TORONTO HATED????

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by masster

To use a soccer example, Mr. Duane Rollins, who insinuated that Vancouver winning the Voyageur's Cup would have been a bad thing for CANADIAN soccer. He didn't say Toronto soccer or soccer in Ontario; he said Canadian soccer. As if sitting in front of his keyboard in Mississauga gives him a great read on the pulse of the entire soccer nation. I'm not saying the statement is right or wrong, the fact that he would even choose to make such a statement from his all encompassing position of authority is proof enough.

So you're not saying it's right or wrong, which means you think it could be right.

And if it is right, it's only allowed to be uttered by someone from outside of Toronto? Is that what you're saying here?

Clearly someone sitting behind his keyboard in Langley, Gimli or Laval has more of a read on the pulse of the entire soccer nation. As long as they're not from the GTA.

To me, I've found a lot more arrogance from outside of Toronto, especially when it comes to the subject of Toronto. Of course, I'm just being self-centered by saying such a thing.

[El Hombre]

^ The arrogance of Duane's piece was found more in his comments than in the piece itself. The idea that the piece and comments were written by someone from Toronto matters because of all the assumptions that are made:

1) TFC has far more visibility than the Whitecaps - I think this could be debateable outside of the GTA.

2) Because TFC is far more visible than the Whitecaps a run in the CCL would be a bigger news story - Again debateable outside of the GTA. As a member of MLS, it is almost expected for some of those teams to go further. A cinderella run by the Whitecaps to the semi-finals would be a much bigger story than a run by TFC to the semi-finals.

3) No one would follow the Whitecaps in CCL other than the die hard USL fan - Again very debateable outside of the GTA. Also, this assumption was made on the idea that no one followed the Impact until February which definitely wasn't the case. Everybody loves an underdog and that makes a great story.

4) People who don't like MLS will be turned off even more with a Whitecaps win - I wasn't sure what to make of this one, because it's not like a TFC win would've converted the uneducated masses. Nothing short of a CCL win would make the MLS haterz pay attention. If the Whitecaps beat TFC then I doubt their opinion of MLS would change.

So, after making all of these assumptions that are debateable outside of the GTA, Duane concluded that a Whitecaps win over TFC was bad for Canadian soccer based on what might happen in the CCL. It does kinda sting when someone from Toronto assumes how everyone else will act (or someone from Ottawa or Vancouver etc.)

Look at it this way:

There were 4 possible outcomes -

1 - Toronto wins the Voyageurs Cup and does well in the CCL (semi-finals or better).

2 - Toronto wins the Voyageurs Cup and does poorly in the CCL.

3 - Vancouver wins the Voyageurs Cup and does well in the CCL (semi-finals or better).

4 - Vancouver wins the Voyageurs Cup and does poorly in the CCL.

Here is the fallout of each one of those situations:

1 - Good but also somewhat expected as Toronto is an MLS team which is supposed to be the second best league in North America.

2 - Disastrous.

3 - A great story because Vancouver is relatively small (USL vs. MLS) but they went on a Cinderella run.

4 - Expected.

You'll see that a TFC loss in the CCL is much worse than a Whitecaps loss and there is more to be gained with a Vancouver run.

[TFCRegina]

I consider Quarterfinals as doing well in CCL. Regardless of who qualified, they'd have went through the gauntlet getting to the Quarterfinals. First Puerto Rico, then the toughest group (CD Saprissa, Columbus Crew, Cruz Azul) in the Group Stage.

[CanadianSwede]

^^ You'd have to think that if Toronto made it through that group then they would be considered as one of the favourites to win the tournament. In terms of our region that is a very tough group to finish top two in.

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by TFCRegina

I consider Quarterfinals as doing well in CCL. Regardless of who qualified, they'd have went through the gauntlet getting to the Quarterfinals. First Puerto Rico, then the toughest group (CD Saprissa, Columbus Crew, Cruz Azul) in the Group Stage.

Not sure if you're responding to me or not, but semi-finals vs. quarterfinals makes no difference. What makes a difference is which story would be biggere: TFC in the quarterfinals or Whitecaps in the quarterfinals?

I think the Whitecaps scenario as it would seem like more of an achievement.

Of course, this is all conjecture but so was Duane's article. I was just trying to point out that the assumptions he made were very Toronto-centric which makes them worse coming from someone from Toronto. Sometimes where the comments are coming from is important but that's not just a Toronto specific affliction.

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by Rudi

So you're not saying it's right or wrong, which means you think it could be right.

And if it is right, it's only allowed to be uttered by someone from outside of Toronto? Is that what you're saying here?

Clearly someone sitting behind his keyboard in Langley, Gimli or Laval has more of a read on the pulse of the entire soccer nation. As long as they're not from the GTA.

