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MLS ancmnt re: Toronto expansion Oct 11+, Stadium


jeffymac1971

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I know they voted on it today, but Zac's post seem to indicate that the vote has already happened (given that its after 6pm in Toront I expect that as well)& was passed in favour.

No G-L he said 'city council' had voted for it today which is incorrect. We don't want incorrect rumours doing the rounds here.

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Well Planning & Finance passed the plan 8-1. So its now up to the 44 wise men and women next Wednesday. I wonder who opposed the plan today? I wonder if it was that Maria Augmieri Councilwoman who raised the stink when they wanted to put the stadium in her ward at Downsview.....

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I know that David Miller is very much in favour and his interest in soccer go way back. I remember when I visited him and proposed that he play in a celebrity game at the Robbie.He wanted to very much but bought a page in the Robbie program and did ever since 1997.He attended several media soccer conferences and I am sure that he has done his home work on our behalf.I can't really think of any serious obstacle,but just in case show that the interest is not only the CSA and MLSE but also the good guys.I also wonder if Rogers knowing the viewership on their channels has some inside information.I can just see that planning meeting were the audience guy stands there and proclaims how many games and how many viewewrs there REALLY are.The variuos ratio's and repeat interest.

I would love to be there but I am involved in a day long soccer planning session which cannot be postponed.So I hope that there are a bumch of petitions and if you can show up in a soccer shirt and be ready for the TV cameras.It would not be a bad idea to maybe halve a spokeman and maybe a media release should be issued to the media identifying our group. Is there not a banner somewhere.Even Lynx shirts may be a good idea since there was a mention of the Lynx playing there as well.Anyway a very historic day in Canadian soccer and a day that will be remebered for many years to come.

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Report from the Star below...names the councillor who voted no on the finance committee. I like Pantalone's last comment...it pretty much sums up my thinking. Whether you are for or against public funding of such stadium, why would any organisation say no to getting $62million by giving lest than 1/6 of the amount.

Committee approves stadium

PAUL MOLONEY

CITY HALL BUREAU

Over the objection of the city's own budget chief, a key city hall committee has endorsed investing $9.8 million in a pro soccer stadium to be operated by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd.

Councillor David Soknacki said he has problems asking city taxpayers to help the Maple Leafs' organization build the 20,000-seat stadium at Exhibition Place in a deal which commits the city to cover half of any operating losses over $250,000.

"My concerns again are whether we ought to be supporting professional sport, whether we ought to be participating in the losses," Soknacki said yesterday. "I don't think it's appropriate to share the losses."

Soknacki was the only member of council's policy and finance committee to vote against the deal, which has the enthusiastic support of Mayor David Miller and Deputy Mayor Joe Pantalone, chair of the city-owned Exhibition Place. City council will make a final decision at its meeting next week.

Pantalone chastised Soknacki for focusing on possible losses at the stadium, which would be home to a Maple Leaf-owned professional soccer team and host the 2007 world youth soccer championships. "I'd like to suggest that the chances of this stadium losing money is probably similar to there being an earthquake in Toronto in the next few years," said Pantalone, whose ward includes the waterfront park.

The city-owned site is valued at $10 million, while the construction costs are pegged at $62.8 million. Of that amount, the federal government is chipping in $27 million; provincial government $8 million; $9.8 million from the city; and $18 million from the Leafs.

"We're going to get a $63 million project," Pantalone said. "I wish somebody would come up to me and say, `Joe, give me $9.8 million, and I'll give you $63 million. If that's not a deal, I don't know what is.'"

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quote:Originally posted by An Observer

"I wish somebody would come up to me and say, `Joe, give me $9.8 million, and I'll give you $63 million. If that's not a deal, I don't know what is.'"

I dunno... I get e-mails from Nigeria like that all the time...

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quote:

Pantalone chastised Soknacki for focusing on possible losses at the stadium, which would be home to a Maple Leaf-owned professional soccer team and host the 2007 world youth soccer championships. "I'd like to suggest that the chances of this stadium losing money is probably similar to there being an earthquake in Toronto in the next few years," said Pantalone, whose ward includes the waterfront park.

The Olympics can no more lose money than a man can have a baby.

Jean Drapeau

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A little more balanced article from the Sun today, with mention of the usage of the stadium by others outside of pro teams, for a change.

Soccer Stadium On-Side

By ROB GRANATSTEIN, CITY HALL BUREAU

The $63-million soccer stadium planned for Exhibition Place cleared another hurdle yesterday, but the battle's not over.

Councillor Sylvia Watson questioned how the city could find $9.8 million for a soccer stadium when community centre projects city-wide are stalled.

"I'm very concerned we're spending a lot of money on what is private enterprise," she said, adding that Lamport Stadium is falling apart less than a kilometre away and there's no money for it to be fixed.

