TORONTO HATED????

[Sam]

In the end its the same as most football rivalries around the world. People in Vancouver hate TFC, because they don't live in Toronto. Same reason people in Toronto hate the Impact because they don't live in Montreal. Thats pretty much it.

[piltdownman]

1. It doesn't matter who's fault it is. Its the same as anything the media tries to shove down your throat. You neutral to start with, but after its pushed on you, you end up disliking it. And TFC did really try to brand itself as "Canada's Club". Just look at the logo and their colours. I'm not saying that this was a bad thing, but Canadians that already support a club end up being put off by it.

2. Kerfoot's problems were originally with the city. The first stadium location (on his land) was rejected due to fears of displacing the homeless, potential terrorist attacks, possibilities of chemical leakage, and crowd marshalling issues. Kerfoot then tried to move the site over to be included in the new transit hub, but was rejected for the same reason as the first. He has since tried to do a land swap with the port for land beside his own at something like a 5:1 exchange for the Port. The federally run Port has dragged its feet on the issue, and the MP for the area has opposed the stadium, and instead thinks the space should be used as a brothel and a waterfront homeless shelter. Completely ignoring that its private land, and private money behind this. So in short, yes, we in Vancouver are very jealous that BMO got fast tracked with partial federal funds. The waterfront stadium should have been used for the 2007 U20WC as well after all.

3. Maybe its not fair, but those Vancouver based plastic muppets paint all TFC fans in a bad light. When they show up at whitecaps fan events, and try to tell us how much better TFC and its fans are, Vancouver fans do get upset. And I'm sorry, if you live in vancouver, have have never been to TFC match except for at Swangard, you have no right to try to tell anyone about fan support. (I don't mean that to anyone here, just a generalization about some of the Vancouver based TFC fans). Its people like that that give all TFC fans, and the club itself a bad name.

Generally why I like or dislike TFC is my opinion. I don't have to be rational or balanced, because its my opinion. if you don't like my reasons, it really shouldn't matter because its just my opinion. I'm not in any position where I should or have to be fair and balanced; I'm just a football fan.

[Montreal_FC_fan]

Fans are too Euro?

who are ya?

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by leafdolfan

In the end its the same as most football rivalries around the world. People in Vancouver hate TFC, because they don't live in Toronto. Same reason people in Toronto hate the Impact because they don't live in Montreal. Thats pretty much it.

I don't hate the Impact, or the Caps. The one soccer team i do hate is Guatemala. That team is so disgraceful! Spitting in the face of De Vos during the May '99 friendly at Varsity, multiple red cards and trying to go after the ref. at the '99 Pan Am Games, Carlos Ruiz aka. the cheating slimeball, their annyoing teenaged fans on BigSoccer...ugh. Now those are reasons to hate a team!

[nolbertos]

quote:Originally posted by REDSequalCANADA

Is Toronto FC really being hated by MTL and VAN because of the fan support they have (VAN favourite word in dictionary PLASTIC)!

Because we so called payed off Saputo?

Because are fans are too Euro

Or is it plain and simple were from Toronto!!

I personally love Van and MTL(as a city) but come on even if we had a TORONTO bowling team they would hate us!

Anyhow I love Canadian footy

Isn't it a good thing though that Toronto is hated?? Club Rivalries promote excitement, tickets being sold, more fans, etc. Canada has lacked historical rivalries on the Futbol scene. I would love to see someday a Vancouver - Montreal or Toronto - Montreal derby equivalent of a Man U vs Man City or Boca vs River similar style rivalry. The Voyageurs Cup did that.

Regarding plastics, most of these new converts are not really 100% futbol fans at the moment. Hell, when South Korea had there run in 2002, alot of fans jumped on the bandwagon, but after that, nobody gave a **** about support local clubs. I hope the new TFC fans stick through thick and thin and want to catch up on T.dot futbol history, rather than supporting the team, cuz they're in the big leagues, but give up when it's not the "cool" thing to do in Toronto, compared to supporting the Leafs or Raptors.

Regarding the Euro comment...every major city in Canada will always have those people that will only support the "motherland" or "fatherland" even though they were never born there, cuz they want to sound cool and such. When I was in Toronto during the 2002 World Cup, it was sickening to see so many fans on Bloor street, chanting their parent's or great grandfather's country of origin, when probably most of them will never support Canadian futbol.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by Johnnie Monster

I'll wade into this with some west coast perspective. I'm not trolling here, I'm simply responding to the question that was asked by the original poster.

Reasons why I, as a Vancouverite, hate TFC:

1. When Toronto was awarded their franchise, Canada's eastern-driven sports media (CBC, Sportsnet and TSN alike) all jumped on the bandwagon and declared TFC would be "Canada's team."