To me, I've found a lot more arrogance from outside of Toronto, especially when it comes to the subject of Toronto. Of course, I'm just being self-centered by saying such a thing.

What I was trying to say, is that regardless of the merits of the comment, it is very Toronto centric and confuses Toronto for all of Canada which seems to be a common occurence from those located in your part of the country. Please don't be offended. Someone asked an honest question and I was citing examples in giving my honest answer.

Now, if you wish to debate the 'correctness' of that comment, I will be more than happy to do so as El Hombre has done above.

[Trident]

whoever said montreal is cold...yes, in the winter.

I think Montreal might have the wildest temperature difference from winter to summer in all of the three canadian cities?

35ish to -35ish?

[morbital]

quote:Originally posted by kyam

I agree that an inferiority complex definitely exists in Canada towards Toronto, not just in Vancouver, but anywhere.

i never hated toronto because im jealous in any way of it, its just the pompuas attitude of its citizens.

and how could i ever be jealous when this is the view i look at every day

[Guest Ed]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

whoever said montreal is cold...yes, in the winter.

I think Montreal might have the wildest temperature difference from winter to summer in all of the three canadian cities?

35ish to -35ish?

We can see that swing out here in a 24 hour period (well not quite, but much more so than Montreal).

[SthMelbRed]

quote:Originally posted by masster

http://www.24thminute.com/2009/06/sober-second-thoughts-cigar-is-just.html

I just read the article and it's not done a thing to dispel my existing opinion of Duane 'MediaGuy' Rollins as an arrogant blowhard with a tenuous grasp on basic football knowledge. I'm particularly curious about these seven point blank sitters that TFC apparently missed in the game at Swangard. I remember a weak header directly at the 'keeper, a hit post (from a tight angle which didn't leave the striker a lot of net to shoot at), and a long lob that was comfortably cleared off the line by very relaxed central defender and not much else from TFC. But the fact that TFC were well beaten by a better team on the day probably doesn't jive with MediaGuy's agenda, does it? Better to create a myth of a lucky win by the 'Caps. I'll just sit back now and wait for him to come back to tell me how great and well-respected a journalist he actually is.

[TFCRegina]

quote:Originally posted by El Hombre

Not sure if you're responding to me or not, but semi-finals vs. quarterfinals makes no difference. What makes a difference is which story would be biggere: TFC in the quarterfinals or Whitecaps in the quarterfinals?

I think the Whitecaps scenario as it would seem like more of an achievement.

Of course, this is all conjecture but so was Duane's article. I was just trying to point out that the assumptions he made were very Toronto-centric which makes them worse coming from someone from Toronto. Sometimes where the comments are coming from is important but that's not just a Toronto specific affliction.

I was just making the point that any advancement past the group stage is an achievement for Canada.

And it would likely be better for Canadian soccer if the Whitecaps have won...I'm a TFC fan saying this. Fact is, the ****ecaps have more Canadians on the roster...but I was cheering for TFC the whole time.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by SthMelbRed

I just read the article and it's not done a thing to dispel my existing opinion of Duane 'MediaGuy' Rollins as an arrogant blowhard with a tenuous grasp on basic football knowledge. I'm particularly curious about these seven point blank sitters that TFC apparently missed in the game at Swangard. I remember a weak header directly at the 'keeper, a hit post (from a tight angle which didn't leave the striker a lot of net to shoot at), and a long lob that was comfortably cleared off the line by very relaxed central defender and not much else from TFC. But the fact that TFC were well beaten by a better team on the day probably doesn't jive with MediaGuy's agenda, does it? Better to create a myth of a lucky win by the 'Caps. I'll just sit back now and wait for him to come back to tell me how great and well-respected a journalist he actually is.

You couldn't have posted all of that at his blog?

[Soro17]

quote:and how could i ever be jealous when this is the view i look at every day

Aren't you glad there isn't a soccer-specific stadium blocking your view?

Here's a song for all of you who don't like Toronto:

http://www.last.fm/music/Radio+Free+Vestibule/_/I+Don't+Want+to+Go+to+Toronto

The tune is quite awful, but here are the lyrics:

