El Hombre Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola I've already posted about this issue a few months ago but I'm wondering who are the Canadians who were good enough for MLS but weren't given a fair chance by TFC? I can't name one Canadian player who played at TFC who really made a case for himself elsewhere...not even Pozniak. It's unfortunate but it seems that players don't seem to recover well after being let go from TFC. I'm not sure what it is, but I don't think you can put it down to skill alone. What I concentrate on is how they do while with TFC. I think Pozniak, Rosenlund, and Hemming could all still be very useful players for TFC as they did alright when they were there. With respect to the last two, I think maybe giving them a raise from the $17,700 they were making (seriously!) would've convinced them to stay and wouldn't have broken the bank. I even think Lombardo could've been a decent depth player for TFC last year however he'd find himself pretty far down on the depth chart this year. Also, after BBTB mentioned the salary cap structure, I did a little research on the 2007 squad. There were 16 Canadians paid by TFC and 11 internationals. The total wage bill was $2,653,987.50. Of this, even though Canadians counted as 59.2% of the roster, they made up only 29.8% of the total wage bill. While the internationals (40.8% of the roster) made up 70.2% of the wage bill. Maybe after the end of the 2007 season, shed some of the huge underperforming international contracts like Welsh ($204,750.00) and Samuel ($115,000.00) and give the kids who performed adequately a wage that won't make them envy the cashiers at McDonald's, it wouldn't take much. Cut some of the rest of the underperformers and you'd still have money left over for new signings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Marc PS - Nothing personal Rudi, just strongly disgaree with you on this topic. That's cool, no offence taken. I agree that TFC deserves criticism on a lot of things, but I think this topic gets overblown over here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 The notion that Mo "hates" or "hated" Canadians is indeed absurd. Maybe he didn't rated them, maybe he wasn't fair to some of them, but saying he "hates" Canadians is simplifying a complex issue to an extreme. TFC gave the chance to many Canadians to show their worth (Reda, Braz, Sutton, Pozniak, Hemming, Rosenlund, Kenny S., Srdjan, Lombardo) that probably wouldn't have had a chance elsewhere in the league. It was up to them to prove they were good enough. What I expect from TFC is to give those kind of chances to some deserving Canadians players. From there, it's up to the players and I don't feel like many of them were treated incorrectly by the coaching staff because they were Canadians... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre It's unfortunate but it seems that players don't seem to recover well after being let go from TFC. I'm not sure what it is, but I don't think you can put it down to skill alone. What I concentrate on is how they do while with TFC. I think Pozniak, Rosenlund, and Hemming could all still be very useful players for TFC as they did alright when they were there. With respect to the last two, I think maybe giving them a raise from the $17,700 they were making (seriously!) would've convinced them to stay and wouldn't have broken the bank. I even think Lombardo could've been a decent depth player for TFC last year however he'd find himself pretty far down on the depth chart this year. Also, after BBTB mentioned the salary cap structure, I did a little research on the 2007 squad. There were 16 Canadians paid by TFC and 11 internationals. The total wage bill was $2,653,987.50. Of this, even though Canadians counted as 59.2% of the roster, they made up only 29.8% of the total wage bill. While the internationals (40.8% of the roster) made up 70.2% of the wage bill. Maybe after the end of the 2007 season, shed some of the huge underperforming international contracts like Welsh ($204,750.00) and Samuel ($115,000.00) and give the kids who performed adequately a wage that won't make them envy the cashiers at McDonald's, it wouldn't take much. Cut some of the rest of the underperformers and you'd still have money left over for new signings. Fair enough, but do you really think Hemming and Rosenlund were good enough to get constant minutes in MLS? I think they would be better served by playing in the USL as starters (getting better $$$) for their development instead of playing with TFC. They both did well with TFC but I don't think they proved they were much more than fringe players at that level. I do agree that the gap in salary between some players and the lowly paid is kind of annoying and certainly could be better dealt with by Mo but it doesn't really change the point about the quality of those Canadians players. If you look at this year squad, I don't think any of the guys I've named would make the starting 11 at TFC or would be consider among the top 18 players at TFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre Also, after BBTB mentioned the salary cap structure, I did a little research on the 2007 squad. Did it cross your mind that I might have had players currently in Europe in mind? A player with an EU passport like Josh Wagenaar is not as likely to be willing to provide depth to the roster by signing for close to the league minimum as an American NCAA grad like Brian Edwards because he has higher salary expectations than that and the ability to look elsewhere to get them met. Hence why attempts to get him in as a backup to Greg Sutton fell through and Edwards wound up on the roster instead at the start of 2008. Wagenaar isn't playing at a higher level than MLS (Andy Welsh is a teammate!) the key difference is that he's at a club where he can get more money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola Fair enough, but do you really think Hemming and Rosenlund were good enough to get constant minutes in MLS</u>? I think they would be better served by playing in the USL as starters (getting better $$$) for their development instead of playing with TFC. Constant minutes is not the point. As I tried to say elsewhere, depth is just as important as having a strong