Screw that. I am a proud Canadian, but TFC is NOT my team, nor shall it ever be. I've been supporting the 86ers / Caps since day one. My club has been around a lot longer than TFC. My club has been around a lot longer than MLS too. Message to the media - don't presume to tell me who I'm going to cheer for.

2. Stadium envy... not envy for BMO as a facility per se, but the fact that an incredibly wealthy corporation somehow got a hold of my tax dollars to build a stadium they will use to earn a profit with, then cashed in on BMOs naming rights to boot.

Before we get into this, I don't want to hear any crap about Vancouver's Olympic funding. That is a totally different issue. Montreal and Calgary have both held Olympics. Toronto has applied for the games several times too. It's a worldwide event, and our country is lucky to have the games wherever they are held, and as frequently as we are allowed to host them. Furthermore, Olympic sporting venues remain public assets after the fact... they are not turned over to billion-dollar corporations for use in private enterprise (i.e. housing a professional sports franchise).

Taxes aside, the timing of BMO's financing and construction was a slap in the face to Vancouverites, as we were at that time four years deep into a public relations war with self-serving political factions, unscrupulous condo developers and mindless bureaucratic drones.

Imagine... there's MLSE smiling for the cameras as they put the golden shovels in the ground, meanwhile we're still pulling our hair out over why the f--- it is so hard for a guy who owns an unoccupied parcel of land to build something with his own money that has overwhelming community support. Greg Kerfoot did everything right, and he did it on his own dime, and he continues to get he shaft from the feds (port authority). So why is it that when MLSE holds out their hand, the feds bend over backwards to cut them a cheque? It reeks of precisely what we out west perceive as eastern favouritism by the federal government. Right or wrong, that's how it looks to a lot of us out west... which is precisely what led to the creation of the Reform and Canadian Alliance parties, and it's what put Stephen Harper in office today.

3. Immature, plastic TFC fans. When I say "plastic" I do not mean "newcomers" (because I'll be the first to admit that Vancouver will have PLENTY of those too.)

By my definition, a plastic fan is one who ***professes to be superior to other supporters or supporters groups***, while at the same...

a) has no knowledge of Toronto's NASL / CSL / USL soccer history;

didn't make the effort to support (or didn't know about) the Lynx when USL was the highest level of pro soccer in Canada; and

c) somehow thinks that three years shouting from the stands at BMO entitles them to pontificate about the realities of "hardcore support" when I stand with guys at Swangard who have been doing the same thing since 1974.

4. Local glory hunters - before the Vancouver Canucks arrived on the scene out here, a lot of Vancouverites cheered for the Leafs. To this day, there are still some who do, and they make a point of attending every Canucks v. Leafs game at GM Place. These fans are vocal, visible, and extremely annoying...

Now we see the same sort of phenomena at Swanard when TFC comes to play the Caps. We have some transplanted Torontonians here supporting TFC, but that's understandable. What is baffling to us is the small number of Vancouver-based glory hunters who cheer for TFC because it's the new and trendy thing on the Canadian sports scene. It's lame, tacky and pathetic. These guys also talk a big game about what great supporters they are, and yet they've never been to BMO in their lives. All I can say is I'm glad they're your fans and not ours.

I'll be sure to add to this list later, but that's a good start. Anyone else from Vancouver or Montreal want to step in?

Interesting and Intelligent observation. But not surprising:

1 - You stated that there is a difference in how we should view tax payer funding for the stadium in TO versus the the Olympics. But why? the tax dollars that went to BMO WAS NOT FOR TFC OR MLSEL. It was for the U20 WC; a FIFA event. What makes a FIFA event different from the Olympics (an IOC event) in regards to merit for federal funding. FIFA and the IOC have always benefited from immense public expenditures of tax dollars for hosting their events. The winter olmpics are the second biggest sports event run by the IOC and the U20 WC is the second biggest sports event run by FIFA. So why should their be a double standard?

2) Regarding the "Johnnie come lately fans who never supported the USL the before but now ......". That one is little more complex. but you cant generalize because every case is unique. I have been going to the Lynx and TFC games here since 2000. Most people did not know that the Lynx even existed and you could be excused for not knowing because there was no coverage or mention of it. Had I started reading the V-board ( network 54) in 2000 after the GOLD cup, i would not have known what the USL was, who the Lynx were and that we even had a team in that league. I have met several who never went to a Lynx but still know and understand the game very well and follow the team with passion and emotion. Others may have gone to one but never bothered again. Some are attracted to BMO because of tthe atmosphere, the good looking women, the happening place etc etc.... But you know what? Big deal. That just means that the marketing and public awareness is much better now as opposed to before. Cant fault the ownership for their their job. I have some freinds who fall into that category. You cant tell me that it will be any different in your market. Lets see, at present there are anywhere from 4-6K fans tha have been going to Whitecaps games over the past 8-9 years, if thats what you get when MLS arrives then it will be regarded a failure, but if the average attendances goes to up to 15-20K then what are we to conclude about those extra 15 K or so fans? what makes them any different.