I don't want to go to Toronto

I don't want to go

All of the blocks are square

None of the streets are twisted

None of the streets are paved with bricks

There's too many elevators in Toronto

Not enough stairs in Toronto

Not enough stairs

All of the food in Toronto is made of edible oil products

They don't have bagels in Toronto

They have doughnuts

Doughnuts made of edible oil

I don't like doughnuts

They don't have bagels

I don't want to go to Toronto

People don't have faces in Toronto

They have cigarette ads instead

They listen to your phone calls

There's a tower in Toronto that controls people's minds

It's illegal to possess brightly coloured balloons in Toronto

Illegal to own brightly coloured balloons

All of the children in Toronto must wear suits

Even the girls

Three piece suits

The buildings in Toronto have no windows

I don't want to go

Everyone lives in sub-terrainian caverns

Filled with doughnuts made of edible oil

I don't want to go

Nobody goes to the bathroom in Toronto

They have a special operation

They have it removed surgically

There's a tax on all wicker goods in Toronto

There's huge buildings with no windows

And streets with no curves

And inside you find little girls in suits

Running around with black balloons

And munching on edible oil products

The kids don't have names

They have numbers which are assigned to them at birth

They're called three hundred and eighty seven point seven

Four hundred and twelve point nine

And they all have cigarette ads instead of faces

I don't want to go to Toronto

I don't want to go

I have plenty of wicker goods

I don't want a tax on my wicker goods

I like going to the bathroom

I don't want to go the hospital

I don't want to go to Toronto

I don't want to go

Do I have to go to Toronto?

Do I?

Do i have to go?

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by Ed

We can see that swing out here in a 24 hour period (well not quite, but much more so than Montreal).

ahaha,you guys don't count because you're exposed to the elements. Of course you'll have wild swings when the wind has tonnes of space to pick up speed and hit you.

---------------

And I have to say, people are holding onto the debates surrounding this last result because it seems like a lot of people from Toronto are trying to get the last dig in, by saying everyone is jealous of you guys for living there.

I sure as fuck know I'm not jealous. I'd rather live in Clarenville or Musgrave than Toronto. But seeing people say that we're all jealous, and that the game was on par with Santos Laguna, just make me want to start the arguments up all over again.

Ok guys, you think we're jealous of your awesome city, and the game was a collapse just like against Santos Laguna. But stop saying that and throwing in whatever other dig you can think of, because that does NOTHING but fan the flames of hatred, and then when we respond, you guys fire back with another round of the jealousy thing, which completes the cycle.

And MTL/VAN/CAN posters, stop talking to anyone who you see make those idiot remarks about our cities. They aren't deserving of a response, because there's no end.

Try and put this dog to sleep, alright?

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by Trident

whoever said montreal is cold...yes, in the winter.

I think Montreal might have the wildest temperature difference from winter to summer in all of the three canadian cities?

35ish to -35ish?

I said it's a "cool" city, not a cold city. Cool as in it's fun to go and party in Montreal. Time to ease up on the defensiveness, i don't see too many Torontonians making fun of the rest of Canada on here...

[REDSequalCANADA]

[quote Time to ease up on the defensiveness, i don't see too many Torontonians making fun of the rest of Canada on here...

[Trident]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

I said it's a "cool" city, not a cold city. Cool as in it's fun to go and party in Montreal. Time to ease up on the defensiveness, i don't see too many Torontonians making fun of the rest of Canada on here...

Thats not being defensive dude. If i was defensive I would have said "Wtf, who cares about temperature, toronto sucks dick!"

I thought you meant cold, and then I proceeded to talk about temperature.

I wasn't being defensive at all, so please don't think I was. Don't assume everything I have to say is anti toronto, I honestly don't care that much to do that.

Is everything cool between us?

(get it?)

[jpg75]

Haha! Yeah, we're cool

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by masster

I wouldn't call it hatred, but the reason I dislike Toronto is mainly because of its ignorant and self centred citizens. In essence they are Americans lite.

Just a small silly example, but you don't know how may times I get voice messages at work from people in Toronto that call me at 9:30am Eastern time and they are flabergasted that I am not in the office. How inconsiderate of me for not being at my desk at 6:30am to take your call. This doesn't happen with my contacts in Montreal or Atlantic Canada.

To use a soccer example, Mr. Duane Rollins, who insinuated that Vancouver winning the Voyageur's Cup would have been a bad thing for CANADIAN soccer. He didn't say Toronto soccer or soccer in Ontario; he said Canadian soccer. As if sitting in front of his keyboard in Mississauga gives him a great read on the pulse of the entire soccer nation. I'm not saying the statement is right or wrong, the fact that he would even choose to make such a statement from his all encompassing position of authority is proof enough.

I live in Toronto proper. And I'm willing to bet that I've lived in a hell of a lot more of the country than you.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

..and I made an off-handed comment in that article (and labelled it as being made in the emotion of the moment -- I wrote the article at 2 a.m. after the game). Yet, it caused a massive fall out because I dared express my opinion that a CCL run by TFC would create more exposure of the game than a Whitecaps run would. I didn't shoot a puppy. I pointed out that, what with 1/3 of the country living within an hour of the city of Toronto, that TFC has the most exposure of the three teams.

Damn that math.

