Is the REVOLUTION ON? they call it CSF

[squid2]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

If you don’t think the NT is emphasized enough within the CFA document, give some ideas for improvement. He certainly left it open

It’s the same **** as the black t-shirt protest. We’ve got a slim majority of people who are actually showing leadership and about 100 arm chair QB’s telling everyone how wrong everything is.

good on ya ag....

There's never any leadership from the Vees

4 years I’ve been reading these boards and it’s been good for three things...

1)Moaning, bitching but doing next to nothing;

2)Sending Christmas cards; and

3)Good info about the MNT – which is funded by the CSA, which is funded by kiddie soccer and administered by people who are incompetent. And if I dare say, our chances for South Africa are in jeopardy if the decision makers don’t start making better and more timely decisions in supporting and resourcing the effort to secure a spot in South Africa.

Sack the CSA

Read the document the CSA didn’t want you to read:

http://www.canadiansoccerfederation.ca/D&T.pdf

The CSF has the CSA’s undivided attention now. At least give them credit for that.

The fact that the D&T document is now public changes everything. Expect the CSA's 2008-2012 DRAFT STRATEGIC FRAMEWORK document to change dramatically/significantly – countering the CSF as well as mirroring some of the CSF ideas.....you can almost smell the CSA's desperation now...

and keep an eye out for the OSA, ever see a national association get ambushed by a provincial association.... wait till you read their strategic documents.....it should be released some time this week.

And make sure you read some of the CSF's Supplementary documents.

I suspect they will be uploaded very soon.

fwiw, the CSF value the NT programs more than many of you want to credit them for, but then that takes the fun and value of moaning away.

[jpg75]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

My name calling? You need to flip back a couple of pages and see where you insulted me based on a quote that, although perhaps inaccurate in terms of when these lads came to France (I didn't realize they were so young) is not misleading on two counts:

1. The great players in France, regardless of origin, are trained at top level PROFESSIONAL academies that a couple of soccer mums can't draw up in powert point;

2. France has raped and pillaged Africa -their society, if not their football, bear clear evidence of this

I apologize for calling you a little French homocidal colonist twat. It was in the heat of the moment and I will not stab you with a bottle if we should meet in Montreal for WCQ. You can ask Voyageurs that have met me and I've only tried that a couple times and I've learned my lesson. There's not enough Voyageurs to be killing them off. Though I suspect that you have nothing to fear regardless as you do seem part of this group that would rather see your six year old get some better training than have the MNT qualify for the World Cup.

I apologize for calling you an ignorant putz, you are ceraintly not ignorant...ok, i kid, i kid, you're not a putz either.

Anyways, foreign French players conversation aside, the French do have a solid pro environment that works hand-in-hand with the Clairefontiane Academy. I think they compliment each other really well, since these kids need a clear path to the pros after their early teen training. The Americans might be learning from this now that we see more Bradenton kids being drafted almost immediately by MLS clubs...just so we're on the level, i want nothing more than to see the NT qualify for 2010. I am not waiting another 4,8,12 years of taking crap from closest wannabes and CONCACAF poofs on BigSoccer until Canada qualifies.

...and yeah, France greated over alot of Africa. I opted to not join the French military to avoid the risk of getting my balls shot off while stationed in North Africa. That and i consider myself Canadian, much moreso than French or English (my parents nationalities).

I hear it works best if the bottle is broken, that might have been the problem . Anyways thanks for deciding to not stab me with a bottle. You never know, someday i might be the guy hitting a Mexican fan over the head with a bar stool after you've taken a sucker punch. [:0]

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by kmacphee

VPjr,

Looks like your team is putting a great deal of time and effort into moving this forward.

There is one aspect I see lacking (abeit at this very early stage). I would like to see some type of priority placed on separating the Senior National teams from the "amateur" component of the national body.

What changes would you like to see in terms of National team Funding/Marketing/Training. How can we ensure that we make our National Teams a)Profitable and b)Enviable?

Great questions.

We believe that a proper organizational strucutre needs to be implementd and then have qualified professionals hired to lead the various departments itemized in our org chart. My experience in the private sector has always been that if an organization hires good people and gives them authority within a structured environment and an expectation of accountability, you have a good chance for success. Professionals need to be hired and given the authority to implement programs that will match the organizations goals. The CSA was told this years ago by Deloite & Touche. They chose to ignore it.