[squizz1402635577]

quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan

anyone want to pull out the traditional Vs welcome mat for this guy? ed? squizz maybe?

No no, I wait for someone else to make some crude, unwelcoming remark, and then ironically comment "There's the old Vs welcome mat". But it seems that this message has actually sparked a legitimate discussion. What gives?

[loyola]

REDSequalCANADA, go back to Canada and don't bother coming back here with your Canadian ways!

Here you go Squizz, you can comment now!

[tmcmurph]

Not really hatred more like loath, revile and despise

In all seriousness though I love the fact that they have a bunch of quality Canadians on the team. It is easier to cheer for them this year since they got some of my favourites on the team. I love to watch Dero and Adrian play. They are great at their positions and fun to watch.

I will cheer for the players except when they play the Caps of course!

Good luck in the CCL.

PS. After last Thursday TFC have more respect than Impact around here!

[Lorne]

I love soccer. I have season tickets to Impact games. I watch TFC on TV whenever I can and think that it is terrific that they are recruiting top quality Canadian talent. And I applaud the Whitecaps for a great coaching and youth development program. Haber and Gage in particular have been great to watch.

Quality soccer at reasonable prices is what I want.

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by tmcmurph

PS. After last Thursday TFC have more respect than Impact around here!

Also, whoever mentioned "THE FC"...so true! I couldn't understand how DDR didn't go insane and kill the reporter who said it in front of him.

[Guest Ed]

I don't hate 'em, but it drives me insane to hear broadcasters (and I am talking about you Mr Nigel Reed) refer to Mo Johnson's US U23 feeding ground as "Canada's team" or the Canadians when playing MLS matches. Would have preferred to see Vancouver go through as they had the best record facing teams that gave a rat's ass, but, full credit to Toronto and good luck the rest of the way.

[Mr.Impact]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

One more thing... Joey Saputo has asked for Federal money to support the expansion of Stade Saputo.

Since your so against the Federal Government's involvement with BMO, how do you feel about the use of Federal tax dollars to support the expansion of Saputo.

The existing stadium is partially owned by the Quebec Government...

*Of course, if it were up to me, the Feds should have demanded real grass for our "National Soccer Stadium" as part of the funding, but hey, its Government...

Joey Saputo is asking the Quebec Provincial Government for funds to expand the stadium, and not the Federal Government. The 25 million would go towards expanding the stadium to meet MLS requirements. Keep in minf that the Saputo family has injected 15 million of their own money into the project.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Impact

[Scottie]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

If Saputo gets his expansion (with or without MLS) to 20K

I think the CSA should consider moving the National Soccer Stadium to Stade Saputo. This might put the pressure on MLSE and the City to get moving. If they drop the ball, they lose the National Soccer Stadium label, and the National Team revenues that go with it for good.

After last september's debacle that would be a bad idea.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by nolbertos

Regarding plastics, most of these new converts are not really 100% futbol fans at the moment....

That I would have to seriously question (to phrase things diplomatically). In my experience a very significant portion of the "new convert" TFC support also closely follow the fortunes of clubs overseas that either they supported as a kid or their families supported back in the old country and they have been to see during trips back to visit relatives. In order for people like that to transfer those sort of feelings to a club in a Canadian context you need to have a professionally run operation in a stable league that people can be confident will still be around when their children and grandchildren start to follow the sport. Supporting a soccer club with passion is something that builds over decades and generations. It isn't something you can turn on and off like a light switch.

The Whitecaps/86ers have been around long enough and have been run in a professional enough manner for that kind of passion to have built up to a limited extent, but how was anyone supposed to build up that kind of visceral level feeling towards the Toronto Lynx when they were playing at Centennial Stadium in Etobicoke with an economic model that revolved around youth soccer group sales (on one of the few occasions I was at one of their games I felt a very strong urge to headbutt the mascot when he/she/it was up in the stands blocking my view of the action while play was in progress)? There was every reason to believe that the Lynx would fold within five seasons and that they were a complete dead end where the development of pro soccer in Toronto was concerned. It is very difficult to make a deep emotional investment in those circumstances and I don't think anybody's passion for the sport should be questioned because they failed to do so.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

That I would have to seriously question (to phrase things diplomatically). In my experience a very significant portion of the "new convert" TFC support also closely follow the fortunes of clubs overseas that either they supported as a kid or their families supported back in the old country and they have been to see during trips back to visit relatives. In order for people like that to transfer those sort of feelings to a club in a Canadian context you need to have a professionally run operation in a stable league that people can be confident will still be around when their children and grandchildren start to follow the sport. Supporting a soccer club with passion is something that builds over decades and generations. It isn't something you can turn on and off like a light switch.

