Grizzly Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I don't think there is a bias against Canadians per se. I do however think there are Canadians available that would address a need on TFC. I don't think they should be considered exclusively bench players. I believe they would be there to push for a starting place and if a regular starter is slumping, they could be replaced with guys from the bench. There would be a drop off in quality sure, but not as big a dropoff as you are insinuating. It would be nominal in my opinion and certainly not as big a difference in quality as currently exists between the starters and the bench right now (who's there other than Velez, the Ghanaians, Ibrahim and Gala? That's a big concern for me as a TFC fan). Edit: I meant to add that right now TFC has zero depth and bringing in the guys mentioned (or holding on to them in the first place) would be a fantastic start in fixing that. As it stands, TFC is 1 or 2 injuries away from having serious problems. The fact that they haven't caught on with another MLS squad has got to be due to other MLS squads having access to a larger pool of players from which to draw from. Bringing in an international to provide cover and maybe play half the games doesn't make a lick of sense to me, but maybe I'm missing something. And while the coach may have input, if he's the one scouting players and telling the GM to go out and get so and so, then what exactly is the GM doing? Regarding Rosenlund, TFC did want to keep him but had salary cap issues and couldn't offer him a decent wage. They were well aware that what they offered him was below a living wage and below what he deserved. If the salary cap were higher they would have offered him more. I have this all from a very good source. One could criticize TFC for overpaying certain players and not distributing their cap budget better but it is not true to say they didn't want Rosenlund or didn't think he was MLS quality. I agree that he would be a much better depth player than they currently have and could push for a starters role. This again shows the problems in the MLS salary structure. Regarding Hemming signing with a USl team instead of another MLS team, an important factor is USL has classified Canadian players as domestic while MLS has not (and yes MLS rules are discriminatory and Mo did contribute to this in an attempt to make his job easier. American players do not have the same difficulties playing for TFC that Canadian players do for other MLS teams). As an unproven player another MLS team would first have to need a midfielder, would have to have salary cap room and would probably want him on trial first before they would sign him. Additionally, for this level of player MLS does not usually pay more than USL and often less because as previously mentioned they spend much of their cap on the top members of the roster. Note that Ribeiro is only getting marginally more as a starter for San Jose than as a substitute for the Impact. Also one must note that Charleston is currently the top USL team and probably has a superior roster to several MLS teams. They just beat the 2nd best MLS squad, Chivas, 3-1 to advance to the quarters of the US Open Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 The deal is done. If de Guzman does not have a firm offer from Europe by the end of the Gold Cup he is signing with TFC: http://www.24thminute.com/2009/07/tfc-and-de-guzman-deal-done-sort-of.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rujulus Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 C'mon, Tottenham, where's your bid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Grizzly ....an important factor is USL has classified Canadian players as domestic while MLS has not (and yes MLS rules are discriminatory and Mo did contribute to this in an attempt to make his job easier. American players do not have the same difficulties playing for TFC that Canadian players do for other MLS teams).... Since when did the hired help like Mo Johnston unilaterally get to set MLS policy? Also, if being classified as an import is such a big deal for Canadian players how come Jakovic and Hainault got signed by American MLS teams? MLS have done away with the restrictive SI and YI categories and now 8 out of 24 players can be imports of any age. Most American MLS teams do not come close to filling their import quota. The simpler and more likely explanation is that Hemmings is in USL-D1 right now because that's his level as a player at the moment and Jakovic and Hainault are in MLS because they are better players than he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomonty Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 It will be a shame for him to leave Europe in his prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmynow Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Lomonty It will be a shame for him to leave Europe in his prime this TFC fan would not call it shame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Rollins1555362254 Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Lomonty It will be a shame for him to leave Europe in his prime Maybe, but he literally doesn't have any offers in Europe right now and the TFC offer would basically set him up for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 That last bit is too easily dismissed by some people and it could be a very narrow window of opportunity for him in a TFC context. 2 to 3 years from now after a contract with another European club it might be Atiba Hutchinson's turn for the crazy money offer from MLSE. Maybe all the recent "I want to go back to Spain stuff" has been about maximizing the offer from TFC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomonty Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 ^ He has to do what's right for his career and family the money TFC has offered is no joke . Terrible luck he finds himself in this economy and transfer market which is the slowest in years. As a spurs supporter he'd be the perfect for their centre midfield rotation but as a fan I knew spurs are dormant on any moves until they move out 20 millon in contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BringBackTheBlizzard Maybe all the recent "I want to go back to Spain stuff" has been about maximizing the offer from TFC? If that is the case, then he is bold face lying to everyone he knows. I sincerely believe that he wants to be back in europe but, if the dollar figures Duane Rollins is reporting are accurate (and I'm hearing similar stuff as well) then how can anyone walk away from that, especially if there is nothing concrete happening for him in Europe? i've said it over and over...as an MNT fan, I want him in europe. as a JDG fan, I want him in Europe. But as a business man, I can understand the lure of that much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhat Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr i've said it over and over...as an MNT fan, I want him in europe. as a JDG fan, I want him in Europe. But as a business man, I can understand the lure of that much money. I agree too. Also, keep in mind if JDG signs with a big club in Europe (eg. Tottenham), how good will his development be if he sits on the bench (like Stalteri did)? If he's a star in MLS, his career marketability becomes just as large if not larger than in Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lomonty Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Sevilla just overpaid for Zokora, there goes that link. I agree with VP, Jules as our best player needs to be Europe playing tactical, organized, competitive football. TFC is a step in the right direction for football in canada but as it stands right now is a dog and pony show. The transfer market is extremely slow right now I think he's done the best thing for himself and family by securing a contract with TFC, at the same time being a little shrewd leaving the door open for a trip back to europe. Milan, Barca, United, Chelsea all starting to buy by the time this tournament draws to