The members of the CSF steering committee sought to create a vision for a proper structure and a more positive operating philosophy. We do not feel it is our place to say "we must do this and this and that to accomplish this goal". That's precisely what the CSA board of directors does currently and most of us agree that they are wholly lacking in the necessary qualificatons to make those decisions, but that doesn't keep them from trying.

What we do know, based on our accumulated experiences in business and in soccer, is that any organization is only as good as the people that run them and the structure in place to guide these people. If you have good people but no structure, you have chaos and frustration. If you good structure and bad people, you many of the same problems. The CSA has a poor structure and the quality of people at the top of the organization is questionable (some good, some bad, some indifferent).

When it comes to any national team program (male or female), the goal is:

a) qualify for the highest level of competition possible (i.e. World Cups)

and

to give a good account for yourself when you compete at the highest level.

It would be the responsibility of a TD, national team coaches, Player development people, etc.. to ensure that Canada's national teams are competitive and good enough to compete at the highest level. It is the jobs of the marketing people to promote the team and create revenue streams.

If the teams are successful, it makes the marketing people's jobs easier and the funds will inevitably flow. Having a stable and professionally run organization will also create confidence with potential sponsors/partners that Canadian soccer is worth investing signficant money into. It might even convince potential investors to give another look at professional leagues (can't promise that unfortunately).

The current regime is viewed by the private sector (including some key major sponsors) as a wholly disfunctional organization. These sponsors can spend their money in lots of places. They don't need to give it to soccer if they feel that they are working with a poor organization that is not delivering value for the sponsorship dollars.

[youllneverwalkalone]

Dino, are you going to release a budget or cash flow projection of some kind?

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

Good to know you'll add background info soon VPjr. Sadly, first impressions can be a bitch, and that oversight is not helping for credibility, in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong.

no argument. First impressions are important. I hope our willingness to answer any and all questions alleviates some of the concerns created by this oversight

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by jpg75

I apologize for calling you an ignorant putz, you are ceraintly not ignorant...ok, i kid, i kid, you're not a putz either.

Thanks pal. That's all I wanted. Onward and upward.

[Mpenza]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

no argument. First impressions are important. I hope our willingness to answer any and all questions alleviates some of the concerns created by this oversight

I was looking at it from a "general public" point of view. I don't know anybody in the list, but I could manage to get the info if need be by coming here and asking questions. People in the general public who probably don't know the voyageurs will just ask themselves who these people in the list are and if they're qualified...

That's where the problem lies in my opinion. You might as well be a bunch of friends who decided to take over the world of Canadian Soccer after having one too many Molson Canadian, as far as the presentation of the people who contributed to the CSF is concerned. Not that you are or anything, but nothing says otherwise, sadly.

This is even more important when you're calling on the grassroots soccer community (who probably don't know the names in the list) to answer your call and contribute to the CSF.

But anyway, I think you got the point and we can't travel through time now can we?

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Dino, are you going to release a budget or cash flow projection of some kind?

Not in the short term. Medium Term possibly.

It has been discussed a couple of times in our meetings but realistically, our group needs to be expanded before that can be accomplished. We need to include at least 1 person with an accounting background that will work pro bono (remember, we are operating on no budget...everything is out of pocket thus far and the expenses are growing).

We are in discussions with some people about joining the committee to help us with that sort of thing, but, at best, any type of budget document we could produce with the information available would be a broad strokes style document. Unless you have access to the CSA's books, its tough to generate a detailed budget. I hope you understand.

Again, to reiterate a point I made earlier, the goal of the document is to paint the picture that what Canadian Soccer is so desperately lacking is a structure for success. We don't claim to be able to have all the answers but we have some ideas for how things can be done better.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

There's never any leadership from the Vees

Because this is a fan group, not a political organization. It's in the nature of fan groups to follow & support that which they are a fan of, which in this case are Canadian soccer teams and players. Complaining about a lack of leadership for political action in a fan group is about as relevant a criticism as complaining that there aren't that any good salmon farmers on this board.

quote:

4 years I’ve been reading these boards and it’s been good for three things...

1)Moaning, bitching but doing next to nothing;

Always got to love it when an anoynymous poster with an agenda comes on the board and sweepingly insults & belittles the efforts of the few fans that have actually made a point of visibly supporting soccer in this country. Well done. Thanks for the insult. That's such a persuasive way of going about things.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

Not in the short term. Medium Term possibly.

It has been discussed a couple of times in our meetings but realistically, our group needs to be expanded before that can be accomplished. We need to include at least 1 person with an accounting background that will work pro bono (remember, we are operating on no budget...everything is out of pocket thus far and the expenses are growing).

