MLS ancmnt re: Toronto expansion Oct 11+, Stadium

[Elias]

I think the Argos do have the right to complain, no matter what they pulled on the CSA.

Mayor Miller told them there was no money. And the Argos were putting up more than double what MLSE is ($20 compared to $8-million right?). So what's the difference now?

[Richard]

The difference is U of T pulled the plug.

[dbailey62]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

The difference is U of T pulled the plug.

If the Argos had stuck with thie project and not chased the carrot that Rogers held in front of their noses, they could have still been involved.

It was their error, nobody elses.

db

[Canuck Oranje]

A point that many seem to be ignoring is that the city will own the stadium. The Feds are supporting the development of a City project not an MLSE project. And MLSE is providing private support for a public facility to help in getting it built so that MLSE can proceed with a private business project of its own (MLS franchise).

Toronto wants to be able to participate in the WYC in 2007 and wants to develop a facility for that event. In essense, that is no different than developing facilities for the Olympics. The fact that the city was able to find a private sector partner to participate and professionally manage the facility should be seen as a positive rather than a negative. The MLS project by MLSE should be viewed as simply a private project that would benefit from the development of a public stadium.

I suspect the City will also have ability to subsidize desired events to take place in the stadium as it can already do in any of its parks and arenas. As every other city across the country does with its own facilities.

[RS]

These are very good points, CO, and ones that most of the anti-Toronto stadium brigade avoid.

MLSE's involvement simply ensures that the stadium built for the WYC will not turn into a white elephant after that tournament is done.

[Cheeta]

Ah yes, but the rub is in the fine print isn't it? MLSE is old hat at this sort of thing and the CSA has shown when it comes to swimming in the ocean with Big Fish they're in over their heads. The C of T's lawyers may be a saving grace in all this.

P.S. Forgot to add I think MLSE being involved, or more appropriately MLSE's money, is overall a good thing. Did I sound like the CSA there? Maybe all that MLSE green and the potential it can bring gets to putting blinders on some people.

[RealGooner]

Tomorrow is the big day. Keep those Fingers crossed.

[Richard]

I really don't understand all the anti-MLSE sentiments being expressed. Without them this whole project would be dead in the water, no stadium and certainly no MLS team in the foreseeable future. Count your blessings guys.

[DoyleG]

quote:Originally posted by Richard

I really don't understand all the anti-MLSE sentiments being expressed. Without them this whole project would be dead in the water, no stadium and certainly no MLS team in the foreseeable future. Count your blessings guys.

Another example of having the head up the arse.

[Bill Ault]

From todays Globe -

Council set to Approve Stadium Deal

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051026/SOCCER26/TPSports/Other

This article claims it is a rubber stamp kind of thing but I'll believe it when I see it.

[RS]

quote:Originally posted by DoyleG

Another example of having the head up the arse.

With such fine debating skills, you should have been a lawyer or a politician. [8)]

[Massive Attack]

Oh ma god! This actually appeard in a Toronto paper. I'm shocked! Shocked!!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soccer deal is a good one

Despite criticism, a new stadium for Toronto will be a winner

By KEN FIDLIN -- Toronto Sun

When public officials start talking about sports facilities, history tells us to be skeptical. Suspicious, even.

The old "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" rule applies.

What happens, then, when you fool me 10 times? Or 20, as politicians have done over the generations?

So, if nothing else, the great stadium debate of 2005 already has revealed plenty of agnostics among us and that's healthy. These kinds of deals need more scrutiny, not less.

Having said that, at some point this week, we imagine city council is going to vote overwhelmingly to put its stamp of approval on a $72.8-million Exhibition Place stadium deal that will finally give this city's soccer afficionados a first-class facility and a professional soccer team to play in it.

And, as long as we can believe the deal as it has been represented, council will have done the right thing. Such a stadium is long overdue, though we wish the soccer community and that includes the Canadian Soccer Association, could have played a larger financial role in the proceedings.

As it stands right now, a larger financial role is defined as a nickel, a dime, a quarter. Anything. The CSA purports to represent millions of soccer players and fans, yet when it comes to drumming up a little dough, they are both hopeless and helpless.

So, we are going to pay for this 20,000-seat stadium with public money but if anybody thinks this is the next SkyDome fiasco, then he hasn't read the fine print.

First of all, Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment is assuming responsibility for all construction cost over-runs and there is a real chance there will be over-runs. Once they get approval, construction will have to be maintained at a breathtaking pace to get the building ready for the start of the Major Soccer League season in April 2007, well ahead of time for the world under-20 championship later that summer. At best, MLSEL will have about 15 months to get the job done.

"We have assumed all the financial risk on construction," said MLSEL CEO Richard Peddie, "and, yes, we're tight for time. As far as we're concerned, everything should have happened yesterday."

Second, MLSEL is going to cover annual operating losses up to $250,000 and share equally with the city any losses beyond that. In addition to running the stadium, MLSEL will own and operate the Major League Soccer team but any losses incurred by the team will have no bearing on the profit or loss on stadium operations. The MLS team will pay rent commensurate with other teams in the league and well in line with those paid by major tenants in other stadiums.

Of course, MLSEL doesn't expect to lose money on the operation of the team, or the building.

"We're in this because we wanted the team," said Peddie. "We think Toronto is ready for a team like this. And we also believe we can put enough events in there to make the stadium an economic success, as well. We expect to be able to fill 100 dates."

The entire pitch will be enclosed, with seating all around, though only about 2,500 seats will be located in the end zones.

An important feature, perhaps a lookahead to the day a few years from now when the Argonauts want out of the Rogers Centre, is that the stadium will be constructed in a way that 10,000 seats could be added at a later date. It is entirely likely that, if the Argos ever come up for sale, MLSEL will be among the suitors.