close I believe clubs will start to offer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettermirror Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I really hope he does NOT sign for TFC. sure TFC would have instant impact in the CM position - thus actually be able to possess the ball. HOWEVER, what does this do for the Nats!? I am surprised he hasn't been offered something for Germany? Obviously if TFC is offering him BIG MONEY, and the offers from other clubs are either unsuitable, or for a club that is quite small he wouldn't accept that. The Lyon rumour above would be outstanding though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror HOWEVER, what does this do for the Nats!? Best player less jetlagged during World Cup qualification because he is playing in a CONCACAF timezone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Honduras best player is playing with TFC. USA best player is playing in the MLS. I wouldn't worry if JDG decided to continue his career in the MLS. I must admit that him being overpaid like that could possibly create a few problems within the team, but let's hope it doesn't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Honduras best player is playing with TFC. Honduras' best players play in Europe (Suazo and Palacios). Guevara is not their best player IMO but he is an important player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
massimo Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr Honduras' best players play in Europe (Suazo and Palacios). Guevara is not their best player IMO but he is an important player. Agreed Suazo is heads and shoulders above Guevara. With UEFA Champions League experience when he was playing with Inter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Sorry, I meant one of Honduras best player is playing in MLS. Of course, Palacios is better than Guevara. Anyways, I think you get my point. I doubt it will hurt us if JDG plays in the MLS. Like another poster suggested with the time zone argument it might even be a positive. The possibility of friendlies in North America is more attractive if we have more players playing here, specially if our best midfielder is playing at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by bettermirror I really hope he does NOT sign for TFC. sure TFC would have instant impact in the CM position - thus actually be able to possess the ball. HOWEVER, what does this do for the Nats!? I am surprised he hasn't been offered something for Germany? Well it would do miracles for the Nats. Imagine if this would have happened two years ago and we go into WCQ with a core of players who have been playing togther every weekend. Think of what that does for familarity and team chemistry. It would be our definite trump card over the opposition. Less prep time, travel time and accessibility and visibilty to the coaches would would be of immense value to the CSA and the head coach. Just go through the teams in central america like CRC (who are on top in the hex) and see what they have as far as players and player experience. You will note that many of their players have MLS somewhere in their background. But most importantly, they are not scattered throughout the globe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 I don't think DeGuzman really has that much to prove or improve in Europe. By going to England, he risks Stalteri syndrome with the fickle managers and supporters. Sure we'd get to watch him more often, but at TFC we'd get to watch him every week! The guy we should be concerned about is Hutch, because I really think he could improve his game a lot by going to Spain or Italy. He's only 2 years younger than Jules, so he needs to get on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone The guy we should be concerned about is Hutch, because I really think he could improve his game a lot by going to Spain or Italy. He's only 2 years younger than Jules, so he needs to get on it. Agreed 100%. Edit: I should add. The recent news of Gooch Onyewu's signing with Milan from standard Liege is perhaps the best example of what it means for a players career to be exposed on a big stage. I doubt that a club like Milan would have ever heard of of Gooch had it not been for his play at the Confed cup. So there he goes, as a result, from Belgium to arguably one of the one of top 4-5 biggest clubs in the world. More reason why Atiba needs out of where he at now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 JDG is a good player and deserving of DP money but if 7 million a year is accurate that is absolutely ridiculous and just continues with the Mo tradition of overpaying players. Even at 3 million he would probably be overpaid but not by that much. For 7 million they could sign a major European star player. As far as where he would be better off playing in the national team picture, if playing at the lower level MLS meant that he played a more offensive midfield general role instead of being a defensive mid that might be positive. If he plays in Spain or England he will probably remain a defensive role player. On the other hand he could probably sign with a Bundesliga club and play a more offensive role at a level much higher than MLS. Also with DeRo and Guevera already it is not sure he will be playing more offensively at TFC. Nevertheless, I doubt he is going to get an offer in Europe approaching 3 million let alone 7 so if that is what TFC is offering I am sure he will sign there. While it remains to be seen how this move will affect his playing abilities and the national team it will probably be good for MLS and professional soccer in Canada from a marketing standpoint and the idea that we are able to keep our best players in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free kick Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 If it is seven million, then that is a lot money. You are worth what you can get i suppose. And because of his stature as a canadian and the MLS rules and regulations, it means that to TFC he is worth more to them than he is worth to any other team in Europe. In the long term, there is value that will be realised in the fact that the up and comming talent will perceive the organization as a more viable option when the highest profile player in Canada find them suitable. Still, dont forget that Mo needed the approval from the board for thsi kind of expenditure and we had heard last winter than the board had voted to approve a DP. Whether or not a second approval, given that it was 7 million dollars, was needed is unknown. Therein lies where the cultural similarities exists amongst the three sports enties that they control and perhaps explains the propensity to to overpay for talent. When these decsions fall out of the hands of the hockey basketball and soccer people and in the hands of people in suites, then these people could not possible assess true value but rather get caught up in sentimentality, pride, and ego. How else does one explain the contracts given to Tie Domi, Dracy Tucker and Bryan McCabe. This a mear obsivation of the culture on my part rather than a criticism of this move. Afterall I cant see how any supporters can be critical of getting JDG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 The latest update from the CBC (from Vijay, who's actually at the Gold Cup) is that Julian is still leaning towards Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Free kick Afterall I cant see how any supporters can be critical of getting JDG. Yes but paying that much money for him would be ridiculous. He is a decent, ie average La Liga player. For 7 million they could get someone who would be a household name and if they choose properly could dominate the league. I understand they would have to pay him more than a European team would offer but that is over double what he is worth. I personally doubt the accuracy of this figure though or possibly it is 7 million for the rest of this year and next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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