We are in discussions with some people about joining the committee to help us with that sort of thing, but, at best, any type of budget document we could produce with the information available would be a broad strokes style document. Unless you have access to the CSA's books, its tough to generate a detailed budget. I hope you understand.

Again, to reiterate a point I made earlier, the goal of the document is to paint the picture that what Canadian Soccer is so desperately lacking is a structure for success. We don't claim to be able to have all the answers but we have some ideas for how things can be done better.

If by pro bono, you mean free, we should chat later. I won't specify which professional designation I hold as I believe it's conduct unbecoming of a member to discuss stabbing people with bottles (broken or otherwise), but I do hold the good one.

I do understand that access to information is an obstacle. I was hoping that someone in the group would have a decent idea as to current sponsorship revenue of the CSA (probably disclosed in the financials) versus potential sponsorship revenue assuming there really is a lot of bad blood between corporate Canada and the Association.

Perhaps the clubs themselves would be able to provide some information as to potential profitability of MNT matches. I hope I'm not alone in noting that the current NT fixtures are not well marketed, with no merchandise, and no real sense of for profit enterprise at all.

I'd also like to see the potential cost savings of streamlining the registration process versus the cost of your national registry. Seems a bit pie-in-the-sky at this point.

Where does the Federations stand on fees? Are fees going to go down? Go up? Status quo?

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by Mpenza

I don't know anybody in the list

What about Bob?

[Richard]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

Is that what this is? Dino just suggested that it's a viable alternative to the CSA. Are you suggesting it's not Rich?

Not at all, but the CSF is not going to replace the CSA as Canada's FIFA endorsed national body anytime soon if ever. The CSF is looking to effect change and has produced an initial blueprint of what their end objective is. Now begins the lobbying to see it happen.

I would be interested to see just how many people are willing to put their money where their mouths are. If the CSF created a foundation to accept donations this might add considerable persuasive weight to their movement. The money could be designated to support our national teams.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

If you don’t think the NT is emphasized enough within the CFA document, give some ideas for improvement. He certainly left it open

It’s the same **** as the black t-shirt protest. We’ve got a slim majority of people who are actually showing leadership and about 100 arm chair QB’s telling everyone how wrong everything is.

But I thought that the black t-shirt protest was about the dissarray at the national association, the effect that it would have on the national teams, the results of the national teams etc. do you see a common theme? its the national teams! I was not aware that the black shirt protest had anything to do with grass roots game. the only concern of anyone of us who goes to the stadium and follows on the ( in regards to the grass root ) is how it affects the talent of the agmes taht we will see at the senior level.

if we were to turn this forum into an orientation about issues relation to youth soccer, 75% would leave. Its a supporter forum.

[Stephen LaRose]

quote:Originally posted by redhat

Respectfully, as much as you are entitled to your opinion ...

What the heck are you doing on a CANADIAN SOCCER SUPPORTERS' FORUM?

Probably the same thing I was doing talking about the Saskatchewan Roughriders on a Rider fan forum when Al Ford was GM -- when the team stank like rotting yak carcasses. Praying to the Gods of Sport that those running the show (in this case, Canadian soccer) would one day see reason. Or failing that, walk into a ruaway train.

[Stephen LaRose]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

Not at all, but the CSF is not going to replace the CSA as Canada's FIFA endorsed national body anytime soon if ever. The CSF is looking to effect change and has produced an initial blueprint of what their end objective is. Now begins the lobbying to see it happen.

I would be interested to see just how many people are willing to put their money where their mouths are. If the CSF created a foundation to accept donations this might add considerable persuasive weight to their movement. The money could be designated to support our national teams.

The way I see it, the CSA funds its national team programs from the money it gets from youth soccer programs. There's squat for promotional money that the men's and women's NTs generate. Also, if the CSF comes along and becomes the Canadian youth soccer federation, either parents are going to pay twice to two organizations, or there's going to be a bloody, messy showdown between the two groups.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by squid2

good on ya ag....

There's never any leadership from the Vees

4 years I’ve been reading these boards and it’s been good for three things...

1)Moaning, bitching but doing next to nothing;

2)Sending Christmas cards; and

3)Good info about the MNT – which is funded by the CSA, which is funded by kiddie soccer and administered by people who are incompetent. And if I dare say, our chances for South Africa are in jeopardy if the decision makers don’t start making better and more timely decisions in supporting and resourcing the effort to secure a spot in South Africa.