Toronto is much bigger than both Montreal and Vancouver. The extended GTA is bigger than the two cities combined. That's a reality that plays into why people "hate" Toronto. Because it's big, they feel justified in saying the most outrageous things about fellow Canadians (they're arrogant, racist, stupid, whatever) because they happen to live in a really big city and because the NHL team in that city gets too much TV exposure (and God do they get too much TV exposure. It’s especially bad in Toronto). You see that's just it...when you say you "hate" a city what you are really saying is that you hate the people that live there. Cities can't be hated because they are just cement and metal. Most people that express their hate haven't really spent much time actually getting to know anyone in those cities.

For the record, I've lived in...deep breath...Toronto, Mississauga, Oakville, Kitchener, Waterloo, St. Catharines, Belleville, Peterborough, Madoc, Ont., Kirkfield, Ont. Halifax, Charlottetown, Fredericton, Maple Creek, Sask., and Edmonton. I think I'm qualified to comment on the various regions (I've also visited all 10 provinces FWIW).

I love them all. And I have ***no time*** for anyone who expresses hate of any other region. I kind of think their attitude is petty and pathetic and it holds us back as a nation.

When I say that I think the USL is a weaker league than MLS and that our three major cities should be doing all that they can to get the hell out of it I'm not doing so because I "hate" the two cities that the USL teams play in. I find it insane that some people come away with that idea.

ANYWAY...for the record, my favourite city in this country is Toronto. Why? Because I was born here and much of my family and many of my best friends in the world live here. If I had to pick another city in the country to live it would probably be Montreal because I love the vibe of that city (I'm an urban guy. I love being in big cities). Surprisingly I'd rate Edmonton very high as well...I loved Edmonton. The winters really suck, but it's a great city. The best Mexican restaurant in the country is in Fredericton. I'd almost move back just to be close to it. Calgary is actually the city that most closely reminds me of Toronto. Halifax is incredibly charming -- as are the entire Maritimes -- and you have not lived until you have spent time in St. John's. I learned more about Canada during my year in rural Saskatchewan than I had in my 17 years of schooling.

Who has time to hate any inch of this wonderful country?

[masster]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

I live in Toronto proper. And I'm willing to bet that I've lived in a hell of a lot more of the country than you.

I'm sure you have. That is why I don't claim to speak for the entire country.

[masster]

Jesus Duane, nobody said that you didn't like Canada. But your points of justification are not factually correct. You did not say "a CCL run by TFC would create more exposure of the game than a Whitecaps run would." What you said on your blog was "I don't believe tonight was a good night for Canadian soccer". If you can not see the difference, then there in lies the problem. Had you said the former, I don't think there would have been any uproar whatsoever. Saying the latter though, is just validation for my opinion.

I lived in Toronto for 2 months during an internship. I was offered a full time position there. I visit the city regularily on business. I love its size, its unique districts, the restaurants and the numerous entertainment options. Just as you state above, I do not hate the 'cement and metal'...it is the proportion of ignorant and self-absorbed people that live there which are the cause of my distaste. Call this 'petty and pathetic' if you wish. May I suggest you look in a mirror.

[Duane Rollins1555362254]

quote:Originally posted by masster

Jesus Duane, nobody said that you didn't like Canada. But your points of justification are not factually correct. You did not say "a CCL run by TFC would create more exposure of the game than a Whitecaps run would." What you said on your blog was "I don't believe tonight was a good night for Canadian soccer". If you can not see the difference, then there in lies the problem. Had you said the former, I don't think there would have been any uproar whatsoever. Saying the latter though, is just validation for my opinion.

I lived in Toronto for 2 months during an internship. I was offered a full time position there. I visit the city regularily on business. I love its size, its unique districts, the restaurants and the numerous entertainment options. Just as you state above, I do not hate the 'cement and metal'...it is the proportion of ignorant and self-absorbed people that live there which are the cause of my distaste. Call this 'petty and pathetic' if you wish. May I suggest you look in a mirror.

"it is the proportion of ignorant and self-absorbed people that live there which are the cause of my distaste"

Yet I didn't write that. Very few people in Toronto ever write anything like that. It's pretty common to see it written about Toronto.

So where are the "ignorant and self-absorbed people" living again?

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

"it is the proportion of ignorant and self-absorbed people that live there which are the cause of my distaste"

Yet I didn't write that. Very few people in Toronto ever write anything like that. It's pretty common to see it written about Toronto.

So where are the "ignorant and self-absorbed people" living again?

+ 1,000,000

[El Hombre]

quote:Originally posted by MediaGuy

So where are the "ignorant and self-absorbed people" living again?

Depending on who you ask: Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa, Vancouver, Calgary...

I've heard cases for each one.