During the 18 days of the annual Canadian National Exhibition, the stadium would be available for various events related to the Ex and, at other times when it is not in use by its regular tenants, a number of community and cultural events will gravitate to the stadium. You also can expect the new park to see plenty of international soccer friendlies, as well.

In the final analysis, it is hard to imagine such a place becoming a white elephant, simply because of its location in the midst of all the facilities that already exist at the CNE grounds.

So, all you skeptics, take your best shot. The ghosts of stadia past surely have earned all your suspicions. This time, though, the deal looks clean.

---

THE COST OF A SOCCER STADIUM

A look at the proposed soccer stadium at the CNE:

- Cost: $72.8 million

- Financial breakdown:

- Federal government $27 million

- Province of Ontario $8 million

- City of Toronto $19.8 million (cash, land)

- Maple Leaf Sports and Ent. $8 million

- Naming rights: $10 million (to be sold by MLSEL)

- Ownership: City of Toronto

- Management: MLSEL (20-year contract)

- Target date: Spring 2007

- Construction cost overruns: MLSEL

- Profit: Shared equally between city and MLSEL

- Losses: MLSEL responsible for first $250,000, annually. City and MLSE share equally all losses beyond that.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Canada/2005/10/26/1279149-sun.html

[john tv]

I told you so,he is digging deep down to the roots,the Maple Leaf emblem.The journalist hooligan Jerkins makes me smile and I should thank him for proving my point I seem to have tried to make for years.I think instead of firing of e-mails to the politiciamns we also shoul;d sent a cc. to jerkins and the sportseditor.Or just an e-mail to the sports department.It is sickening to read this stuff,I suspected he would try to get an angle and there it is,we are using the Maple Leaf,we are the ones that cheer for the other team, we are the ones that use the tax loop holes.Thanks jerk you prooved my point and maybe I may get some converts on this board.It's funny reading this Blizzard stuff and then seeing the North York Rockets logo.This also brings back some memories as a former P.R director for that team.

[Gian-Luca]

quote: DAVE PERKINS

Rather than wait two years and do a told-you-so rant, better to get it on record again up-front and mention how the city is about to waste another $9.8 million of our money, at least, to again subsidize professional sports in Toronto.

The stadium, according to a report by the Policy and Finance Committee, also will become "home for Canada's international soccer teams.'' This will be interesting; years ago, they stopped playing important matches in Toronto because of the embarrassment caused by everyone cheering for the visiting team against Canada.

Anyone contacting Perkins might want to mention that women exist in this world. The report says "Canada's international soccer teams" - they never stopped playing women's matches in Toronto because of support for the other team, and when they briefly stopped playing qualifiers in Toronto it was because they sold 8000 tickets to Mexican fans living outside Canada while thousands of people coming to cheer on Canada were left outside the stadium unable to get in. I should know, unlike Perkins I was there. They resumed playing shortly afterwards with pro-Canada crowds happening for the next important matches, too bad they tore the stadium down.

As for the CSA, they probably don't have the catch to launch lawsuits against the Toronto Star & Perkins, but if I were them I'd seriously consider it after this article de-fames them. Sure there are arguments to be made about incomptency if people want to use that term, but what evidence is there that the CSA is a "wholly un-trustworthy" organization? That would suggest that they have been dealing in bad faith, have been acting deceitfully and so forth. Based upon what?

The good news is I suspect Perkins wrote this article because he knows it is likely going through.

[Gian-Luca]

quote:Originally posted by Bill Ault

From todays Globe -

Council set to Approve Stadium Deal

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051026/SOCCER26/TPSports/Other

This article claims it is a rubber stamp kind of thing but I'll believe it when I see it.

That article is date today but it says the vote is tomorrow. Perhaps it was written last night?

[Massive Attack]

Dave Jerkins email address isn't even available on the Stars website. I guess he was tired of all the hate mail.

[Guest Dave]

Well, the City Council chamber's public gallery looks half-empty. Not sure if this is a good or a bad sign.

[Metro]

Rogers Cable 10 will televise the proceedings live today in the Toronto area for all those interested.

[Guest Dave]

and here's the link for those outside Toronto

http://www.rogerstelevision.com/option.asp?lid=16&rid=16&tid=10754

[Guest Dave]

Playing the National Anthem now... this almost feels like watching a game :-)

[john tv]

Apparently Jerkins is not the only media guy who is trying to stop soccer from getting a firm foot hold in Toronto. I just recxeived an e-mail that suggested that Peter Mallett from the Globe is solliciting articles as to why this thing ,the building of this stadium should be stopped.I have not confirmed this and if anyone knows anything about this please let us know.

[Gian-Luca]

As for the Fidlin article, you see what can happen when people go in un-biased and actually get their facts straight, instead of being selective?

[Gian-Luca]

Peter Mallett is a soccer fan, I've even played soccer with him myself, as have a bunch of the Toronto Ultras, and his article thus far have all been fair (and he's written plenty of them on the stadium, not a sign of someone who doesn't want to see it happen). I doubt that is true.

[argh1]

Well, I hope this thing finally gets done.

As far as MLS goes, yes I'd rather see a Canadian League. But if MLS treats Canadian players as non imports through out the league ....then I guess alot of good can come out of this.

Finally maybe the CSA can move on. Two and a half years of concentrating on one project with total tunnel vision. I don't know whether to applaud their determination or jeer their stubbornness.[]

[Guest Dave]

You can expect Councillor Mike Del Grande to oppose the stadium.

It seems he wishes to comment on it...