The Whitecaps/86ers have been around long enough and have been run in a professional enough manner for that kind of passion to have built up to a limited extent, but how was anyone supposed to build up that kind of visceral level feeling towards the Toronto Lynx when they were playing at Centennial Stadium in Etobicoke with an economic model that revolved around youth soccer group sales (on one of the few occasions I was at one of their games I felt a very strong urge to headbutt the mascot when he/she/it was up in the stands blocking my view of the action while play was in progress)? There was every reason to believe that the Lynx would fold within five seasons and that they were a complete dead end where the development of pro soccer in Toronto was concerned. It is very difficult to make a deep emotional investment in those circumstances and I don't think anybody's passion for the sport should be questioned because they failed to do so.

To be fair, the Montreal Impact use to sell a lot of tickets to youths at rock bottom prices at the Centre Claude-Robillard.

Only difference, the Impact were successful with that model and it eventually grew into a more mature fan base (still very youth friendly, which isn't necessarily a bad thing)

The point is, if new comers are considered "plastic", will the Whitecaps and Impact fans hold the same standard to the 15 000 additional fans at BC Place...

Or the 7000 additional fans if Stade Saputo is expanded for MLS? Many probably won't have the knowledge of more "seasoned" USL-1 era fans.

[BringBackTheBlizzard]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

Or the 7000 additional fans if Stade Saputo is expanded for MLS? Many probably won't have the knowledge of more "seasoned" USL-1 era fans.

Really? People who have followed the fortunes of Man United, Rangers, Juventus, AC Milan, Benfica, Bayern Munich, Feyenoord, Red Star Belgrade, Hajduk Split, River Plate and Boca Juniors all of their lives will need pointers from USL-D1 fans on the sport? I'd write "some" not "many". It's fashionable in sports media circles to write off TFC's success as being down to the "party atmosphere" because the idea that hardcore soccer fans are out there in similar numbers to Argos fans is too awful for them to even contemplate but the reality doesn't match their delusional fantasy.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard

Really? People who have followed the fortunes of Man United, Rangers, Juventus, AC Milan, Benfica, Bayern Munich, Feyenoord, Red Star Belgrade, Hajduk Split, River Plate and Boca Juniors all of their lives will need pointers from USL-D1 fans on the sport? I'd write "some" not "many". It's fashionable in sports media circles to write off TFC's success as being down to the "party atmosphere" because the idea that hardcore soccer fans are out there in similar numbers to Argos fans is too awful for them to even contemplate but the reality doesn't match their delusional fantasy.

LOL, you betcha. I was at a networking event in Toronto and a former Toronto Star reporter Rick Matsumoto was there. I was raving about how great it is to see the city get excited over a local Soccer team.

Rick Matsumoto comes in and tells me that he would love to see the Argos play at BMO instead of the Dome.

I pointed out the Soccer Specific requirement of MLS. That statement must have triggered a cord, because Mr Matsumoto got really irritated by that, and went on a rant about how amateur North American Soccer is, and how the "silly Europeans" only like Soccer because they have "no other choice".

That about sums up the attitude the Canadian media establishment tends to take towards soccer...

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

Last time I checked AND until recently, Ontario has been sending money to other provinces in the form of Equalization payments (particularly to Quebec), so the whole "Federal money" argument really doesn't hold ground.

Unless of course your from my home Province of Alberta. Albertan's pay their fair share [8D]

OK, let's get something straight here, Ontario still pays out billions in equalization. Last year Ontario put in something like $28 Billion and got back about $350 million.

The whole "have-not" thing is something that is easy to put into print but it ignores the fact that Ontario still puts more money into the program than any other province. In fact, if you add up the contributions of BC and Alberta, it still doesn't equal what Ontario puts into the program.

Ya, sure we're getting some money back now but don't forget the billions we still put in!

db

[Calgary Boomer]

I hate TFC because:

1. Mo Johnson is an impostor. (most TFC fans would probably agree)

2. For the amount of tax payer money that was paid, BMO field is a glorified high school stadium. It could be dismantled and moved out in a day.

3. MLSE. Not an organization that has a winning track record of any kind.

4. They have no style of play. From one game to the next you have no idea what the systems are.

5. I actually don't mind the fans...in all their plastic glory.

[kyam]

quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

[ottawaguy2009]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

[Trident]

Except we won't play much in Vancouver, until our National Team Players become J and K Leaguers.