-Americans. That kind of domestic to American based consumer ratio exists for literally every country in CONCACAF except us. They all want to maintain a relationship with their (relatively) wealthy American fans. The only country in the last 10 years that I can remember voting against the US hosting the Gold Cup was Cuba, and that was basically only because they lose half their starting line-up to desertion every time they play in the US. 

 

 

[matty]

22 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

Right. Most of the Caribbean countries rely on that money to just maintain operations/build their personal mansions and ignore the sport. They aren't likely to support anything that decreases that $100k number.

Then you also need to remember that some of these CONCACAF countries make as much money off of their US based supporters as their domestic ones. El Salvador has a population of 6.3 million. There are 2 million El Salvadorian natives in the US who have at least 3 times the buying power. The population of Jamaica is 2 million, there are 1 million Jamaican-Americans. That kind of domestic to American based consumer ratio exists for literally every country in CONCACAF except us. They all want to maintain a relationship with their (relatively) wealthy American fans. The only country in the last 10 years that I can remember voting against the US hosting the Gold Cup was Cuba, and that was basically only because they lose half their starting line-up to desertion every time they play in the US. 

 

 

There was a drop in the TV income from 2013 to 2015 of like $45k (I believe they made like $130k in 2013 and then only $85k in 2015). The drop was possibly linked to the scandal but can't say for certain (Traffic were involved until 2015 and then SUM took over).

While the demographics are there in the US (BTW the demos are decent in Canada), it isn't the main reason why the US hosts every time. Venues bid for games and it is largely only American ones that bother bidding.

I agree with you that before 2025 the Gold Cup will not leave American soil. Vic has said as much. But CONCACAF are open to other nations hosting games with the US right now and Canada should go as many as it can and actually promote the games (Vic is expecting it for 2019).

Regarding what's needed to host the tournament solo (and part of why I think 2025 is when a solo run makes sense) is you need at least a dozen buildings with between 15-50k seats (about half of each) with broadcast and media set ups and a willingness to pay bills. Canada should have those buildings (or buildings that could expand to those numbers) by then, it's just a matter of the cost.

[Kent]

9 hours ago, matty said:

Regarding what's needed to host the tournament solo (and part of why I think 2025 is when a solo run makes sense) is you need at least a dozen buildings with between 15-50k seats (about half of each) with broadcast and media set ups and a willingness to pay bills. Canada should have those buildings (or buildings that could expand to those numbers) by then, it's just a matter of the cost.

I don't think you actually need a dozen buildings. The Gold Cup uses lots of stadiums because the USA is littered with big stadiums coast to coast, but it doesn't have to be like that. The World Cup is a 32 team tournament without the double headers that we do in the Gold Cup, and it gets done with 12 stadiums. A 16 team tournament with double headers I would think could be done with as little as 3 to 6 venues. You could have 1 or 2 venues per group, and reuse those stadiums for the knockout rounds. 6 stadiums could be used with 5 stadiums hosting 4 games, and 1 venue hosting 5.

[matty]

39 minutes ago, Kent said:

I don't think you actually need a dozen buildings. The Gold Cup uses lots of stadiums because the USA is littered with big stadiums coast to coast, but it doesn't have to be like that. The World Cup is a 32 team tournament without the double headers that we do in the Gold Cup, and it gets done with 12 stadiums. A 16 team tournament with double headers I would think could be done with as little as 3 to 6 venues. You could have 1 or 2 venues per group, and reuse those stadiums for the knockout rounds. 6 stadiums could be used with 5 stadiums hosting 4 games, and 1 venue hosting 5.

If you presented a 6 stadium set-up it would be rejected. CONCACAF and SUM want 12~ stadiums for it. More stadiums, the bigger the deal it seems and CONCACAF is vain.

[Kent]

36 minutes ago, matty said:

If you presented a 6 stadium set-up it would be rejected. CONCACAF and SUM want 12~ stadiums for it. More stadiums, the bigger the deal it seems and CONCACAF is vain.

Perhaps you are right. But it would also reduce marketing costs for selling tickets by targeting fewer cities, and would reduce travel expenses as well, and put less of a strain on players. Heck, maybe even Will Johnson would play:)

[matty]

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

Perhaps you are right. But it would also reduce marketing costs for selling tickets by targeting fewer cities, and would reduce travel expenses as well, and put less of a strain on players. Heck, maybe even Will Johnson would play:)

It would also likely cost you money in terms of TV rights and increase the cost to operate in the 6 cities your using and again it would damage the reputation of the event.

[Kent]

3 minutes ago, matty said:

It would also likely cost you money in terms of TV rights and increase the cost to operate in the 6 cities your using and again it would damage the reputation of the event.

I still don't see how changing the US invitational into a continental championship hurts it's reputation.

[harrycoyster]

 

5 minutes ago, matty said:

It would also likely cost you money in terms of TV rights and increase the cost to operate in the 6 cities your using and again it would damage the reputation of the event.

Plus a major reason the Gold Cup makes a ton of money is by playing the American stadium owners off each other to the point that many offer to host a Gold Cup game at a loss just to get an event in their stadium. The stadium bidding war couldn't happen in current day Canada.