Sack the CSA

Read the document the CSA didn’t want you to read:

http://www.canadiansoccerfederation.ca/D&T.pdf

The CSF has the CSA’s undivided attention now. At least give them credit for that.

The fact that the D&T document is now public changes everything. Expect the CSA's 2008-2012 DRAFT STRATEGIC FRAMEWORK document to change dramatically/significantly – countering the CSF as well as mirroring some of the CSF ideas.....you can almost smell the CSA's desperation now...

and keep an eye out for the OSA, ever see a national association get ambushed by a provincial association.... wait till you read their strategic documents.....it should be released some time this week.

And make sure you read some of the CSF's Supplementary documents.

I suspect they will be uploaded very soon.

fwiw, the CSF value the NT programs more than many of you want to credit them for, but then that takes the fun and value of moaning away.

You are forgetting what this forum is. This is a supporters forum. Check the title. Its for sports fans.

I do not coach at the youth level, nor am I involved in any way with the youth game. We are not interested in supporting the individual agenda of one or two people if it has no bearing on the national teams, results, etc or anything that affects our emotional attachment to colours and the men who wear those colour. I dont care about youth soccer and their complaints about what the national body is not doing for them since it has no impact me. I only care about them to the extent that the talent they produce because it ultimately impacts the national teams. What i do know is that, in the absence of a pro game and its youth academies, there is no vested interest at the youth game in developing talent. I also strongly suspect that when you hear about how so and so association or coach cares about the NT's, they are really just paying lip service.

I have asked this question many times on this forum: Why is the harshest complainers about the CSA and those who have the most to say about the grassroot game, have very little to say in topic regarding big games, WCQ's, WC games, results, performnces, players, TFC etc etc.

[ag futbol]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

But I thought that the black t-shirt protest was about the dissarray at the national association, the effect that it would have on the national teams, the results of the national teams etc. do you see a common theme? its the national teams! I was not aware that the black shirt protest had anything to do with grass roots game. the only concern of anyone of us who goes to the stadium and follows on the ( in regards to the grass root ) is how it affects the talent of the agmes taht we will see at the senior level.

if we were to turn this forum into an orientation about issues relation to youth soccer, 75% would leave. Its a supporter forum.

Whatever the CSF does is going to affect things at the NT level, so i don't see why it's so much of a stretch that we have a topic on this. If you don't see enough focus on the NT in the document, give some suggestions. I don't think we have to worry about the V's board degrading into some kind of policy wonk forum relating to minor soccer.

Anyway my point was that there is lots of talk (myself included in that category) and few people of action. The people who are actually doing something deserve some credit and respect. Some of the critisms I've read are just completely disrespectful of what people like vpjr are trying to accomplish. Thus far, the process they are going through seems relatively open and available for everyone.

Seeing this written off as "just another CSA" in some cases, is quite disapoiting.

[The Ref]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

Anyway my point was that there is lots of talk (myself included in that category) and few people of action. The people who are actually doing something deserve some credit and respect. Some of the critisms I've read are just completely disrespectful of what people like vpjr are trying to accomplish. Thus far, the process they are going through seems relatively open and available for everyone.

Seeing this written off as "just another CSA" in some cases, is quite disapoiting.

Well said ag-futbol, exactly my point.

[Free kick]

quote:Originally posted by ag futbol

Whatever the CSF does is going to affect things at the NT level, so i don't see why it's so much of a stretch that we have a topic on this. If you don't see enough focus on the NT in the document, give some suggestions. I don't think we have to worry about the V's board degrading into some kind of policy wonk forum relating to minor soccer.

Anyway my point was that there is lots of talk (myself included in that category) and few people of action. The people who are actually doing something deserve some credit and respect. Some of the criticisms I've read are just completely disrespectful of what people like vpjr are trying to accomplish. Thus far, the process they are going through seems relatively open and available for everyone.

Seeing this written off as "just another CSA" in some cases, is quite disapoiting.

You stated that: "Whatever the CSF does is going to affect things at the NT level", But I see no evidence of that. I agree that "we don't have to worry about the V's board degrading into some kind of policy wonk forum relating to minor soccer" but that is what I see here. And I see more criticism for the sake criticism rather than constructive ideas backed up by verifiable evidence. It talks in great deal about and vague statement like :

1) "unresponsive to the needs of players, coaches and administrators"

2) "failed to add sufficient value to their membership in order to justify the significant (and growing) registration “taxes” that they extract"

3) And my favourite "The time has come for a new National Governing Body for soccer in Canada, possessing a vision, a mission and a mandate to restructure the way the sport is governed and administered in order to meet the challenges of the 21st century and to move soccer forward with a greater sense of optimism and vibrancy."