But Councillor Mark Grimes, who helped get the deal done, said while he understands the concerns of how quickly it got done, he thinks it's right for the city.

"I think downtown is where it's at," Grimes said after the city's executive committee voted 8-1 in favour of the project. "I'm 100% sure this is the place."

Grimes said it's good for the Ex and he's hopeful that in four years, when the Argos agreement with the Rogers Centre ends, football will come to the stadium, too.

The stadium, to be built next to the Food Building, will be operated by Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment and the city. MLSE will contribute $8 million in cash and advance $10 million in anticipation of naming rights. The company is also responsible for any cost overruns on construction, and the first $250,000 of losses. After that, any losses will be split evenly with the city.

"The chances of this stadium losing money are similar to an earthquake hitting Toronto in the next few years," said deputy mayor and Exhibition Place chairman Joe Pantalone.

"We're putting in $9.8 million and getting $63 million," he said. "If that's not a deal I don't know what is."

The stadium will be mainly used by community groups, especially in the winter, when it's under a bubble. MLSE will also be bringing a professional soccer expansion team to the stadium.

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quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

KEEP THE BLOODY ARGOS AWAY FROM THE STADIUM!!!!!!

At the Arena in Amsterdam, Ajax home turf they also play that bloody American Football as they call it. The Ajax guys hate it with a passion, screws up the field and it is not condusive to our game at all. I remeember the Birchmount stadium in Scarborough were we had the Robbie finals and the field was besides having these awfull lines also a variety of bumps and limited grass. This was after the previous season was over.

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I guess it comes down to the fineprint in the operating agreement (MLSE can really screw the city big time), but I can't see how they can say no to this.

It's a nice piece to the waterfront puzzle (if it's successful can lead to more development), it creates a downtown athletic facilty (of which there are no where near enough), there is a huge community component as I'm sure the deal will call for area soccer clubs and other sports to use it, especially in the winter.

The other thing, usually it is The Left, that is against projects like this. But since The Left controls City Hall, hopefully this will go through. There really hasn't been an organized attempt at stoping this.

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quote:Originally posted by john tv

At the Arena in Amsterdam, Ajax home turf they also play that bloody American Football as they call it. The Ajax guys hate it with a passion, screws up the field and it is not condusive to our game at all. I remeember the Birchmount stadium in Scarborough were we had the Robbie finals and the field was besides having these awfull lines also a variety of bumps and limited grass. This was after the previous season was over.

The NFL Europe Admirals play 4 home games a year. You're talking out of your ass.

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quote:Originally posted by Loud Mouth Soup

I think they have one wise man (Doug Holyday) and 43 ranting, screaming children who want to spend like they're swimming in cash.

...which in this case is a good thing.

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quote:Originally posted by RealGooner

I just spoke to the City clerk's office. The lady there told me that City Council will meet at 9:30 AM Wednesday October 26. The public can attend, but cannot make deputations on behalf of motions being voted on. HOWEVER, the public may submit letters which can be distributed to the councillors. I understand that if the stadium is approved by Policy and Finance Committee (Who are meeting to vote on this now), they will submit it for vote on Wednesday. I was informed that we may contact the secretaries of P&F on Monday to arrange for any letters to be submitted for distribution on wednesday.

Contact info for two secretaries for P&F:

Patsy Morris, 416-392-9151 pmorris@toronto.ca

Jeanette Gerrard, 416-392-6627 jgerrar@toronto.ca

Policy and Finance Committee

10th floor, West Tower, City Hall Fax: 416-392-1879

They can make arrangements to have any letters from the public distributed to the council on the morning of the vote.

Perhaps a letter can be submitted on behalf of Voyageurs posters in favour of the stadium?

I remember a while back, Rogers Community Channel 10 used to carry live coverage of City Council meetings every Wednesday. I don't think they do that anymore, however. City Council meetings are no longer televised, are they?

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Suddenly, the Argos are sniffing around. lol.

How ironic is this. The deal-breakers are suddenly intrigued and as far as I'm concerned they can find out about the deal (if it passes) when the rest of us do, by reading it in the fishwrap. Actually, I'm sure they didn't even think about it until the Sun mentioned it.

Crying the double blues

Stadium blues

Argos curious about deal made for soccer park

By PERRY LEFKO -- Toronto Sun

The owners of the Argonauts have a question for the City of Toronto: What's the deal with the latest Exhibition Stadium plans?

Howard Sokolowski said he and his partner, David Cynamon, are curious about the deal the city has struck with the the Canadian Soccer Association and Maple Leaf Sports & Entertainment Ltd., for a 20,000-seat stadium at Exhibition Place.

The Argos had gone to the City of Toronto, in particular Mayor David Miller, after Sokolowski and Cynamon purchased the team in 2003 about potentially building a 25,000-seat stadium at the Ex. A deal never materialized.