[matty]

14 minutes ago, Kent said:

I still don't see how changing the US invitational into a continental championship hurts it's reputation.

I'm saying using fewer venues would. Also nice joke. misread originally.

13 minutes ago, harrycoyster said:

 

Plus a major reason the Gold Cup makes a ton of money is by playing the American stadium owners off each other to the point that many offer to host a Gold Cup game at a loss just to get an event in their stadium. The stadium bidding war couldn't happen in current day Canada.

I agree but CONCACAF doing a Canada solo host is a more tactical move to promote the CPL in Canada which in turn makes more money for CONCACAF off of long term. That's the reason why I keep saying the CPL is key to this especially for 2025.

[matty]

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/02/18/world-cup-mind-toronto-fc-eye-another-round-bmo-field-expansion

[Chad_Impact]

The city of Montreal want to use the Impact's training ground for the 2026 world cup

[matty]

So reading some recent news and it's looking like not only fifa but caf, unofficially at least, prefer the north american bid. Morocco is getting jerked around.

[harrycoyster]

2 hours ago, matty said:

So reading some recent news and it's looking like not only fifa but caf, unofficially at least, prefer the north american bid. Morocco is getting jerked around.

Yup. Morocco has been trying hard to get public support. None yet. It looks like most view it as a dead bid and the other countries in CAF don't want to piss off the CONCACAF block, who are important allies in securing future World Cups. 

[Rheo]

Big shock here Blatter supports Morocco lol

http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/3393247/sepp-blatter-endorses-morocco-bid-over-us-as-2026-world-cup-hosts

[SpecialK]

1 minute ago, Rheo said:

Big shock here Blatter supports Morocco lol

http://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/story/3393247/sepp-blatter-endorses-morocco-bid-over-us-as-2026-world-cup-hosts

Maybe I’m  paranoid a little bit haha but Blatter (  crooked bastard ) did have a lot of  influence of the African nations because he put a lot of money in their leaders pockets. I wonder if this turn things around for Morocco. I doubt it will, but it’s FIFA. 

[Grizzly]

1 hour ago, SpecialK said:

Maybe I’m  paranoid a little bit haha but Blatter (  crooked bastard ) did have a lot of  influence of the African nations because he put a lot of money in their leaders pockets. I wonder if this turn things around for Morocco. I doubt it will, but it’s FIFA. 

The main difference between Blatter and the previous and current FIFA leaders is he took the corruption of FIFA and spread it around to poorer, less wealthy countries instead of the rich wealthy countries that the corrupt system is supposed to benefit. Some of that money did end up in the pockets of corrupt people in those countries (though the same happens in less obvious ways when our rich western countries get the money) but an awful lot of the money did go to actual worthwhile programs in those countries. Blatter likely did this for his own selfish motives of getting elected as opposed to a belief in helping disadvantaged poorer countries but don't think for a minute the current leaders have any better motivation. Now FIFA is and will be just as corrupt as it was under Blatter and will favour rich western countries and our allies like every other international organization and in the manner that the corrupt system was supposed to work. And countries like Morocco will have little chance to win events like the World Cup when countries like the US are interested in hosting it.

[Grizzly]

Also lets not sugar coat our bid, if we get a few World Cup games thrown our way (and more importantly an automatic qualification) it is because we are the US's bitches and a multi-country bid will reduce criticism of the US hosting it. We will not be awarded it on the basis of the strength of our own bid. It reeks of the last German hosting not that long after the West German hosting which they won because of 1) bribery (we do not criticize this when our allies do it) and 2) claims of reunified Germany holding when almost no games were held in East Germany.

[SpecialK]

20 minutes ago, Grizzly said:

The main difference between Blatter and the previous and current FIFA leaders is he took the corruption of FIFA and spread it around to poorer, less wealthy countries instead of the rich wealthy countries that the corrupt system is supposed to benefit. Some of that money did end up in the pockets of corrupt people in those countries (though the same happens in less obvious ways when our rich western countries get the money) but an awful lot of the money did go to actual worthwhile programs in those countries. Blatter likely did this for his own selfish motives of getting elected as opposed to a belief in helping disadvantaged poorer countries but don't think for a minute the current leaders have any better motivation. Now FIFA is and will be just as corrupt as it was under Blatter and will favour rich western countries and our allies like every other international organization and in the manner that the corrupt system was supposed to work. And countries like Morocco will have little chance to win events like the World Cup when countries like the US are interested in hosting it.

I totally agree with you, the US will get it. But it is FIFA anything is possible haha. 

The was and still a lot of money being giving out to  developing countries to build training  facilities , fields etc and nothing being built, it ends up in the Federation leaders pocket. I wish Canada could get more of that development money 

[Rheo]

Sandor article on Canada Soccer downplaying the potential conflict of a Calgary Olympic bid

https://the11.ca/canada-soccer-world-cup-and-olympic-bids-for-2026-would-be-complementary/

[hamiltonfan]

Should we be concerned with rumors of US taking Qatar WC. I expect this would put an end to our joint bid 

[Blackdude]

1 hour ago, hamiltonfan said:

Should we be concerned with rumors of US taking Qatar WC. I expect this would put an end to our joint bid 

Nah, I mean if Qatar isn't getting it, I'm not sure they would go to the US first.