What should the vision, mission and mandate be? and what are the challenges of the 21st century?

What I saw instead from reading between the lines in all that is that they don't want to give anymore $$$ to the CSA and think that the grassroots should keep it for themselves. It always comes down to $$$ doesn't it? If anyone cared about the NT, they would also worry about funding.

In regards to talk no action, yeah some action and organization can helpful and an improvement here at the V's. But only if its done along the lines of what, say, U-sector does. Thats what a supporters group is! namely:

1- Organize section at games

2- social outings

3- TIFO

4- discuss and argue over the games, players, tactics, coaching

5- Organize chants

Sure, often we inevitable delve into the organization aspect and teh grassroot and even criticism of the CSA. But thats done only through the prism of a supporters group.

Need I remind some again what it says at the top of this page:

The Voyageurs: Canadian Soccer Supporters

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by youllneverwalkalone

If by pro bono, you mean free, we should chat later. I won't specify which professional designation I hold as I believe it's conduct unbecoming of a member to discuss stabbing people with bottles (broken or otherwise), but I do hold the good one.

I do understand that access to information is an obstacle. I was hoping that someone in the group would have a decent idea as to current sponsorship revenue of the CSA (probably disclosed in the financials) versus potential sponsorship revenue assuming there really is a lot of bad blood between corporate Canada and the Association.

Perhaps the clubs themselves would be able to provide some information as to potential profitability of MNT matches. I hope I'm not alone in noting that the current NT fixtures are not well marketed, with no merchandise, and no real sense of for profit enterprise at all.

I'd also like to see the potential cost savings of streamlining the registration process versus the cost of your national registry. Seems a bit pie-in-the-sky at this point.

Where does the Federations stand on fees? Are fees going to go down? Go up? Status quo?

By Pro-Bono, yes I mean free. Of course, it would not surprise us if professionals like accountants and lawyers are not willing to dedicate much time at this point but if you want to help out in some capacity as we move this forward, it's appreciated 100%.

I have shown the CSA's 2006 audited financials to my CA. In short, he was unimpressed. There is very little that can be analyzed from their financials beyond the obvious. Compared to the financials put out by a much smaller association (Rugby Canada for one) it is a piss poor attempt at accountability to the membership. However, it is useful enough for some of our purposes.

It's harder to get audited financials from the provinces, territories and the districts. As Bill Ault mentioned in an article on canada kicks, it appears that only a minority of those associations put out such data for public consumption.

We do have some idea of how much clubs pay out to the various associations per player, which is a useful piece of info.

the CSA looks at NT matches as money losers. Montagliani and Maestracci told that to us flat out. They said it is far more cost effective to play away games, which is why they schedule so few friendlis at Canada. I don't claim to know the financial details of hosting a friendly so I wont disagree at this point but I believe that it can be a profitable or break even proposition but it won't happen overnight. it would have to be a priority.

As for fees, our position is that fees must go down and be reinvested by the clubs into the enhancement of soccer services in their communities but the time frame for doing so is impossible to commit to at this time without a thorough examinations of the costs. I can assure you that eliminating the incredible levels of redundancy in the system will save money. I hear the OSA will be releasing a strategic plan of their own later this week and they propose doing away with almost all districts and replacing them with regional bodies (6 of them if I am not mistaken). That is alot better from a cost-effectiveness standpoint but then it makes me wonder why you need an OSA at all. Why cant the national body oversee regional divisions spread across the country? Why the need for a further intermediary?

No doubt that there is more work to do BUT if we waited until we had every possible duck in a row, it's hard to say when we would make any kind of presentation.

As we've said, this is a vision document and more needs to be added to it as we move forward. if you want to help, email me and we can chat.

[VPjr]

quote:Originally posted by Free kick

I have asked this question many times on this forum: Why is the harshest complainers about the CSA and those who have the most to say about the grassroot game, have very little to say in topic regarding big games, WCQ's, WC games, results, performnces, players, TFC etc etc.

Last I checked, I am a pretty regular poster on all things related to the actual playing of games. I think that comment is unfair to me personally. I am doing the work I am doing because i care about ALL levels of the game of soccer, from rec to national teams. To think that each is mututally exclusive is foolish, frankly. They are all connected.