"I'm curious to hear what the deal points are (with the CSA/MLSEL project) and how they would have differed from ours," Sokolowski said yesterday. "In principle it's a good thing to have a stadium there. I just don't know the financial elements of the deal. I look forward to hearing them."

According to reports, the CSA and MLSEL plan to build a 20,000-seat stadium that will cost $62.8 million.

The overall financial breakdown will consist of $27 million from the federal government, $8 million from the province and the city contributing $9.8 million. MLSEL will add $8 million and provide another $10 million from the sale of the stadium's naming rights.

While MLSEL is slated to pay $250,000 for any operating shortfalls, the city/Exhibition Place board and MLSEL would share equally in funding any annual operating shortfalls or annual shortfalls in expenditures.

The Argos switched from the Ex project to a proposal at the University of Toronto's main campus along Bloor Street, but the project collapsed when the school opted out. The Argos then shifted their focus to York University's main campus, but cancelled their plans when they decided to stay at their current location after Rogers Communications bought the SkyDome and spent a considerable sum to upgrade the facility.

If the Ex project goes ahead, Sokolowski did not rule out the Argos moving to that location at some point. The Argos played at the Ex for almost 30 years before moving to their current location in 1989, back when the facility was known as the SkyDome.

The Argos are completing the first year of a 15-year lease, which has five-year options.

"We're very happy at the Rogers Centre," Sokolowski said. "They've made some necessary and wonderful improvements and I know Rogers are will be spending millions of dollars this coming off-season to improve it further. But I never rule anything out."

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Stadium's finances a concern

Proposed soccer venue short $2M

By DEAN McNULTY -- Toronto Sun

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Soccer/Ca...270810-sun.html

No matter how you do the math, a proposed 20,000-seat soccer stadium to be built on the CNE grounds still is nearly $2 million shy of its estimated $64-million construction cost.

And the starting price of stadiums, no matter how small, rarely bares any resemblance to its final tally.

The City of Toronto and Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd. -- owners of the Maple Leafs and the Raptors -- have agreed in principal to build the facility that will house an expansion Major League Soccer team owned by MLSEL and be home to the 2007 FIFA under-17 world championship.

City council approved a scheme this week that would see MLSEL ante up $18 million, the city $9.8 million, the province $8 million and the feds $27 million for the project.

According to the deal, the city would be the owner and landlord of the stadium, with MLSEL signing a long-term contract for its proposed soccer squad.

Construction of the stadium on the site of the Canadian Autosports Hall of Fame is scheduled to start in January, just enough time for completion by the 2007 season.

MLSEL has an Oct. 31 deadline to get approval for the stadium in order to get a MLS franchise.

But not everybody is happy that local taxpayers will have to bear the the brunt for almost $10 million of the stadium's building costs, plus a continuing contribution in annual operating costs.

At a meeting yesterday of the Canadian National Exhibition board of governors, concerned citizen Alan Kasperski spoke against the plan.

"This is plain and simple an example of taxpayers subsidizing professional sports," Kasperski said.

Kasperski claims that the city has no business entering into a deal that would benefit commercial operations like MLSEL.

"MLSEL built the Air Canada Centre at a cost of $250 million using all private money," he said. "So why can't those same people pay for their own soccer stadium?"

Kasperski said that there appears to be a rush to okay this deal so that MLSEL can get its MSL franchise in time for the 2007 season.

"Why can't they play in the Rogers Centre?" he said. "There are a number of MLS teams that currently share National Football League stadiums in their cities."

Kasperski's main beef is based on the fact that there are facilities owned by the city that would fit the bill for amateur soccer.

"Lamport Stadium only needs a re-fit that would lift it from an eyesore to a usable multi-sport facility that would seat 10,000 or more at much less cost than building a brand new stadium at CNE," Kasperski said.

Kasperski noted that a similar sized soccer stadium in Chicago started at $75 million US but ballooned to $95 million when completed.

MLSEL president Richard Peddie said the negotiations were difficult and he's not calling it done until it has full council approval, but he's convinced this stadium can make money for both sides.

"We're a business and we look for a rate of return," Peddie said.

Council's finance committee meets today to give its seal of approval to the deal.

-- with files from Rob Granatstein.

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quote:Originally posted by dbailey62

That was a very rash statement by Pantalone. I too thought of the Jean Drapeau comment you have quoted.

db

just a reminder that the olympic stadium parking lot cost was $24 million (1976 $$$) ...

that's almost what the feds/libs are ready to give to the EX stadium (2005 $$$) ...

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quote:Originally posted by Gian-Luca

I know they voted on it today, but Zac's post seem to indicate that the vote has already happened (given that its after 6pm in Toront I expect that as well)& was passed in favour.

Luca.. I heard that from another post. It wasn't concrete but I though someone might know something... so I posted it. [:o)]

I thought that was the "first hurdle." The city concil vote

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