starting 11, moreso in a league like MLS that often has players missing for international duty. Guys like Hemming, Rosenlund and Pozniak are very valuable because they can get slotted in and do a job when required. Also, you don't have to break the bank to keep them around, just pay them more than $17K. I bet both would've stuck around TFC for $50-$60K. And now, when you look at TFC they have very few options for midfield and defence coming off the bench. For whatever reason, TFC has shat the bed through July and August for their first two seasons. Not sure if that's going to happen again this year, but if it does, would it not be beneficial to have decent subs that can come in and shake up the starting lineup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyola Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 How many MLS teams would be ready to pay Hemming or Rosenlund 50 or 60 K? The fact that Hemming is now in the USL and Rosenlund still without a pro club makes me believe not many would've paid that much money for players of that caliber. It would be unfair to ask TFC to blame TFC for this. If the players aren't good enough, TFC doesn't have to signed them just because they are Canadians. That being said, your point about how the money is divided between the players is a pretty good one but I just don't think players of Hemming caliber should be the benificiary of that much money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola How many MLS teams would be ready to pay Hemming or Rosenlund 50 or 60 K? The fact that Hemming is now in the USL and Rosenlund still without a pro club makes me believe not many would've paid that much money for players of that caliber. An important point that you are missing is that both of them would be internationals with other MLS teams and not domestics. That's a very important distinction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by loyola How many MLS teams would be ready to pay Hemming or Rosenlund 50 or 60 K? None...neither is a consistent MLS contributor. Not sure why Rosenlund hasn't caught on in USL but possibly he's just not interested enough or committed enough. Also, anyone who thinks Lombardo would be a good depth player for a team that believes it is an MLS playoff contender is simply wrong. He's simply not good enough. His technique is mediocre. He's not particularly fast. He's adequately strong but not exactly built to be a prototypical target man. On his best day, he is a USL player, which is still good but he's not good enough for this level and I'm not sold on the idea that he's good enough to be a consistent USL contributor either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre An important point that you are missing is that both of them would be internationals with other MLS teams and not domestics. That's a very important distinction. that hasn't stopped Harmse from going to Chivas or Hainault from going to Houston, or Ribiero going to San Jose or Johnson going to Salt Lake or Jakovic going to DC. IF a team in MLS believed these players could contribute and possibly start, their international status would not be an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gian-Luca Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr None...neither is a consistent MLS contributor. Neither has had much of a chance to be. Though I'm not sure that 50 or 60 K is the right figure to ask, given that there is quite a bit of room between 17k and 60K. What, for example, is Hemming making as the top midfielder for one of the top teams in the USL? Marco Velez hasn't been a consistent MLS contributor (well, he's been consistently poor) but he still has a job and is making that kind of dough IIRC and I'd say Rosenlund & Hemming would have been more worthy of that kind of dough than Velez is. On the other hand you've got a player like Ribeiro deemed unworthy of a starting job in the USL but walks into a starting position for an American MLS team, mainly because the coach likes him. And sometimes that's all it takes to be worthy of MLS - doesn't mean that any one coach is inherently right or wrong about who is good enough and who is not. The whole argument has nothing to do with where De Guzman is going by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 ^ Ribiero was a player that needed to get out of Montreal. He was in too much of a comfort zone, not working hard enough, etc. etc... He has the talent to be an MLS player (according to several people who are far more qualified to make that assessment than I am) but he wasn't making the most of his ability. Sometimes players shine at home and sometimes players get too comfortable. Neither Hemming nor Rosenlund got a fair chance to show what they could do...you're right about that. However, as I understand it, neither really blew anyone away consistently in training to win a spot on the team either. The fact they were buried on development deals likely made it easier for the team to not play them BTW, my JDG comments were intended to bug BBTB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr that hasn't stopped Harmse from going to Chivas or Hainault from going to Houston, or Ribiero going to San Jose or Johnson going to Salt Lake or Jakovic going to DC. IF a team in MLS believed these players could contribute and possibly start, their international status would not be an issue. Are you serious? You don't see how a team would be more inclined to pick up a domestic depth player over having one take an international spot? This is how guys like Micheal Kraus (KC), Kurt Morsink (KC), Ross Schunk (Col), Wells Thompson (NE), Tino Nunez (RSL) etc... get senior contracts on their teams. As for Lombardo, I did qualify my statment as he would've been a decent depth player last year when TFC only had Dichio (every so often), Barrett, Ibrahim, and Ruiz (every so often) to play up front. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca The whole argument has nothing to do with where De Guzman is going by the way. Dammit. I figured someone was going to call me on that sooner or later. I guess I should get off this. I'll try to stop now. I find it enjoying to debate though. Maybe something more appropriate over drinks before a game I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurosawa1555362267 Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ^ Ribiero was a player that needed to get out of Montreal. He was in too much of a comfort zone, not working hard enough, etc. etc... He has the talent to be an MLS player (according to several people who are far more qualified to make that assessment than I am) but he wasn't making the most of his ability. Sometimes players shine at home and sometimes players get too comfortable. I think you got it wrong here, it's more like Ribeiro getting on the wrong side if Mtl Impact semi dictator Nick DeSantis. He was told work hard you will get your chance and he worked hard, he shined every time he was on the field but then Nick would bring someone else and give him Tonio's place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 ^ I'll take your word on it Kurosawa....I was just repeating some things that I was told about Ribiero and the stalling of his career with Montreal. I should have actually been more clear about that in my 1st post. At the end of the day, its good to see Ribiero in a situation where he gets to play. Hopefully he thrives under Yallop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 quote:Originally posted by El Hombre I specifically said that if MLS teams believe that a player can contribute and possibly start, their international status would not be an issue. My point being that if guys like Hemming and Rosenlund aren't getting a sniff in MLS, its because they're deemed to be nothing more than reserves at best by MLS teams. If that's the case, those players, at their respective ages, would be far better off attached to a team where they will get a chance to play as much as possible. I totally agree that US based teams are going to always go with American players to fill up the last couple of spots on their rosters and the DEV roster spots. That's obvious. What will be telling to me is if, as expected, MLS deems all north american players to be domestics, will players like Hemming, Rosenlund or even Lombardo for that matter get a sniff of a roster spot in MLS. I'd say Hemming maybe, Rosenlund less likely and Lombardo no chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackTheBlizzard Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 According to a poster called Batman on the RPB board (stands two rows behind me in 112 at TFC games and is not the kind of person who is likely to be winding people up) Gol TV is reporting that JDG is on the verge of signing for TFC. http://www.redpatchboys.ca/forums/showthread.php?t=14471&page=14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 ^ I'm still hearing that he is not signing with TFC. I checked again this morning and still loads of denials Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ag futbol Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr that hasn't stopped Harmse from going to Chivas or Hainault from going to Houston, or Ribiero going to San Jose or Johnson going to Salt Lake or Jakovic going to DC. IF a team in MLS believed these players could contribute and possibly start, their international status would not be an issue. Valid points. From my understanding other MLS teams don't have a crunch on their international spots like TFC does, so if they want to pick up a non-patriot it's less of an issue. The only arguement i can see left that there's un-used Canadian talent out there for TFC, would be somewhere at the youth level (always sketchy proposition), CSL standouts (they already appear to be open to this judging by the amount of tryouts), or in bringing back guys like toussaint ricketts, Ryan Gyaki, or Ornoch who seem to like their odds in europe better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrennanFan Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by VPjr ^ I'm still hearing that he is not signing with TFC. I checked again this morning and still loads of denials natural that he would continue to deny until he is officially signed, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
youllneverwalkalone Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 ^^It's also interesting that he is at Gold Cup without a contract when Edgar, for example, decided against coming. Obviously Jules is in a much more advanced stage of his career, but maybe there's something to this. And there is one thing that TFC could offer which no Spanish club could counter: a potential reunion with Jono. You never know... He did tell Max that he was leaning toward Spain though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone And there is one thing that TFC could offer which no Spanish club could counter: a potential reunion with Jono. You never know... He did tell Max that he was leaning toward Spain though. Ah....but what hasn't been widely reported is that there is quite a bit of interest in a healthy Jono from some pretty high profile clubs in Spain. While the brothers might not be suiting up for the same team, they might get to live in the same country, maybe only a couple of hours away from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VPjr Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 quote:Originally posted by BrennanFan natural that he would continue to deny until he is officially signed, no? absolutely...personally, i would do the same thing. We all know how TFC likes to keep things uber secret, even though they aren't all that successful at it. Maybe the DeGuzman camp are the ones perpetuating the rumours, especially if they are hoping to use such a lucrative offer to squeeze extra dollars out of the clubs Julian really wants to play for. Lets put it this way (because these rumours simply wont go away) on a scale of 1 to 10, I'd give it a 3 that he might sign. IF all the offers in Europe are for small money and lacking in guarantees, then maybe he would sacrifice the best years of his career and choose to slum it in MLS in exchange for big time financial security but I doubt it very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earlimus Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 I have to agree. No doubt he'll be a red one day in his career, but I doubt that he'll do it now, even for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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