As for some of your other comments, I suggest you find a minute or two to talk to rep coach in your community. You might be shocked to find that they actually are soccer fans, not a bunch of petty whiners who resent funding national team games

[VPjr]

Free Kick, you are entitled to your wildly wrong viewpoint.

come to the meeting (you came to the last one I think). Participate, ask questions....you will likely be very surprised.

You can be a fan of the NT's and still care about the system as a whole.

[fan]

As the posters above prove my point you will be very lucky to get out of that meeting without having to endure the hangover wrath the CSA has created for our fans. Even though most of these people are way too late and will certainly not contribute in any real meaningful way they represent the attitude of the majority.

My idea although it was done for humour originally of the CSO and CSO beer is a direct root that requires no approval and only a referendum and polls that can be handled over a website to determine where and how much each dollar is spent.

The CSA are ludicrously out of date in the technology field and a major amount of their work could be expedited, handled and improved by technology and web applications.

Allowing people to contribute and major names to sponsor a beer that democratically spends its revenue directly and solely on the CMNT player and player development. That utilizes web applications to administer, community build, schedule and pay for the organization is a model that you (CSF) would be well advised to adopt. Feel free to do so. Time is very short and the less approval and logistics you need to implement your plan the better. Take it one small step at a time and let the fans decide how much and exactly what they will contribute and suppport about your organization.

You have to be more direct and try to accomplish less or your going down.

Look, if you really want to take control of the CSA, show the fans and FIFA you have 10 people who are capable of taking over the reigns of the CSA demonstrate and explain in ten steps why and why your people are capable and ten points that make these people superior and ask for a vote .

My post tells you the mood and you cant ignore it and you have to demonstrate clearly and precisely what you are going to do and why your better.

As an example:

you said above

"CSA looks at NT matches as money losers. Montagliani and Maestracci told that to us flat out. They said it is far more cost effective to play away games, which is why they schedule so few friendlis at Canada. I don't claim to know the financial details of hosting a friendly so I wont disagree at this point but I believe that it can be a profitable or break even proposition but it won't happen overnight. it would have to be a priority."

The CSA schedules away games because they are incompetent as business people and lazy as representatives. They dont make any money at home games because they dont know how. Tell the Canadian soccer fan how you would make money at a home game and who is backing you . Dont bother with the huge logistical structure you have no chance of replacing the CSA and even if you do your just telling the fans you are going to change the acronym (CSF) and build a different flow chart.

[youllneverwalkalone]

quote:Originally posted by VPjr

I have shown the CSA's 2006 audited financials to my CA. In short, he was unimpressed. There is very little that can be analyzed from their financials beyond the obvious. Compared to the financials put out by a much smaller association (Rugby Canada for one) it is a piss poor attempt at accountability to the membership. However, it is useful enough for some of our purposes.

Now that you mention it, I think I have seen their 2006 financials, posted here, and I do recall that they were very simplistic, not taking advantage of fund accounting and the potential to provide additional information in this way -as many NPOs do. Of course it might have been their auditors who have influenced the presentation, as "useful" NPO statements can be a huge pain in the ass to draft. They should disclose revenue by major source though. I'll have a look if I can find them.

What you revolutionaries really need to do is get a copy of their general ledger. That would be fun. Maybe if your nicer to Gian-Luca or An Observer, they could sue it out of them. =)

[Trillium]

Free Kick...

quote:

Need I remind some again what it says at the top of this page:

The Voyageurs: Canadian Soccer Supporters

So Free Kick .. Canadian Soccer Supporters does not include your local clubs ?

Just support the TFC and others but not the local club in Red Deer or Sudbury...?

Listen .. soccer begins at the local level .the local amateur level, players start young and grow up... some aspire to a higher level.

The CSA has failed for many years in terms of structuring football in the country for success, its used the local non-professional players as cash cow..no matter the age for years.

Its time the CSA were reformed or replaced ..soccer in this country needs a revolution and change in methods and focus.

CSF is one group working to make change... the Black shirt protest was another... when the next failure of MNT or the CSA rises another group of persons will wake up and smell the roses... it takes time, but the changes are coming, be evolution or revolution the game is to big and strong .. as a game to let the current failure continue.

It would be good Free Kick if you did a little more in depth ... understanding of game here in this country and indeed at club level in others ..where many a fan.. gets involved in funding and overturning bad owners or Directors of pro clubs... in this country its time to overturn the bad operators at the CSA.

Join the revolotion Free Kick..it will do you good.